Obesity crisis

[SPQR]

LOL where? Seriously, tell me where you see this sort of attitude of thin being bad being CONSTANTLY being shoved down our throats. Because what I see is constant picking at Oprah's and Rosie O'Donnell's weight, drama over Adele not being stick-then, people trashing Kelly Clarkson because she's not the skinny little girl she used to be, and people like

being turned away from American Idol despite having a fantastic voice because she's skinny (the judge's little charade there with the "big girls rock" shirt doesn't fool me).

I'm serious. Look at all the self-esteem ad campaigns, TV shows, websites, etc. I'm not saying that 'skinny is evil' is being CONSTANTLY shoved down our throats. But it's starting to be. Reminds me of this comic.

 

I truly support the whole self-esteem, no-dieting, anorexia-is-evil thing that's going on. But I really wish that people realize that some people are just naturally thin.

[skinst]

I don't understand how people can say that fast food is cheap. Here at least in Australia, it's anything but.

 

As someone who does all the grocery shopping in my household, a weeks worth of food costs about $80. This is healthy food for breakfast (yogurt, toast, cereal, either of the three) lunch (salad, noodles, leftovers from dinner) and dinner (side of salad, lean cut of meat and some form of pastry, pasta or potato) for seven days, plus snacks like biscuits and such.

 

A meal like the above costs up to $15 if I were to go a fast food outlet PER MEAL. That hardly seems cheaper to me.

 

People who whine about costs associated with healthy eating probably cannot be bothered to cook every day rather than can't afford it. In my opinion, there is no excuse for bad eating habits except for laziness, lack of knowledge of how to cook or inability to cook for whatever reason.

[SPQR]

Unfortunately, there are far too many people with far too much money invested in the current food market for this to be feasible. I'm not entirely sure how recent it was, but there was a bill passed (S.510) that allows greater control by the FDA in food production, to the point that the smaller farms that are producing the healthier, organic, whole, etc. foods are unable to maintain.

 

There have literally been small farms who sell to local grocers and in farmers' markets who have been shut down and had all of their assets seized by the FDA because they weren't up to the new FDA regulations, or they didn't have all of the new paperwork filled out in time, etc.

 

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

 

A bit of food for thought, in regards to "healthy food". Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I truly feel that the people in charge of our food choices really have other things on their minds besides our health.

Wholeheartedly agree with you. In the end, it's all about profit, isn't it?

[auria]

@SPQR: Yes, but there is still a significantly larger group of people who will fat-shame people who are not as skinny as you. Our society amplifies "thin-ness" as attractiveness, and then turns around and demonizes the people who are naturally thin because they assume that no one can be that way without an eating disorder. Just like the general population doesn't believe in fat people being healthy. Even so, there is a wider spread/more popular stigma attached to being fat than there is to being skinny. I think that's the point that AngelKitty was trying to make, and she is more than welcome to correct me if I am completely off-base, lol.

 

@RheaZen: You mean the trust-fund Earth mothers who can afford to have all of their clothes made from hand-woven organic hemp, buy a solely ethanol vehicle or live in a city where they can ride a bike everywhere, and can afford to pay $9.99 a pound for hand-fed organic beef? With the yoga class memberships that cost more than my tuition, and always look like they stepped out of a GreenGoddess magazine? Because if I were in the healthy foods business, I'd totally be marketing to them lol they're spending mommy and daddy's money on it, so they don't care what it costs.

 

@Skinst: I'm not sure where RheaZen is from, but here in America, if you don't live in a bigger city with a good farmer's market/produce market/etc, buying healthy food can be extremely expensive. I cook fairly often, but it costs more overall if I'm not just buying chemical-filled pseudo-food, because that's what's the easiest to come by in a typical American grocery store (at least where I'm at, it may be different elsewhere).

[SPQR]

@SPQR: Yes, but there is still a significantly larger group of people who will fat-shame people who are not as skinny as you. Our society amplifies "thin-ness" as attractiveness, and then turns around and demonizes the people who are naturally thin because they assume that no one can be that way without an eating disorder. Just like the general population doesn't believe in fat people being healthy. Even so, there is a wider spread/more popular stigma attached to being fat than there is to being skinny. I think that's the point that AngelKitty was trying to make, and she is more than welcome to correct me if I am completely off-base, lol.

Yep.

 

What I'm basically trying to say is that a healthy weight is the best weight, although neither extreme should be judged about it. After all, it's not your problem if someone is too fat/skinny.

[skinst]

I used to live in a capital city. I purchased all my food from the local supermarket, while on a pension, while unemployed, on that budget. There's no way I would have afforded to eat if I brought fast food everyday.

 

I don't know what it's like in America but yeah, in Australia, in my opinion, unless you're physically, medically or completely unable to cook or have someone to cook for you, then there's no excuse.

[AngelKitty]

Even so, there is a wider spread/more popular stigma attached to being fat than there is to being skinny. I think that's the point that AngelKitty was trying to make, and she is more than welcome to correct me if I am completely off-base, lol.

Lol yep, that's exactly what I was trying to say, put in a way that makes a lot more sense.

 

I don't know what it's like in America but yeah, in Australia, in my opinion, unless you're physically, medically or completely unable to cook or have someone to cook for you, then there's no excuse.

 

Over here, fast food is fairly cheap, depending on what you order. Normally, the stuff that's got 1,200+ calories in it will be more expensive, but a lot of places still have dollar menus and $3 triple-cheeseburgers and other such things. Even so, that stuff isn't normally calorie-laden and you actually need to order a lot of it for it to add up to massive obesity. </used to work at McDonald's and remembers general calorie counts of dollar menu items>

 

So yeah, a good portion of it is just not wanting to cook, as it often is cheaper to just buy stuff at the grocery store, even if it's not really healthy. I can spend about six to eight bucks on ground turkey, buns, and rice-a-roni and have enough food to last me several meals.

 

Also I apologize if my posts are rambly and stupid, it's late over here.

Edited October 16, 2011 by AngelKitty

[auria]

Ahhhh...I see.

 

Like I said, it may be different in bigger, more metropolitan areas, but I live in a more sub-rural (mostly cattle farms and little towns/teeny cities) area. There's a few farmer's markets around, but they're sporadic.

 

It's often cheaper to go to McDonalds/Wendy's/Taco Bell/etc and order a couple things from a value menu than it is to go buy the meat, sides, and so on in a grocery store, plus the electricity/gas for the stove, plus cooling the house back down in the summer, refrigerating the leftovers...and so on.

 

Granted, there are ways around this, like stocking up on sale items, pre-cooking certain things once or twice a week, and cooking later in the day in the summer, but a lot of people I know don't have that kind of time or initiative.

 

I don't know if there's something that resembles a dollar store in Australia, but it's like a mini-grocery/all purpose store with a lot of prepackaged foods and cheap knockoffs of clothes/detergents/housewares/toiletries, and for a lot of people around here that's where they do a lot of their basic shopping, going then to Wal-mart for the meat/vegetables, which are of questionable quality.

Or they skip the dollar store and go straight to wal-mart, which is basically just a big box store that carries every convenience item EVER pretty much, but a lot of their food isn't exactly what I'd call wholesome. A lot of their products buy wholly into the American ideal of food that comes pre-made, and will last forever in your refrigerator or pantry.

 

 

ETA: @AngelKitty: I've spent too much time fluffing out english papers to fill my word counts, because I can reword just about anything (though whether it makes sense afterwords can be debatable )

Edited October 16, 2011 by auria

[skinst]

Oh, I completely understand that things are not the same in other countries. It's too bad things aren't better in America.

 

There are dollar stores and whatnot here too, but I'd only ever buy instant noodles and such for lunch and whatnot. You can't really buy dinner items there except sauces and such, and even then it'd cost the same as fresh food.

Edited October 16, 2011 by skinst

[auria]

As a country, I feel we have a lot of potential, just very poor execution on a lot of counts, which is unfortunate. Being a mostly capitalist country, with a long history of being such, means that money drives a lot of what goes on.

 

The people who own the pharmaceutical companies own the healthcare, Monsanto and a few others own most of the big factory farms and can pay the FDA or the government to work things in their favor, Wall Street companies answer to their richest investors, and the biggest companies influence the decisions of the politicians in Washington.

 

If we're being fed terrible quality food, we go to the doctor, who tells us to eat different terrible food and take a pill, which sends us back, and it's one big vicious cycle. Until money isn't the primary objective, nothing will change. Even if it's not an obesity epidemic in 20 years, it'll be some other food-based or appearance-based 'health' problem.

 

But alas, for now, I need to sleep. I shall see you all tomorrow, I'm sure...I just don't know if I'll be as talkative, as this is kind of a first for me >>

 

 

ETA: That's cool, I know even in other parts of the U.S. they don't even have dollar stores, so I didn't know if they'd have them elsewhere. The one's in Northeast Tennessee have pretty much everything but fresh-type dinner stuff, though they do carry some lunchmeats and eggs and milk and the like.

Edited October 16, 2011 by auria

[elderberrysyrup]

The obesity crisis is actually not as bad as people think it is. The main reason for this idea of a crisis is both of the false idea BMI was a reliable way to tell how fat a person is, and that healthy fat percentages were given lower standards as to what is 'healthy'. For example, I remember reading about a study in which they said that the 'normal' fat percentage is 25% (or so) when they checked the fat percentage internationally, it was 30-35% in women whose weight is considered normal in their countries. Instead of changing their definition of normal fat percentage, they said the whole world was fat.

[LascielsShadow]

 

I truly support the whole self-esteem, no-dieting, anorexia-is-evil thing that's going on. But I really wish that people realize that some people are just naturally thin.

Word. And I really wish that some people would realise that some people are naturally NOT. Seriously, it's depressing either way and, as a country we need to stop it. Both are not actually complained about/remarked on out of concern for the most part, they're talke about because EWWWW, you don't look like X, you should fix that RIGHT NOW.

 

 

Speaking of food, there's this problem we have inn some areas in the US, though I know it happens in other places as well: food deserts. I live in one. We used to have a grocery store a few blocks away, but it closed several years ago and we were left with nothing. There's now a program that lets people here order from a grocery store a couple miles away and have it delivered to the local library or elementary school because a good number of people in the area wouldn't be doing much shopping otherwise. It's pretty hard to get healthy foods and vegetable when you have no place to buy them and not a hell of a lot of money to spend on getting there and back AND buying the food. (And can I just say how damn sick it it when it can actually be cheaper to buy ****ty food than something that's good for you?)

Edited October 16, 2011 by LascielsShadow

[solaflar3]

Organic food is more than processed food, at least in my area...I don't know. But it's easier for someone to grab a burger when they're busy and can't get home to cook, and healthy snacks aren't people's first choice.

 

It's personal responsibility & our resources.

 

@RheaZen

 

 

 

Imho BMI is a decent guideline, if you feel healthy but your BMI isn't on target, whatever. My brain just might work differently from everyone elses...

I'm not talking about organic food. Just regular fresh meats and veg. Organic food is expensive but just cooking with regular non organic fresh veg and meats will be cheaper and far healthier than a fast food burger and fries.

 

@ skinst

I don't understand how people can say that fast food is cheap. Here at least in Australia, it's anything but.

 

I agree. We don't have fast food much, it is usually reserved for treats such as on the kids birthdays. Last time we went as a family to Burger King was on my son's birthday, BK was his choice. For the four of us the cost was around £20, that isn't cheap by a long shot. I could buy food to last a few days, all meals, for £20.

[Kai]

The problem is that BMI doesn't take into account muscle versus fat or your body type or anything else. It's a very simple calculation and is kind of like things like the ideal gas law in science. Not really useful for reality. =X

 

Why BMI is a Crock (link broken for some bad words, especially in the comments): shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2007/09/why-bmi-is-crock-in-pictures.html

 

The flickr is also pretty interesting.

It doesn't have to. Almost nobody can use the excuse that muscle is making them overweight according to BMI. The most heavily (practically) muscled people around, the professional athletes, all have perfect BMIs, even the ones that are a little chunky like Serena Williams. Unless you're a bodybuilder, overweight BMI almost always means overweight.

[elderberrysyrup]

It doesn't have to. Almost nobody can use the excuse that muscle is making them overweight according to BMI. The most heavily (practically) muscled people around, the professional athletes, all have perfect BMIs, even the ones that are a little chunky like Serena Williams. Unless you're a bodybuilder, overweight BMI almost always means overweight.

Top 10 reasons BMI is bogus

 

More BMI stuff

 

ohai

 

 

[Obscure_Trash]

It doesn't have to. Almost nobody can use the excuse that muscle is making them overweight according to BMI. The most heavily (practically) muscled people around, the professional athletes, all have perfect BMIs, even the ones that are a little chunky like Serena Williams. Unless you're a bodybuilder, overweight BMI almost always means overweight.

Proof pl0x.

 

Even Fox

Some Olympic Competitors

Some Random Celebs

Be like Justin Bieber

+ the article I already posted + the flickr it links too

 

In most cases, BMI isn't even a good general guide.

[auria]

The BMI is like unicorns and fairies, so to speak...

 

 

My cousin Ryan was classified as 'obese' by a physician because he was 5ft 9in and weighed 250lbs, but when they measured his percent body fat, it was only at 4% because he spent so much time doing Army Physical Training with the recruiters before going to basic training, and spent the rest of his time training for the cross-country team.

 

For some, yes, the BMI works. But for others, it's a way for medical staff to justify not conducting proper testing for health conditions because the conditions can be explained away by, "oh, you just need to lose weight".

 

Until we as a country find a better way to measure "obesity: an abnormal accumulation of body fat, usually 20% or more over an individual's ideal body weight" by redefining what is the ideal accumulation of body fat, we're going to stay "obese".

[spyro76]

I have a personal BMI story as well. I have a couple of friends (identical twins) who happen to be very short and very muscular. They're both at about 2% body fat (which is considered to be athletic, on another scale I don't like to use, because it's another generalization), but they fall under severely overweight on the BMI charts, and at times (during baseball season when they're training hard) they're considered to be obese on the scale. It's a terrible scale.

 

I've gone from being "acceptable" on the BMI scale to underweight. My doctor told me that I needed to lose a little bit of weight when it said I was within an acceptable range. Now I'm considered underweight, but I'm really not. I've got roughly 2.5% body fat, which is considered to be athletic (once again on a scale I don't like to use, but for the sake of argument...). I'm definitely not underweight and I could drop a couple more pounds without getting into underweight, but I'm close.

 

There are football players in my class who are twice as heavy as I am, and their percent body fat "ratings" are nearly the same as mine. Muscle makes an enormous difference in the BMI ratings, because most of those football players fall under obese.

[Princess Artemis]

One thing that can be done is to fix the 'scale' so a sudden readjustment of BMI doesn't render hundreds of thousands of perfectly healthy people "overweight" overnight. It's a pretty old scale to use in a human population that is constantly growing taller.

 

Nice way to create a crisis though.

 

Anyhow, IMHO, if Americans and those starting to eat our horrid diet would eat more good fat, a whole lot less processed stuff, and stopped being so culturally obsessed with skinny to the point that very young people are destroying their metabolism with diets so early, I think we'd be better off.

 

Personally, I'm more concerned that people in the US and UK get scurvy in this day and age.

[Obscure_Trash]

That loathing of ourselves and our fellow people based on girth is far more toxic than any obesity "crisis" we're facing.

Yeah, the fat hate is definitely insane. If I can find it, I had a good blog link for a 'fat chick' who is healthy but was looked down upon by her doctor, who was absolutely shocked she could be fat and healthy.

 

Something else I found while looking for the post I wanted:

#thingsfatpeoplearetold red3.blogspot.com/2011/04/thingsfatpeoplearetold-first-24-hours.html (linked for language)

[auria]

Extra Wiggle Room

 

Diet Pulpit

 

Axis of Fat

 

Dances with Fat, the blog with the lady you might just be talking about

 

 

Most of these have stories from/for people who are medically obese, but are by all other counts healthy.

[RuthlessWolves]

My father recently rented an apartment in Manhattan, and says that he has lost weight ever since he began walking about. Driving in that area is too much of a hassle for him.

[sir_horsey_XIX]

Oh, BMI is so terrible at measuring how overweight one is. I tried it when I was 12. I was visibly skinny, ate good ol' rice, beans, and chicken most of the time and regularly exercised... It said I was 2lbs overweight.

While I could lose 5lbs or so now, I'm never going to get back to the level of skinny I was when I was 12. I wish I could say I was living a healthier lifestyle, but all the processed garbage and overeating still makes its way to me even though I do moderately diet (eating more veggies, more water, less soda, less meat, etc) and get some form of exercise most days.

Life as a U.S. citizen places so many roadblocks to a healthy diet. Potato chips can be purchased at $2 for a good-sized bag, but you get about half as much in graham crackers for the same. Soda costs less than half what bottled water costs, too. And while rice and beans with corn costs less than fast food, nobody is encouraging us to eat it. You would think the government would want its people to live longer and produce more and thus get the word out to poor people that they can eat food that's cheap, tasty and healthful with a little work and creativity, but instead, they let political (lobbyist, I think) organizations tell you to eat more pork and beef on the TV. It doesn't help that kids are placed in front of TVs and videogames at young ages, thus stifling imagination and a desire for physical games later in life.

 

...That's my rant for now. :3

[AngelKitty]

Yeah, the fat hate is definitely insane. If I can find it, I had a good blog link for a 'fat chick' who is healthy but was looked down upon by her doctor, who was absolutely shocked she could be fat and healthy.

 

Something else I found while looking for the post I wanted:

#thingsfatpeoplearetold red3.blogspot.com/2011/04/thingsfatpeoplearetold-first-24-hours.html (linked for language)

 

Those comments make me incredibly sad. ._. How can police officers and doctors, of all people, say stuff as cruel as some of the things posted on there? I feel fortunate that I've never really encountered this sort of vitriol, but I've never really been what most people would consider to be fat, either.

 

And I really wish that some people would realise that some people are naturally NOT. Seriously, it's depressing either way and, as a country we need to stop it.

 

Fun fact: back when I was an undergrad, I used to go to the gym every day, eat less than 1,400 calories a day, and do intense exercise for at least an hour, usually followed by weight training. I never dropped below a size 14, with a 36 inch waist, despite burning over a thousand calories per workout and thus burning at least 2,000 calories a day. Probably more. The largest I've ever been is an 18; smallest I've ever been is a 14. I'm currently a 16. So yeah, I can work out all I want, I'll never be skinny. I got some wonderfully persistent fat genes from both sides of the family.

[Obscure_Trash]

Extra Wiggle Room

 

Diet Pulpit

 

Axis of Fat

 

Dances with Fat, the blog with the lady you might just be talking about

 

 

Most of these have stories from/for people who are medically obese, but are by all other counts healthy.

Nope, none of those were the ones I had in mind, but thanks for the links!

 

Those comments make me incredibly sad. ._. How can police officers and doctors, of all people, say stuff as cruel as some of the things posted on there? I feel fortunate that I've never really encountered this sort of vitriol, but I've never really been what most people would consider to be fat, either.

 

And those weren't even all of them.

I'll admit I cried a bit. TW: "Why would anyone want to rape you?" Just...how can you hold a job? D: