Albinism and other color variations

[Vhale]

There's always a lot of talk about getting eggs to move faster in the biomes. Especially commons. Dragons that have alt forms, always move pretty quick. While there's been discussion about shinies and ascension, what about albinism and other color variations? Basically, a white/light/dark/greener/redder/bluer/spotted/piebald/other recolored version of the common. Say, maybe a 5-10% chance of hatching albino alt. Having a potentially new color to get via commons would get all of them snatched up more often. Probably, 2 or 3 commons from each biome would be enough to keep things moving as I know we can't recolor all of them, because some artists would not want any of their sprites recolored.

 

In general, you can find several kinds of mutations in animals:

- mutations lowering the amount of pigment produced (either for one pigment or all pigments of the animal) => If the color is made up of two pigments - like green = blue + yellow - and one color is missing - like blue, in this case - the result is a yellow animal.

- mutations increasing the amount of pigment produced (either one pigment, or all pigments)

- mutations affecting the distribution of pigment (piebald - spotted, banded)

- mutations affecting the pattern on an animal (larger markings, smaller markings, more markings, missing markings, additional markings...)

- mutations affecting the hue of color produced (changing grey/black to brown, interchanging yellow, orange, brown and red, exchanging magenta, purple or purplish-blue

- some of these mutations can also affect only part of the animal - like wings only albinism, head only melanism, belly only , back only...

 

To make a long story short: Even if we base dragon recolors on real life mutations, it's safe to assume that pretty much any kind of recolor works - as long as the artists give their okay.

 

New edits via olympe :3

Edited November 7, 2012 by Vhale

[BlueSkyy]

Slight change to your idea: Melanistic or Leucistic. We already have an Albino species.

[ParticleSoup]

Slight change to your idea: Melanistic or Leucistic. We already have an Albino species.

i dont think that would be an issue, honestly.

 

 

what WOULD be issue is that all of the dragons' artists would have to approve, and either give permission or recolor their sprites themselves. many artists have left DC. and this is where the main problem lies

[JOTB]

A number of artists have also just rejected the idea of alternate colored sprites if I remember correctly?

[Completely Different]

While its a good idea, it also bears a lot of similarity for the 'shiny' project a while back....which didn't really end well. I think it would be a good way to move eggs, though. I think that if we focused on species whose artists were all still here to give permission (and they did give permission) it would be an interesting idea, though.

[Dr. Paine]

I've got to say, there's a part of me that supports this... the Flamingo was originally supposed to have a white alternate, if the spriters would agree to let it change, I'd be really happy

 

Then there's the little voice that says not enough spriters would give permission and it'd probably just manage to enrage people

[Obscure_Trash]

If there's meant to be some color variation, I'm fine with that. I don't, however, like shinies or albinos or etc. o3o

[Dolphinsong]

I was against the Shiny project years ago and am against any alteration of colores for the ingame sprites just to make current cave blockers move faster than they are. We'll always have cave blockers and they always change as to which ones are the caveblockers as time passes.

[Sundew]

Maybe for the most common dragons, two or three species, but I'd prefer if the colors stayed mostly the same.

[JOTB]

Can't really see this happening anyway, a large number of people on the site abhor the idea of throwing anything with the possibility of randomly changing a dragon's appearance into the mix (cause it would mess up the lineages.)

[~!~]

This idea is basically to give every dragon a color morph or an alt. As it stands, color morphs help with getting eggs out of the cave faster, but not helping them get out of the AP. Alts are the other way around. I would expect that adding one or the other to a breed would make it more desirable, or at least more likely to be picked up from the AP or the cave.

 

However, if color morphs were a feature for every breed, I think we would eventually come back to the same situation we have now, with all common breeds at equal desirability, controlling for other factors like BSAs.

 

That said, I would prefer the idea of having a color morph or alt specific to each breed, rather than a certain condition that affects all breeds.

Edited November 14, 2011 by ~!~

[Dolphinsong]

Do remember, alts, espically color edits, equal a TON of additional work for spriters. And then all current completed and requests will have to make an alt/second colored version, just to keep up with the changes. Again, A LOT of work. No thanks.

[~!~]

Do remember, alts, espically color edits, equal a TON of additional work for spriters. And then all current completed and requests will have to make an alt/second colored version, just to keep up with the changes. Again, A LOT of work. No thanks.

I don't get this. Don't the artists play this game too? Aren't the artists just as affected by cave blocking as the rest of us? Artists are the only ones with the power to make the breeds they designed more desirable and not blockers. Heck, if I were an artist and on of my dragons was a blocker, I'd be the first to suggest that they get an alt or a BSA or anything to make them less of a nuisance, and if I weren't willing to put the time/effort into it, I certainly wouldn't bar other people from doing so. I wouldn't want to spend my egg slots clearing my dragon from the cave any more than I would somebody else's.

[Dolphinsong]

There is tons of work involved in making an alt or at least an alternet color. And just because I'm an artist DOESN'T mean I have to support changing sprites just because of cave blockers.

 

Cave blockers constantly change. I remember back two years ago, the cave blockers one month were pinks, another month it was greens, two weeks later it was water! It constantly changes.

 

Cave blockers is mostly because of ratios and because no one is intrested in them. Having alts or another rare coloring will not change that except for those intrested in that kind of thing.

 

We don't like extra work just because of cave blockers. Use BSAs instead of making us do more art to get those eggs moving. Pinks STOPPED being cave blockers due to their influence BSA, Greens are less of a cave blocker now because of Earthquake and Geos. Not because they had an alt made, not because there is a rare coloring of them.

[tjekan]

Why would all artists "have" to make recolors of their dragons just because some artists did? We already have some dragons with alts and different color phases, and that doesn't force the hand of other artists to do the same thing just to "keep up." I don't see any reason why this prroposal would have that effect if other alts and color variations do not.

 

The OP was just suggesting an albino recolor of *some* dragon sprites, not all. That wouldn't be tantamount to making all artists take part in it.

 

(Also, isn't it true that recoloring a sprite takes much less time than creating a new one? Just by reading the sprite creation threads, some artists seem able to whip up multiple new recolors within an hour or two of feedback, whereas actually drawing a sprite seems to take much longer. Of course, no one has a right to *force* artists to do even an hour or two of work against their will, but it doesn't seem like a horribly unreasonable thing to politely ask whether anyone might be interested in doing... nor is it inherently more time-consuming than BSA's. I suspect TJ spent much more time coding Teleport than would be spent recoloring a sprite, yet nobody thought it was unreasonable to request it...)

[Stromboli]

Alt ALL the commons?

 

I'd rather not. I don't mind dragons that come with an alt form, but having an alt form applied to any or all of the dragons would just drive me up the wall trying to collect them all.

[Dolphinsong]

Unless the dragon was orginally created to have an alt of some kind (even if its a recolor) then those that do not have such an alt should remain as such. If all breeds (even if its just the commons) have alts, whats the point in alts? Alts should not be something everyone and their grandmother has. And those that whip up new colors in a spawn of hours is because they had already figured which hues of those colors would work best, often times creating said recolors when they first started shading and didn't post those colors at that time.

[kerrikins]

I'd like this idea of the spriters were simply approached politely (maybe by a mod or someone with tact and respect) and asked if they want to participate. If they do, great. If they don't, then great. No artist should have to redo their work, but I don't think the idea needs to be completely squashed just because some might not want to. If NONE of the artists want to, well. That's a different scenario.

[Dolphinsong]

Just remember, there are some dragons out there that belong to multipul artists. If one of the artists don't agree... *shrugs*

[Lythiaren]

I see some people in here suggesting that only the blockers should get this kind of alt because then they wouldn't be blockers anymore. But you know what will happen once the current blockers aren't blocking anymore?

 

Something else will block instead. What then? Alt those too? What happens when everything has an alt? Something else will factor in and make something block the cave somehow.

 

Available scroll space is always at a premium. If people suddenly moved toward grabbing certain things then something else must be left behind. So no, I don't think this will really help with the blocking situation. The only real way to stop blockage is for people to breed less and be less picky about what CBs they pick up, because that method would generate fewer eggs and get more eggs into those precious slots. But that requires dictating gameplay and changing how everyone thinks, so no one is fond of that idea.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Lythiaren

[~!~]

I disagree with the idea that there will always be blockers. There have been times in the cave when no eggs sat around for minutes on end without being grabbed. In such times, drops went by quickly, at least within fifteen minutes. That's what happens with no breeds sitting in the AP to block the cave, and no breeds blocking in the cave itself, when every breed is desirable enough. It's happened before--it's not crazy talk to suggest that it might happen again.

[lizardtail]

i know nothing of coding, or any of the sites basic workings. but is there a way for TJ to know which breeds are in the cave for the longest time? or which breeds are most common during drops? perhaps the top five could have albinos/melanistics (provided the artists, if available, give permission.) but as the top five change, so does the albinsm/melanisticics?

 

so, for example (using three cuz im lazy~) if the top three blockers according to cave stats are balloons, greens, and canopies, then only they have the possibility of hatching albino/melanistic. but if the top three become stones, greens, and waters, then they are now the only dragons with the possibility?

 

RP view: an over-populated species also has more birth defects. less of a species would be less defects. (lol, this is correct? D:)

 

sprites: that way, we dont have to change all the sprites all at once. we can do a few at a time, so spriters wont be rushed to alt ALL the sprites! they can do a few breeds here, a few breeds there...and eventually, we'll have most of them.

[Lythiaren]

I disagree with the idea that there will always be blockers.  There have been times in the cave when no eggs sat around for minutes on end without being grabbed.  In such times, drops went by quickly, at least within fifteen minutes.  That's what happens with no breeds sitting in the AP to block the cave, and no breeds blocking in the cave itself, when every breed is desirable enough.  It's happened before--it's not crazy talk to suggest that it might happen again.

But egg generation is outpacing the growth in egg slots available for them. There are too many eggs and not enough people willing to pick them up. Since breeding chances dropped people have complained endlessly; they don't want to pick up CB blockers. They want eggs of very specific breeds and lines. Since people don't seem keen on tuning down the CB generation either, this has led to the continued snowballing of the problem and this katamari doesn't seem to be stopping any time soon.

 

I mean I remember when the drops lasted all of 30 seconds and the AP was perpetually empty, but that's nowhere near comparable to the current situation. That level of demand vs. supply will never be seen again.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Lythiaren

[~!~]

But egg generation is outpacing the growth in egg slots available for them.  There are too many eggs and not enough people willing to pick them up.  Since breeding chances dropped people have complained endlessly; they don't want to pick up CB blockers.  They want eggs of very specific breeds and lines.  Since people don't seem keen on tuning down the CB generation either, this has led to the continued snowballing of the problem and this katamari doesn't seem to be stopping any time soon.

 

I mean I remember when the drops lasted all of 30 seconds and the AP was perpetually empty, but that's nowhere near comparable to the current situation.  That level of demand vs. supply will never be seen again.

On one side, we've got people saying it's too hard to get eggs. On the other side, people are saying it's too easy. Something's got to give, I think. I proposed a while back that egg population be based on how long an egg sits in the cave, which imho is a great solution because it's self-correcting. There have been other solutions proposed that all revolve around decreasing the populations of dragons that are in lower demand, and when they're not being shot down because people can't conceive of exceptions for metallics and other rares, they're being shot down because apparently that would be too much work for TJ to put in to make the game playable. (The exception, of course, being the six or so people who think the game is just right and don't want to see it changed at all.)

 

EDIT: I forgot to say my actual point...

 

My point is that we have to either appease one side or the other--sitting in the middle won't solve any problems. And I think that appeasing those who think blockers are a bigger problem than the breeding drought would cause fewer problems for those afflicted by the blight in breeding than the other way around.

Edited November 14, 2011 by ~!~

[Vhale]

Thread derailment, it happens :3

 

As per the original post, I mentioned just a couple species per biome because the whole, we won't get permission thing gets done to death. If this was a 20 page thread, we'd have that crop up 5 times per page o.O. Got it, know it. Rather than rehash what we can't do, I'd rather see what we can.

 

Judging by the desert biome, having a few very desireable breeds in one biome does a good job at making it move along. So, I think it is possible to tweak cave blockers not by adding something to all breeds, but by tweaking a few in each one.

 

I've seen some very impressive lineages with breeds such as Tan ridgewings. So, I think having a few more alts about, not so rare as black alts, gives the breeders something fun to tinker with. Albinism was picked cause most people know what it is. White dragons are extremely popular for lineages. They work well and in most cases, look nice.

 

Even if none of the current dragons had the addition, I think it would be a nice thing for the site to think about for future ones.