Ways to Reduce Viewbombing Attempts

[stogucheme]

What if there's a checkbox where people have to log on to view eggs? Otherwise, DC overrides the egg image and add a lock symbol. (That should reduce views quite a bit.)

[Obscure_Trash]

Thanks for letting me edit the first post, White-Sword-Master. ^^

Yeah, I know there are still other methods of viewbombing, which is why I went with reduce. :3

 

stogucheme - but what if I want to show them to people who don't have an account? Like on other forums and such.

[fainewebbe]

This really stinks that there are people out there who are vindictive or just take pleasure in messing with others. I have a quick question, though. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but if it does come down to some kind of verification system on fansites where only the scroll owner can add eggs, how can we help people who have the 'accepting aid' option checked on their scroll? I'm sure there are a lot of people who play who are not forum members, so you cannot contact them via PM to give them links to fansites. (Maybe I'm misunderstanding that this is what being suggested: only scroll owners can add eggs/hatchlings?)

 

 

[demonicvampiregirl]

I would love some way as to make sure no one can add your eggs and hatchlings if your account is set to not accept aid. My new Valentines eggs was getting view bombed at only 7 hours old. I have no idea who put them in and I surely don't have it set to accept aid as I do not need it.

 

I fogged them made a board saying mine was being view bombed yet again. (had this happen to unwanted eggs from AP which I'm fine with as a few was bred but new valentines? you're kidding me. I believe I'm the one Fuzzbucket was referring to.)

 

They was sick when I found them so kept them fogged over night. I unfogged them in the morning and the views continued to go up. I hid my scroll and my eggs after that for a bit to hopefully get them off which sites they was on. Unfogged and unhid my scroll but the views kept going up on one of my eggs. I had waited about a half hour or so because usually that's around the time they kick fogged eggs and hatchlings. I took them off fog and hiding the views on them went up slightly but my scroll was still linked in my signature so I figured people was doing it from the thread I had made so I removed it and hid them and my scroll again for a few. When I did this Sock and Dolphin had went around to a few sites and found them in there and removed them for me as for some sites I have no idea how to do that or if they even have that feature.

 

After all this I hid my scroll and eggs over night. Never unfogged them never took my scroll off hiding and one was still getting views. I had no other choice but to unfog both unhide my scroll for a bit and add them. I found them in two sites both of which had been checked by Sock and Dolphin they got them out of at least one site completely but one was still stuck in.

 

I really appreciate all the help people have given me with this problem. I wish there was a way to enforce the accept aid/not accepting aid rule. It's not fun leaving the site for a bit thinking everything is fine and safe to come back to sick hatchlings because someone wished to have their fun with them. Intentionally or not.

 

 

Also I would like to add I hate having to hide my scroll like this or any of it. My username off the eggs or even the eggs themselves from view. I like to show my collection off to people and would not mind taking breeding requests at some point.

Edited February 17, 2012 by demonicvampiregirl

[White-Sword-Master]

@Sockpuppet: No problem, it was kind of refreshing to know I did make a suggestion and it actually remained.....lol......

 

Anyhow, other then the 2 I can think of, I don't know any other ways...

 

API Login

Invisibilty - Where the fansites could use your login, but no other fansites can take eggs without the url address which would be hidden.....Was my idea...

[razi]

I agree with the dislike for multiple log ins, however, I am for a tiny bit more security for our pixels. Choosing not to accept aid does nothing.

 

I'm not familiar with how DC's API works, but I am familiar with another site's API, which uses an OpenID system. Basically, once you log into an OpenID site, all other OpenID enabled sites will recognize you without need for logging in again.

 

If DC's API is OpenID enabled, then as long as you're logged into your scroll, the OpenID enabled fan sites would already know who you were without the need to supply your credentials.

 

On the other hand, there will probably always be those that prefer the quick listing sites that don't require you to be logged in. To combat "unauthorized" listing on those sites, perhaps checking "not accepting aid" could also block the listing of your eggs/hatchlings on sites that aren't using the OpenID system.

[Ext3h]

If fansites should use the API, then the API has to give some advantages for the fansite developers.

 

Thats not the case, i asked TJ09 some time ago to add the possibility to view hidden scrolls and fogged dragons after API login so EATW could access hidden scroll after using the API login, but that feature was never built in. I would like to use the API-login on EATW, but for now it just makes things more complicated for the users without having any advantages.

 

The market uses the API to protect the users from spam, but the market is only used by 200-300 users while the hatchery is used by allmost 6.000 users and most of them won't see the point in beeing forced to use the time consuming API login. This means that the choice to use the API login must be on the users side, it can't be forced for all users.

 

This shows yet another problem, the only effective way to protect yourself against viewbombing is to hide your scroll. But by hiding your scroll, fansites can't find your dragons either, even if you WANT them to. Adding options to protect you scroll from viewbombing attempts is fine, but only if those options don't result in beeing completly ruled out from all fansites.

 

Summary:

• There should be an option which allows the user to forbid access to his scroll via the API without previous authentication. (If people can't add your dragons to hatcherys, then viewbombing is much less likely to be successfull.) Redefining "not to accept aid" would make sense.
• There must be an option for fansite owners to unlock access to hidden scrolls by using the API login. The access must only be granted for a limited timeframe. There may be an option to grant indefinite access to a fansite for automated tasks (like generating signatures or statistics) but this indefinite access must not be used for interactive tasks like adding eggs to a hatchery or alike.
• API login should be made simplier for the dragcave users. They should not be forced to "log in again" on dragcave.net but simply using their existing session and only having to confirm the API login by clicking a single button. However automated login without any confirmation at all is not desired as it does not prevents fansites from reading your scroll without your permission.

[White-Sword-Master]

Add above, you misunderstood us, we API login, but force the fansites to require an API Login for anyone but your own eggs......Is what I'm getting...

[Obscure_Trash]

Add above, you misunderstood us, we API login, but force the fansites to require an API Login for anyone but your own eggs......Is what I'm getting...

The API login means that to add dragons to a fansite you would have to secure your scroll with the API, meaning log into DC via the fansite to verify you are who you are. If not, you couldn't add the eggs.

 

So if there are problems with the API such that fansite owners won't use them, then there are probably some things that need to be addressed/fixed with it so that fansites will implement the option.

[Cirvihi]

Perhaps this is a tad bit off-topic, but I think it's related enough to post here.

 

Also a Disclaimer: I virtually know nothing about coding. I am not tech savvy. I cannot make my own webpage without help. I am naive when it comes to designing things from scratch on T3h Interw3bs. So if what I am proposing is impossible, than disregard this post because I suck.

 

 

 

But, what if instead of trying to reduce viewbombing, we do away with softshell and hatchling sickness?

Now hear me out. I'm guessing softshell and illness were first made to help with population control: that way I couldn't viewbomb my own eggs/hatchlings, grow my dragons in two hours, breed them, and then have a millionkagillion freaking dragons after my first 24 hours on Dragon Cave. I get this. But what if, instead of killing them, the amount of views/clicks a hatchling/egg has doesn't matter until around the 2nd-3rd day?

 

For example, say I do get enough views/clicks for my eggs in the first hour that it should technically hatch and then mature, but it doesn't because it's not old enough. Not only that, but even when the egg is old enough to hatch, it doesn't immediately mature because the times resets for the hatchling. In other words, I can get as many views and clicks as I want, but my hatchling will not go through growth stages until a certain time. You would still need to get enough clicks and views for growth to take place, but you just can't grow your dragons at super-speed.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Cirvihi

[skauble]

Honestly, although I think that we should have ways to handle view-bombing (and general sickness), I don't think that malicious view-bombing is anywhere near enough of a widespread problem to make either this site or the fansites do a bunch of coding for the sake of prevention. Especially because that won't really even fix the problem. Yes, making people log in on the fansites can stop people from abusing them in this manor, but there are places all over the web where you can post an egg and easily get a lethal amount of views that have nothing to do with DC.

 

The fact is that this happened before fansites were huge, and so I think that attacking the problem from that angle is only effective if all the jerks out there agree never to try to kill eggs using anything but fansites.

 

And even if we obscure the code for people's eggs, somehow, how are we going to completely keep anyone else from ever seeing it? That means that the code would have to be absent from the biomes (so when you click an egg it can't show the code because a person who clicked but didn't get it can use that code to post the egg somewhere), the image of the egg (because you can save the image and see the code), teleport pages, lineage links, lineage pages, progeny pages, and parents' pages. I assume that it's possible to do that, but all of this seems like a lot of work as opposed to incorporating the protection on the scroll owner's side of things.

 

Perhaps this is a tad bit off-topic, but I think it's related enough to post here.

 

Also a Disclaimer: I virtually know nothing about coding. I am not tech savvy. I cannot make my own webpage without help. I am naive when it comes to designing things from scratch on T3h Interw3bs. So if what I am proposing is impossible, than disregard this post because I suck.

 

 

 

But, what if instead of trying to reduce viewbombing, we do away with softshell and hatchling sickness?

Now hear me out. I'm guessing softshell and illness were first made to help with population control: that way I couldn't viewbomb my own eggs/hatchlings, grow my dragons in two hours, breed them, and then have a millionkagillion freaking dragons after my first 24 hours on Dragon Cave. I get this. But what if, instead of killing them, the amount of views/clicks a hatchling/egg has doesn't matter until around the 2nd-3rd day?

Actually, IIRC, I think it was mentioned somewhere that part of the original reason for softshell wasn't growing the eggs too quickly (originally people grew them in a day), but because then people weren't getting 50,000 more views than they could possibly need which could tax site resources. The way that population was affected, soon after that, was by making it so that your eggs couldn't hatch until X amount of days had passed (it was 3.5 for a while, then a random number in that range, then 3 days, and now down to 2 if you incubate).

For example, say I do get enough views/clicks for my eggs in the first hour that it should technically hatch and then mature, but it doesn't because it's not old enough. Not only that, but even when the egg is old enough to hatch, it doesn't immediately mature because the times resets for the hatchling. In other words, I can get as many views and clicks as I want, but my hatchling will not go through growth stages until a certain time. You would still need to get enough clicks and views for growth to take place, but you just can't grow your dragons at super-speed.

I may be missing something here (that's not uncommon for me lol), but isn't that what happens now? An eggs can't hatch until 3 days have passed, 2 with incubate (unless someone has forced it with the kill function or Earthquake), and then a hatchling can't mature until 3 more days have passed no matter how many views a person accumulates.

 

Frankly, I like softshell because I think that it adds a deeper meaning to the concept of caring for your dragon. It's not just about getting them to grow, but about making sure that they stay healthy and safe, IMO, a user side, in game ability to protect against viewbombing and sickness would actually add to that.

[Cirvihi]

I may be missing something here (that's not uncommon for me lol), but isn't that what happens now? An eggs can't hatch until 3 days have passed, 2 with incubate (unless someone has forced it with the kill function or Earthquake), and then a hatchling can't mature until 3 more days have passed no matter how many views a person accumulates.

 

Haha, you are missing something but that's probably my fault for not being clear. From what I've seen, usually if an egg gets enough views/clicks that it would hatch if it was at day 2 or 3 (but it's only been alive for a day or so) it would perish. I was just suggesting allowing eggs to not perish, but keep it to where no matter how many views they got, they still couldn't hatch until they're second to third day alive.

 

Then again, this was assuming that illness/softshell was a means of population control (an egg/hatchling can't get a certain amount of views/clicks before a certain day or it will get sick and potentially die.) But if what you said here is true:

Actually, IIRC, I think it was mentioned somewhere that part of the original reason for softshell wasn't growing the eggs too quickly (originally people grew them in a day), but because then people weren't getting 50,000 more views than they could possibly need which could tax site resources. The way that population was affected, soon after that, was by making it so that your eggs couldn't hatch until X amount of days had passed (it was 3.5 for a while, then a random number in that range, then 3 days, and now down to 2 if you incubate).

-then that wouldn't be an option because it would tax site resources.

[Fuzzbucket]

I thought sickness and softshell were invented so that we do have to pay attention to out scrolls, and not just catch and then go on vacation... To make it not a lazy game.

 

But it's true - a determined viewbomber will carry on no matter what ! Even find a way to code around code... I guess there's no way. (And yes, demi - I did mean you !) It would be nice to be able to show only our adults, though.

[Lythiaren]

I thought sickness and softshell were invented so that we do have to pay attention to out scrolls, and not just catch and then go on vacation... To make it not a lazy game.

 

But it's true - a determined viewbomber will carry on no matter what ! Even find a way to code around code... I guess there's no way. (And yes, demi - I did mean you !) It would be nice to be able to show only our adults, though.

This post is truth. Though softshell/sickness (and also the mechanic that allows for viewbombing in the first place) also serve as a measure to slow down usage. Because otherwise we could just viewbomb away and get from egg to adult way too fast.

 

A determined viewbomber doesn't need fansites to kill anything. They can make their own autorefresher and shove your eggs in it with a bit of copy and paste. Throw in a bunch of friends (or, say, a sizable community of trolls) and you've got a dead egg. Takes five minutes.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Lythiaren

[skauble]

Haha, you are missing something but that's probably my fault for not being clear. From what I've seen, usually if an egg gets enough views/clicks that it would hatch if it was at day 2 or 3 (but it's only been alive for a day or so) it would perish. I was just suggesting allowing eggs to not perish, but keep it to where no matter how many views they got, they still couldn't hatch until they're second to third day alive.

Ah, I see now. lol

Then again, this was assuming that illness/softshell was a means of population control (an egg/hatchling can't get a certain amount of views/clicks before a certain day or it will get sick and potentially die.) But if what you said here is true:

 

-then that wouldn't be an option because it would tax site resources.

I thought sickness and softshell were invented so that we do have to pay attention to out scrolls, and not just catch and then go on vacation... To make it not a lazy game.

I found the post I was thinking of here:

 

I was thinking about this when it came up before. The point of soft shell isn't necessarily to make it harder for users, it's to prevent ratios that shouldn't be possible as well as stop people from abusing the server. I'm not sure I want to add some kind of prevention for soft shell. It would allow a user that is placing more strain on the server than most other eggs to continue straining the server. The eggs that die from the "too much too soon" sickness often have more views and unique views and clicks than they would need to grow up, all in less than 2 days.

 

Not to mention that about 90% of egg (and hatchling) deaths are from running out of time, not sickness. Something that gives more time to eggs would thus be more useful.

But that post is from 2008, and the resources of the site have changed since then, so who knows what it's capable of handling these days. Also, since there are BSAs for things like this being discussed, there may be a lot more wiggle room than back when we had the old server.

 

But I do agree with fuzzbucket that the existence of soft shell does tend to call for a more active form of game play.

 

But it's true - a determined viewbomber will carry on no matter what ! Even find a way to code around code... I guess there's no way. (And yes, demi - I did mean you !) It would be nice to be able to show only our adults, though.

I guess I'm still unsure what the problem would be with orienting the solution on the scroll side of things.

 

For instance, say there's a Guardian BSA to prevent death from soft shell and, therefore, viewbombing. Of course, as I said, you made a great point about soft shell encouraging active play. So maybe it could be that if you used the BSA and your egg got sick from too many views for X amount of time, then it would add an extra day onto the hatching time. Because the main problem with viewbombing doesn't necessarily seem to be that people don't check on their dragons enough, but rather that they can be killed in a short amount of time at certain points in their development. So, with this, the active dragon tender is protected from malicious killing, and will fog their eggs before the penalty phase kicks in. Whereas people who use it, consistently, so that they don't have to check on their dragons will have to deal with the time addition.

 

That's just an example, of course, and probably has a lot of holes in it, but the point is that I think that it's entirely possible to allow people to be protected from their end.

[White-Sword-Master]

All I know is that viewbombing is recent, and rather getting first, and I'm betting some of these viewbombers are the kind that are fed up with this place bc they didn't get what they wanted, left, and blamed Tj....No offense TJ, just stating what would probably be true, as I saw a lot of hate pages on you one time.....Really don't understand why, but I guess, oh well....

 

2nd Reason: for viewbomobers is to destroy eggs bc they couldn't get that egg and they wanted it, but couldn't have it, so they'll destroy yours to get revenge

 

3rd Reason: is maybe they have the egg, but want no one else to have one, so they'll go around quickly trying to kill everyones egg just to make sure that happens, ironically it don't work for them in the long run

 

4th reason: is a viewbomber was a jerk in rl and felt like doing it online and can't get caught, so whats the big deal.....they think

 

5th reason: is a viewbomber that hates pets sites and wants to ruin them all.....

 

Those are my beliefs for viewbombers and there passion in ruining games.....

 

----

 

So, idea's we have

 

Lots of them

 

API login - Enforces other fansites to make sure players have to login....

Some fagled feature hiding things but allows only fansite use

Get rid of egg sickness/hatchling sickness- Not usable due to server problems and meant to give players something to do

Make an BSA to utlise and fix viewbombers - More gameplay ideal, but problem is cooldown and need dragon

 

Okay, so looking at above, there is not much we can actually do, this whole heartedly stinks...

Edited February 17, 2012 by White-Sword-Master

[Fuzzbucket]

All I know is that viewbombing is recent,

I don't know what you call recent, but the time I was viewbombed was 2 years ago now.

 

And yes, you have to be a pretty nasty person to do it at all... But I can't see why people would use it to go for TJ. Bombing someone's eggs doesn't affect him at all.

[athdaraxen]

I don't see the problem with the whole API Login thing, is it really that much of a problem to log in to the fansites? I mean, is seems a little lazy to me, I dunno. I mean the whole logging in thing takes like 10 seconds or so, I don't know how many fansites you guys use but I know I only use one, so I guess for me it wouldn't be all that big of a deal to login before adding my eggs. Especially if it meant not getting viewbombed to crap and back.

 

But then again, how can we know unless some fansite actually tries this out? I know we have the EATW Dragon Trading (since everybody has been using it as an example of API Login) does it but if it being an issue with the users is such a big problem, why not just test it on a fansite and see if it really will be a problem for the users? We can keep going on about how it will and how it will not but until a fansite actually does it, how can we really know?

 

I've had a friend be scroll stalked by another user who viewbomed the crap out of every thing she bred or caught for many weeks because she wouldn't give him what she wanted, which was a very very rare egg. Now mind you she did hide her scroll and she did fog her eggs, but sometimes it doesn't help when you go to unfog them and they gain 10k in views in less than an hour, she managed to save a few but she still lost many to this guy.That is simply not right and can ruin one's DC experience to the point of leaving. I agree, its not that widespread but because things like the above happen, I see reason for doing something about the problem.

 

(so much for writing a few sentences... *pokes paragraphs*)

Edited February 17, 2012 by athdaraxen

[White-Sword-Master]

@Fuzzbucket: It affects TJ by making us all complain about viewbombers for various reasons, and that would be one of them, and lots of viewbombers I'd believe would think TJ hates complaining, so thats how I would see their demise...

[stogucheme]

stogucheme - but what if I want to show them to people who don't have an account? Like on other forums and such.

Then in account options, you won't check the box that reads, "only let DC users view my eggs.'

Sorry, just wanted to clarify. Feel free to ignore me now.

[Dolphinsong]

Then in account options, you won't check the box that reads, "only let DC users view my eggs.'

Sorry, just wanted to clarify. Feel free to ignore me now.

The whole problem with that is the site would have to record all IPs of users and some users have changing IPs which does take up space inthe long run. It would then have to run a check through millions of IPs to see if the person trying to view the egg/hatchling is one of the recorded IPs which will cause it to load very slowly as it runs through the checks.

[skauble]

All I know is that viewbombing is recent, and rather getting first, and I'm betting some of these viewbombers are the kind that are fed up with this place bc they didn't get what they wanted, left, and blamed Tj....No offense TJ, just stating what would probably be true, as I saw a lot of hate pages on you one time.....Really don't understand why, but I guess, oh well....

Not really all that recent. The thread I posted back a page was from a case of it in 2008 that was so excessive that the site used to bomb the egg was blocked.

API login - Enforces other fansites to make sure players have to login....

Some fagled feature hiding things but allows only fansite use

Get rid of egg sickness/hatchling sickness- Not usable due to server problems and meant to give players something to do

Make an BSA to utlise and fix viewbombers - More gameplay ideal, but problem is cooldown and need dragon

Guardian dragons aren't difficult to get. In fact, they sit there, and sit there. Besides, when teleport was being discussed, TJ said that he'd take care of it so that Magis were available, even if people began massively collecting them. So the population can be adjusted to suit the demand.

 

Also, I believe in one of the BSA threads about mass fogging, TJ said that he would probably set the cooldown to nothing. So cooldown isn't necessarily an issue.

I've had a friend be scroll stalked by another user who viewbomed the crap out of every thing she bred or caught for many weeks because she wouldn't give him what she wanted, which was a very very rare egg.  Now mind you she did hide her scroll and she did fog her eggs, but sometimes it doesn't help when you go to unfog them and they gain 10k in views in less than an hour, she managed to save a few but she still lost many to this guy.That is simply not right and can ruin one's DC experience to the point of leaving. I agree, its not that widespread but because things like the above happen, I see reason for doing something about the problem.

 

(so much for writing a few sentences... *pokes paragraphs*)

That many views in less than an hour suggests that they were using something other/in addition to fansites. And that's the problem with the API solution. It certainly wouldn't hurt to do it, and it would make it more difficult for some of the viewbombers. But, as Lythiaren pointed out, a person could probably kill and egg faster without leaving it to the fansites.

 

 

[White-Sword-Master]

@Skuable: Well, i'd hate to see this page be blocked as I use it, but would be able to block webpages from accessing our site? If so, lets kill these things...

 

www.pagerefresher.com

 

Refreshes given page up to 1 sec and it could be an egg image, which gains it views, but only works if an egg is in a fansite or is being viewed by others.....

 

I only use it to my advantage to just have to play a waiting game with my eggs.....

 

Simple, they could click the egg, change view to image in url, paste in there, and you got a viewbombing page, open it in several tabs, later on egg is dead or fogged....I fog mine after I get the softshell sign, wait 3 days unless incubated, then 2 days, get hatchlings, and go through with same process....Its nice indeed.....When they are hatchlings, I know they can get sick and stuff, but after hatchling stage, i just let them mature on their own...

 

So, its not just fansites that get softshell, if proper viewbomber did it right, they wouldn't need a fansite, just lots and lots of people, and the url....with a page refresher....

 

Its annoying having them try and kill our eggs, but in the mean time, I'd miss the pagerefresher as I pretty much viewbomb my own egg and let it grow after sickness stage....

 

Sometimes I don't even need to, I let the people do it for me....

 

---

 

So, I guess another suggestion/idea...

 

Can you block websites and webpages from viewing dragcave? And have the person set that up? Put a list of No's and Yes's....Kind of like cookis, where you can have a website set up to allow cookies, and others not to allow it...

[Lythiaren]

All I know is that viewbombing is recent

AHAHAHAHA no. I've used autorefreshers since before fansites were even invented and I've seen people's eggs bombed to death since the day I joined.

 

And it really does us no good to try and dissect the motives behind those who kill eggs. For example, I know at least two people who have murdered people's eggs to "teach them a lesson" on forums where they were not allowed to make posts specifically to beg for clicks. Those who did so anyway would often find their dragons dead 10-15 minutes later with 15xUV views. Don't assume all of them are just angry, jealous or stupid. Some believe themselves on some kind of righteous crusade.

 

That aside, blocking sites doesn't stop viewbombers either. Sign up on free hosted webspace, make rapid self-refreshing page (which can be done easily by hand to refresh immediately after each finished page load), insert targets, open page in several tabs in browser, leave for a little while, return, laugh at dead things.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Lythiaren

[Vhale]

Generally speaking, it's a bad idea to list in any detail how to go about successfully view-bombing eggs. Not everyone is a good critical thinker or creative enough to think of ways to do it. But if things get spelled out for them... it's just setting it up for more of it to happen.