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Silverwingwyvren

Death Penalty

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You talk about letting go of negative emotions, moving on and being a healthy person yet you have suicidal tendencies, depression and have isolated yourself from the society.. How does that work exactly ?

One can offer views and advice without having experienced the event in question. I can diagnose, treat and offer advice about a broken ankle having never had one, or how to be a good Dad despite never having been one myself nor having a good father in my own life.

 

Often those of us with negative experiences are in fact well-placed to offer the positive advice - we are already living proof of mistakes made, prime examples on how *not* to do something. So by saying not to take the course of action we've taken, we're saving you the hassle of screwing it up yourselves.

 

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2. There are no truly evil people. There are no 'forcing burdens that the censorkip.gif*** is still alive'. Even if we killed, in the end, it won't bring the dead back to life. Nothing will. A person was killed in a way that makes us all very sad. Nothing will bring them back. Nothing will somehow undo the damage caused to the loved ones. A vengeful and angry justice... in the end, is an empty one. Anger does that to a person.

 

Finally, can we discuss less on the more emotional 'what if it were you' reasoning? I don't think irrational emotions should play a part in this kind of discussion.

No truly evil people? Your hope for humanity far outshines mine. I'm not a paranoid freak or something, but humanity is most likely 2 more world wars away before I think we hit any form of utopia and I can truly believe there are no evil humans.

 

Also, where did I say, or even allude to, irrational vengeance. My standpoint was entirely open to the interpretation of the reader and I in no way leaned toward a specific emotion. You may be blinded vengeance, I myself would be filled with bloodlust, only to satisfied when the perpetrators heart ceases to beat, but I ask that you avoid skewing what I wrote, which again I say is open to individual interpretation.

 

@fuzzbucket You read to deeply into the question. I asked "Can you look anyone dead in the eye, bear your soul before them, and say you don t want ANY form of revenge?" My use of "ANY" does not linearly correlate with death which I admit take my question a bit off topic. However, if your saying that revenge in any form even jail time is wrong, then you simply love no one and don't care if they are hurt or worse. I apologize for over projecting myself, but again, if someone precious to you is taken, there is no way that you would accept nothing being done.

 

About the Buddha and the Dalai-lama. They are both enlightened minds and probably two of the most brilliant minds on the planet. However, no matter how dis-attached one makes themselves in the journey to enlightenment even they are still humans. Great figures like these and others have, in the face of great grief or turmoil, stepped down from their positions in order to pursue what they thought was right. I won't say vengeance is human nature, because that is only true in the weak among us, but I can say that sometimes a choice of seeking even a mild form of vengeance is the less of two evils.

 

 

 

Finally someone said "a vengeful and angry justice is an empty one." Perhaps I am just more cynical then most, but I will leave that for others to ponder. To me, justice is only empty when a non guilty party is involved. Calling justice empty for, in some cases vengeance, is an affront to every police, judge and victim ever on the receiving end of an atrocity.

Edited by Demonshadow88

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One can offer views and advice without having experienced the event in question. I can diagnose, treat and offer advice about a broken ankle having never had one, or how to be a good Dad despite never having been one myself nor having a good father in my own life.

 

Everyone is entitled to voice their opinions, I however find it extremely funny when a person who has never even been kissed nor in love offers relationship advices, so yeah you can offer views and advices as much as you want, in a same manner I state the fact that it is amusing to me....

 

Often those of us with negative experiences are in fact well-placed to offer the positive advice - we are already living proof of mistakes made, prime examples on how *not* to do something. So by saying not to take the course of action we've taken, we're saving you the hassle of screwing it up yourselves.

 

1. "One can offer views and advice without having experienced the event in question." + "Often those of us with negative experiences are in fact well-placed to offer the positive advice" = Sounds to me like you are saying that positive or negative experience gives you an insight after all....

 

2. His action - let go of negative emotions

His advice - let go of negative emotions

Result - he still is a disturbed guy

 

What would be the "not to do" part as you called it ?

 

3. "A" hits on 50 girls, goes on a date with 44 of them.

"B" hits on the same 50 girls, goes on a date with 0 of them.

 

Who do you figure people would rather ask for an advice on how to pick a girl up ?

Edited by The Evil Doer

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@fuzzbucket You read to deeply into the question. I asked "Can you look anyone dead in the eye, bear your soul before them, and say you don t want ANY form of revenge?" My use of "ANY" does not linearly correlate with death which I admit take my question a bit off topic. However, if your saying that revenge in any form even jail time is wrong, then you simply love no one and don't care if they are hurt or worse. I apologize for over projecting myself, but again, if someone precious to you is taken, there is no way that you would accept nothing being done.

 

About the Buddha and the Dalai-lama. They are both enlightened minds and probably two of the most brilliant minds on the planet. However, no matter how dis-attached one makes themselves in the journey to enlightenment even they are still humans. Great figures like these and others have, in the face of great grief or turmoil, stepped down from their positions in order to pursue what they thought was right. I won't say vengeance is human nature, because that is only true in the weak among us, but I can say that sometimes a choice of seeking even a mild form of vengeance is the less of two evils.

 

No, I read exactly what you meant, I think.

 

I am not saying that jail is wrong. but I am saying it is NOT something I would see as "revenge". I do NOT see someone doing time (ideally community service, which actually achieves something all round) for the crime - but I do NOT see that as revenge. It will not "make me feel better" to know that they did the time. Revenge is - in theory - the way you get to feel that things have been in some way balanced out FOR YOU. I'm not interested. I do not seek revenge. I hope that the people who do awful things are helped to become better people.

 

And sure, Buddha was, and the Dalai Lama still is, human. That doesn't mean either one espouses revenge.

 

And incidentally, while I'm passing - I agree with soullesshuman that there are no evil PEOPLE. There are evil deeds done by human beings. NOT the same thing. Hate the sin, not the sinner. There is a very essential difference.

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@fuzzbucket

 

Why are you so stuck on the revenge part ?

Let me ask you this, lets say Elizabeth is a 35 yo mother, she has a 7 yo child, that child gets viciously attacked, raped and left for dead yet manages to survive, its pretty damn obvious that the child will have nightmares/trauma, is it so obscene to assume that Elizabeth and her child would feel much safer if they were to know that the attacker is no longer alive ?

Is it so hard for you to agree with the statement that his death will help them regain some of the control over their lives, that it will help them with the healing process, that it will eliminate forever him as a potential threat ?

Edited by The Evil Doer

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@fuzzbucket

 

Why are you so stuck on the revenge part ?

Let me ask you this, lets say Elizabeth is a 35 yo mother, she has a 7 yo child, that child gets viciously attacked, raped and left for dead yet manages to survive, its pretty damn obvious that the child will have nightmares/trauma, is it so obscene to assume that Elizabeth and her child would feel much safer if they were to know that the attacker is no longer alive ?

Is it so hard for you to agree with the statement that his death will help them regain some of the control over their lives, that it will help them with the healing process, that it will eliminate forever him as a potential threat ?

Someone threw out this question to us all:

 

Can you look anyone dead in the eye, bear your soul before them, and say you don t want any form of revenge? ---Of course not, Buddha and the Dalia-llama themselves could not say that, without utterly soiling the names and spirits of the now dead.

 

I simply said - no, I would not. Because I wouldn't. I was then challenged and I reiterated - no.

 

I have no need for revenge and I think it is an entirely negative thing. That's all. I am also against the death penalty but in terms of your question here - I am simply answering that now. I am not HUNG UP on revenge, I just don't think it is a very hot idea.

 

And in answer to your example - no, I would not feel it would help ME to get any form of closure, and no, if someone murdered one of my children - even if it was incontrovertibly proved that they had done it - even if they admitted it - I would not want them killed for it. It would not make me feel healed, it would not let me get on with my life, it would not make me feel in control. And my child would be just as dead, so what would have been gained ?

 

Clearly your milage varies.

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Someone threw out this question to us all:

 

I simply said - no, I would not. Because I wouldn't. I was then challenged and I reiterated - no.

 

I have no need for revenge and I think it is an entirely negative thing. That's all. I am also against the death penalty but in terms of your question here - I am simply answering that now. I am not HUNG UP on revenge, I just don't think it is a very hot idea.

 

And in answer to your example - no, I would not feel it would help ME to get any form of closure, and no, if someone murdered one of my children - even if it was incontrovertibly proved that they had done it - even if they admitted it - I would not want them killed for it. It would not make me feel healed, it would not let me get on with my life, it would not make me feel in control. And my child would be just as dead, so what would have been gained ?

 

Clearly your milage varies.

Ok, I get your answer to his question, respect your view, my bad... What I asked though, in a specific case I presented - "Is it so hard for you to agree with the statement that his death will help them regain some of the control over their lives, that it will help them with the healing process, that it will eliminate him, forever, as a potential threat ?"

You talked about your children so I assume you are a mother, is it so hard to understand mother's need to shield her children ? Wouldnt eliminating him do just that ? Isnt that the basic instinct a mother has ?

Again, as a mother who has a traumatized child, wouldnt you feel safer if the guy who attacked her was dead ? Dont you think your child would feel safer knowing that he will never hurt her again ? Even if you dont feel that way, is it unreasonable that most parents would feel that way ?

Edited by The Evil Doer

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You talked about your children so I assume you are a mother, is it so hard to understand mother's need to shield her children ? Wouldnt eliminating him do just that ? Isnt that the basic instinct a mother has ?

Again, as a mother who has a traumatized child, wouldnt you feel safer if the guy who attacked her was dead ? Dont you think your child would feel safer knowing that he will never hurt her again ? Even if you dont feel that way, is it unreasonable that most parents would feel that way ?

I am a mother and even a grandmother - and no I wouldn't feel safer if someone who attacked my (grand)child was killed. Instinct as a concept hasn't too much to do with this. It is more a matter of personal belief.

 

Nothing about feelings is reasonable, though. Feelings are not subject to reason. I realise that many parents do feel that way - but I would not - no. And - even if the attacker were dead - there are more out there. I refuse to live my life in fear. Which is part of what all this is about.

 

My child feeling safer after an attack. I think good therapy would do more for that.

 

But if you teach a child that once someone who attacked them is dead, they are safe - that is very dangerous. I would rather teach them how to assess risk and avoid danger. That will cover their butt far better than giving them a false sense of security with the idea that the death of one attacker will make them safe.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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I am a mother and even a grandmother - and no I wouldn't feel safer if someone who attacked my (grand)child was killed. Instinct as a concept hasn't too much to do with this. It is more a matter of personal belief.

 

Nothing about feelings is reasonable, though. Feelings are not subject to reason. I realise that many parents do feel that way - but I would not - no. And - even if the attacker were dead - there are more out there. I refuse to live my life in fear. Which is part of what all this is about.

 

My child feeling safer after an attack. I think good therapy would do more for that.

 

But if you teach a child that once someone who attacked them is dead, they are safe - that is very dangerous. I would rather teach them how to assess risk and avoid danger. That will cover their butt far better than giving them a false sense of security with the idea that the death of one attacker will make them safe.

Refusing to live in fear is not the same thing as ignoring fear completely, fear is a basic mechanism all species share and it just like others ensures our survival.

 

I used phrases regaining control over their life and feeling safer, nowhere did I claim that they would feel safe, matter of fact after surviving such trauma I doubt they would ever feel safe again.

With that being said after going through such trauma the child would have a face to go with the concept of the monster, the face would be of the person who attacked them and yes, eliminating that threat forever would in my opinion indeed help them on some level to feel safer.

Therapy is necessary but when they close their eyes at night and see the face of the monster, well there is a world of difference between knowing that your monster is no longer a threat and between opening your eyes and looking around to see if he is maybe there inside the room, waiting to strike again, that is something therapy cant provide.....

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Everyone is entitled to voice their opinions, I however find it extremely funny when a person who has never even been kissed nor in love offers relationship advices, so yeah you can offer views and advices as much as you want, in a same manner I state the fact that it is amusing to me....

 

 

 

1. "One can offer views and advice without having experienced the event in question." + "Often those of us with negative experiences are in fact well-placed to offer the positive advice" = Sounds to me like you are saying that positive or negative experience gives you an insight after all....

 

2. His action - let go of negative emotions

His advice - let go of negative emotions

Result - he still is a disturbed guy

 

What would be the "not to do" part as you called it ?

 

3. "A" hits on 50 girls, goes on a date with 44 of them.

"B" hits on the same 50 girls, goes on a date with 0 of them.

 

Who do you figure people would rather ask for an advice on how to pick a girl up ?

So because I've never suffered a broken ankle, or had cancer, I can't treat my patients? Or a counsellor isn't fit to work because they have never had a terminal mental breakdown? If I remember your ex was in psychology - is she an insane, bipolar, depressive, mentally-damaged OCD-ridden shell of a person? Because if she isn't, she's clearly not very good at her job.

 

Yes, a negative experience gives you an insight; after all, if you know how something will fail, you can advise others not to take that course and thus decrease their chances of failing.

 

And since I've only dated three girls, my advice is worth nothing? Despite the fact all three relationships have lasted at least four years, I've been engaged, and managed to cohabit with my partner for over two years? I would take my advice over a gigilo who has never had a relationship last more than a month each and every time. Pulling 44 women isn't something to respect or be proud of - it means they are probably less important than the shirt you put on in order to pull them.

Edited by Kestra15

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So because I've never suffered a broken ankle, or had cancer, I can't treat my patients? Or a counsellor isn't fit to work because they have never had a terminal mental breakdown? If I remember your ex was in psychology - is she an insane, bipolar, depressive, mentally-damaged OCD-ridden shell of a person? Because if she isn't, she's clearly not very good at her job.

 

Like I said, if you have never even been kissed its amusing that you are giving relationship advices - translation into your world would be - you are a nurse, you have seen broken ankles, seen how they should be treated hence you do have experience with broken ankles if you are a 16 yo who knows nothing about human body (except for the fact that he has one) indeed I would find it amusing (and dangerous in this case) that you are giving advice to anyone on how to treat a broken ankle... Clear ?

 

Yes, a negative experience gives you an insight; after all, if you know how something will fail, you can advise others not to take that course and thus decrease their chances of failing.

 

I dont feel like going in circles over trivial stuff, every sort of experience gives you an insight of a sort, thats what experience is all about...

 

You have a winning team and a losing team, you want to win, who are you asking for an advice ? no need to answer as its rhethorical...

 

And since I've only dated three girls, my advice is worth nothing? Despite the fact all three relationships have lasted at least four years, I've been engaged, and managed to cohabit with my partner for over two years? I would take my advice over a gigilo who has never had a relationship last more than a month each and every time. Pulling 44 women isn't something to respect or be proud of - it means they are probably less important than the shirt you put on in order to pull them.

 

I seriously dont know if you keep missing the point just for the sake of argument or for some other reason.... Debate is not about gigolos, nor about how worthy your advice is... The concept is clear

 

If you want your team to win you will ask a winner for an advice and not the loser

If you want to make neglected dragons, you will ask a person who makes them and not the person who failed in all his attempts

If you want to get a date with a girl you will ask the dude who knows how to get a date and not the dude who keeps getting shut down,,,

 

Makes sense now ?

I hope it does because this is not really constructive and also has nothing to do with death penalty, so Im done with it....

Edited by The Evil Doer

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I'll only say this one. Check my name. Heart? Kindless? I an incapable of extending such emotions to hypothesized people I don't know personally. I am Soulless. What you are sickened by has no regards to me, and what I am sickened by has no regards to some random person on the street that I may observe from my little window. A personal opinion like that can't really be proven or reasoned with, so how do you expect any person to be able to argue this with anything more than 'I think your opinion is wrong'?

Wasn't really talking to you specifically. I realize that you are detached from society and most social experiences and would not expect you to take my opinion as one you can identify with.

 

2. There are no truly evil people.

In the same stretch, if you are so truly isolated from society as you describe, how can you be so sure that there are no truly evil people? Are you open to changing that opinion? Or is it something you just know regardless of experience? Is it a religious thing?

 

Dunno, curious. I know I've opened myself to a change of opinions over the years, and in some cases I have... murder, crime, and the death penalty is not one, however. Maybe because it's not something people commonly experience in their lifetime. Is there anything short of experiencing it yourself that can change opinions on such a controversial topic? I don't know, sometimes it seems that way. Maybe that's the paradox of it all.

Note, I'm not referring to any one poster in particular.

Edited by Nine

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I do believe in the death penalty for murderers. Before they are put to death, you dern well better have DNA to prove it though. No excuse for an innocent man to die PERIOD.

 

When you commit a murder, you made that choice. What about the victims family and the person they killed.

 

I am sick of the bleeding hearts for these moronic drivals who need to be elimentated before they can do harm to someone else. Think if it was you or a family member they killed.

 

A lot of your money and my money would stay in your pockets if they were put to death instead of supporting them, where they have all the comforts they want. The system is a joke though.

I agree. DNA should be manditory before even considering it.

It would have to be a hardcore crime. They even DNA tested Bin Laden (even though he was already dead, and to verify it was him) He deserved death for all the lifes he took. I believe they should only consider death if:

They HAVE correct DNA matches

And if it was a SEVERE act of terrorizim, or they killed someone. u no wut dey say " an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"

 

They should do it quick. too. If I were ever in their place (I wont cool.gif I wud flip out until the day came, then I'd flip out even more.

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So because I've never suffered a broken ankle, or had cancer, I can't treat my patients? Or a counsellor isn't fit to work because they have never had a terminal mental breakdown? If I remember your ex was in psychology - is she an insane, bipolar, depressive, mentally-damaged OCD-ridden shell of a person? Because if she isn't, she's clearly not very good at her job.

 

Yes, a negative experience gives you an insight; after all, if you know how something will fail, you can advise others not to take that course and thus decrease their chances of failing.

 

And since I've only dated three girls, my advice is worth nothing? Despite the fact all three relationships have lasted at least four years, I've been engaged, and managed to cohabit with my partner for over two years? I would take my advice over a gigilo who has never had a relationship last more than a month each and every time. Pulling 44 women isn't something to respect or be proud of - it means they are probably less important than the shirt you put on in order to pull them.

Schooling and training makes one competent in their field. Experience also makes one competent. I do not believe that soulless human has either of these so your argument seems to lack a foundation.

 

And just for the record, among psychologist there is a saying that the broken therapist is the best therapist since they can relate to their patient from first hand experience. That is something that makes a friend of mine one of the best abuse counselors in our area.

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I find it downright immoral. Sure, that person supposedly killed someone else, but does two wrongs make a right? No.

 

I don't understand how we allow this. Someone could be a complete heartless killer and yet it doesn't give anyone a right to kill them, does it? Lockdown for life seems like a better fit punishment. Let them drown in boredom instead. It's less violent and probably has more morality. I believe in nonviolent punishment and life over death morality, so that's why I dislike the "death penalty" with such despision. I guess it's safe to say that it's one of the few things I hate. And believe me, I don't hate much. :/

I know it's old but ever heard of Eye for an Eye and tooth for a tooth? It's in the bible xd.png

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I know it's old but ever heard of Eye for an Eye and tooth for a tooth? It's in the bible xd.png

Yes I have; I don't buy into it - AND - if you are going to invoke the Bible. remember never to eat shellfish, to name but one... xd.png

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And just for the record, among psychologist there is a saying that the broken therapist is the best therapist since they can relate to their patient from first hand experience. That is something that makes a friend of mine one of the best abuse counselors in our area.

And yet the risk of emotional involvement and loss of objectivity is therefore greater, so being a broken therapist does not immediately mean you are a better one.

 

Evil, if you cannot appreciate that 'losers' can offer advice that is as valuable as 'winners' then you are simply ignoring a wealth of experience. Yes, you could ask someone who has succeeded in creating a neglected dragon how they did it - but for every one created there have been hundreds that have failed, and it may be the mistake you make when you follow the winner's advice is a common one that everyone has made. But because you refuse to listen to the loser then you will never know.

 

In all sciences, a failure is often as critical, if not more so, than success during the learning phase.

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Yes I have; I don't buy into it - AND - if you are going to invoke the Bible. remember never to eat shellfish, to name but one... xd.png

NT says otherwise ;3 A better example would be never shave your beard.

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Evil, if you cannot appreciate that 'losers' can offer advice that is as valuable as 'winners' then you are simply ignoring a wealth of experience. Yes, you could ask someone who has succeeded in creating a neglected dragon how they did it - but for every one created there have been hundreds that have failed, and it may be the mistake you make when you follow the winner's advice is a common one that everyone has made. But because you refuse to listen to the loser then you will never know.

 

In all sciences, a failure is often as critical, if not more so, than success during the learning phase.

Your stubbornness is getting in the way, you cant seem to grasp simple concepts...

 

Winner is not someone who has won one game and lost 100, winner is someone who found a way to win after learning from his mistakes as a loser, winning one game doeasnt make you a winner.....

Neglected expert is not someone who managed to turn one by mistake and failed 100 times, neglected expert is someone who has learned from his failures/successes and found the method that works hence an expert...

 

Loser keeps losing, failed experimenter keeps failing, I strongly advise you against asking for an advice from people who have yet figured a way to win/succeed, because people who dont learn from their mistakes can rarely offer more insight than those who do evolve....

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1. First of all - "If you were murdered, you would like your family to be happy that you no longer have to bear the burden of living anymore" that is just one seriously messed up thing to say.. leaving it at that...

 

How's it messed up? Would you rather I say 'YEAH I WANT MY FAMILY TO WANT PEOPLE KILLED' ? If I'm killed, I wouldn't mind it and would like my family to move on peacefully.

 

2. Considering the fact that you have some mental issues (as you have stated), wouldnt you say its safe to assume that those issues are the ones clouding your judgement hence making it an irrational process from the start ?

Isn't everything humans do irrational? Why're we talking about my ability to make an argument and not my argument itself? It honestly feels a bit insulting that I try to discuss a subject and I'm being cast aside as too crazy to think.

 

You talk about letting go of negative emotions, moving on and being a healthy person yet you have suicidal tendencies, depression and have isolated yourself from the society.. How does that work exactly ?

 

You say anger leads to emptiness inside, that you are letting go of anger yet at the same time you claim you are empty inside, soulless ? Where is the logic in that ?

I think you can answer your own question here and come to your own conclusions. If you honestly want to just say 'you're nuts, shut up, you don't have an argument', say so. I don't feel that I should have to defend my lifestyle, just my arguments. It's a touch insulting when anything I try to say is met with 'but you're a crazy nut'. laugh.gif

 

2. His action - let go of negative emotions

His advice - let go of negative emotions

Result - he still is a disturbed guy

Let's, uh, not get into the insults, please? That's rather rude...

Edited by soullesshuman

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LOL... you missed the point in pretty much everything I said, rephrasing

 

How's it messed up? Would you rather I say 'YEAH I WANT MY FAMILY TO WANT PEOPLE KILLED' ? If I'm killed, I wouldn't mind it and would like my family to move on peacefully.

 

The messed up thing was you referring to your existence as a burden

 

Isn't everything humans do irrational? Why're we talking about my ability to make an argument and not my argument itself? It honestly feels a bit insulting that I try to discuss a subject and I'm being cast aside as too crazy to think.

 

Again, rephrasing, havent discussed your ability to think nor called you crazy, was referring to your ability to understand why other people feel the way they feel...

Go back to what it was addressing and you will see its about your inability to understand people and their needs, I think your condition clouds your ability to understand people, even on basic levels....

 

I think you can answer your own question here and come to your own conclusions. If you honestly want to just say 'you're nuts, shut up, you don't have an argument', say so. I don't feel that I should have to defend my lifestyle, just my arguments. It's a touch insulting when anything I try to say is met with 'but you're a crazy nut'.  laugh.gif

Let's, uh, not get into the insults, please? That's rather rude...

 

Again, have no issues with your lifestyle, your life, your choices, have an issue with your argument, and thats what I asked you about....

 

You say, the only way to a healthy life is by doing a....z

You say you have done just that... but....

You are not living a healthy life...

 

Your argument makes no sense to me, I was asking how come it makes any sense to you ?

Edited by The Evil Doer

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Again, have no issues with your lifestyle, your life, your choices, have an issue with your argument, and thats what I asked you about....

 

You say, the only way to a healthy life is by doing a....z

You say you have done just that... but....

You are not living a healthy life...

 

Your argument makes no sense to me, I was asking how come it makes any sense to you ?

Wait, I said I live a healthy life? laugh.gif Sorry if I did. No, obviously enough, I got my demons just like everyone else has them.

 

But, back on topic, I don't suppose any of my arguments from here on out will actually be taken with any seriousness, because I think the only thing I'll receive back is 'you don't understand, you're too disturbed to understand', which is kinda unfortunate and a bit of an ad hom. Ah well.

 

So, I don't believe in the death penalty, mostly because I see no reason to be running around killing people to try and say killing people is bad. Murder and killing are different, maybe, but I think we as a society should really move away from the killy killy aspects of society, not incorporating it into our justice system.

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You brought yourself into the equation when you said you are incapable of empathizing with people you dont know, and when you claimed that you are detached from society, I was merely suggesting that those two might be the main reason for your inability to understand other people and their needs (since you kept saying that you cant unerstand why)....

 

With that being said, I'm sorry it seemed to you as a personal attack, wasnt meant as such....

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You brought yourself into the equation when you said you are incapable of empathizing with people you dont know, and when you claimed that you are detached from society, I was merely suggesting that those two might be the main reason for your inability to understand other people and their needs (since you kept saying that you cant unerstand why)....

 

With that being said, I'm sorry it seemed to you as a personal attack, wasnt meant as such....

Naw it's fine. I was stating as such to clarify that a large part of why arguments about subjective natures like 'how would you feel if' and 'i feel safer when' and that really hold no water when it comes to me because, to me, they mean nothing. Just 'cause I have trouble doesn't mean I can't still try. Kinda like trying to tell an autistic person they're autistic, so they hold no weight in a discussion.

Edited by soullesshuman

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@fuzzbucket

Let me ask you this, lets say Elizabeth is a 35 yo mother, she has a 7 yo child, that child gets viciously attacked, raped and left for dead yet manages to survive, its pretty damn obvious that the child will have nightmares/trauma, is it so obscene to assume that Elizabeth and her child would feel much safer if they were to know that the attacker is no longer alive ?

Is it so hard for you to agree with the statement that his death will help them regain some of the control over their lives, that it will help them with the healing process, that it will eliminate forever him as a potential threat ?

If I were Elizabeth, I'd sure feel better knowing that the attacker won't be able to do anything like that ever again. Sure, there's a life sentence, but here, in Germany, it usually means 15 years minus 3 to 5 years for good behavior/attending your therapy regularly. Even if someone is supposed to be put away in an institution after serving his sentence because he is considered a threat to society, he will get out as soon as he manages to fool one of his therapists - which happens with disturbing regularity around here. Seriously, I read about cases like this several times a year - and most often after the offender commited another crime, often worse than the one(s) he was convicted for in the first place. Heck, there was even that child molester (who started his "career" as a rapist in his late teens/early twenties) who got out and molested another child within less than a week out of prison!

 

Apparently, according to my research, only aggravated murder and treason should be given death sentences...
See above. Sexual offenders have a strong tendency to be repeat offenders because they have some psychological issues that turn them into sexual offenders in the first place.

 

I don't see families in europe, canada, etc somehow getting on with less ability than families in america in which the victim's killer was killed. After all, anger is only one of the processes in dealing with grief; it is by far not the only or even most significant process.
No, there's also fear. Fear of a repitition, of the killer/rapist/child molester/whatever coming to get you or your family again. There's the nightmares and the paranoia, the depression and self-hate. Taking away only one of these factors - fear of "him" doing it again - is a vast improvement in my mind, and might help with some of the anger issues. (Not all, mind you.)

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