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Albinism and other color variations

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dark (melanistic?) daydream (dark blue with dark pink mane)

o_O

 

Why... why would there be a dark daydream? The whole point was for them to be bright, exaggerated and colourful.

 

I do have a series of close cousins planned for them in similarly loud bright colours.

Edited by Lythiaren

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Albinoes don't get darker, they get lighter. That means that either one the entire Daydream would be white and keep its eyes or well that's all I can say

 

But there could be some exceptions. Albinoes aren't the only kinds, more of less a Daydream with some of its color would be Leucistic (it's pale but keeps some color)

 

But to go with the albino thing, there is rarity, you couldn't get a albino on the first go, you might never get one like a person could summon all the time and never get a Guardian of Nature.

 

But now I consider it, some albinoes would be nice, especially because I can't find a suitable form for my O.c, she's albino but has pink eyes and I really don't want to make her a Albino 'actual' dragon.

 

But that's the spriters' choice

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o_O

 

Why... why would there be a dark daydream? The whole point was for them to be bright, exaggerated and colourful.

 

I do have a series of close cousins planned for them in similarly loud bright colours.

Just because it would look cool and provide a rare alt? When I suggested this, daydreams seemed to sit endlessly in the cave unless I took them (which I often did, see my army), so it seemed like a good idea at the time. However, they aren't quite as over-common anymore. (Still common, but not blocker common.)

 

Albinoes don't get darker, they get lighter. That means that either one the entire Daydream would be white and keep its eyes or well that's all I can say

This thread might be titled something with albinism, but it quickly changed into a discussion on various color morphs. And, since daydreams are pretty light-colored already, I suggested a melanistic version.

Edited by olympe

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Even just different sprite for second gender for each type would help with this. at least for a while as people catchup their scrolls

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Faded colouration is generally just termed Schizochroism (absence of a pigment). Leucism is (normally) patches of white (though sometimes total save eyes/legs).

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Breeds open for recolors (after asking for permission):

black

daydream

tangars

magi

moonstone

neotropical

red

ridgewings

spotted greenwing

What about Mint dragons?

They are cute, but I think they could need something to make the a little bit more interesting.

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Unlikely. See the art usage form of Shikaru, the creator of the mints:

Artist: Shikaru

 

Use on site: Yes

Edit for in order to fit on site (resizing, color cutting, etc): I'd like to be able to do so myself.

Recolor for use on site (just because, shinies, etc): I'd like to do it myself unless permission expressly given for a particular sprite

Derivatives for use on site (Ascended, la femme, etc): Same as above

Use as is fanart/avatars: Fine as long as there is some connection to Dragcave is given.

Edit for fanart/avatars: As long as it's dragcave related it's fine.

Derivative fan art: Permission given for Mints and hatchlings(if the creator of the adult is fine with it), otherwise I would like to be asked.

Use of pixel version in merchandise: That would look terrible, but yes.

Use of derivative versions (drawings, etc) in merchandise: Yes

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I had just written a whole thing for albino, leucistic, and piebald dragons. Then I searched piebald to see if anyone else had already come up with anything like it and I find this.

 

I'm no spriter, but I already "piebalded" a Shallow Water into a koi with the pencil, eyedropper and paint bucket on Microsoft Paint as an example and I can't figure out how to stick it in this post.

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You really need to check with artists of the dragons before doing things like that. From the artist permissions sticky'd in this section:

 

Artist: Marrionetta

 

Use On Site: Yes

Edit for in order to fit on site (resizing, color cutting, etc): I'll do it

Recolor for use on site (just because, shinies, etc): Hate shinies, if TJ wants colors changed I'll change them

Derivatives for use on site (Ascended, la femme, etc): Go for it

 

So it wouldn't be a good idea to post your re-color, anyway.

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Now see, if anything of mine ended up in cave, I wouldn't object to making a recolor or two just for fun. To me, it isn't about getting rid of caveblockers, it is about ADDING INTEREST WHEN THINGS GET BORING. Which in the recent absence of new releases, is what is happening right now with me. I am near the end of my goal, so other than lineage projects(which I am not really that much into), there is nothing to do, and am steadily losing interest in the site. A recolor though adds interest into the tedium of hatching that egg there that you have, rather than the assurance that yes, this dragon is going to hatch as X, there is the excitement of seeing if it might just hatch out Y. I understand why some might not find that interesting, but I will say right now that I do, and I am sure I am not the only person.

 

As for simply recoloring it albino, it would depend on the breed. I couldn't see X breed in the desert going well as albino, but Y breed in the jungle? The making of recolors is why I redid my Colibri project, my original idea was to make a melanistic version, but I fell in love with doing them based on different hummingbirds instead. And you know what? I had fun doing it, even though it was hard work, it was actually one of the concepts I enjoyed doing the most. I am just having a hard time understanding some of the violent no reactions to doing any recolors.

Edited by Nectaris

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You really need to check with artists of the dragons before doing things like that. From the artist permissions sticky'd in this section:

 

So it wouldn't be a good idea to post your re-color, anyway.

 

Got'cha. Sorry.

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I actually think that this is an interesting idea. However, it'd take a while to get permission from all the spriters to recolour their sprites.

 

I'd prefer quite a low chance of getting an albino, like, 5% or less? I think they should be rare 8D.

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How can albinoes block or unblock a cave? they are just creatures (or sprites for bluntly). Albinism can work, but it and different colors are a bit of two different shades.

 

Albinoes lack a certain color (leucistics would be awsome too).

 

But maybe it can happen, but it can be rare like how it's rare to get a Alt. Black.

 

If there's a albino dragon then chances are that the others have it in their gene pools, some might be able to have access to it while others can't...

 

Unless something sciency was done to give the Albino dragon's gene to a certain dragon.

 

I like the idea of Albinoes, mainly because if they were done then they would be cared for by humans, a albino can't survive much (oh they can if their will is into it) in the wild, but they can do well with their keepers.

 

And the other scroll dragons. We're not suggesting wild albino others, these would be owned by the DC members...if somebody releases them then the wild dragons would protect it.

 

I kind of do wonder what breeds would look like with red or pink eyes and it would help since one of my characters is albino.

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How can albinoes block or unblock a cave? they are just creatures (or sprites for bluntly). Albinism can work, but it and different colors are a bit of two different shades.

 

Albinoes lack a certain color (leucistics would be awsome too).

 

But maybe it can happen, but it can be rare like how it's rare to get a Alt. Black.

 

If there's a albino dragon then chances are that the others have it in their gene pools, some might be able to have access to it while others can't...

 

Unless something sciency was done to give the Albino dragon's gene to a certain dragon.

 

I like the idea of Albinoes, mainly because if they were done then they would be cared for by humans, a albino can't survive much (oh they can if their will is into it) in the wild, but they can do well with their keepers.

 

And the other scroll dragons. We're not suggesting wild albino others, these would be owned by the DC members...if somebody releases them then the wild dragons would protect it.

 

I kind of do wonder what breeds would look like with red or pink eyes and it would help since one of my characters is albino.

Albinism is caused by genes that restrict melanin production to nothing in an animal. There are some animals (and breeds of animals) that are not able to produce alibno's through natures and humans interactions with the species. There are no true albino horses, American albinos have blue eyes, but the allelle to cause albinism does not exist in horses, and in them it it theoretical.

 

There are also certain breeds of rabbit that are exclusivly albino (called REW or Red Eyed White or Ruby Eyed White depending on breeder/breed standered or just white) and other breeds which have had the albino gene bred out of them. I imagine that somewhere in dc genetics history the albino gene has died out in all species(breeds) but the albino dragon and is now some how linked to the sunscreen it produces. I would not want to see albinos in cave because its just a re-coloration, or if they were to be introduced they had to have an albino on both sides of their family tree to be one, but that is way to complex for DC.

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Well, although the original idea was for actual albinism, several people pointed out that there are more color mutations out there than that - albinism, leucism, melanism, genes for patterned hide (with white spots)... Also, you see that most dragons have more than one color. Look at the red dragon, for example: It's mostly red (red pigment), but has also black wings and belly scales (black pigment - or highly concentrated dark brown pigment). In theory, you could have one gene affecting the amount of red pigment produced, or one only affecting the black areas, or one affecting both. Then, some genes can influence the actual colors produced. For example, black pigments are very similar to various brown pigments, and red ones are chemically similar to orange and yellow (and some brown) ones.

 

With these variations alone, you could get the following variations on the red dragon alone:

  • red dragon with brown or dark grey wing membranes and/or belly scales
  • red dragon with light brown or light grey wing membranes and/or belly scales
  • red dragon with white (or maybe red?) wing membranes and/or belly scales
  • dark red/chestnut-colored "red" dragon with black wing membranes and/or belly scales
  • orange-colored "red" dragon with black wing membranes and/or belly scales
  • yellow- or ochre-colored "red" dragon with black wing membranes and/or belly scales
  • albino-colored "red" dragon with black wing membranes and/or belly scales
Now, you have to combine all potential body colors (4+1 original) with all potential secondary colors (3+1), giving you 5*4=20 variations. Additionally, the dragons could develop patterns - spots, bands... - or the colors could be inverted, giving you a black "red" dragon with red wing membranes and belly scales. (There's something like that in budgies, the mutation is called spangle, if I'm not very much mistaken.)

 

So, yes, there are countless variations possible in nature - so why not in dragons? And, not putting too fine a point on making things "realistic" on DC, we could probably get away with any kind of recolor, as long as the original artists agree.

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The problem is that there are so many species and so many variations that it would get crazy and could (gasp!) cause problems with lineages. Now I know it would open up more lineage ideas but it would also cause frustration when you get an 'alt'.

 

Plus if you had one version spotted and one version banded then you would get why can't you have spotted and banded? or spots in another area? Now honestly I'd like to see it happening but i could see it as a nightmare to code unless you do something like whats done with spinda in the pokemon games, and even there I'm sure that spinda just has multible sprites to cover the fact that each one has a slightly different spot pattern

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That's why I wouldn't want to go down the genetic road, but claim creative licence based on what is possible with mere genetics.

 

Also, there wouldn't be numerous recolors be released for each and every breed. Instead, a recolor should be released once one breed really starts blocking the cave. For example, you can often see neotropicals as blockers. Would it be so terrible if a recolor was released for that breed so the demand goes up again? (In such a case, the color variation shouldn't be obvious on the egg, only on the hatchling.)

 

Of course, I'm aware that this kind of stuff doesn't usually keep demand up indefinitely, but for a while, the ratios will see enough neos to not produce that many. But once we reach the situation that neos become blockers again, they could gain another recolor.

 

If the artists in question don't veto that, it might help with the blocker problem, and at the same time, recolors are much easier to make than new sprites for "real" alts or hybrids.

 

And, as annoying as it might be to accidentally breed the new variation, there would be new lineage concepts cropping up that more than make up for the people not breeding them all that much any more.

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To be realistic then surely albinistic eggs would get sick easier.

 

About the idea itself, I don't know. Once I have all the frozen hatchlings and adults I would kind of search for something else to work on. I don't know if 5% alternate colours of dragons will occupy that, but who knows. Still trying to get my curled alt anyway, that is hard enough.

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Well, 5% might be a little low - but it's bound to increase trading value of the alts considerably. Even 10% might be a good thing.

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Not if the eggs had the same oils that Albinos have. Remember, Albino dragons have no scales, and produce a special oil (which the Lumina doesn't like).

 

I think a other ones are nice, I heard of colors in leopards as a thing. There was strawberry color (very rare and pretty), Ethy...red ones, Leusistics are my big favs. But others.

 

I don't think it would be too bad, I me in breedings a different species would contribute new genes (though DC doesn't go into that unless with hybrids).

 

But if the genes are there...then you can have higher or lower chances.

 

I like this idea, because many dragons don't fit the standards I'm looking for, they have white scales...but blue eyes. (Leucistics can have brown...such beautiful brown).

 

Surely this couldn't be much trouble sprite wise, and it's not like the egg will change. The egg could be a normal egg, like with the Alt Black is a normal egg.

 

Look at Penk, she's a pink Tinsel (very pretty too), but all her children are normal...so there's a 50 or whatever chance of a albino offspring if you think of the ways genes work.

 

So, really it doesn't do much, if you get a albino or other than lucky you there's no true chance (of course if a normal Albino there's that chance)

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I simply cannot foresee anyone taking that much time and effort just to make 'rare' dragons. Honestly, cave blocking is part of the game, and it should stay that way. Pick up commons if you so desire.

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Not if the eggs had the same oils that Albinos have. Remember, Albino dragons have no scales, and produce a special oil (which the Lumina doesn't like).

 

I believe it was already mentioned (not in this thread but elsewhere) that Albino dragons are not albinistic, but instead the red eyes and white colouring is to do with the species.

 

In that respect any relation to the current albino dragon in cave is irrelevant.

 

For reference here is the general mutation list (off the top of my head):

 

Albinism: Total pigment loss of skin, feathers, fur, eyes, etc

Leucism: Pigment loss but not total. Some leucistic animals are entirely white but the eyes, feet, toes etc are not affected.

Xanthism: Excess of yellow pigment.

Erythrism: Excess of red pigment.

Axanthism: Lack of yellow pigment (makes green things appear blue).

Schizochorism: Lack of pigment (any kind).

 

Edited by Ashywolf

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There's always a lot of talk about getting eggs to move faster in the biomes. Especially commons. Dragons that have alt forms, always move pretty quick. While there's been discussion about shinies and ascension, what about albinism? Basically, a white version of the common. Say, maybe a 5-10% chance of hatching albino. Having a potentially new color to get via commons would get all of them snatched up more often. Probably, 2 or 3 commons from each biome would be enough to keep things moving as I know we can't recolor all of them.

Now this idea, I love. I love love looove Albino creatures, and it would be quite a nice, realistic turn in terms of the genetics of DC's dragons :3

 

//lurks in the thread

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I love the idea of albinos! biggrin.gif This seems like a great idea, aside from the already stated problem with the getting the spriters permission. xd.png

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