Fake Low Gen Tinsels

[TLOSpyrogirl]

I don't care. A tinsel is a tinsel. It's hard to get them (gold tinsels at least) even with messy lineages. And I'm not willing to give everything I have just to get a tinsel that has a good lineage I won't even look at, fake or real.

[Stromboli]

I'd rather have a real tinsel descended from one of the prizes than a faker. After all, the dragons have dates on them, so it's easy to tell. tinsels are so valuable, I don't see the point in killing them.

Dunno about how valuable all tinsels are. I can't manage to trade this gal's children for anything. Or this guy's. I'm keeping them alive because they were gifts. But I definitely see a point to killing their kids if it means I get to make a PB Tinsel line.

[Saloiq]

Dunno about how valuable all tinsels are. I can't manage to trade this gal's children for anything. Or this guy's.

Yup. Most people will only accept perfect stairs/spirals now, and even then only Tinsels from "uncommon" lines. :<

[StormWizard212]

I think there are always going to be people that'll take tinsels whatever they are. Especially people who are new to the cave and don't have any yet. I can see the benefit in these "fake" low gens, but I still wouldn't want to have one traded to me without my knowing.

 

I hope it hasn't happened... I'll have to go and check now.

Edited October 30, 2011 by StormWizard212

[Ytak]

I admit that, for myself, I'm planning on making a fake line. I have a tinsel that refused her intended mate (going to have to breed a new one) and I've decided that she'll do well for a fake line. Just for myself. I probably won't offer any of the resulting eggs for trades or gifts. I won't kill of any dragons that are part of lineages or special projects, that would not be nice.

[Catlover3288]

I don't mind fake tinsels, but I would much rather prefer a non fake instead, because then you could try to collect all of the originals descendants instead of having a gravestone.

[JaneMcAsh]

There are 31 CB tinsels and all the owners have at least 10 people on their lists, some have many many more.

EDIT: apart from those who don't want contact

... and one of the CB Silver Tinsels is on a burned scroll...

 

On topic: I currently have a messy-lineaged Silver Tinsel that is doomed to die AFTER breeding me some shiny eggs for the Rosebud - Tinsel Tombstone lineage.

Edited November 10, 2011 by JaneMcAsh

[RMMC]

I stay away from "fake" low gens. The only thing I'd ever do with one is freeze it or turn it into a Vampire.

[libby2999]

A fake is a fake and all it does is DE-value the real low-gens around. Someone could even fake up a CB - then of what value are the real ones? The people winning the REAL CB Tinsels earned them - those who fake low-gens or ersatz CB's did not.

but they have toombstones so theyre not fake. Its easie to spot them as bad. And really, I am planning on doing that accualy. If they do want to know who the orginal tinsel was I can just tell them. No biggy as sometimes the just do it for looks.

[Stromboli]

I think my Tinsels know I want to make their children into tombstone babies. My other Tinsels produce almost nothing BUT tinsels. These guys won't give me ANYTHING. Stinkers. >.>

[ceeceeblack]

I have one on my scroll. It's the only gold tinsel I have. I traded for it but was under the impression I was receiving an egg with a true lineage (no tombstones). I was appreciative in the fact that I received a gold tinsel, but sad because I cannot breed and gift this now. I don't think too many people want a fake low gen.

 

I, personally, wouldn't make an offer for an egg with tombstones starting the linage, nor would I offer one to anyone in a trade. Unless of course they wanted it just to have one on their scroll. Then they could have it without me expecting anything in return.

[Draco Knight]

I currently have two Tinsels. One a generous gift with a nice stairstep lineage, one with a kinda all over the place lineage. Both have sentimental value so they are spared the knife.

 

I do intend to breed them, keep their tinsel children, breed their children, keep tinsels from those, then kill their children.

 

I certainly won't offer their offspring as legit low gens, I will outright say they are 'fake' low gen. I'd trade something nice for a 'fake' low gen tinsel, certainly not as nice as I would trade for a 'legit' but still, something good.

 

What I mean to say is, I don't have a problem at all with 'fake' low gen tinsels. It's incredibly easy to check out a dragon's lineage, so it's not like anyone is getting duped into trading for 'fakes' like they were actually 'legit.'

[drabrugon]

While reading this thread I wondered about the opinion of some users that "fake"-tinsels have no value or are even considered cheating. But how can this be seen as cheating others? Everybody knows the meaning of a tombstone and everybody can view the lineage of a dragon that is offered and then decide if it is worth a trade. Fake-Tinsels have nothing to do with cheating.

 

Like I can take from the trading threads and the offers I receive for the Tinsels I am offering the value of Tinsels is breaking down rapidly. Tinsel higher than 4th or 5th gen especially if they are from common lineages are worth only a common hatchie, often they aren't even tradeable anymore. There are only 31 starter-tinsels in the game and after a 3/4 year there are a lot of messy lineages around already nobody likes. I think killing to keep lineages short is not a bad thing. And I have seen a few amazing Tinsels from "fake"-lineages, some of them are a lot of work and they look way better than a 210th inbred messy Tinsel. I do not want to imagine how the lineages of Tinsels will look in a year or two if nobody here thinks about killing long lineaged tinsels.

Edited November 10, 2011 by drabrugon

[onkloudnyne]

I only have one tinsel. I have an IOU out to someone for the first silver tinsel offspring and then I plan on gifting the rest of the silver tinsel offspring to people that don't have any. I would be very upset if I came online one day to find that any of its ancestors had been killed off because I wouldn't feel right gifting the offspring anymore with tombstones in the lineage.

[WraithZephyr]

While reading this thread I wondered about the opinion of some users that "fake"-tinsels have no value or are even considered cheating. But how can this be seen as cheating others? Everybody knows the meaning of a tombstone and everybody can view the lineage of a dragon that is offered and then decide if it is worth a trade. Fake-Tinsels have nothing to do with cheating.

 

Like I can take from the trading threads and the offers I receive for the Tinsels I am offering the value of Tinsels is breaking down rapidly. Tinsel higher than 4th or 5th gen especially if they are from common lineages are worth only a common hatchie, often they aren't even tradeable anymore. There are only 31 starter-tinsels in the game and after a 3/4 year there are a lot of messy lineages around already nobody likes. I think killing to keep lineages short is not a bad thing. And I have seen a few amazing Tinsels from "fake"-lineages, some of them are a lot of work and they look way better than a 210th inbred messy Tinsel. I do not want to imagine how the lineages of Tinsels will look in a year or two if nobody here thinks about killing long lineaged tinsels.

Not everyone playing the game knows what a tombstone represents or how they work. Many new/newish players ASSUME that the "tombstone" was an actual CB Tinsel and get all freaked out that someone would kill something so valuable. They don't realize the lineage of a dead dragon disappears or that the original CB tinsels are in fact still alive...so from that point of view it would be seen as misleading but that is due to their ignorance not that the trader is being dishonest or anything. The only way it could be seen as "cheating" is if the person trading the tinsel deliberately claimed they owned the CB original and killed it.. but I have never seen anyone do that.

 

As for the value of tinsels... yeah some people will happily trade away a low/mid gen tinsel for next to nothing - doesn't mean the tinsel is being undervalued.. just that the person likely did not want the crown jewels as payment for it. Some people will go in the opposite direction ask for outrageous impossible offers for a tinsel.. heck if they can swing it - good for them (though I'm certain they rarely ever get it because the asking price is sooo outrageous).

 

In the end - what looks like lopsided trades is fair..whoever takes the person up on the offer must find it "ok" or they wouldn't bother to go in on the trade. Each side gets what they want out of the transaction. Nobody is forcing people to make offers on anything afterall.

[drabrugon]

Not everyone playing the game knows what a tombstone represents or how they work. Many new/newish players ASSUME that the "tombstone" was an actual CB Tinsel and get all freaked out that someone would kill something so valuable. They don't realize the lineage of a dead dragon disappears or that the original CB tinsels are in fact still alive...so from that point of view it would be seen as misleading but that is due to their ignorance not that the trader is being dishonest or anything. The only way it could be seen as "cheating" is if the person trading the tinsel deliberately claimed they owned the CB original and killed it.. but I have never seen anyone do that.

 

As for the value of tinsels...  yeah some people will happily trade away a low/mid gen tinsel for next to nothing - doesn't mean the tinsel is being undervalued.. just that the person likely did not want the crown jewels as payment for it.  Some people will go in the opposite direction ask for outrageous impossible offers for a tinsel.. heck if they can swing it - good for them (though I'm certain they rarely ever get it because the asking price is sooo outrageous). 

 

In the end - what looks like lopsided trades is fair..whoever takes the person up on the offer must find it "ok" or they wouldn't bother to go in on the trade.  Each side gets what they want out of the transaction.  Nobody is forcing people to make offers on anything afterall.

Ok your right, new members do not know what a tombstone means. But what was said in this thread has some taste of accusing all the people who are killing tinsels are trying to cheat others. And that is not the case!

 

Your statement about the value of Tinsels can not convince me. It is obvious that tinsels breed like commons and it seems like nearly every user who is active on the forums has got a Tinsel already. I never ask much for my Tinsels, most of them are gifts or going to the AP, but some I use for trades and trading them gets more and more difficult. It is a fact that every dragon that gets to common is losing in value. And like every other breed a messy high gen Tinsel has a very low value, it is difficult to trade them and one day they will be AP-blockers. It is a fact that nobody would trade (not gift, gifting is no question of value) away something that is worth a CB Metallic for a mint hatchie instead. I think that it is impossible to get a CB Metallic for a lets say 3rd to 4th gen gold Tinsel now, but it was possible some time ago. This IS losing in value rapidly to me.

 

Personally I have another problem with Tinsels and their value - they are not very interesting for lineages. You can only follow the lineage of your tinsel but there is nearly no room for creativity. Everybody wants a perfect 2-breed stairstep tinsel and if you do not stick to the lineage it IS losing in value. Even gen tinsels are even worse, because they are to hard to continue in the higher gens.

 

But do not get me wrong, the value of a Tinsel is not important to me. Others said here that killing and faking declines the value of the original Tinsels. Thats why I started to discuss the value of the "original" Tinsel lineages.

 

To me the lineage aspect is the important one. Killing is necessary to create nice new lineages with Tinsels (I saw a PB one, awesome work and impossible without killing). But to be accused of faking and cheating is just unfair.

Edited November 10, 2011 by drabrugon

[Dianacat777]

Eh, fakes. If you want to neaten up a lineage, that's cool. Personally, I think the two gravestones don't look good on any lineage, but it's your call.

 

Trying to trade them for something? Well, I'd rather have a 'second gen' fake than a 10th-gen with a horrible lineage, but people trying to barter off these 'fakes' like they're actual second gens or whatever isn't reasonable.

 

At the same time, I highly doubt that the majority of these lineages are pruned are for con-artist type activities. People just want neat slates, is all.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Dianacat777

[WraithZephyr]

Your statement about the value of Tinsels can not convince me. It is obvious that tinsels breed like commons and it seems like nearly every user who is active on the forums has got a Tinsel already. I never ask much for my Tinsels, most of them are gifts or going to the AP, but some I use for trades and trading them gets more and more difficult.  It is a fact that every dragon that gets to common is losing in value. And like every other breed a messy high gen Tinsel has a very low value, it is difficult to trade them and one day they will be AP-blockers. It is a fact that nobody would trade (not gift, gifting is no question of value) away something that is worth a CB Metallic for a mint hatchie instead. I think that it is impossible to get a CB Metallic for a lets say 3rd to 4th gen gold Tinsel now, but it was possible some time ago. This IS losing in value rapidly to me.

 

Personally I have another problem with Tinsels and their value - they are not very interesting for lineages. You can only follow the lineage of your tinsel but there is nearly no room for creativity. Everybody wants a perfect 2-breed stairstep tinsel and if you do not stick to the lineage it IS losing in value. Even gen tinsels are even worse, because they are to hard to continue in the higher gens.

 

Since when is a tinsel guaranteed a worth of a CB metallic??? Personally, in my opinion the ONLY tinsel worth a CB metallic for is a 2nd gen where I picked out the mate. MAYBE worth a 3rd gen if the pairing was unique. People with 4th, 5th, 6th gen+ tinsels who think they are worth a cb metallic are seriously wishfully daydreaming. Now there are some people who would think such things are worth a CB metallic - especially if that person is good at catching them and doesn't really want to keep them. In the end Value is all in the eye of the beholder. Would you believe I once traded a very nice 2nd gen metallic silver for a 5th even-gen MINT and I felt it was totally worth it.

 

And as for even-gen tinsels being worse to find homes for... I happen to make some of my best trades with them - in spite of them being mid-high gens! You just have to know how and where to market them. The regular trade threads is not where you do it. You use the even-gen trade thread where people who WANT high-gen even-gens go to trade!

 

As for "everybody wants a perfect whatever..." Again, some of my best trades are from those that are NOT perfect. This week for example. I had a trade link for a 7th gen silver tinsel (spiral, 3 breed - NOT a "perfect 2 breed") and a 5th gen gold tinsel (deadline, multi-breed, and NOT a "perfect stair") up on the forum. The only solid value these tinsels really had going for them was that they were incu-hatchable. The silver would have required a cb black to keep the pattern going - something not a lot of people have (or if they do they already have a similar line of tinsel). The deadline gold had some open creativity going for it because it would only look good if you added even MORE breeds to it of the right mix. So yeah I was very surprised when someone made an offer on the trade link with a metallic gold egg. I thought ok.. this is probably someone with few or no tinsels. The gold was probably going to be a long messy lineage and probably inbred. However, when I looked at the egg... it was an utterly gorgeous 2nd gen gold (Gold x Shadowalker). Of course I accepted the offer. And as far as I can tell, the person didn't even keep either of the tinsel's!!! Looks like they may have traded or gifted them away!

[drabrugon]

Since when is a tinsel guaranteed a worth of a CB metallic???  Personally, in my opinion the ONLY tinsel worth a CB metallic for is a 2nd gen where I picked out the mate.  MAYBE worth a 3rd gen if the pairing was unique.  People with 4th, 5th, 6th gen+ tinsels who think they are worth a cb metallic are seriously wishfully daydreaming.

Oh, I saw and sometimes see even now trades where a CB metallic is asked for "higher" gen Tinsels. There have been many totally overpaid trades for them in the past. But maybe I am not the right person to discuss the value of a Tinsel....I am a lineage-fan and trading away everything that is worth something for Flamingos, even gens or other things I need for lineages or just gifting it. And of course everybody values things in a different way.

 

Because you like special lineages, too, you will understand how many work is put into the most of them. As I said in my last post it is sad to see that some people here are only interested in something "rare" but not seeing the work and creativity that is put into a nice lineage.

 

Again, personally I do not care about the value of a tinsel. But it makes me sad that people who are trying to do a different kind of lineage with them are accused of decreasing the value of the original tinsels or cheating.

Edited November 10, 2011 by drabrugon

[Taiine]

The issues with 'fake' lo gens is well.. what happens if someone's scroll along the line has been burned? Such is actually what happened to two of my reds. One of them was from a nice pure short ladder lineage and I was going to try and continue such...

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/Wv44

 

My surprise when I was checking them to name (when we could finally rename them woot) that I noticed it's mom and dad were deceased. Looking at the lineage (before they shortened it) every drake in the line was now dead. The owners scroll had been burned, wiping out everyone.

 

But now when you look at it it only shows the parents as the start of the lineage. Now sadly I'm looked at as having a 'fake' lineage.

 

The same thing happened to my other red that was a 2nd gen.. both it's parents are also dead.

 

Such thing's could wreck havoc for some people. You could end up with a pure nice line then someones scroll gets burned and now what? You have a 'fake' lineage?

 

Really there is no way to tell rather or not a lineage IS fake, or just had someone's scroll burned somewhere along it.

 

 

Some people could also end up doing it to you on purpose. Trading you a nice lined drake then killing off one to make yours look fake while they still hold the pure line. I HAVE seen that before.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Taiine

[xhunter]

However, the owners of these tinsels are entitled to ask whatever they wish for them, the same as tinsel owners are.

Quiet frankly, F-bomb eggs are a plague to me, and yet the traders keep asking for rare goodies for them. If someone is willing to pay a CB gold for them, who am I to tell them they're being ridiculous, or they're being wrong?

 

For example, do you think this is rare? Took me 9 months to finnish, one heck of an effort, time and planning, pages and pages until I got it right. For me, it's pretty rare.

For others, it's a simple lineaged white not worth a penny, and less valuable than a CB white.

I find some lineages very, very pretty, and much more worth it than CB since it shows the work and planning of the breeder.

But that's a matter of preferences.

i think your egg is a little rare i like it though i'm working on breeding projects too so i guess my thoughts comes from experience. i think that those are best to get other special lines from other people that understand how hard it is to make those lines even if it comes threw a group working on the same thing. it takes time.

 

i think that the rarity of a tinsal threw most prospective is on if the person has one at least. i think people with one of a type of tinsal will ask for more for a produced egg because they only have one till they end up with 10 or so then they will start balancing their trades. or that's what i think at least.

 

 

anyone: what do all mean it makes there line lower? does killing both parents make the child a second gen or something i don't understand. :?

[Wookieinmashoo]

A lot of people think the tombstones are ugly...would people like them better if there were different tombstone sprites? I think people might like them if they were "prettied up". Maybe different ones for zombies too.

[SolarCat]

A lot of people think the tombstones are ugly...would people like them better if there were different tombstone sprites? I think people might like them if they were "prettied up". Maybe different ones for zombies too.

I have always been a big fan of different (and permanent - as in, showing up from 6am - 12am when zombies disappear) tombstones for zombies, but I'm okay with the regular tombstones for everything else remaining the same.

 

I suspect the people who believe tombstones are ugly would, on average, object to a tombstone of any coloring, and are more concerned with the fact that a dragon in the lineage was killed.

Again, though, this part is simply conjecture on my part.

[Imbecamiel]

A lot of people think the tombstones are ugly...would people like them better if there were different tombstone sprites? I think people might like them if they were "prettied up". Maybe different ones for zombies too.

Hmm. What SolarCat said may be true, but still - this is a very interesting question. Might be a good topic for a poll, actually... I don't think it'd help in all cases where people object to tombstones (for instance, when it interrupts what was a nice even-gen lineage), but it would be interesting to know whether it might change minds somewhat if we had a "prettier" tombstone icon - maybe one with a leetle dragon statue on top? - rather than the current one. I mean, if it'd actually make a difference to people, I'd be more than happy to see if I could come up with a pretty enough one to please people myself.

[DeathCry]

I've received this tinsel as a gift just recently. I'm only realizing now that people can fake their lineages, but I'm not that bothered by it. I don't kill my own dragons, but it does make the lineage look unique.