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DragonMakr

Bullying

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Yet again I'm amazed at how immature people can be. I cut my hair into a mohawk over the weekend and when I got to class the girls that have been picking on me started in like vultures on a corpse. Comments like "Wow, did you get in a fight with a raccoon or something?" or "Did you know there's a dead squirrel on your head?" were the nicer of the things they were saying, a lot of which I can't even post here because of how many rules would be broken.

"I'm sorry, I must not have noticed. I was too busy staring at that idiot look on your face. Or didn't you realize...?"

 

"Hey, squirrels are cute. Can't say the same for you, frankly."

 

"Not exactly a raccoon. Your boyfriend just gets a little rough some times."

 

 

 

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"I'm sorry, I must not have noticed. I was too busy staring at that idiot look on your face. Or didn't you realize...?"

 

"Hey, squirrels are cute. Can't say the same for you, frankly."

 

"Not exactly a raccoon. Your boyfriend just gets a little rough some times."

xd.png why can't people with awesome lines like that be in my class, too?

 

Can you say insecurities? If someone feels the need to put down how someone else does their hair/is dressed, they OBVIOUSLY don't feel good enough about themselves to accept the fact that people are different O.o

 

the irony is they're all drop-dead gorgeous and extremely popular.

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I was very lucky in elementary school. We had a very small class, and our school was strictly anti-bullying. Nobody got bullied, aside from the occasional name-calling. Even the 'popular' group in our school was super-nice. Two of my best friends were the most popular kids in our grade.

That's what it's like at my middle school now. The "populars" always try to be nice, and the closest thing to bulling that ever happens is one of the many class clowns joking about the non-honors math kids, saying that they're in "dumb math." But the teachers take that more seriously than we do.

 

As for elemenatary school, I was bullied often. No one liked me, except for a few friends. I'm not really sure if she was the head popular girl or not, but she was mean. And none of my teachers in fourth grade saw it. They thought she was an angel. It wasn't until fith grade when my teachers started cracking down on her, because my homeroom teacher knew where I was coming from.

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Bullied?

 

Can't exactly say so... Although I must admit that quite often people made fun of me. And I remember that once in primary school I started crying in bed because of this.

 

But generally the occasionally mockery didn't bother me that much. I always considered it to be immature and stupid and usually just ignored it.

 

I had much MUCH more trouble with those that were nice to me, including my friends. They were all nice and friendly and actively including me in various situations - but it was always first others then me. Even for the "best friends" in my life I was only second best...

And in P.E. with my (mostly) nice and friendly and helpull classmates I was always the last over and second choice, and when we had to decide whom we wanted to sit next to in class, or in a bus or train or anywhere, I was the last one over and second choice as well... 12 years long -.- It might not sound bad, but really, it hurts up to today.

Occasionally I wished I DID have bullies just so that I had someone to blame but me.

 

In secondary school I sometimes was mocked as well and there was some stupid boy who sometimes made sexual jokes about me ("So does that mean we won't have sex tonight?" or *throwing a penny on my table* "Blow me." UGH!)

But that was so rare I don't count it as bullying. Anyway it only was "funny" because I was the shy, silent, flower-drawing, modestly-and-very-unexcitedly-dressed loner that just couldn't be imagined doing anything dirty at all.

 

It annoyed me very much, but it wasn't scaring or anything. Although I recently noticed that I can't imagine that I could be attractive to a guy. Today I dress good and fashionably (as opposed to even two years ago), and I know I look good, but when a few weeks ago some random guy complimented me on the street my first thought was "Oh yeah, VERY funny indeed!" and I angrily turned away. On second thought he sounded nice and honest and perhaps a "thank you" would have been better than my startled "WHAT!?". But well, it still isn't that long ago that people did only say it as a mockery. So, yeah.

 

 

Generally: some mockery, no bullying.

Edited by Bardess

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I went to an all-girls (state) grammar school for school years 7 to 11 (age 11 to 16), and that, as girl who loved computer games, disliked fashion and shopping and all things 'feminine', was not all that fun. I had a few friends, but we were definitely the sortof 'outcast' group. Luckily, being an ability selected school, we generally didn't suffer from the 'I'm gonna bully you 'cos you're clever' thing (which I loathe) but there was certainly lots of clique-y-ness. I've always been the 'I don't give two hoots what you think' sort of a person but I do remember being the target of some bullying, particularly when I was younger and less sure of myself, and being frustrated that people who were supposed to be bright could be so shallow.

 

I remember one particular occasion, in year 8 (aged 12 or so), one of the 'popular' girls showing round a particular album she'd just got (people were envious, it even had swear words in it!). I piped up 'Hey, I've got that album too' and she gave me the most confused look, and said 'But... but you're not cool enough!'. Apparently, I'd just shaken up her world view, lol.

 

I suppose I take a degree of satisfaction in feeling that I've done better than anyone that did hassle me at school (certainly academically). But tbh if I saw them now, I don't think I'd really feel the need to say anything - it's enough to know it myself smile.gif (besides, if I talked to them, they might spoil my feeling of smug superiority by saying they'd won the lottery or something tongue.gif)

 

It annoyed me very much, but it wasn't scaring or anything. Although I recently noticed that I can't imagine that I could be attractive to a guy. Today I dress good and fashionably (as opposed to even two years ago), and I know I look good, but when a few weeks ago some random guy complimented me on the street my first thought was "Oh yeah, VERY funny indeed!" and I angrily turned away. On second thought he sounded nice and honest and perhaps a "thank you" would have been better than my startled "WHAT!?". But well, it still isn't that long ago that people did only say it as a mockery. So, yeah.

I know this feeling too. I was a late blossomer so despite getting on well with few guys I did know, I was never the one with a boyfriend. It wasn't until sixth form when I went to a mixed college that I was asked out by someone (who, ironically, I had known in primary school, and who had for the large part ignored me) - and my immediate reaction was to assume that they were taking the mick. As it was, they weren't, but it took quite a while to get used to the idea that I might actually be attractive to a guy blink.gif

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I've never fit in to other people. I'm a shut-in now. I've been bullied basically all my life.
Back in elementary, I was not bullied much, but middle and high school were scaring. The end result is that I am now an inglorious shut-in. :/

I have a job, but I do not socialize with the people I work with, as it is a job that requires very little human interaction (luckily for me).

I prefer my family, my pets...and my computer, of course.

While I was never a big socialite, I can confidently say my socialization skills have severely declined. This is not necessarily a good thing, seeing as I am often persuaded (or forced) to attend small gatherings when people just start randomly talking to me.

People...I do not trust them. I do not let them in, I don't want to be near them, I don't want to talk with them...

If I came across someone that bullied me in the past, I would probably slap them. Hard. :|

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We're human. It's illogical to think that you can handle everything thrown your way.

 

Actually its illogical to think there is something you cant handle, we're talking about mental toughness here, mental toughness comes from within you not from some random factors of which you have no control, whether you fail to handle things or not is entirely up to you and nobody else but you, it is your choice and your choice only...

 

you fail a tough test

 

mental toughness = Im gonna take that test again, even if I fail 24 more times Im gonna get it right on the 25th time

 

lack of mental toughness = I cant handle failing it again, Im gonna drop it and switch majors or smth

 

you get assaulted

 

mental toughness = I know it can happen again but I choose not to live in fear, I am taking back the control over my life

 

lack of mental toughness = I cant handle being assaulted again, hermit world here I come

 

If you cant handle things you need to work on believing in yourself more and on becoming more mentally tough coz there is nothing you cant handle in this world but first step is to understand that concept...

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Ylangylang's a flower name. It's commonly used in perfumes/cosmetics/etc. It looks like this:

user posted image

 

Anyways,

 

3. lose faith in humanity and gaming community and stop playing the games you actually had fun playing.. That reaction makes no sense, if you let some censorkip.gif** you dont even know spoil the fun for you, shame on you ! to that reaction I could say oversensitive but I would much rather go with unacceptable !!!

To allow some random creep such power over something thats fun for you ? If you cant handle retards on the internet how you gonna handle anything in life at all  dry.gif

 

I didn't lose faith. I do either two things-a. make my ID an obviously "male" one, such as some guy's name from another game (like Warcraft) or b. Just not play MMORPGs not that much anymore. There's other fish in the sea, why should I do something that constantly annoys me? It's not a question of whether I'm handling things well or not. What you're asking me to do is like.....

 

"Ooh, look, I've got small, biting fish that's constantly nipping at my toes that I can't seem to get rid of. I'm going to move to a bigger pool before it gets too annoying."

 

"WTF is wrong with you? Stay and deal with it."

 

"Uh...no? LOL"

 

So ylanylang, when you say you have moved on to flesh games coz of it, I say WTF is wrong with you ? Is that who you wanna be ?

You are a girl, living in a world where we make all the rules and you choose to run away ? If you ever wanna be a strong independant woman you need to put that rhino skin on and be tough as a nail (on the inside, on the outside its up to you what you do) coz unlike us guys you will have to prove yourself over and over again, you need to flourish in those exact environments where you will be bugged 33 million times a day, thats where you build your character thats where you test yourself, thats where you succeed, and no matter whats thrown your way you keep taking it with a bloody smile on, in threads like this one where 99% of the feedback you'll get is supportive you dont really get to overcome adversity and all this equality talk is great but if your actions of backin it up are "I face a non friendly situation so I just run away" well thats like failing in life period...

 

If this offends/upsets you, GOOD !!! you know why ? coz 90% of the people wont care whether you're upset or offended, so get mad, stand your ground and give them hell coz either you put people in their place and receive their respect for it or you let them run you over, your choice, it is what it is whether you like it or not....

 

If this was real life, yes I would stand up to them. But I don't really see the point of debating with people who have very, very different views (i.e outwardly racist/sexist/homophobic/xenophobic/etc) than mine while playing games. I really, really don't. I really couldn't care less.

 

In real life, yes, I would stand up to them, because that's in real life, you have to interact with whatever that person is daily if you meet them in a job or in a class or whatever. Sooner or later you're going to get into confrontation with them, and so I'd like to clear up any issues and make compromises before I start. Never mind that in real life, I'm a "woman" living in a deeply sexist society, so my opinions regarding feminism and such, in some people's heads, automatically translates to "feminazi!!!". I say what I want to say, and that's it. It's a good way of insuring that no more unnecessary confrontations occur. It usually goes something like "I would rather that you not say those things at least in front of me because of a, b, and c." I don't think I can change real life people's worldviews-same as online gamers-and so I make compromises when I can. If I'm certain that I can change a people's point of view, then I try to do so. But usually that's not the case.

 

While gaming, I just want to have fun. That's it. I want to relax and enjoy what little time I have into playing games. I don't want to deal with douchbags online. I just don't. I don't have the time or the emotional attachment to people that I have to work on it. So I just don't "go there", so to speak. I usually go like..."LOLZ that's the best you can troll?" and that's it. There's a big difference between my strategies with dealing with people in real life and people while playing online games.

 

I don't see why you can't tell the difference.

 

ETA: Just in case you don't get it-it's like a difference between someone constantly getting hit by tomatoes while working, in which case most people would deal with it, and getting hit by tomatoes while playing at a certain area, in which case some people might deal with it, and some people might just move where there are no tomato throwers.

Edited by ylangylang

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Actually its illogical to think there is something you cant handle, we're talking about mental toughness here, mental toughness comes from within you not from some random factors of which you have no control, whether you fail to handle things or not is entirely up to you and nobody else but you, it is your choice and your choice only...

 

you fail a tough test

 

mental toughness = Im gonna take that test again, even if I fail 24 more times Im gonna get it right on the 25th time

 

lack of mental toughness = I cant handle failing it again, Im gonna drop it and switch majors or smth

 

you get assaulted

 

mental toughness = I know it can happen again but I choose not to live in fear, I am taking back the control over my life

 

lack of mental toughness = I cant handle being assaulted again, hermit world here I come

 

If you cant handle things you need to work on believing in yourself more and on becoming more mentally tough coz there is nothing you cant handle in this world but first step is to understand that concept...

That's seriously oversimplifying things. Feeling bad because you fail to meet a personal goal is a different matter entirely from being bullied by other people in *most* of the places you try to exercise your hobby: being called names, being treated like your sexuality is something up for grabs (or for sale, or for discussion), being preyed upon, being slandered, being insulted and threatened if you don't conform... those are all cruelties inflicted on a person by another person. Not meeting a personal goal doesn't usually indicate someone else willfully attacking you.

 

Being "able to handle" something usually implies that the "something" is a PROBLEM. Hence, whether or not you are able to handle it, it doesn't mean that the "something" shouldn't be addressed as a widespread problem with a potential solution.

 

"Toughness" is often used as an excuse for bullies to continue bullying. The responsibility is shifted to the target to ignore the cruelty, or fight back, or stop being so weak, or just decide not to be bothered, rather than being placed on the bullies not to mistreat people. Toughness is a *defense* against an attack or random fate -- it's not a *solution* to a problem. And we should all have open dialogue about how bullies shouldn't bully, rather than just shrugging our shoulders and taking it as the way of the world, "they'll do it anyway so let's not even try to stop them or bother calling them out on it, if we see them doing it to somebody else." That's another of those reasons people commit suicide.

 

Would you honestly tell a rape victim who is suffering from anxiety or depression, "you fail a tough test, stop being bothered by what happened?" Any human being who has undergone cruelty at the hands of other human beings has a lot of hard work ahead of them, and it's likely they'll *always* be bothered by what happened -- because it was something WRONG. They'll decide how to deal with it, or perhaps how to fight it, but that's not at all the same thing as just not being bothered by it!

 

And while online misogynist bullying isn't the same thing as rape, it's still a very sexualized form of attack, and can leave a woman feeling very invaded and devalued, plus constantly on guard, a feeling that is only made worse by other people insisting it's not a big deal and that the woman doesn't have any right or reason to feel bad. Of course she does! She's not being respected as a human being, and it seems like no matter where she goes, she's being demeaned and ignored and even threatened, then told that it's not a real problem.

 

Long story short, a woman can "handle" misogynist online bullying, learn how not to let it affect her view of herself, and STILL acknowledge it as a problem that ought to be openly addressed by the majority! It doesn't mean she isn't "tough" if she insists that something more needs to be done about it!

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-snip-

Kelkelen said it better than I ever could.

 

ETA: Telling someone who's suffering from cruelty and asking them why they cannot "deal with it" sounds a lot like victim blaming, IMO.

Edited by ylangylang

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Kelkelen said it better than I ever could.

 

ETA: Telling someone who's suffering from cruelty and asking them why they cannot "deal with it" sounds a lot like victim blaming, IMO.

I agree utterly. You really don't want to generalize stereotypes when there are people who can prove you wrong.

 

'getting over something' does not mean you don't deserve to feel bad about something. It means you eventually get over whatever issue you were having, not right away, necessarily. But to have the mindset of 'oh, GET OVER IT', is beyond cruel. What if you were raped? What if a family member died that you were close to? You would just 'get over it'? Nope.

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That's seriously oversimplifying things.  Feeling bad because you fail to meet a personal goal is a different matter entirely from being bullied by other people in *most* of the places you try to exercise your hobby: being called names, being treated like your sexuality is something up for grabs (or for sale, or for discussion), being preyed upon, being slandered, being insulted and threatened if you don't conform... those are all cruelties inflicted on a person by another person.  Not meeting a personal goal doesn't usually indicate someone else willfully attacking you.

 

whatchu talking about ? It was just one example, and the other one was about being assaulted so again whatchu talking about ?

 

Being "able to handle" something usually implies that the "something" is a PROBLEM.  Hence, whether or not you are able to handle it, it doesn't mean that the "something" shouldn't be addressed as a widespread problem with a potential solution.

 

You figure its best to solve person's one problem instead of teaching him/her how to handle problem solving in general ? That is a narrow minded way of thinking IMO

 

"Toughness" is often used as an excuse for bullies to continue bullying.  The responsibility is shifted to the target to ignore the cruelty, or fight back, or stop being so weak, or just decide not to be bothered, rather than being placed on the bullies not to mistreat people.  Toughness is a *defense* against an attack or random fate -- it's not a *solution* to a problem.  And we should all have open dialogue about how bullies shouldn't bully, rather than just shrugging our shoulders and taking it as the way of the world, "they'll do it anyway so let's not even try to stop them or bother calling them out on it, if we see them doing it to somebody else."  That's another of those reasons people commit suicide.

 

No its not, nobody is dismissing their wrong doings, however you dont wanna hope that the bad guys will come to their senses and become decent guys, you much rather have the victim take control over his life which will help him out in the future as opposed to solving one present problem.. let me put it like this, you said what will happen if one day you have a kid

 

lets say your boy is being bullied in school, you face two possible solutions

1. talk to bullies parents/teachers/bully himself and take care of the problem for your son = give hungry man a fish so he can eat today

2. explain your son that he needs to fight back, allowing him to solve his own problem, both now and in the future if those occur = teach a man how to fish so he can feed himself for the rest of his life

 

How can you not see that my solution is a better one as your deals with an "A" now, while mine will deal with an "A" now and "B-Z" if and when those occur

 

Would you honestly tell a rape victim who is suffering from anxiety or depression, "you fail a tough test, stop being bothered by what happened?"  Any human being who has undergone cruelty at the hands of other human beings has a lot of hard work ahead of them, and it's likely they'll *always* be bothered by what happened -- because it was something WRONG.  They'll decide how to deal with it, or perhaps how to fight it, but that's not at all the same thing as just not being bothered by it! 

 

Why are you comparing a physical trauma (like rape) to a test or verbal abuse over internet when there was a clear example of an assault (which is much closer to the rape scenario) there as well ?

Rape victims are indeed taught how to take back the control over their lives again, how to get back to living a normal life as much as its possible, becoming a hermit is not an advice rape victims are being given, the main thing rape victims are being worked on with is to get them to believe that they are not a victim... so again whatchu talking about ? Are you suggesting we should tell a rape victim its ok to not handle your assault and to simply withdraw from the world ?

 

Again, its not about solving one problem, its about getting a guy/girl to that place where they can solve ANY problem they encounter on their own, coz they are mentally strong enough to handle anything thats thrown their way...

 

bully is bad, victim is never blamed, those two are facts we are all agreeing on, the whole point of the theme if you have missed it is to empower the victim into not being a victim anymore and its irrelevant whether it was coz of the gender/religion/race/physical size that they were picked on

 

Now after reading all this, please do tell me with which part do you disagree coz I've missed it ?

 

And while online misogynist bullying isn't the same thing as rape, it's still a very sexualized form of attack, and can leave a woman feeling very invaded and devalued, plus constantly on guard, a feeling that is only made worse by other people insisting it's not a big deal and that the woman doesn't have any right or reason to feel bad.  Of course she does!  She's not being respected as a human being, and it seems like no matter where she goes, she's being demeaned and ignored and even threatened, then told that it's not a real problem. 

 

"talk all you want little man, after all talk is all you can do, hiding behind your computer screen acting all tough yelling at people thousand of miles away from you, had you been a real man you wouldnt need to do so, after all youre just a pathetic little excuse of a man thats hiding in his mom's basement with his tiny penis, taking out his anger issues on random women simply coz you've been turned down by each and every one you have ever encountered, keep talking little man, after all in years to come you'll still be a sad little virgin and this little contact with ladies over the internet is the closest you'll ever get to a real woman".....

its that simple to show you can fire back, 90% of the haters out there will think twice before they poke you again....

 

Long story short, a woman can "handle" misogynist online bullying, learn how not to let it affect her view of herself, and STILL acknowledge it as a problem that ought to be openly addressed by the majority!  It doesn't mean she isn't "tough" if she insists that something more needs to be done about it!

 

But Kelkelen, long story short, handling it doesnt mean she cant acknowledge it as a problem or discuess it, it just means she CANT log off from internet forever coz of it, that would be not handling it, thats what I was talking about..

 

Is it clearer now ? hope it is

 

@godofhtedead, we kinda said the same things, whether you handle or not handle something is entirely your choice, whether you're gonna be a sheep or a wolf all up to you, if you rather not have the mental toughness and be able to handle everything so be it...

 

ps - mentally tough people dont commit sucides, the only reason a mentally tough person might have for a suicide is a principal, so when you;re bringing suicides up you're talking about people who are not strong enough mentally to handle stuff....

 

EDit -

Telling someone who's suffering from cruelty and asking them why they cannot "deal with it" sounds a lot like victim blaming, IMO.

 

What you dont understand is that its not why cant you deal with it ?, its lets get you to that place where you are strong enough to deal with it on your own, coz chances are you will encounter more problems (even bigger ones along the way) and you need to be prepered to handle them.... bullies are wrong but eliminating this one bully wont help you in the long run, if we make you tougher, when next problem occurs you will laugh at its face...

Edited by The Evil Doer

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What you dont understand is that its not why cant you deal with it ?, its lets get you to that place where you are strong enough to deal with it on your own, coz chances are you will encounter more problems (even bigger ones along the way) and you need to be prepered to handle them.... bullies are wrong but eliminating this one bully wont help you in the long run, if we make you tougher, when next problem occurs you will laugh at its face... 

 

For that to happen we have to first get rid of the actual people who are bullies, foster a culture where it will not be tolerated, and then make sure it doesn't happen again. Only after that should there be a program to strengthen people and stuff. If we're not tackling the causes and overlooking the fact that there will be more victims of said bully in the future, what good is strengthening that one person?

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whatchu talking about ? It was just one example, and the other one was about being assaulted so again whatchu talking about ?

I was talking about your two examples not being comparable situations. Failing an exam isn't the same as being assaulted for many reasons, and a person isn't likely to react in the same way or for the same reasons, yet you give the same pat advice in both situations.

 

You figure its best to solve person's one problem instead of teaching him/her how to handle problem solving in general ? That is a narrow minded way of thinking IMO

 

No, I figure that when someone is having difficulty overcoming adversity, I won't lecture them on their shortcomings and tell them that they're failing at being tough. And I especially won't avoid saying that the other party actually DID do something wrong, and that people need to work to change that.

 

How can you not see that my solution is a better one as your deals with an "A" now, mine will deal with an "A" now and "B-Z" if and when those occur

 

I'm not sure what solution you thought I was advocating. The issue we were discussing was that many people dismiss misogynist internet bullying and sexual harassment as something that is NOT a problem to be addressed on a larger scale, but just a minor problem to be brushed off -- they say women shouldn't "let themselves be bothered by it," as if the women are the ones doing something wrong by feeling bad, instead of the men doing something wrong by sexually harassing or insulting the women. I was just pointing out that, if someone is being harassed, that means there IS a larger problem to take on, not just learning to cope with one specific incident that happened. I advocate both learning to cope with one's problems on a personal level, AND actively looking for solutions to the problem that originally hurt you, since it is probably part of a larger problem that is hurting others, as well.

 

So, I, too, am advocating solving not just the initial personal problem, but the larger issue of getting to the root of recurring problems.

 

becoming a hermit is not an advice rape victims are being given, the main thing rape victims are being worked on with is to get them to believe that they are not a victim... so again whatchu talking about ? Are you suggesting we should tell a rape victim its ok to not handle your assault and to simply withdraw from the world ?

 

Well, actually, some good advice might be to take things at their own pace. You can't force someone to feel safe again. You can't force them to trust again. Sometimes, a person needs a little time as a hermit before they have the *desire* to face people again, or the courage. That's okay. It doesn't mean that they failed at "toughness." I do NOT advocate telling a rape victim, "if you stay at home one evening -- or for several evenings in a row -- when you feel afraid, you're doing *wrong* and you're *failing* and you're not *tough.*"

 

Now after reading all this, please do tell me with which part do you disagree coz I've missed it ?

 

The part where you suggest that being affected by mistreatment is a sign of weakness, and purely a matter of choice.

 

"talk all you want little man, after all talk is all you can do, hiding behind your computer screen acting all tough yelling at people thousand of miles away from you, had you been a real man you wouldnt need to do so, after all youre just a pathetic little excuse of a man thats hiding in his mom's basement with his tiny penis, taking out his anger issues on random women simply coz you've been turned down by each and every one you have ever encountered, keep talking little man, after all in years to come you'll still be a sad little virgin and this little contact with ladies over the internet is the closest you'll ever get to a real woman".....

From my point of view, that was *really* spoken like a man. As a woman, I don't want to taunt anyone by suggesting that sex with a woman is a prize to be won through good behavior. I don't give a hoot about how big or small his penis is. I don't see anything wrong or laughable about being a virgin. Sex is not the measure of adulthood or manhood. I refuse to tease someone for not being enough of a man, because the implication is usually that they're womanly, and that is weaker or worse. I won't suggest that being turned down for dates is a sign of personal failure, lack of personal value, or a punishment that women inflict upon men. And the fact of the matter is, saying things like that doesn't stop the harassment from happening. Just read the link to the Feminist Frequency blog to see how that kind of thing goes down. Several people retorted to the misogynist bull-pucky that was being spread all over the place, but it did nothing to stop the flood of vitriol against women and feminism. So, there IS a larger problem, and it DOES warrant looking for some kind of solution, because the alternative is to either go away any time the men get aggressive, or else be willing to tolerate an AMAZING amount of crap and hurtful, mean, threatening, invasive behavior.

 

But Kelkelen, long story short, handling it doesnt mean she cant acknowledge it as a problem or discuess it, it just means she CANT log off from internet forever coz of it, that would be not handling it, thats what I was talking about..

 

Okay, I think we're coming at two sides of the same coin, here. But avoiding the situation IS one way of handling it, if that's what gives a person the most peace of mind, and freedom from abuse. Why should someone stick around and be abused if they don't *have* to be? To "prove" that they can "take it?" To "not let the others win?" Why stay if people are mean to you and it's a miserable experience instead of a fun one? Are you suggesting that someone can *convert* their bullying into a fun time? No... just like with people who are physically threatening, it's a perfectly reasonable option to avoid them.

 

ps - mentally tough people dont commit sucides, the only reason a mentally tough person might have for a suicide is a principal, so when you;re bringing suicides up you're talking about people who are not strong enough mentally to handle stuff....

 

...Sometimes people are ill with depression. It doesn't mean they aren't "tough," it doesn't mean they lack willpower, or that they haven't overcome many obstacles and difficult situations in the past. Other people, no matter how "tough," might act in the passion of the moment, without really being in their right mind. People commit suicide out of pain, wanting the pain to end -- and saying that they aren't "tough enough" or else they'd be okay is the same as saying they are weak for feeling that pain the way they do, which is something they can't even help. This is oversimplifying yet another very complex situation.

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For that to happen we have to first get rid of the actual people who are bullies, foster a culture where it will not be tolerated, and then make sure it doesn't happen again. Only after that should there be a program to strengthen people and stuff. If we're not tackling the causes and overlooking the fact that there will be more victims of said bully in the future, what good is strengthening that one person?

ylangylang, bullies are just one of 1000 problems people face throughout their lives, eliminating (by fostering a culture, which will take a decade at least) bullies will not prepare you for other problems you will face in life, but if you are mentally tough you can handle both the bullies and the other problems... think big picture bullies are not your only problem and you have more problems than me coz Im a white male....

 

Hey Jimmy, good news there are no more bullies in the world... three weeks later Jimmy kills himself coz his girlfriend left him, its so good we eliminated bullies for Jimmy instead of actually making Jimmy a stronger human being that can handle both being dumped and the stupid bullies...

Come on now, Im not talking rocket science here, its a simple concept and you guys arent dumb so I dont get whats the problem here, is it a simple being anti what I say or are you really not understanding the concept ? Just wondering ninja.gif

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Come on now, Im not talking rocket science here, its a simple concept and you guys arent dumb so I dont get whats the problem here, is it a simple being anti what I say or are you really not understanding the concept ? Just wondering ninja.gif

Well, you seem to be saying that people's problems, problems which affect their lives badly, often profoundly, are really their own fault for not being "tough" enough to ignore those problems, or not be affected by them.

 

The issues I have with that attitude are:

 

First -- not all problems can easily be ignored or walked away from, or else you have to give up something that you shouldn't ever have to, like being involved in online gaming, or going to school for a subject that you care about. So, there has to be a better solution than just "be tough."

 

Second -- Being tough," to you, seems to mean enduring crappy situations that make you miserable and not bothering to try and change those situations, since life is full of problems anyway, and there will always be another problem, if you solve this one. I don't understand this attitude of apparent resignation, that there's no point in even attempting to confront a problem rather than just suffering it in silence because you are "being tough."

 

Third -- You seem to be saying that teaching people to handle bullies means that they should be jerks right back, and/or otherwise be able to totally ignore the bullying and not be hurt by it. People can certainly control what they *do* about what they feel, but they can't actually control their initial feelings, and it's belittling (and rather crazy-making) to suggest that it's their own fault that they feel bad.

 

So, in brief, I disagree with 1) your suggestion that being bullied is not a "significant" problem and that people should put up with it, 2) the idea that only certain problems are worth trying to solve, and we should just accept the other ones even when they hurt us deeply, and 3) the apparent victim-blaming of "if you feel bad, it's your own fault, because you can just not feel bad if you decide not to, which is what a *strong* person would do."

 

I'm not being "anti whatever you say" -- but I am anti- these specific 3 points. I understand that you think people need to develop a way to cope with bad situations, but I really don't understand your definition of "handling problems" as "suck it up and don't feel bad."

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Well, you seem to be saying that people's problems, problems which affect their lives badly, often profoundly, are really their own fault for not being "tough" enough to ignore those problems, or not be affected by them.

 

The issues I have with that attitude are:

 

First -- not all problems can easily be ignored or walked away from, or else you have to give up something that you shouldn't ever have to, like being involved in online gaming, or going to school for a subject that you care about. So, there has to be a better solution than just "be tough."

 

Second -- Being tough," to you, seems to mean enduring crappy situations that make you miserable and not bothering to try and change those situations, since life is full of problems anyway, and there will always be another problem, if you solve this one. I don't understand this attitude of apparent resignation, that there's no point in even attempting to confront a problem rather than just suffering it in silence because you are "being tough."

 

Third -- You seem to be saying that teaching people to handle bullies means that they should be jerks right back, and/or otherwise be able to totally ignore the bullying and not be hurt by it. People can certainly control what they *do* about what they feel, but they can't actually control their initial feelings, and it's belittling (and rather crazy-making) to suggest that it's their own fault that they feel bad.

 

So, in brief, I disagree with 1) your suggestion that being bullied is not a "significant" problem and that people should put up with it, 2) the idea that only certain problems are worth trying to solve, and we should just accept the other ones even when they hurt us deeply, and 3) the apparent victim-blaming of "if you feel bad, it's your own fault, because you can just not feel bad if you decide not to, which is what a *strong* person would do."

 

I'm not being "anti whatever you say" -- but I am anti- these specific 3 points. I understand that you think people need to develop a way to cope with bad situations, but I really don't understand your definition of "handling problems" as "suck it up and don't feel bad."

^This. The whole situation of knowing that you should just "tough it up" actually makes some feel worse, for they still feel bad and now they have the added pressure of feeling that they shouldn't feel bad because they are being told they aren't tough enough.

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ylangylang, bullies are just one of 1000 problems people face throughout their lives, eliminating (by fostering a culture, which will take a decade at least) bullies will not prepare you for other problems you will face in life, but if you are mentally tough you can handle both the bullies and the other problems... think big picture bullies are not your only problem and you have more problems than me coz Im a white male....

 

Hey Jimmy, good news there are no more bullies in the world... three weeks later Jimmy kills himself coz his girlfriend left him, its so good we eliminated bullies for Jimmy instead of actually making Jimmy a stronger human being that can handle both being dumped and the stupid bullies...

Come on now, Im not talking rocket science here, its a simple concept and you guys arent dumb so I dont get whats the problem here, is it a simple being anti what I say or are you really not understanding the concept ? Just wondering  ninja.gif

No. You are totally not getting what I say. I may be strong or tough enough to handle those sort of people. But if you really look at it from the big picture there are people who aren't strong wnough or who may just resent at having to go through these things. Not to mentiom that it is unfair for certain groups to face an unnecessary hurdle to overcome in their life.

 

Think of it this way. As a white male living in a privileged background, your game of life is set on rhe easiest level. Other people, such as those from a different race, women, non-heterosexuals, people from lower social backgrounds, etc are playing the game of life at medium/hard/extreme mode. Of course if the person has good enough controls, or gear, they can have a semblance of those playing in the easy mode. But on a systematic level, lots of people don't get to cope with it. Not only that it makes them go through an unnecessary hardship in the game of life. It turns a blind eye to those who in the future have to go throygh an inherently unfair process.

 

What are you going to do, Evildoer, go to every single person who's been a victim of bullying, of a hard life, of sexual harassment, etc, and tell them individually to tough up? Isn't it a better solution to just do something about the inherent social atmosphere that fosters this behavior?

 

Of course people have to toughen up sometimes. We can't magically fix everything. But I'd say that if there is an inherent problem, we should look at the source and stop it from ever happening.

 

ETA: Bullying-a form of discrimination-and breaking up w a girlfriend are very diffwrwnt things. There are very different dynamics happening.

Edited by ylangylang

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lets say your boy is being bullied in school, you face two possible solutions

1. talk to bullies parents/teachers/bully himself and take care of the problem for your son = give hungry man a fish so he can eat today

2. explain your son that he needs to fight back, allowing him to solve his own problem, both now and in the future if those occur = teach a man how to fish so he can feed himself for the rest of his life

 

How can you not see that my solution is a better one as your deals with an "A" now, while mine will deal with an "A" now and "B-Z" if and when those occur

Here's another way to look at that:

 

 

1. Bully is learned to be ignored, problem not addressed with the bully. Bully goes on to bully 20 more people, one of which takes their own life. One person saved! 20 people hurt and one person dead.

2. Bully is educated and successfully reformed! Zero future victims from that bully. Unknowable number of people saved from harm and possible death.

 

 

So, how can your solution, which could result in a death down the line, be better than the solution which prevents the abuse from taking place?

 

 

Yes, people need to learn to take some forms of abuse and stand up for themselves. But the source of the abuse still needs to be addressed, or it will never end. Most of us want to see it end, not just learn to shrug it off and screw everybody else who suffers because they're "weak" or something.

 

"talk all you want little man, after all talk is all you can do, hiding behind your computer screen acting all tough yelling at people thousand of miles away from you, had you been a real man you wouldnt need to do so, after all youre just a pathetic little excuse of a man thats hiding in his mom's basement with his tiny penis, taking out his anger issues on random women simply coz you've been turned down by each and every one you have ever encountered, keep talking little man, after all in years to come you'll still be a sad little virgin and this little contact with ladies over the internet is the closest you'll ever get to a real woman".....

its that simple to show you can fire back, 90% of the haters out there will think twice before they poke you again....

 

Actually, that often just provokes them to further insult you and harass you and then you get reported for harassment and you get censorkip.gif ed over. See, that's what I've seen 90% of the time I see a person try to stand up for themselves. For all the people I've managed to educate by standing up to their BS, there are far more who just go "LALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU YOU'RE STILL A STUPID censorkip.gif SO censorkip.gif YOU *insert more insults here*" or who go "HOW DARE YOU SAY THOSE THINGS YOU STUPID LITTLE censorkip.gif, YOU'RE WORTHLESS NOW SHUT YOUR censorkip.gif MOUTH!" and things just escalate the more you try to tell them to STFU and leave you alone.

 

 

 

@godofhtedead, we kinda said the same things, whether you handle or not handle something is entirely your choice, whether you're gonna be a sheep or a wolf all up to you, if you rather not have the mental toughness and be able to handle everything so be it...

 

ps - mentally tough people dont commit sucides, the only reason a mentally tough person might have for a suicide is a principal, so when you;re bringing suicides up you're talking about people who are not strong enough mentally to handle stuff....

 

...You really have no idea how insensitive you're being, do you? You honestly don't understand that everything you say makes you come off as a callous jerk who has never actually been through hell personally. Maybe you have, I don't know. But I do know that it most certainly sounds like you've never been near to a person who went through even mild depression. And if you have... I can only pray you weren't the one to advise them.

 

 

From my point of view, that was *really* spoken like a man.  As a woman, I don't want to taunt anyone by suggesting that sex with a woman is a prize to be won through good behavior.  I don't give a hoot about how big or small his penis is.  I don't see anything wrong or laughable about being a virgin.  Sex is not the measure of adulthood or manhood.  I refuse to tease someone for not being enough of a man, because the implication is usually that they're womanly, and that is weaker or worse.  I won't suggest that being turned down for dates is a sign of personal failure, lack of personal value, or a punishment that women inflict upon men.  And the fact of the matter is, saying things like that doesn't stop the harassment from happening.  Just read the link to the Feminist Frequency blog to see how that kind of thing goes down.  Several people retorted to the misogynist bull-pucky that was being spread all over the place, but it did nothing to stop the flood of vitriol against women and feminism.  So, there IS a larger problem, and it DOES warrant looking for some kind of solution, because the alternative is to either go away any time the men get aggressive, or else be willing to tolerate an AMAZING amount of crap and hurtful, mean, threatening, invasive behavior.

Well said, very well said.

 

Okay, I think we're coming at two sides of the same coin, here.  But avoiding the situation IS one way of handling it, if that's what gives a person the most peace of mind, and freedom from abuse.  Why should someone stick around and be abused if they don't *have* to be?  To "prove" that they can "take it?"  To "not let the others win?"  Why stay if people are mean to you and it's a miserable experience instead of a fun one?  Are you suggesting that someone can *convert* their bullying into a fun time?  No... just like with people who are physically threatening, it's a perfectly reasonable option to avoid them.

 

I agree with this so much.

 

I have several places that I no longer frequent, because I simply don't like dealing with the rampant idiocy and trolling that occur there. I'm not "running away" or being "weak" for not putting up with idiots I don't have to put up with. I'm making the choice to spend my time elsewhere, and to put my energy into something I will get 100% enjoyment out of because I see it as a waste to put my energy into something I get 50% enjoyment and 50% abuse from. How is it possibly NOT a good thing to focus on doing what I like instead of something that is considerably less fun?

 

 

 

@EVil:

 

I think the biggest issue here is that you seem to be under the impression that we only care about solving one factor. I don't think that anybody is opposed to helping people learn to cope with problems in their life. But if a problem can be solved on a larger scale, it should. It's irresponsible to ignore a problem if it's no longer causing you trouble.

 

DECENT people try to stop the problems from hurting the larger group, not just take care of themselves and tell everybody else they're being weak if they can't rise above. That's the attitude of a person who is kinda a jerk, honestly, since it's obvious they don't care about attempting to stop the wide-spread and accepted abuse of their fellow humans.

Edited by KageSora

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I was talking about your two examples not being comparable situations.  Failing an exam isn't the same as being assaulted for many reasons, and a person isn't likely to react in the same way or for the same reasons, yet you give the same pat advice in both situations. 

 

Read them again, they dont offer the same advice, they just share the same state of mind thats all...

 

No, I figure that when someone is having difficulty overcoming adversity, I won't lecture them on their shortcomings and tell them that they're failing at being tough.  And I especially won't avoid saying that the other party actually DID do something wrong, and that people need to work to change that.

 

Telling her you were right to run away sweety, they are big meanies, you dont wanna play that game at all, lets go have us an ice cream... which is supportive and all that but how is that helping in the long run ? Problem is there, she didnt deal with it, when it happens in two weeks we're in a loop....

 

I'm not sure what solution you thought I was advocating.  The issue we were discussing was that many people dismiss misogynist internet bullying and sexual harassment as something that is NOT a problem to be addressed on a larger scale, but just a minor problem to be brushed off -- they say women shouldn't "let themselves be bothered by it," as if the women are the ones doing something wrong by feeling bad, instead of the men doing something wrong by sexually harassing or insulting the women.  I was just pointing out that, if someone is being harassed, that means there IS a larger problem to take on, not just learning to cope with one specific incident that happened.  I advocate both learning to cope with one's problems on a personal level, AND actively looking for solutions to the problem that originally hurt you, since it is probably part of a larger problem that is hurting others, as well.

 

So, I, too, am advocating solving not just the initial personal problem, but the larger issue of getting to the root of recurring problems.

 

Then I missed it coz since it was quoting my post I thought you were saying Im using toughness as an excuse, and that had nothign to do with the point I was making.... Sounds like we're talking about similar stuff...

 

Well, actually, some good advice might be to take things at their own pace.  You can't force someone to feel safe again.  You can't force them to trust again.  Sometimes, a person needs a little time as a hermit before they have the *desire* to face people again, or the courage.  That's okay.  It doesn't mean that they failed at "toughness."  I do NOT advocate telling a rape victim, "if you stay at home one evening -- or for several evenings in a row -- when you feel afraid, you're doing *wrong* and you're *failing* and you're not *tough.*"

 

Read that part (about rape) of my post again, there was no forcing into anything, hermit thing is never happening, nobody wont "force" you out of it but no psychologist will suggest you being a hermit not even for 5 minutes, suggestion would usually be to have people you trust around, pref to females (friends/close family).. Would really like you to show me where did I say something as retarded as the bolded part to a rape victim, how did you deduce that from me saying "helping rape victims to regain control and to try and come back into normal life while not feeling as victims anymore "(which is the only thing I said) is a puzzle to me, but really a puzzle... ninja.gif

 

The part where you suggest that being affected by mistreatment is a sign of weakness, and purely a matter of choice. 

 

Not exactly, changing your desired behavior (not playing the game, not going online, etc) coz you cant handle the mistreatment is a sign of weakness, thats what I said

 

From my point of view, that was *really* spoken like a man.  As a woman, I don't want to taunt anyone by suggesting that sex with a woman is a prize to be won through good behavior.  I don't give a hoot about how big or small his penis is.  I don't see anything wrong or laughable about being a virgin.  Sex is not the measure of adulthood or manhood.  I refuse to tease someone for not being enough of a man, because the implication is usually that they're womanly, and that is weaker or worse.  I won't suggest that being turned down for dates is a sign of personal failure, lack of personal value, or a punishment that women inflict upon men.  And the fact of the matter is, saying things like that doesn't stop the harassment from happening.  Just read the link to the Feminist Frequency blog to see how that kind of thing goes down.  Several people retorted to the misogynist bull-pucky that was being spread all over the place, but it did nothing to stop the flood of vitriol against women and feminism.  So, there IS a larger problem, and it DOES warrant looking for some kind of solution, because the alternative is to either go away any time the men get aggressive, or else be willing to tolerate an AMAZING amount of crap and hurtful, mean, threatening, invasive behavior.

 

LOL, Kelkelen you're freaking brilliant, you're analyzing a response thats meant to be offensive in a politically correct manner and explaining why its offensive ?

The whole point of it is to be offensive, you dont offend somebody by being politically correct or nice xd.png

In Diablo, any gaming community/forum, if a guy goes at you, and you bite back in an offensive manner like I did so, 90% of the guys who even considered poking you will simply avoid it coz you have showed you can bite back and that you wont hold back one bit, as simple as that...

Now you can be less or more offensive than me but the harder you bite back the better you're heard, rules of the game....

If you do it most of the guys will be like ouch, Im not messing with her xd.png

 

Okay, I think we're coming at two sides of the same coin, here.  But avoiding the situation IS one way of handling it, if that's what gives a person the most peace of mind, and freedom from abuse.  Why should someone stick around and be abused if they don't *have* to be?  To "prove" that they can "take it?"  To "not let the others win?"  Why stay if people are mean to you and it's a miserable experience instead of a fun one?  Are you suggesting that someone can *convert* their bullying into a fun time?  No... just like with people who are physically threatening, it's a perfectly reasonable option to avoid them. 

 

1. Coz you wanna play the game, thats why you were there for in the frist place anyhow

2.

a. you got bullied, you left coz of it, you are upset coz of it, you lost faith in humanity coz of it and you dont play the game anymore, you feel its unfair and you're right to feel that way (thats what we had here isnt it ?)

as opposed to -

b. you got poked by guys, you fired back, most of the guys were like blink.gif damn she shut this fool down, now you're a part of the community, you play the game, people respect you there and dont mess with you, you feel pretty damn good about yourself coz after all you didnt let anyone crap all over you...

 

If you ask me option b>>>>>option a both makes you feel better and makes you much more confident for your next "problem" and you will have another one (we all do) Maybe you dont agree with this, which is cool too...

 

...Sometimes people are ill with depression.  It doesn't mean they aren't "tough," it doesn't mean they lack willpower, or that they haven't overcome many obstacles and difficult situations in the past.  Other people, no matter how "tough," might act in the passion of the moment, without really being in their right mind.  People commit suicide out of pain, wanting the pain to end -- and saying that they aren't "tough enough" or else they'd be okay is the same as saying they are weak for feeling that pain the way they do, which is something they can't even help.  This is oversimplifying yet another very complex situation.

 

Mental toughness by definition means being able to use ones brain (mental) so being under the influence (drugs,pain, etc) takes the rational part out of the equation hence makes mental toughness irrelevant...

 

Some mental disorders are a simple wrong wiring of the brain (too much chemicals being released or too little) nothing you can do about that as it will mess up your reasoning skills, however when it comes to depression, look countless studies up, if you do decide to have kids, nurture your boy/girl into having a good physical and mental conditioning doing so will make him/her stronger physically and mentally (toughness = confidence, self-awareness etc) and reduce his/her chances of getting depressed, dont nurture your kids and you're increasing their chances of being depressed, depression is much higher amongst weaker/troubled individuals than amongst healthy ones and mental toughness is an important part of being healthy.

Mentally weak -> troubled -> depressed, its not a must happen but it increases the chances for it...

Edited by The Evil Doer

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Here's another way to look at that:

 

1.  Bully is learned to be ignored, problem not addressed with the bully.  Bully goes on to bully 20 more people, one of which takes their own life.  One person saved!  20 people hurt and one person dead.

2.  Bully is educated and successfully reformed!  Zero future victims from that bully.  Unknowable number of people saved from harm and possible death.

 

So, how can your solution, which could result in a death down the line, be better than the solution which prevents the abuse from taking place?

 

Yes, people need to learn to take some forms of abuse and stand up for themselves.  But the source of the abuse still needs to be addressed, or it will never end.  Most of us want to see it end, not just learn to shrug it off and screw everybody else who suffers because they're "weak" or something.

 

 

So, a kid tells his mom he's being bullied, mom goes to his home, forces his disfunctional family to work again in a manner she sees fit... makes sense

 

two weeks later a kid tells his mom he aint being picked for a pickup game of b-ball, his mom goes to captain's home, forces them into re-educating their son in a manner which suits her

 

a month later her son says this girl doesnt like him, off goes his mom solving his problems again... is that how it goes ?

 

You cant exterminate bullies from the society coz you dont have any control over what goes within their homes which has probably made them into what they are...

 

as an Educator/Parent your job is not to solve kids problem its to give him tools which will allow him to solve the problems himself.

 

Actually, that often just provokes them to further insult you and harass you and then you get reported for harassment and you get censorkip.gif ed over.  See, that's what I've seen 90% of the time I see a person try to stand up for themselves.  For all the people I've managed to educate by standing up to their BS, there are far more who just go "LALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU YOU'RE STILL A STUPID censorkip.gif SO censorkip.gif YOU *insert more insults here*" or who go "HOW DARE YOU SAY THOSE THINGS YOU STUPID LITTLE censorkip.gif, YOU'RE WORTHLESS NOW SHUT YOUR censorkip.gif MOUTH!" and things just escalate the more you try to tell them to STFU and leave you alone.

 

lalalala, sounds like its a forum of 13 yo kids.. I've never been to those, I dont have a clue what goes on there so I cant really speak about it....

 

...You really have no idea how insensitive you're being, do you?  You honestly don't understand that everything you say makes you come off as a callous jerk who has never actually been through hell personally.  Maybe you have, I don't know.  But I do know that it most certainly sounds like you've never been near to a person who went through even mild depression.  And if you have...  I can only pray you weren't the one to advise them.

 

LOL, I have friends who offed themselves, I have friends who suffer from PTSD, I have been through war-zones and seen stuff you dont even hear about on news, I have done interventions and been on countless suicide watches, I've dealt with walking zombies which shouldnt be confused with some sci-fi show but is in fact people who have "empty eyes" meaning they were broken in a manner that left nothing but an empty shell.. the sad truth of things whether you choose to accept it or not is that strong minded people come back from "hell" and its simply put inspiring, matter of fact even though I will allow myself to go on a limb and claim that Im tougher than you (mentally) I would feel truly blessed if I were to ever be half as tough as some of the individuals I have met, on the other hand, I have seen weak people simply give up coz they lacked the will to fight...

 

Call it insensitive as much as you like, it is the reality of things and if I ever go down that dark hallway for some reason, I want someone who will share my views to smack my ass back into fighting as opposed to having someone sensitive like you who will hold my hand while I slip away slowly...

 

@EVil:

 

DECENT people try to stop the problems from hurting the larger group, not just take care of themselves and tell everybody else they're being weak if they can't rise above.  That's the attitude of a person who is kinda a jerk, honestly, since it's obvious they don't care about attempting to stop the wide-spread and accepted abuse of their fellow humans.

 

REALISTIC people understand the larger picture and try to help the selected few coz thats all everyone can really do, and if each and everyone of us actually does just that, then we're helping everybody to help themselves instead of fighting windmills.

 

As long as you dont let governmnet interfere with parenting as well as fixating every child on the same social status while turning all the kids into little robots who will all share the same emotional/physical attributes there is no way of preventing bullying, if you dont get that, you're just naive....

Edited by The Evil Doer

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ylangylang, bullies are just one of 1000 problems people face throughout their lives, eliminating (by fostering a culture, which will take a decade at least) bullies will not prepare you for other problems you will face in life, but if you are mentally tough you can handle both the bullies and the other problems... think big picture bullies are not your only problem and you have more problems than me coz Im a white male....

 

Hey Jimmy, good news there are no more bullies in the world... three weeks later Jimmy kills himself coz his girlfriend left him, its so good we eliminated bullies for Jimmy instead of actually making Jimmy a stronger human being that can handle both being dumped and the stupid bullies...

Come on now, Im not talking rocket science here, its a simple concept and you guys arent dumb so I dont get whats the problem here, is it a simple being anti what I say or are you really not understanding the concept ? Just wondering ninja.gif

Being bullied has made me so much weaker than anything. Giving people the tools to handle situations makes them strong, not blindly throwing them into those situations and telling them to just deal with it.

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Please respect others. We have people who have been through a wide variety of situations and don't need attacked on here. Namecalling or insulting others isn't allowed.

 

~

 

lets say your boy is being bullied in school, you face two possible solutions

1. talk to bullies parents/teachers/bully himself and take care of the problem for your son = give hungry man a fish so he can eat today

2. explain your son that he needs to fight back, allowing him to solve his own problem, both now and in the future if those occur = teach a man how to fish so he can feed himself for the rest of his life

 

1. Yeah, addressing the problem of bullying and saying that it isn't allowed is solving things - or attempting to. As a community center leader, I am not the only big influence in a child's life. Even if they live to behave around me, parents, teachers, siblings, extended family, club leaders, etc. also have to push these values as well.

2. Nope. Then the kid who is being bullied? Now they are also in trouble. As a community center leader, if kids don't come tell a staff, they also get in trouble.

 

But yeah. I have put bullies in time out, written them up, and had them suspended. If the summer went longer, they would have been banned from coming back. Problem? The family wasn't backing us up, so the kid had no reason to change.

 

Teaching kids young that bullying is wrong and putting a stop to the behavior = good

Teaching kids to bully to get away from bullies just creates more bullies. I understand that sometimes a kid has no other way out and to save themselves they do need to use more violent measures, but that's certainly not every single situation.

 

Bullying is a vicious cycle. There is no simple solution. Certainly not as simple as the above example - in the quote or the example I gave.

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So, a kid tells his mom he's being bullied, mom goes to his home, forces his disfunctional family to work again in a manner she sees fit... makes sense

 

two weeks later a kid tells his mom he aint being picked for a pickup game of b-ball, his mom goes to captain's home, forces them into re-educating their son in a manner which suits her

 

a month later her son says this girl doesnt like him, off goes his mom solving his problems again... is that how it goes ?

Oh, but you have no control over the outside factors in your kids life that might make them "weak" and that are more effective than your parenting. :|

 

Tell me, why should I have to change my life, if I've done no wrong, to accommodate the unacceptable behavior of another person who is taking out their frustrations in life on an innocent? Shouldn't they have to change how they deal with their problems to avoid hurting innocents?

 

You keep coming back to ideas which are not related in any way. A bully with a dysfunctional family is nowhere near the same league as a girl simply doesn't like you. Dysfunctional families CAN get better, or you can rise above it as you learn more about how things SHOULD work and then you can go out and live your own life. You can learn from your family and learn not to repeat the mistakes they made.

 

 

If a girl doesn't like you, WHY doesn't she like you? If it's simply a personality thing, you're not compatible, and you can learn from that and find a more suitable person. If there's something about you that has caused more than one rejection, you can take that and try to learn from it to improve yourself, if it's something that can be improved on. (Such as hygiene, attitude, etc.)

 

 

Shifting the focus of the problem =/= solving the problem. Your kid toughened up and is fine now? Great! Oh, wait, the bully decided to target another kid, and that kid killed themselves. That is not solving the problem simply because it's not your kid and therefore not your concern.

 

 

You cant exterminate bullies from the society coz you dont have any control over what goes within their homes which has probably made them into what they are...

 

as an Educator/Parent your job is not to solve kids problem its to give him tools which will allow him to solve the problems himself.

 

Well they should just get "tougher" so they can deal with their dysfunctional family in a way that allows them to go about life without being an ass, since the rest of us are supposed to get "tougher" to accommodate their problems. :|

 

It's not about changing their lives at the family level or whatever--it's about educating them, and then they can change their lives and become better people.

 

And you know, that's absolute BS that argument. Bully has a dysfunctional family? That is not an excuse for if s/he bullies another person until they kill themselves.

 

People who are abused as children don't always turn into abusive parents--it's not that they just "toughen up" and shrug it off, it's that they learn how to be a decent parent from other sources and don't repeat those mistakes on the next generation.

 

lalalala, sounds like its a forum of 13 yo kids.. I've never been to those, I dont have a clue what goes on there so I cant really speak about it....

 

You'd be surprised how many "adults" behave in the exact same way.

 

 

LOL, I have friends who offed themselves, I have friends who suffer from PTSD, I have been through war-zones and seen stuff you dont even hear about on news, I have done interventions and been on countless suicide watches, I've dealt with walking zombies which shouldnt be confused with some sci-fi show but is in fact people who have "empty eyes" meaning they were broken in a manner that left nothing but an empty shell.. the sad truth of things whether you choose to accept it or not is that strong minded people come back from "hell" and its simply put inspiring, matter of fact even though I will allow myself to go on a limb and claim that Im tougher than you (mentally) I would feel truly blessed if I were to ever be half as tough as some of the individuals I have met, on the other hand, I have seen weak people simply give up coz they lacked the will to fight...

 

Call it insensitive as much as you like, it is the reality of things and if I ever go down that dark hallway for some reason, I want someone who will share my views to smack my ass back into fighting as opposed to having someone sensitive like you who will hold my hand while I slip away slowly...

 

You are the first person I have met who talks that way while claiming to have gone through such, insulting the very people who need such help the most (calling them weak for not being able to shrug off everything that's ever happened to them that sent them to the edge of suicide). The fact of the matter is, everybody reacts differently. If you had dared tell me "Just toughen up, only weak people do this" when I was suicidal, I 100% would have offed myself. However, I had people who talked to me, and helped me understand that it wasn't because I was a weak person, it was because I tried to be too strong and go it alone when I needed help all along, and that helped me learn to seek out help when I needed it instead of trying to be "tough".

 

Trying to be "tough" nearly drove me to end my life several times, because while I could do it on the outside I was never able to do it on the inside no matter how hard I've tried. Since I've abandoned the idea of shrugging off everything I've never been better. I accept that crap happens to me, yes, and I do allow it to get to me at times. But I understand that sadness, like happiness, is not permanent and have been able to detach myself enough to survive. That's not shrugging it off. That's taking the abuse in the hope that, like before, things will get better. And if it doesn't, I have people I can go to who will help hold me up while I try to get through it.

 

You may need somebody who will give you tough love. But others will take their own lives in response, because they will feel like they failed yet again and are worthless. What works for you does not work for everybody, and you need to understand that.

 

Also, I don't doubt that you're "tougher" than I am. But I wouldn't want to be like you--I'd rather be me, because I've found that being kind and understanding helps a hell of a lot more than giving nothing but a kick in the butt. Yes, that can help at times--I won't deny that. But it cannot help ALL the time. There needs to be a balance.

 

And why are people weak for not wanting to live in a world that treats them like crap then says "Oh just toughen up, or you're worthless"? We should strive to make the world a place that understands them and cares for them and helps them get back on their feet instead of telling them to "toughen up" or screw them. It doesn't say anything good about the world, IMO, when there are too many people who are so cold to those in need and don't see that a gentle touch can be just as helpful depending on the situation.

 

It may not be possible to completely succeed, but if we try, then we help our fellow humans and give them a new way to view the world. I can't see anything wrong with that.

 

 

REALISTIC people understand the larger picture and try to help the selected few coz thats all everyone can really do, and if each and everyone of us actually does just that, then we're helping everybody to help themselves instead of fighting windmills.

 

As long as you dont let governmnet interfere with parenting as well as fixating every child on the same social status while turning all the kids into little robots who will all share the same emotional/physical attributes there is no way of preventing bullying, if you dont get that, you're just naive....

 

 

Actually, just helping yourself and your own (giving your kids the power to stand up to a bully) doesn't help very many people. Especially not if the bully's parents are teaching them to bully others to assert their power or something. Then you have a fight waiting to happen. :|

 

And, actually, believe it or not it's entirely possible to allow everybody to have vastly different emotional and physical attributes while combating bullying. I've seen it in action when a group of people who have radically different views are able to come together and have a civil discussion, and are able to stop a person for continuing to harass another person. These people had conflicting views for the most part, but they shared the belief that allowing people to abuse their fellow humans was wrong, and that allowed them to behave civilly towards each other even through disagreements and to work together to stop a bullying issue before it got out of hand.

 

If we all share a respect for our fellow humans, we can really reduce a lot of the problems caused by bullying, racism, sexism, etc. That is not a bad thing for us all to share.

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