Fake Low Gen Tinsels

[Wookieinmashoo]

I echo the others in saying that a fake is a fake no matter what. You can always tell that it's a fake by looking at the tombstones. What I don't get is why do people always assume that anyone creating a fake low gen is trying to cheat?

This. People keep assuming this and I don't get why. Each time I see someone offering a doctored lineage, they make sure to say so.

 

As for trading for them, I wouldn't because I can make my own. I don't see a reason to trade for something I can get easily.

 

I just wish people wouldn't gripe at the people who enjoy making these lineages. They are not out to cheat people and they know they can't get the CB versions of the dragons and they are not trying to devalue the original CBs.

 

@WraithZephyr:

One of the silvers is on a burned scroll too. The dragon seems to not have been released into the wild yet.

[Fuzzbucket]

Thing is with tinsels, most WILL be messy as there were so few CBs. I have a few staircase ones, but also some slightly messy - but at least not inbred. I love 'em all... Though I guess I MIGHT kill and start something tidy and inbred later

 

ETA @ Wookieinmashoo - I wondered if TJ was being kind so it would look nicer in lineages ?

Edited October 12, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[numb3rs]

WraithZephyr, k1ss's name isn't Chaos King anymore, he was named CHAOS and leave the name to a pygmy, so does the booo, now unnamed, leave Belyse to a messy line frozen tinsel

I have Chaos Knight long time ago (since I'm fan of DotA) and Chaos Queen for my sunsong hatchie

 

I have no comment with doctored line, if someone want them or have a project on them just let them be

 

 

Ps: does any1 know why aobo's owner scroll burnt?

Edited October 12, 2011 by numb3rs

[DragonNighthowler]

I'm curious about which silver tinsel it is.

 

Solar, it's wondrful to find someone who also values long lineages. It's not until certain gens that you can see where the line is intended to go.

 

I think part of the messy lineaged problem is, a few months back, tinsels were very few and thus, people were eager to breed them endlessly to trade away for goodies.

Today, tidy lineages like F-Bomb's spiral (which is BEAUTIFUL), are not worth much, and messy lineaged tinsels are even less. But back then, a tinsel was a tinsel and many were willing to trade Cb golds and silvers, no matter the line of the tinsel itself, only to get one. They would breed that tinsel, get back their CB golds and silvers they had traded, and continue the messy line.

 

Now they are so common, and since you can't get your own Cb to start a lineage (unless TJ makes a new tree contest this year), that people are going about other tactics.

I, frankly, would trade a reasonable price for a doctored one. No CB golds or silvers, those I'd keep for myself, but if I could get my hands on a CB nebula, and I thought the line was pretty, why not?

 

I don't know if I mentioned it, but I am going to try an experiment myself. We'll see how it works out.

I see nothing wrong in it.

[Wookieinmashoo]

WraithZephyr, k1ss's name isn't Chaos King anymore, he was named CHAOS and leave the name to a pygmy, so does the booo, now unnamed, leave Belyse to a messy line frozen tinsel

I have Chaos Knight long time ago (since I'm fan of DotA) and Chaos Queen for my sunsong hatchie

 

I have no comment with doctored line, if someone want them or have a project on them just let them be

 

 

Ps: does any1 know why aobo's owner scroll burnt?

I have a suspicion, but I'll just PM you instead. Again.

[DragonNighthowler]

I have a suspicion, but I'll just PM you instead. Again.

Mind telling me too? I'm intrigued.

[WraithZephyr]

@WraithZephyr:

One of the silvers is on a burned scroll too. The dragon seems to not have been released into the wild yet.

It might be related to how TJ made the original Tinsels "safe from killing" to protect them when they were eggs/hatchlings and it just stuck to the adult?

 

WraithZephyr, k1ss's name isn't Chaos King anymore, he was named CHAOS and leave the name to a pygmy, so does the booo, now unnamed, leave Belyse to a messy line frozen tinsel

I have Chaos Knight long time ago (since I'm fan of DotA) and Chaos Queen for my sunsong hatchie

Thanks. I try to check every now and then and update the list when I notice some lines are advertised under names I don't recgonize meaning they either finally got named or was renamed lol.

[Imbecamiel]

Eh, I quite like some fake low-gens, myself. I don't place nearly the value on them that I would on a true one, of course, but I do like them much more than really messy lines.

 

Personally, I've killed one Tinsel - the only dragon I've ever killed - and that was as a favor to someone else. (It was bred specifically to kill, so no one else would be disappointed to see their Tinsel's ancestors suddenly disappear.) So I've got one "fake 2nd-gen", and it's fun to have the chance to do something new with the line.

 

Of course, if/when I trade its offspring I fully intend to list it as pseudo-low-gen, but really - considering anyone can look at the lineage and see what it is, I don't see how anyone can consider that kind of doctoring cheating. Sure, others have every right not to find it aesthetically pleasing, just as I have the right to find it more pretty than messy lineages, but unless someone's spinning some elaborate story about some of the original Tinsels being killed (which would be... pretty stupid and desperate, even aside from anything else) I don't see how anyone can think it's shady.

[RheaZen]

I don't have a problem with it and am planning on making a few myself so that I'll be able to do some even-gen lineages with them.

 

*I'm not killing stuff I've been gifted, just what I breed.

Edited October 12, 2011 by RheaZen

[AlternateMew]

Some nice points here.

 

I don't see the problem with this, for on sole reason: the lack of CBs. With any other species (save holidays) it is perfectly possible, even if difficult, to obtain what youu need to make your desired lineage. With tinsels, this is not so. I personally find the concept of a nice doctored tinsel more valuable than a hug, messy lineaged one. I wouldn't want to do this myself, but I'm fine with the concept.

 

As for trading, I know people like to mark who their tinsel descended from, and I think some sort of note about a doctored lineage would make the trading okay.

[Dubious]

I have been wondering about the general opinion on this matter for a while now. Especially as killing is generally frowned on and discouraged. (limited kill slots, general community consensus etc..)

 

Personally I don't like these fake lineages and assign no value to them at all. I have no idea what generation it actually is or whether it is massively inbred or not or even the CB tinsel it originated from. I am also not sure I particularily like the seemingly rampant killing going on to make them. But if it makes you happy and you want to do it, then that is your business. *shrug*

 

I often see trades for 4th gen or 3rd gen tinsels that are not marked as 'faked lineages' and it would help if people did mark their trades as deadline or fake, just as a curtesy to everyone else. There are a lot of trades to filter through, pages and pages, so it would be nice if people stated it. But it is up to them.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Dubious

[Sheriam]

If I find one that's pretty, I'll trade for a fake, but not (nearly) as much as for a real short lineage. I won't make my own though, and I'm hoping my longer/messier offspring don't get used for one. Freezing fine, kill fodder I always hope the offspring of my dragons are well taken care of (except for zombies or ND's, those are really cool even if they don't all make it).

 

And indeed it's not cheating because you can still see the tombstones, it's everyone's own responsibility to check the lineages of the dragons they trade for. Even if someone calls it a 2nd or 3rd gen, I'll still look at the lineage before I offer my dragon for it, after all people make mistakes too, clicking the wrong egg out of several etc. If they advertise them as such, they may not be cheating either but maybe they just counted the steps and aren't exactly up to date on how tinsels work, not everyone posts here lots & reads threads outside trading.

 

[WraithZephyr]

And indeed it's not cheating because you can still see the tombstones, it's everyone's own responsibility to check the lineages of the dragons they trade for. Even if someone calls it a 2nd or 3rd gen, I'll still look at the lineage before I offer my dragon for it, after all people make mistakes too, clicking the wrong egg out of several etc.

Yes.. always check lineages before trading. Especially because not everyone understands how to properly assign a lineage number. For example, I see lots of posts of people stating a dragon is "1st gen" when in fact it is 2nd gen. Plenty of times I see things like 1st gen alt vines being offered up in trade.. no such thing..alt vines do not come from the cave they have to be bred and therefore they are 2nd gen. lol

[Gluria]

I HATE the idea of killing a dragon just to get a shorter lineage.

I'd never do it and also wouldn't want one from such a lineage.

But I don't value lineages very high at all.

[Banuk]

Nope. Not a fan of doctored tinsels. Or doctored lineages in general. Found out today while going through my backlog of unnamed dragons that the father of one of my hellfires was killed. I named him "Someone Killed My Daddy D8".

 

Doctored tinsels, though? Probably worse than any other doctored lineages (except maybe metallics).

[Velvet_paw]

I'm glad someone started this thread.

I picked this tombstone tinsel staircaseup from the AP yesterday and have mixed feelings about it for all the above reasons (Although it was very kind of the breeder to drop it into the AP)

 

Although I should be overjoyed about it's short tidy lineage I went "oh its got tombstones" and was rather sad that it couldn't be linked to its original prize dragon.

 

Still wondering whether to keep it or trade it and if so what for (--just offers? maybe) what would you think it was worth ?

 

What do you guys think?

Edited October 12, 2011 by velvet_paw

[perzephone]

I don't care.

 

They're shiny.

[Wookieinmashoo]

Still wondering whether to keep it or trade it and if so what for (--just offers? maybe) what would you think it was worth ?

 

What do you guys think?

I think the best answer you can get is probably the one below your post. Most people really won't care. If it was even gen I'd be interested. I have an even 4th gen PB silver I need to find a mate for:

http://dragcave.net/lineage/ilGJe

When I got the dragon it was messy an inbred, and then the other dragons began being killed off. I rather like it and I'll be using his kids in the rosebud x tombstone lineage after Halloween.I really want to find him a suitable mate though, even if most of the children will be killed.

[DragonNighthowler]

I think that's the even gen with the lovely lineage I saw. That, or a sibling of it.

 

A suitable mate? I have several even gens, but I think a mirror lineage would be better. Most even gens end up messy and confusing (IMO) because people simply breed this fourth to this fourth and then add this fifth, and there is not real pattern to it.

 

As for what it's worth. I would pay good price for a dragon like that one, but it depends on the person. Like I said, to some, a lineage like that might be worth a CB gold, while to others it might be worth less than a caveblocker.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

[ksew]

fake low gen Tinsels can make beautiful lineages. I am participatinf myself in a Rosebud x Tombstone Silvr Tinsl lineage, and besids that I'm planning to make some othr fake linages with Tinsels. of course I am not going to kill any of the adults I have already, as they are mostly gifts, but I'll breed the Tinsels that will be killed myself.

as for the price for them - I agree with people who said that a pretty-lineaged Tombstone even-gen shows a lot of work and creativity that the breeder has put into it. personally I would appreciate it high.

 

[rubyshoes]

I was gifted this one http://dragcave.net/lineage/uhmSm and I like it as much as I like all my gold tinsels. I don't plan on trading its offspring (but then I don't do much trading), I'll be gifting them.

[Duysterwald]

One of the silvers is on a burned scroll too. The dragon seems to not have been released into the wild yet.

Wow. That is a right shame - a beautiful CB Silver Tinsel just sitting there, never able to breed again because its owner no longer has access to it. Perhaps it hasn't been released into the Wild yet, because TJ has plans for the Tinsel in question? For example, a contest to find the Tinsel a new owner? I would hope so at least, because it would otherwise be rather tragic to have a very important dragon like that sitting on a charred scroll (or in the Wild) for all time.

[Xbcdrt8741]

Personally, I love the deadlines. I'm even planning to make one of my own and try to zombify the parents, just for awesomeness. They're shiny and the only way someone like myself can get a CB or 2nd gen. Tinsel, so I go for it :3

[Varekis]

I don't really have a problem with people killing them off to attain certain lineages necessary for lineage projects - for example, the Rosebud x Tombstone checker involves mass killing of tinsels but the result is a really nice looking lineage.

 

Everyone's differences in value are reflected in the trades too - some people hate how pseudo tinsel owners try trade for the same things low gen regular tinsel owners would ask for but the pseudo owners probably think their pruned tinsels are just as 'worthy'. While I wouldn't want to trade for a pseudo tinsel, I don't really mind it either.

[Dubious]

Hmm...I just remembered that one of my alt blacks suddenly has no parents, just two tombstones. It had a rather nice lineage, long but nice and it dates back to Jan 27, 2010. Now it has two tombstones where the owner of it's parents clearly killed them to make a better lineage for a sibling of my alt. I had no say in this at all of course. Yet suddenly that lineage I liked is gone.

 

So this sudden trend in lineage shortening is affecting a lot of peoples dragons, they are finding that their dragons suddenly don't have the lineage it used to. It doesn't just affect the dragons of the person shortening the lineage and I don't think that is a good thing. Especially if someone is using a dragon for lineage purposes only to find their lineage completely messed up by the owner of a dragon in their lineage killing some dragons to make a 'neat' lineage.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Dubious