Bullying

[Kestra15]

Mentally weak -> troubled -> depressed, its not a must happen but it increases the chances for it...

I very much doubt I count as being 'mentally weak;' I have probably handled more corpses this week than you will in your entire life, and trust me, I don't lose any sleep over it. What I've seen would give most people nightmares for life, and I manage to study it with cool indifference before heading off to enjoy my salad lunch or steak for tea. I still, however, suffer from depression stemming from my abusive childhood.

 

Depression =/= mental weakness by any means. You simply cannot survive in Intensive Care if you have mental weakness - heck, to be a front-line carer of any sort requires a heck of a lot of mental resilience. But you can still suffer for other reasons.

 

Off-topic by a fair degree now. So I suppose I should say something about not supporting sexism.

LOL, I have friends who offed themselves, I have friends who suffer from PTSD, I have been through war-zones and seen stuff you dont even hear about on news, I have done interventions and been on countless suicide watches, I've dealt with walking zombies which shouldnt be confused with some sci-fi show but is in fact people who have "empty eyes" meaning they were broken in a manner that left nothing but an empty shell.. the sad truth of things whether you choose to accept it or not is that strong minded people come back from "hell" and its simply put inspiring, matter of fact even though I will allow myself to go on a limb and claim that Im tougher than you (mentally) I would feel truly blessed if I were to ever be half as tough as some of the individuals I have met, on the other hand, I have seen weak people simply give up coz they lacked the will to fight...

Rubbish. I've spent my life (literally, my entire life) working with people who have actually been in war-zones, and not a single one of them talks about it like you do. So I am calling 'troll.'

Edited June 20, 2012 by Kestra15

[Kelkelen]

Depression =/= mental weakness by any means. You simply cannot survive in Intensive Care if you have mental weakness - heck, to be a front-line carer of any sort requires a heck of a lot of mental resilience. But you can still suffer for other reasons.

 

Rubbish. I've spent my life (literally, my entire life) working with people who have actually been in war-zones, and not a single one of them talks about it like you do. So I am calling 'troll.'

Thank you, Kestra. Thank you.

 

@TheEvilDoer, you're saying some very offensive and harmful things, and if you had really been through all the situations and friendships that you claim to have, I strongly doubt this would be your approach.

 

You were in war zones? Have friends with PTSD? Done interventions? Been on suicide watches? Dealt with rape and sexual trauma and torture victims?

 

When? Where? How? In what capacity? What was your training? Do you not realize that the majority of what you're saying flies in the face of standard, proven counseling methods and coping devices? Just knowing people who were suicidal and sitting with them telling them to "man up" doesn't cut it. Are you speaking as a professional? Have you personally been through psychotherapy? Experienced rape, sexual harassment, depression, anxiety, or panic attacks? I'm not saying that you have to have experienced these things to talk about them, but you can't just say that your "treatment method" is the best and only one, if you lack solid personal or professional experience. I know of NO professionals who advocate staying in an abusive situation and "toughing it out" as the ideal solution, or who blamed or lectured suicidal people for being weak and giving up.

 

Telling her you were right to run away sweety, they are big meanies, you dont wanna play that game at all, lets go have us an ice cream... which is supportive and all that but how is that helping in the long run ? Problem is there, she didnt deal with it, when it happens in two weeks we're in a loop....

 

Do you realize how offensive you're being? Stop it with the baby talk. Let's see... telling someone they were right to walk away from people who were sexually harassing them when they had the option = weak and not coping? Is that honestly what you're saying? "Get back in there and LET them abuse you some more, that's the tough thing to do!" That is some of the worst advice I've ever heard.

 

I'm also NOT advocating the "you don't wanna play that game at all" attitude, but "you want to play that game, and yet it is rife with bullies and abuse, so let's consider how to handle both your immediate problem of being abused, and the bigger problem of what to do about a community full of bullies and how to improve it." Why do you think my solution is "weak?" Because it accepts the idea that you can choose not to expose yourself to unnecessary abuse, if it improves your quality of life? Really?

 

Also, you really seem to be pushing for a "bigger (whatever)" contest over what the respective life experiences of people on this board have been. If you want us to lend any weight to your claims of superior knowledge of trauma victims, then you'll have to actually tell us more about it.

 

but no psychologist will suggest you being a hermit not even for 5 minutes, suggestion would usually be to have people you trust around, pref to females (friends/close family)

 

That is just straight-up not true. It depends on the situation and the individual. And NO good psychologist, anywhere, will tell you that you're being weak, that you aren't tough, that you're a failure, for feeling hurt by receiving abuse!

[Rosedamai]

Do you not realize that the majority of what you're saying flies in the face of standard, proven counseling methods and coping devices? Just knowing people who were suicidal and sitting with them telling them to "man up" doesn't cut it.

Ha, I remember something like this. I called a suicide hotline once, I was severely depressed and unhappy. It was something like 10 in the night though, and I guess whoever was on the other end of the phone wasn't too happy with her job. I said I was unhappy and wanted to commit suicide, the other person asked me why and then proceeded to tell me that it was somehow my fault.

 

The one good thing that came out of this was that I became so angry at the person's audacity that I decided not to die. When I talked about this with my psychologist (who's a lovely person, bless his heart) he was very apologetic about the state of affairs with suicide hotlines.

[Rohawk]

"shame on you if you let some ** you dont even know spoil the fun for you, "

 

^ How many people do you think actually sit down and deliberately say "I'm going to let this person spoil my game"? It's automatic. It's feeling. You might as well just tell anybody in any problem situation with a game "shame on you if you let yourself feel this way". Awkward controls? Game turns monotonous with the same quests over and over again? "Shame on you, you had fun with this for the first ten minutes you played it!".

 

Why bother soldiering through a game that's no longer fun? Nobody is obligated to stay and play a game that is no longer fun. At work and school? To a degree, yes. When doing something fun? No. If it's not fun, it's pointless to stay, and leaving that situation doesn't make a person "weak". It's the responsibility of the other players to be pleasant, not the responsibility of that player to be thick-skinned.

 

That being said, people do have the right to not be miserable or have to learn how to be miserable. I agree that it's easier to deal with upsetting people when you're the sort of person who'll be belligerent right back or unmoved, but "The Evil Doer", not everybody can do that and there's no logical reason they should have to, especially when it's not necessary. Calling them weak and insulting them for it is blaming them for having a normal reaction to the person who's really at fault; it pointlessly adds insult to injury. Some people can handle terrible behavior from others more than other people can, just like some people can draw and some can't.

 

If you were told that you had to learn to draw to make money or else you'd starve, all because a specific group of people has made it illegal to have any other job possible -- would you start blaming the non-artists and tell them to "suck it up and learn, that's how you get through life", or would you be outraged at the group for allowing human beings to suffer just because they're not equipped for a pointless dilemma?

 

Additionally, as the topic is sexism, just "standing up to a sexist bully or you're weak" is its own damage. If you're that knowledgeable about psychology, you'll know how attitudes of peers can affect what people do and think. If there's an accepted viewpoint of "if the victim doesn't stop the attacker, it's their fault for not being tough enough", an attacker has something to adopt. "If she didn't stop me from raping her, she must not have wanted to badly enough, and now I've done her a favor because I've taught her to toughen up".

 

Inb4 "you can't say I'm directly influencing rapists" -- you're just one person, yes, but everybody's just one person. This kind of attitude enables people to be violent by shifting the blame onto the others for their wrongdoing. It's commonly referred to as "rape culture"; I kind of roll my eyes at the name sometimes, but it's pretty real.

 

I get that you're trying to say that people feel better when they're less sensitive towards bullying -- and yeah, it's completely true. I'm one of those less sensitive people. But if somebody's more sensitive than I am, I'm not going to blame them for being hurt, I'm going to blame the one who's doing the actual bullying. It should be okay to be sensitive; it doesn't hurt anybody, and nobody has a license to hurt others. Being resigned to "people are going to bully" as a fact of life just means that it WILL be a fact of life. Things have already changed so much in history -- there's laws against abuse and bullying that weren't there fifty years ago, and attitudes towards women and homosexuals are different a thousand times over -- so why not demand it to be even better than it already is?

 

Sure, sometimes facing nastiness from others makes you stronger, but sometimes and for some people it doesn't; if you're using air conditioning in the summer, you're already skipping out on some adversity, even though other people can deal with heat just fine. Might as well give others the freedom to avoid discomfort that matters to them but not to you.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Rohawk

[Shienvien]

The matter here is that there is no 'toughen up' button in people's brains. A human is born as an individual with certain capacities, and that's it. 'Impervious to verbal abuse by strangers (or other similar)' is not an option one can choose. One might become more numb to it than initially over time, but if it gets an automatic emotional response in one's mind, one gets it. No one can consciously switch it off. And by the time one has gotten that emotional response, the damage (if only a tiny bit of it) has already been done.

 

 

Yes, in the sense that another might endure something without taking any damage while one person does not, the one who does suffer as a consequence might indeed be 'weaker' than that other person. Are they any worse as people for it? No. I do not know what the physical analogue of it would be... Forcing a person with a heart-condition run a marathon? Should anyone blame a person who was born with a weak heart for not being able to run a marathon within a better-than-average time, or at all? No.

[Rohawk]

Additionally, if you're that familiar with PTSD, wouldn't you be aware that insensitive comments from a stranger aren't always just standalone verbal abuse to some people? Obviously this isn't the case for you, but it can drag up years of people slinging the same stuff up close and personal. No, you can't safety-pad the entire internet, but it's reasonable to expect basic decency.

 

Would you call a veteran weak for being upset by the fourth of July? After all -- they're just fireworks, right? What about somebody who miscarried who's upset by a commercial for diapers? It's just a commercial, after all -- right? "They should just stop being upset. Problem solved."

Edited June 20, 2012 by Rohawk

[The Evil Doer]

 

Oh, but you have no control over the outside factors in your kids life that might make them "weak" and that are more effective than your parenting.  :|

 

Tell me, why should I have to change my life, if I've done no wrong, to accommodate the unacceptable behavior of another person who is taking out their frustrations in life on an innocent?  Shouldn't they have to change how they deal with their problems to avoid hurting innocents?

 

Coz one of our best feats is adaptiveness, you can sit and hope it will all work out or you can adopt to the situation and take control

 

You keep coming back to ideas which are not related in any way.  A bully with a dysfunctional family is nowhere near the same league as a girl simply doesn't like you.  Dysfunctional families CAN get better, or you can rise above it as you learn more about how things SHOULD work and then you can go out and live your own life.  You can learn from your family and learn not to repeat the mistakes they made.

 

If a girl doesn't like you, WHY doesn't she like you?  If it's simply a personality thing, you're not compatible, and you can learn from that and find a more suitable person.  If there's something about you that has caused more than one rejection, you can take that and try to learn from it to improve yourself, if it's something that can be improved on.  (Such as hygiene, attitude, etc.)

 

It is one of the problems kid will deal with throughout his life, point is you want him to cope on his own instead of running to his mom every time so she can solve his problems....

 

Shifting the focus of the problem =/= solving the problem.  Your kid toughened up and is fine now?  Great!  Oh, wait, the bully decided to target another kid, and that kid killed themselves.  That is not solving the problem simply because it's not your kid and therefore not your concern.

 

If everyone does their job as a parent all kids will be safe, and your scenario is a hypothetical one, in a same manner my kid fighting back might lead to - other kids learnign from it, bully dropping his act, my kid talking to the bully now that he has the control adn getting the bully to stop bullying...

 

All possible just like your example

 

Well they should just get "tougher" so they can deal with their dysfunctional family in a way that allows them to go about life without being an ass, since the rest of us are supposed to get "tougher" to accommodate their problems.  :|

 

It's not about changing their lives at the family level or whatever--it's about educating them, and then they can change their lives and become better people.

 

Kids need support ot toughen up so someone with a dysfunctional family has a big problem, however educating such a kid when you have zero control over whats going in his home is close to impossible...

 

And you know, that's absolute BS that argument.  Bully has a dysfunctional family?  That is not an excuse for if s/he bullies another person until they kill themselves.

 

People who are abused as children don't always turn into abusive parents--it's not that they just "toughen up" and shrug it off, it's that they learn how to be a decent parent from other sources and don't repeat those mistakes on the next generation.

 

Nothing is an excuse for wrong doings, its just one of the many possible reasons for bullying...People are individuals, all choose thier path...

 

You are the first person I have met who talks that way while claiming to have gone through such, insulting the very people who need such help the most (calling them weak for not being able to shrug off everything that's ever happened to them that sent them to the edge of suicide).  The fact of the matter is, everybody reacts differently.  If you had dared tell me "Just toughen up, only weak people do this" when I was suicidal, I 100% would have offed myself.  However, I had people who talked to me, and helped me understand that it wasn't because I was a weak person, it was because I tried to be too strong and go it alone when I needed help all along, and that helped me learn to seek out help when I needed it instead of trying to be "tough".

 

Nice to meet you and introduce you to a different type of people then, people all cope with things in a different manner, while you feel sorry for people who take their own lives I feel different feelings, the fact that they werent brave enough to ask for help and that they gave up instead of fighting is filling me with both sadness and anger and anger is something I can work with much easier, and for that I will never forgive them and that is something I carry with me just like their family does, you are not me and you shouldnt cope with things in a similar manner coz of individuality....

 

Trying to be "tough" nearly drove me to end my life several times, because while I could do it on the outside I was never able to do it on the inside no matter how hard I've tried.  Since I've abandoned the idea of shrugging off everything I've never been better.  I accept that crap happens to me, yes, and I do allow it to get to me at times.  But I understand that sadness, like happiness, is not permanent and have been able to detach myself enough to survive.  That's not shrugging it off.  That's taking the abuse in the hope that, like before, things will get better.  And if it doesn't, I have people I can go to who will help hold me up while I try to get through it.

 

I think you need to talk to someone, and to let him/her help you get to the best possible place for you to be at, dont do it on your own...

 

You may need somebody who will give you tough love.  But others will take their own lives in response, because they will feel like they failed yet again and are worthless.  What works for you does not work for everybody, and you need to understand that.

 

Also, I don't doubt that you're "tougher" than I am.  But I wouldn't want to be like you--I'd rather be me, because I've found that being kind and understanding helps a hell of a lot more than giving nothing but a kick in the butt.  Yes, that can help at times--I won't deny that.  But it cannot help ALL the time.  There needs to be a balance.

 

Agreed

 

And why are people weak for not wanting to live in a world that treats them like crap then says "Oh just toughen up, or you're worthless"?  We should strive to make the world a place that understands them and cares for them and helps them get back on their feet instead of telling them to "toughen up" or screw them.  It doesn't say anything good about the world, IMO, when there are too many people who are so cold to those in need and don't see that a gentle touch can be just as helpful depending on the situation.

 

It may not be possible to completely succeed, but if we try, then we help our fellow humans and give them a new way to view the world.  I can't see anything wrong with that.

 

Dont agree with you there, I dont think you can fix the world, but I do think that if we convince each and every individual that they are worth a lot, if we get everyone to know it and act like it, the world will follow, coz world is people, instead of fixing the world as a whole, fix the little pieces and you're fixing the big picture as well... my opinion, you dont have to agree ofc...

 

Actually, just helping yourself and your own (giving your kids the power to stand up to a bully) doesn't help very many people.  Especially not if the bully's parents are teaching them to bully others to assert their power or something.  Then you have a fight waiting to happen.  :|

 

Like I said, me you, kelkelen, if we all do the difference for 5 people, and they do the same for 5 other people... it will make the world a better place

 

And, actually, believe it or not it's entirely possible to allow everybody to have vastly different emotional and physical attributes while combating bullying.  I've seen it in action when a group of people who have radically different views are able to come together and have a civil discussion, and are able to stop a person for continuing to harass another person.  These people had conflicting views for the most part, but they shared the belief that allowing people to abuse their fellow humans was wrong, and that allowed them to behave civilly towards each other even through disagreements and to work together to stop a bullying issue before it got out of hand.

 

What I meant was, difference is sometimes a reason for bullying, poor kid doesnt have what rich kids have, envy gets him to become a bully, physically stronger kids think they're superior to weaker ones so they bully, different attributes are just one of many causes for bullyingm thats all I said, not that it must make someone into a bully...

 

If we all share a respect for our fellow humans, we can really reduce a lot of the problems caused by bullying, racism, sexism, etc.  That is not a bad thing for us all to share.

 

Agreed, tough to teach though when kids see the differences around them, and its not hard to acknowledge lack of fairness amongst kids...

 

I very much doubt I count as being 'mentally weak;' I have probably handled more corpses this week than you will in your entire life, and trust me, I don't lose any sleep over it. What I've seen would give most people nightmares for life, and I manage to study it with cool indifference before heading off to enjoy my salad lunch or steak for tea. I still, however, suffer from depression stemming from my abusive childhood.

 

In a week not, throughout time statistically speaking its probably correct.

Different people react in a different manner to things, and while you got used to certain things it doesnt mean your stress levels arent affected by it, and Im confident that even you encounter a case here or there that sticks with you for a day or two, its a part of being human and even with great detachment skills it happens to most of us...

1. the part you quoted stated that being mentally weak increases chances to be troubled and get depressed, increases chances doesnt mean it will happen, individuality and all that,, feel free to research it, psychologist have doen a few of those studies...

2. Sorry to hear you had bad childhood, but I never said mental toughness = you cant be depressed nor that being mentally weak = you will be depressed, increased and decreased chances thats all....

 

Depression =/= mental weakness by any means. You simply cannot survive in Intensive Care if you have mental weakness - heck, to be a front-line carer of any sort requires a heck of a lot of mental resilience. But you can still suffer for other reasons.

 

Like I said, thats not what I said...

regarding IC, not necessarily, there is a wide range of personalities out there, and while one can be great at detachment (in order to protect himself or for other reasons) and solving the most complex problems for others at the same time he can fail in solving those same problems on a personal level.. hope it makes sense...

 

Rubbish. I've spent my life (literally, my entire life) working with people who have actually been in war-zones, and not a single one of them talks about it like you do. So I am calling 'troll.'

 

Wow, buddy, I have never encountered a nurse that will talk about seeing 100's of corpses and then havin a salad and sleeping like a baby yet I dont deduce a thing about you coz after all your life has made you into what you are and I acknowledge the inividuality aspect, so I stronlgy advise against saying anything of a kind to the next person who's been in a war zone that doesnt fall into the category which you have decided we should all be in, you might not like the response (unless you have masochistic tendancies)

 

If you really are intersted though, drop me a pm and I'll dig up a few things, scan them and send them over so you can get a better idea of where I've spent my childhood during which periods and where I served...

 

@Kelkelen

@TheEvilDoer, you're saying some very offensive and harmful things, and if you had really been through all the situations and friendships that you claim to have, I strongly doubt this would be your approach.

 

You were in war zones? Have friends with PTSD? Done interventions? Been on suicide watches? Dealt with rape and sexual trauma and torture victims?

 

When? Where? How? In what capacity? What was your training? Do you not realize that the majority of what you're saying flies in the face of standard, proven counseling methods and coping devices? Just knowing people who were suicidal and sitting with them telling them to "man up" doesn't cut it. Are you speaking as a professional? Have you personally been through psychotherapy? Experienced rape, sexual harassment, depression, anxiety, or panic attacks? I'm not saying that you have to have experienced these things to talk about them, but you can't just say that your "treatment method" is the best and only one, if you lack solid personal or professional experience. I know of NO professionals who advocate staying in an abusive situation and "toughing it out" as the ideal solution, or who blamed or lectured suicidal people for being weak and giving up.

 

Where did I ever say - 13 yo girl got raped 5 minutes ago, I walk up to her and say toughen up kiddo (as a man, Im not even supposed to go near her after something like that, women do that) ? State of mind is to get the person to toughen up, to survive the attack, you dont sit next to a tied up dude on a suicide watch and tell him to toughen up, I have never said something that dumb, that would make no sense as in that state the person doesnt even react to the things you tell him at all.

Ask any psychologist, and they will tell you that regardless of their approach the end game is to get the person to the point where they are strong/tough enough mentally to cope with their demons, thats all I ever said, healing process is a long one and "toughen up" is not something you ever even say say to a trauma victim, its somethin you build slowly...

Regarding me, I dont think this is the appropriate stage for getting into details, however you can pm me and I'll do my best to answer whatever it is that you wanna know...

 

Do you realize how offensive you're being? Stop it with the baby talk. Let's see... telling someone they were right to walk away from people who were sexually harassing them when they had the option = weak and not coping? Is that honestly what you're saying? "Get back in there and LET them abuse you some more, that's the tough thing to do!" That is some of the worst advice I've ever heard.

 

The story was your baby son got bullied in school, thats how parents talk to little dudes, and there was no sexual harassment there... so WTF ?

 

I'm also NOT advocating the "you don't wanna play that game at all" attitude, but "you want to play that game, and yet it is rife with bullies and abuse, so let's consider how to handle both your immediate problem of being abused, and the bigger problem of what to do about a community full of bullies and how to improve it." Why do you think my solution is "weak?" Because it accepts the idea that you can choose not to expose yourself to unnecessary abuse, if it improves your quality of life? Really?

 

I didnt say yours is weak, I just said its less effective IMO...

 

Also, you really seem to be pushing for a "bigger (whatever)" contest over what the respective life experiences of people on this board have been. If you want us to lend any weight to your claims of superior knowledge of trauma victims, then you'll have to actually tell us more about it.

 

I dont have some superior knowledge of trauma victims, encountered messed up things, and Im thinking Kage is less than twenty hence by default of her age couldnt have been through some of the things I have been through.. thats all I said

 

whatever you wanna know pm me, Im not gonna share other peoples dirty laundry in a public thread, its not cool...

 

edit-

Additionally, if you're that familiar with PTSD, wouldn't you be aware that insensitive comments from a stranger aren't always just standalone verbal abuse to some people? Obviously this isn't the case for you, but it can drag up years of people slinging the same stuff up close and personal.  No, you can't safety-pad the entire internet, but it's reasonable to expect basic decency.

 

Would you call a veteran weak for being upset by the fourth of July? After all -- they're just fireworks, right? What about somebody who miscarried who's upset by a commercial for diapers? It's just a commercial, after all -- right? "They should just stop being upset.  Problem solved."

 

I know 2 guys who have been diagnozed with PTSD, I also know a guy who has cancer, nowhere did I say Im THAT familiar with PTSD, know the basics, seen a few symptoms, Im not treating the dude..

 

Who said you're not allowed to get upset over things that remind you of a trauma ?

 

That being said, people do have the right to not be miserable or have to learn how to be miserable. I agree that it's easier to deal with upsetting people when you're the sort of person who'll be belligerent right back or unmoved, but "The Evil Doer", not everybody can do that and there's no logical reason they should have to, especially when it's not necessary. Calling them weak and insulting them for it is blaming them for having a normal reaction to the person who's really at fault; it pointlessly adds insult to injury. Some people can handle terrible behavior from others more than other people can, just like some people can draw and some can't.

 

My goal/point is - I will be an ass, and I will try to get you mad by as you say insulting you or as I call it shaking you up, coz I want you to be mad, I want you to reach that inner fire we all have within and I want you to leash out at me, be angry, be mad, take it out on me coz I want you to scream and fight, instead of absorbing all those negative feelings inside allowing them to eat you up slowly, if you see your inner "beast" just once and that you are capable of leashing out you will both feel more confident and be "healthier" coz you're no longer harboring all those feelings inside.. thats what Im sayin, and if I have to be an ass to do that, I can live with that, if kage cant stand me but has also discovered that she can be a little warrior who bites back instead of a "tank" who's only absorbing, in my eyes its a win win....

 

Additionally, as the topic is sexism, just "standing up to a sexist bully or you're weak" is its own damage. If you're that knowledgeable about psychology, you'll know how attitudes of peers can affect what people do and think. If there's an accepted viewpoint of "if the victim doesn't stop the attacker, it's their fault for not being tough enough", an attacker has something to adopt. "If she didn't stop me from raping her, she must not have wanted to badly enough, and now I've done her a favor because I've taught her to toughen up".

 

Verbal abuse over internet and rape are not one and the same, nobody tells a rape victim to fight back,the best thing a rape victim can do is to not fight back, surviving is the goal when being assaulted and if she survives the attack instead of getting herself killed in the process thats the best things she could of have done...

 

I get that you're trying to say that people feel better when they're less sensitive towards bullying -- and yeah, it's completely true. I'm one of those less sensitive people. But if somebody's more sensitive than I am, I'm not going to blame them for being hurt, I'm going to blame the one who's doing the actual bullying. It should be okay to be sensitive; it doesn't hurt anybody, and nobody has a license to hurt others. Being resigned to "people are going to bully" as a fact of life just means that it WILL be a fact of life. Things have already changed so much in history -- there's laws against abuse and bullying that weren't there fifty years ago, and attitudes towards women and homosexuals are different a thousand times over -- so why not demand it to be even better than it already is?

 

Not blame them for being hurt, get them mad and fired up a bit so they can let it all out, coz its ok to let it all out as opposed to absorbing it and living with it (IMO)

 

I agree that morals change, and they can change for the better with bullying too but you cant exterminate the phenomena completely coz its a part of human nature, in a same manner you cant exterminate racism, you can make it more tolerable but you cant really exterminate it unless you mix races up till there is no difference...

Edited June 20, 2012 by The Evil Doer

[Rohawk]

The thing is, people don't necessarily get "shaken up" and driven to action by somebody being an ass. If that works for you then that's great, but for some people, that kind of acid is going to just be piles on top of piles, and it's not going to spark fire out of them or whatever you assume it's going to do. It's just as likely -- if not more likely, since obviously that person's reaction to verbal abuse isn't to get riled up back, that was the issue in the first place -- that it could just depress them, or cause pointless argument and upset.

 

You're not entitled to assume that's going to be what helps this complete stranger cope when for the majority of people, it's just rude and offensive. If your original purpose really was to show that person how confronting a bully makes them stop, then say so and add calm, logical evidence. Being abusive and blaming them to make them angry most likely isn't going to help. If you ask any of those psychologists you keep supposedly paraphrasing, I highly doubt that you'll find many who think that slinging "shame on you!" at a victim is going to help them in any way, end game of 'toughness' or no end game.

 

Verbal abuse over internet and rape are not one and the same, nobody tells a rape victim to fight back,the best thing a rape victim can do is to not fight back, surviving is the goal when being assaulted and if she survives the attack instead of getting herself killed in the process thats the best things she could of have done...

 

No, they're nowhere near the same, but actually, people do; nobody professional would/should ever say it, you're absolutely right, but if it looks at all like somebody could have fought back, there are people who will accuse them of lying. Verbal abuse isn't necessarily related,, but since this topic's about sexism, I was referring to the sexual harassment sort. If that were what was going on with this person quitting the game, blaming the user more than the harassers would have been relevant. I apologize if that was unclear and in hindsight don't think it's relevant enough to what you were actually trying to get across.

 

Who said you're not allowed to get upset over things that remind you of a trauma ?

 

That's the thing, though -- you're yelling at that user about how she let some stranger over the internet who means less than a bug to her get to her, but how do you even know it's that meaningless anyway? For all you know, it does remind her of upsetting past situations. Your post made assumptions about her reasons for quitting the game and insulted her for it, when for all you know it was completely off-target. That's not okay.

 

As for that last part, who says being ****ty to others is part of human nature? That's a defeatist attitude. We're living in houses with electricity, eating genetically-engineered food, and helping the blind see again with robotic corneas -- and you think humanity is limited to something like that? People also used to think that only children of landowning families could go to college, and that the earth was flat. Ideas and attitudes can most definitely change.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Rohawk

[Ashes The Second]

Given that it is likely what people are thinking, now you have a point at which you can explain to them that your wives are exercising their rights to choose their own attire and you've got nothing to do with what they wear. If these people don't believe you when introduced to something that challenges their sexist attitudes of assuming that every woman who covers her head has been forced to, then...write them off as sexist?

 

 

 

Based on what you've said here, I wouldn't have asked you for help when I was suicidally depressed simply because I would have perceived asking you as asking for yet another kick while I was down. Keep that in mind while you are judging the departed for being cowardly. Be angry with people who have committed suicide. It's an understandable reaction. Just be careful with that anger.

So much this. I feel like your taking something as basic as sexist, The Evil Doer, and then trying to trump every argument with 'toughen up'. It's not your right, nor responsibility to lecture someone on how they deal with a situation as you so imply. How about /you/ toughen up and get out of this thread because we can view you as 'weak-minded' for even suggesting a poorer out than trying to deal with it in our own way? /sarcasm. It's infuriating to see someone so narrow-minded post about something they honestly don't seem to know anything about. And you know there is a thing called a 'coping mechanism', where you get a plan to deal with the situation that comes up instead of 'toughening up' towards it.

[Fuzzbucket]

So much this. I feel like your taking something as basic as sexist, The Evil Doer, and then trying to trump every argument with 'toughen up'. It's not your right, nor responsibility to lecture someone on how they deal with a situation as you so imply. How about /you/ toughen up and get out of this thread because we can view you as 'weak-minded' for even suggesting a poorer out than trying to deal with it in our own way? /sarcasm. It's infuriating to see someone so narrow-minded post about something they honestly don't seem to know anything about. And you know there is a thing called a 'coping mechanism', where you get a plan to deal with the situation that comes up instead of 'toughening up' towards it.

^this^ *applauds*

[Princess Artemis]

Internet hugs gotd!

 

Ylangylang, I had an encounter similar to yours, though not as bad. I was crying and the lady kept telling me to stop, that crying isn't going to solve anything, and that I needed to stop or else she was going to hang up on me and that I could deal with my problems myself. :/

 

This really is terrible >_< Crying can solve things. It expresses emotions and gets them on the outside and makes people feel better afterwards. Sometimes, having a good cry and knowing someone listened is the best thing in the world for getting one's head on straight.

 

Pretty sure The Evil One does not realize that depression is a mental illness, not a weakness of will or mind. I think he has no idea that a mind can be hurt the way a body can be hurt. Gives me the impression that he thinks if someone enjoys playing baseball, but is regularly spat on by thugs at every field they go to, it would be in their best interests to toughen up and suck it up and not let the bad guys ruin their fun instead of deciding it's not worth it and playing catch with friends at home. I could be wrong, of course, but that's what I gather based on his recent posts.

[The Evil Doer]

Ok... Im not gonna go at this again so I'll say it one last time and hopefully someone might actually read and comprehend it, if not so be it...

 

Mental toughness, handling things is a state of mind, its a concept, its NOT seeing a raped traumatized crying boy and telling him toughen up kiddo, its not a big deal, nowhere did I say anything remotly close to that, I have no idea how did you even get to that ?

 

I mean some of the responses are ridiculous, if I were considering a sucide I wouldnt ask you for help coz you would tell me to toughen up and suck it up thats beyond ludacris, who would treat a suicide threat like that ??? what is wrong with you people

 

Toughen up mentally means, through proper supporting system (friends family on your own or whatever) get yourself to the place where you will believe in yourself, to the place where you will understand that there is nobody thats better than you, that nothing some random ** over the net tells you can shake who you are which is an amazing person, the only one who can stand in your way is you yourself, and the only one whos voice matters really is your own voice !

You are strong and you can handle everythin life has to throw at you coz you believe in yourself as you should, thats waht it means to toughen up mentally, and its not achieved by telling someone "toughen up kiddo", each situation is a different one and each individual needs to get kickstarted in a different manner, but thats what everybody must want to achieve and thats what each and every one of you can achieve, you just have to believe in yourself coz you are your biggest enemy as well as your biggest ally !!!!

 

On that note poison oak is not out to get you and if you see a 5 yo kid who has just witnessed a massacre dont tell him "toughen up kiddo"...

 

Im out, peace

Edited June 20, 2012 by The Evil Doer

[Shienvien]

Am I the only person who, when attacking bullies back was brought to topic, thought that a quite probable outcome is that the situation might escalate entirely out of control? Punch them back, and the next thing one knows is that one's head is being slammed violently into the floor? Good, if one gets out of it alive, since such freak-deaths have happened.

 

(Now, I am what might be called a fearless person who can't be insulted, and who does not feel physically sick if set face-to-face with disturbing things. Sometimes it is a good thing and means I handle certain situations better. Sometimes it simply means that I put myself at more risk than necessary. Also, I am that kind of an odd person in whose case being alone will work out better than talking to someone if I am feeling off.)

 

 

Regardless, back to topic? I think greylight nicely brought attention to the fact that there is is a massive rift between being forced to and choosing to do something. One can choose to be the kind to wear jeans and T-shirts and do hard physical work, one can love cooking and cleaning and choose being at home with children (or like to move around with one's head covered, etc.). It seems that both ends of the scale will inevitably take flak, and those in between won't be spared, either. Worse yet, as was brought to attention, spouses and friends would not always be left out of the equation, either.

[Alpha1]

Pretty sure The Evil One does not realize that depression is a mental illness, not a weakness of will or mind.

 

I’m sure you know that there are different types of depression. I haven’t read all of The Evil One’s posts here, but I don’t think he’s referring to depression from bipolar disorder or clinical depression.

 

From his statement on toughening up and getting the strength from within, it seems like he believes in free will. Hence, I’m guessing he’s referring to situational depression, since many people think if you can’t cope with the outside trigger (judgment depends on what it is), it means that you’re mentally weak. Does it have truth? Yes. Some people can cope easier. Some people can’t. Do I share his view that you can magically get the strength from within, so there are no excuses? No.

 

[Ashes The Second]

^this^ *applauds*

No prob, Fuzz! :3.

 

But, in all honesty, i find it upsetting that someone with this sort of mentality can waltz in here and tell us their overly-offensive views. That's just not right, and honestly, I don't want to hear it. I've felt depressed, pressured, confused, angry, and a host of other things, and it could have easily led to rape. Some people you never forget for what they nearly made you do, not because, 'oh, toughen up or gtfo!'.

 

I hope I made my point clear, and hope you understand.

 

Oh, and to reply to this;

 

Mental toughness, handling things is a state of mind, its a concept, its NOT seeing a raped traumatized crying boy and telling him toughen up kiddo, its not a big deal, nowhere did I say anything remotly close to that, I have no idea how did you even get to that ?

 

You said exactly that about two pages back, telling someone to 'toughen up' because 'they spoiled someone else's fun'.

 

edit;;

Very glad you've -finally- cleared up your case, when you could have simply tried to answer our questions with a hint of decency instead of trying to fight logic with fire.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Ashes The Second

[Syaoransbear]

Ok... Im not gonna go at this again so I'll say it one last time and hopefully someone might actually read and comprehend it, if not so be it...

 

Mental toughness, handling things is a state of mind, its a concept, its NOT seeing a raped traumatized crying boy and telling him toughen up kiddo, its not a big deal, nowhere did I say anything remotly close to that, I have no idea how did you even get to that ?

 

I mean some of the responses are ridiculous, if I were considering a sucide I wouldnt ask you for help coz you would tell me to toughen up and suck it up thats beyond ludacris, who would treat a suicide threat like that ??? what is wrong with you people

 

Toughen up mentally means, through proper supporting system (friends family on your own or whatever) get yourself to the place where you will believe in yourself, to the place where you will understand that there is nobody thats better than you, that nothing some random ** over the net tells you can shake who you are which is an amazing person, the only one who can stand in your way is you yourself, and the only one whos voice matters really is your own voice !

You are strong and you can handle everythin life has to throw at you coz you believe in yourself as you should, thats waht it means to toughen up mentally, and its not achieved by telling someone "toughen up kiddo", each situation is a different one and each individual needs to get kickstarted in a different manner, but thats what everybody must want to achieve and thats what each and every one of you can achieve, you just have to believe in yourself coz you are your biggest enemy as well as your biggest ally !!!! 

 

On that note poison oak is not out to get you and if you see a 5 yo kid who has just witnessed a massacre dont tell him "toughen up kiddo"...

 

Im out, peace

Most people who are suicidal do ask for help, but most people don't understand and are unwilling to help because having a loved one wanting to die makes them uncomfortable. They sweep it under the rug. Plenty of people know I'm suicidal, but none have offered to help me. It's just too close for comfort for them.

 

Plus, no one takes you seriously until you make an attempt that brings you pretty darn close to death. Even then some will assume it's "just a phase".

 

On another forum I go to, a girl on there made a thread about how her mother's frequent suicide attempts are annoying. Yeah, she said 'annoying'. Her mother clearly needs help, is asking for it in the only way she knows how, yet the daughter chooses not to help and only focus on how her mother's suicidalness inconveniences her. People like this have no right being angry when their loved ones actually go through with it.

 

Plus, going through the amount of effort it takes to get better(if you ever do) so you can keep living when you desperately just want to die is extremely difficult, especially when your family and friends have chosen not to help you and indirectly give you the impression that they don't give a damn if you live or die.

[greylight]

thats beyond ludacris, who would treat a suicide threat like that ??? blink.gif what is wrong with you people

 

A lot of people would treat a threat of suicide like that. My wife Nin was told exactly this by multiple people when dealing with trauma bad enough to make her leave Israel. There is an idea that if someone threatens suicide, they are more likely not to do it than someone who is depressed and not talking about it.

 

There are also a lot of people who view threats of suicide as "attention seeking". Especially parents who don't think they're kid could be serious because "they're too young" or they can't see what's wrong with the kid's life. Another one is "they don't understand what suicide is."

 

You are strong and you can handle everythin life has to throw at you coz you believe in yourself as you should, thats waht it means to toughen up mentally, and its not achieved by telling someone "toughen up kiddo", each situation is a different one and each individual needs to get kickstarted in a different manner, but thats what everybody must want to achieve and thats what each and every one of you can achieve, you just have to believe in yourself coz you are your biggest enemy as well as your biggest ally !!!! 

 

Not everyone is strong enough to "handle everything life throws at them." People can be mentally fragile and not be able to do that.

[Rosedamai]

Evil Doer, I've read all of your posts, and I still disagree with them.

 

So I decide not to play a certain game, because I hate getting treated badly when I'm a girl. Yes, this includes over-the-top attention seeking. And then you call me mentally weak?

 

Let me ask you, why should I keep in contact with these people? To endure and play the game as if nothing happened? That seems to be what you want as an ideal scenario.

 

The thing is, I've no time, resource or emotional attachment to these jerks to keep on gaming. Gaming is honestly not that big a part of my life, and I see no reason why I should keep playing a game-smiling and enduring-when I don't have to. If it's a job, say, or a class, or a group of family members(whose hypothetical opinions I disagree with) then I WOULD stick it out. But the gaming community? Nah. Not much. I don't care about those people, they can all die for all I care, why should I care about changing their opinions or playing the game enough to continue playing? It's not like I'm being forced to play games or that I'm so addicted to games that I can do nothing else.

 

Do you think that they'd honestly give two s about what I say, angrily or not? No. It usually goes like-(if you're rebutting their comments about sexism)"Oh you're a feminazi!" (if you're rebutting their comments about racism)"Oh not the race card again!" Stuff like this. I don't see why I have to be forced to keep on enduring their comments for the sake of enduring.

 

I've taken worse comments in real life, which I got to deal with via long chat, or just ignoring the person and focusing on my work. What I don't understand about your logic is...why should I keep enduring and toughening up towards a community whom I feel no real attachment towards, with which I don't use up much of my resources, and which has a lot of viable alternatives?

 

And sigh. You're saying that all we can do is change individuals and if we do it enough, we'll change the big picture. You've also said that if you have good parenting and such, your child will be strong enough to deal with things in life.

 

With the former, think of those baseball-shooting machines. Now you turn it on hyper fast speed. You want to stop the balls from flying in your face, so you duck every which one. But wait! Sometimes there're multiple balls flying at you! You get hit by some of them! A better alternative would be to just shut off the baseball-throwing machine, IMO. And that's what me-and other posters-have continuously talked about when we mean systematic change. Going at it individually won't solve the problem, because it actually takes too long to reach every single person in the world, and even if we did, we'll have to do the same thing all over again when a new person is born.

 

To the latter, thanks for insinuating that my parents-and the parents of many, many posters-are bad parents. :/ It has got nothing to do with how mentally fragile, or sensitive, you are. My brother's pretty much a solid block of stone, and nothing can get at him. I'm not. And I'm pretty sure that we've had the same sort of parenting.

 

Most people who are suicidal do ask for help, but most people don't understand and are unwilling to help because having a loved one wanting to die makes them uncomfortable. They sweep it under the rug. Plenty of people know I'm suicidal, but none have offered to help me. It's just too close for comfort for them.

 

There are also a lot of people who view threats of suicide as "attention seeking". Especially parents who don't think they're kid could be serious because "they're too young" or they can't see what's wrong with the kid's life. Another one is "they don't understand what suicide is."

 

^This.

 

Another thing that happens that when you're suicidal is that people offer bogus help like "hey, life is good" and stuff like that. That never helped me. And then after they die, people go on and on about how privileged the dead person is and how, if I was in that situation, I'd never die, how you should be more tough, etc.

 

There was an article that I'd read the other day where a systematically bullied boy from a broken home put fire to his class because "he didn't want to go to school anymore." Although what he did was bad, in the kid's eyes he was trying to defend himself. You need to give him HELP, such as counselling, and get rid of those bullies, not tell him to just endure it and that it's what life throws at you.

 

ETA:

Toughen up mentally means, through proper supporting system (friends family on your own or whatever) get yourself to the place where you will believe in yourself, to the place where you will understand that there is nobody thats better than you, that nothing some random ** over the net tells you can shake who you are which is an amazing person, the only one who can stand in your way is you yourself, and the only one whos voice matters really is your own voice !

 

Uh...so why are you condemning My Own Voice when I've said, "I just don't want to deal with those people?"

Edited June 20, 2012 by ylangylang

[Kelkelen]

It's not true-- but I understand where the idea comes from. It's the "I don't rule their wardrobe, therefore I'm sexist" thing I don't get.

I think that just comes from a lot of Western culture's impression that women are forced to cover their heads or their whole bodies in cultures where they are punished if they don't. They see that your wives are covered and they probably just jump to the conclusion that you endorse them being punished for not being covered.

 

I'm not saying it's informed or tolerant or understanding, just that it's how some people's brains are wired. I don't think you can address it out of the blue, but if they're insulting you for it, you can certainly explain that it's their own choice, it's how they want to dress, to observe their faiths or honor their cultural heritages or whatever, and that it's of no importance to you what they choose to wear.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Kelkelen

[Rosedamai]

I'm not saying it's informed or tolerant or understanding, just that it's how some people's brains are wired. I don't think you can address it out of the blue, but if they're insulting you for it, you can certainly explain that it's their own choice, it's how they want to dress, to observe their faiths or honor their cultural heritages or whatever, and that it's of no importance to you what they choose to wear.

Mhmm. Some people just see certain religious practices with garments and such and automatically think "Hey! Oppression!" even when said woman is aware of other choices and is happily donning them. It's cultural insensitivity at its peak. One shouldn't, unless people are actually mentally, physically, being harmed, tell people that you shouldn't do something because in my culture this is not done that way, when people know of the alternatives to not doing said practice. I think there was a problem like this in another middle eastern country, where volunteers gave out soap to the women to wash themselves, only...in that particular region washing with soap implied that you were a prostitute.

[Princess Artemis]

Toughen up mentally means, through proper supporting system (friends family on your own or whatever) get yourself to the place where you will believe in yourself, to the place where you will understand that there is nobody thats better than you, that nothing some random ** over the net tells you can shake who you are which is an amazing person, the only one who can stand in your way is you yourself, and the only one whos voice matters really is your own voice !

You are strong and you can handle everythin life has to throw at you coz you believe in yourself as you should, thats waht it means to toughen up mentally, and its not achieved by telling someone "toughen up kiddo", each situation is a different one and each individual needs to get kickstarted in a different manner, but thats what everybody must want to achieve and thats what each and every one of you can achieve, you just have to believe in yourself coz you are your biggest enemy as well as your biggest ally !!!!

 

On that note poison oak is not out to get you and if you see a 5 yo kid who has just witnessed a massacre dont tell him "toughen up kiddo"...

 

Im out, peace

You know...if you had started out with something like this I think you would have gotten a much better reaction. There's a lot of truth in this (as a generalization). There's just not a lot of truth in, "That person is weak for not putting up with abuse."

 

And actually, yeah, poison oak is out to get you. That's why it's dangerous poison oak that can kill some people and not a sweet fruit that wants you to eat it : )

 

There are just some people I wouldn't trust enough to ask for help when I was feeling suicidal. After reading the last few pages of your reactions, I wouldn't have trusted you. I'm sure that away from the anonymity of the Internet, you're a different sort of person, and I gather that you're a good-hearted guy, I really do. I like you; you're probably really awesome in person. But I like my mom, too, and I didn't ask her for help because I didn't trust her reactions. I asked my dad because I did trust his.

[Fuzzbucket]

A lot of people would treat a threat of suicide like that. My wife Nin was told exactly this by multiple people when dealing with trauma bad enough to make her leave Israel. There is an idea that if someone threatens suicide, they are more likely not to do it than someone who is depressed and not talking about it.

 

There are also a lot of people who view threats of suicide as "attention seeking". Especially parents who don't think they're kid could be serious because "they're too young" or they can't see what's wrong with the kid's life. Another one is "they don't understand what suicide is."

 

 

 

Not everyone is strong enough to "handle everything life throws at them." People can be mentally fragile and not be able to do that.

ANYWAY - people can be normally "strong" and then something flips them It doesn't even have to be a BAD thing that triggers illness. The trigger that finally got me put in a psych hospital for my own safety was - my daughter getting engaged, right after both my daughters graduated and my SO got a new job. I was delighted - I LOVE the guy, who is now father to my grandchildren. But - as they said when they looked at things in my life - too much change too fast had caused me effectively to blow a fuse !

 

Mental illness is not something you can just pull yourself together and fix it. And - hell, I am on another forum where a heartbroken member told us of a case where no-one in her circle had believed a not particularly apparently depressed guy who said he was going to kill himself. He had hanged himself the next day.

 

We cannot make pat answers to this stuff, and "being strong" is not the answer to everything. There is no one size fits all answer to this, but not bullying others - for whatever reason - is a damn fine start - and stamping on the bullies - who often actually need help rather than to be bullied right back to show them, (and many anti-bullying education programmes are doing sterling work here) - rather than telling victims to man up (sorry, but it seems to fit the comments in this thread...) is NOT the way to go.

Edited June 20, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Ashes The Second]

ANYWAY - people can be normally "strong" and then something flips them It doesn't even have to be a BAD thing that triggers illness. The trigger that finally got me put in a psych hospital for my own safety was - my daughter getting engaged, right after both my daughters graduated and my SO got a new job. I was delighted - I LOVE the guy, who is now father to my grandchildren. But - as they said when they looked at things in my life - too much change too fast had caused me effectively to blow a fuse !

 

Mental illness is not something you can just pull yourself together and fix it. And - hell, I am on another forum where a heartbroken member told us of a case where no-one in her circle had believed a not particularly apparently depressed guy who said he was going to kill himself. He had hanged himself the next day.

 

We cannot make pat answers to this stuff, and "being strong" is not the answer to everything. There is no one size fits all answer to this, but not bullying others - for whatever reason - is a damn fine start - and stamping on the bullies - who often actually need help rather than to be bullied right back to show them, (and many anti-bullying education programmes are doing sterling work here) - rather than telling victims to man up (sorry, but it seems to fit the comments in this thread...) is NOT the way to go.

^THISTHISTHIS^

 

One size doesn't fit all reactions, and one reaction doesn't fit everyone. Please keep that in mind when posting. 8p

[Kelkelen]

TheEvilDoer, the following are the things that you said that I took issue with. Your most recent post advocated getting a support system and learning to believe in yourself, two issues which I absolutely agree with. However, you have said a LOT of things prior to that statement which I think are offensive and harmful, and you still don't seem to see how they could be taken as such.

 

Its not a lie at all, words harm only if you choose to let them

 

No. You can decide how you will ACT in response, but you can't decide how you FEEL. Hurtful words with hurtful intention... well... HURT. It's pretty callous to suggest to someone who's upset by bullying or abuse that it's their own choice they're feeling bad! (And whether or not you say it in those exact words, if it's your belief, believe me, it'll come across!)

 

if you allow me to hurt your feelings, a person who knows nothing about you, thats kinda your choice

 

Classic logic. "If you are hurt by something I said or did, that's your fault, not mine." Just no. If someone is hurt, the blame is on the hurter, not the hurtee. That means, not only do you place the blame where it belongs, but you also do *not* insist that the recipient of abuse only feels so bad because they are *choosing* to!

 

all people need to toughen up, not only women, world of animals and men is ruled by the simple rule "survival of the fittest" it doesnt matter if you have a girl or a boy you will need to teach both of them to bite back coz weak ones get eaten by the wolves... as simple as that, be a wolf

 

So the solution to cruelty and bullying is to dish it back out? Sorry, I choose a different path. Sure, you have to learn how to be strong and defend yourself, but that isn't the same as playing to the lowest common denominator, engaging in the same wrong, unacceptable behavior as those who attack you.

 

bully is bad, victim is never blamed, those two are facts we are all agreeing on, the whole point of the theme if you have missed it is to empower the victim into not being a victim anymore

 

Which you will NEVER do if you keep believing this idea that they are not tough enough to begin with, and need to get tough. That is just not how it goes. Tough people are affected by trauma the same as anyone else. What helps is to be able to place the blame firmly where it belongs, to understand what happened and be able to put it into words, to be able to acknowledge that someone did something wrong and bad to you, that you were and maybe still are hurt, that you had no control over it, and that it was not your fault. There's no real way to get better by ignoring the facts or the feelings that came from the original situation.

 

it just means she CANT log off from internet forever coz of it, that would be not handling it

If you cant handle things you need to work on believing in yourself more and on becoming more mentally tough

 

Logging off the internet forever =/= leaving many online gaming communities because you are receiving abuse while you are in them. Again, why do you insist that it is NOT "handling it," to walk away from an abusive situation when you have the free option to, without consequences? And why do you actually *chide* someone when they say they felt bad over how they were treated, felt so bad over such constant, consistent unfair treatment that they decided not to expose themselves to it any more? It's really patronizing to lecture gotd on having done "the weak thing" by refusing to waste any more time being insulted and harassed, and really unkind and counterproductive to scold a person for being wrong, invalidating their point of view, when they open up and try to explain how something hurt them.

 

mentally tough people dont commit sucides, the only reason a mentally tough person might have for a suicide is a principal, so when you;re bringing suicides up you're talking about people who are not strong enough mentally to handle stuff

 

This IS the same thing as saying "people who commit suicide, well, they were weak." Um, no. Just no.

 

bullies are just one of 1000 problems people face throughout their lives, eliminating (by fostering a culture, which will take a decade at least) bullies will not prepare you for other problems you will face in life, but if you are mentally tough you can handle both the bullies and the other problems... think big picture bullies are not your only problem

 

So... don't even bother trying to do something about bullying? For real? "Change yourself, not the bullies?" NO! Sure, learn how to cope with problems, but what is WITH this attitude of not trying to confront people for doing something wrong that's hurting others?!

 

if you let some censorkip.gif** you dont even know spoil the fun for you, shame on you ! to that reaction I could say oversensitive but I would much rather go with unacceptable !!!

To allow some random creep such power over something thats fun for you ? If you cant handle retards on the internet how you gonna handle anything in life at all

 

THIS is the problem. Right there ^. "Shame on you!" to the victim of bullying or abuse? Telling them they "allow" the mistreatment? Downplaying the situation as if it's just one or two random creeps instead of a prevalent experience in the majority of gaming communities, and as if the woman's "fun is spoiled" instead of "she's being viciously insulted for being female, hazed out, or sexually harassed, almost any time she even attempts to engage in this hobby without hiding her gender." Mocking someone who's been mistreated, for being unable to handle anything in life? You say you wouldn't say these things to a suffering person in real life, but you seem to have no problem saying them to people over the internet! "Shame on you, stop feeling bad, toughen up, stop trying to prevent bullying, dish it back out instead, if you feel bad it's your own fault." Those are ALL statements you've made repeatedly, in one form or another, and I disagree with your approach.

 

[Zovesta]

I believe a good deal of TheEvilDoer's logic comes from the idea that, well, there's no use complaining about something you can't change. That is, we can't change the fact that there are gonna be bullies out there, so you should just toughen up and accept it as a fact of life. And I'm going to be in the minority here and say that I agree with that. However, I don't approve of victim blaming in any way, shape, or form. Bullies are *es, yeah, but there'll always be there.

 

Also, we can change more than we think. ;] We may not be able to reform every *** in the world, but we can at least shut up a few.