ANSWERED:New Biome: Wasteland

[Renorei]

There are loads of ideas floating around for how to fix the blocker problem, but from reading the various threads, all of them either get shot down by users or TJ seems opposed to them. So I figured I'd throw out a suggestion. This is a problem that needs to be fixed to keep DC fun, so regardless of which idea gets used, something really needs to be done.

 

I am suggesting a new biome called "The Wasteland" or "The Badlands" or "The Meadow" or something like that (I'm not sure if this is the best name for it. Please don't get hung up on the name, focus on the idea). It would be a place that has a lot of variety in terms of its natural features, to the point that every dragon breed could survive (but not thrive) there so it could actually have dragons from any biome. It would be a fairly dangerous area to live, for whatever reason. And although it would have a wide variety in terms of its natural resources, it would not be a bountiful, healthy place to live. For instance, the waters might be muddy and unclean, the trees might be small and sparse, there might be limited plant or animal life to feed on, etc.

 

The difference between the wasteland and the other biomes is that rather than it dropping eggs, it would drop hatchlings. It could theoretically drop hatchlings of any breed that drops in the cave but it would very rarely drop anything other than blocker breeds. From a canon DC-universe RP perspective, The Wasteland would be a place where wild hatchlings are often found who have been abandoned by their parents or whose parents have died or been killed or something like that. The text at the top of the biome would probably read something like:

 

"As you reach the wastelands, you occasionally see feral and sickly-looking hatchlings scurrying about with no adult dragons in sight. Some of the hatchlings pass by close enough to catch them. Which do you want to catch?"

 

If you see a hatchling you want, you catch it. Of course, to some people getting a free CB hatchling might seem too easy. So perhaps there could be some kind of trade-off? The trade-off could be that, since these hatchlings from the Wasteland have not had proper care from their parents and are living in an environment that is not plentiful, perhaps they are sickly and malnourished, and take longer to mature. The easy way to accomplish this would probably be to have hatchlings from this area automatically have 8 (or maybe even 9 or 10) days left to grow up rather than 7. So you'd have to wait 4 (or 5 or 6) days for it to be possible for the hatchling to grow up, rather than wait 3 days like with regular hatchlings. But nevertheless, it would take up a hatchling slot (which we have plenty of) rather than a precious egg slot, which most people don't normally want to waste on blocker breeds.

 

To make The Wasteland even more interesting, perhaps instead of the page being set up like the normal biomes, maybe the page shows a large image of the actual environment of the wasteland, and rather than the hatchlings all appearing in a neat little line, they could randomly appear in numerous spots on the picture itself. And it wouldn't be a "mystery egg" (or rather "mystery hatchling") image, instead it would just show the actual hatchling image. The cool thing about doing it this way is that it would probably have to be coded somewhat similar to the "Festival of Eggs" or "Trick or Treat" events except without the time delay and with more than one image appearing at a time. And if I remember correctly with those events, I had to enable javascript and turn off adblock in order to be able to collect the sprites. So if The Wasteland becomes popular, it might result in a bit more ad revenue for DC. I made a quick and dirty example of what it might look like. You can see an the example here. Obviously if this were ever implemented, the DC artists would probably design a custom image of the wasteland. But this is just an idea. It could be set up exactly like the other biomes with some kind of silhoutted, non-descript "mystery hatchling" image just like how it is with the eggs. When critiquing my idea, please don't zoom in on this one aspect of it (or any one aspect), but try to focus on the general idea.

 

 

 

 

Why do I think this is a good idea? Because breeds which often block the biomes would appear here in great numbers as hatchlings, and people are more inclined to grab hatchlings of breeds they don't want than eggs of breeds they don't want. So, fewer blocker eggs would appear in the biomes, meaning that more desirable eggs would appear in the biomes, and maybe the biomes would start moving again rather than sitting there with the same three eggs for minutes at a time. This would get people to actually raise the blocker breeds to adulthood in great numbers, so they would cease being blocker breeds because the cave wouldn't feel the need to make so many of them.

 

 

EDIT 10/09/11 - A lot of discussion has taken place in this thread about this idea. Here is a bulleted list of this idea's main points and some suggestions users have made:

 

-When hatchlings are caught they would have more than 7 days remaining before they run out of time. Anywhere between 8 and 10 days, whichever TJ thinks is best, to make the time to raise them comparable to a cave-caught egg.

 

-The breeds dropped here would be the breeds whose eggs normally "block" the biomes.

 

-The hatchlings caught from here would be caught as sick hatchlings to make them more tricky to care for.

 

-The hatchlings caught from here would start with 0/0/0 stats, making it harder to raise them because you'd have to get them all the way from 0/0/0 to stats where a hatchling would normally grow up from.

 

-Maybe the area to catch them wouldn't be an area with an image to hunt and click for hatchlings like I suggested. Maybe it would be something like the rough mock-up in this post. This would make it very similar to hunting in the normal biomes.

 

-Maybe the hatchlings caught from here would have a built-in freezing delay (suggestions range from 5 hours to 2 days) to prevent users from using this biome as an insta-freezer.

 

-Some users have suggested that when an egg sits in a biome for a long time without being picked up, it should roll over to the wasteland as a hatchling. Personally I think it would be much simpler to just identify the worst culprits of biome blocking and set The Wasteland so that it drops those breeds. But whichever way TJ prefers is fine.

 

-The location on the map for the wasteland would probably be on that bottom piece that looks like a backwards "J" that has those little ponds.

 

-For the hatchlings caught from this biome, their "hatched on" date would probably be the same day you catch it or the day before. Perhaps instead of having a "stolen on" date, maybe they would have an "orphaned on" date, which could be random or maybe it could be set to be a specific number of days from before you catch it. Or perhaps no "orphaned on" or "stolen on" date at all.

Edited October 9, 2011 by Renorei

[hazeh]

Oooh. I like this.

 

In my head, I thought it would be a perfect junction between caveblockers that have been sitting in the cave for long periods of time- from a RP POV, one could say that the "mother dragon" noticed the person standing there and decided to relocate or move the egg elsewhere, and thus it would end up in your wastelands and become a hatchling. Also, would the hatchlings have sickness to support your idea of malnourishment?

 

So like, after ten minutes or so, the egg gets cycled to the "wasteland" as a hatchling with the extended timer and sickness?

[Banuk]

Now THIS idea has promise. I'll be stalking to see how things develop.

[NivaTheDragonQueen]

OOH! I love this! I have always thought there should be something for hatchling dropping because you get egg locked, and then what? Oh, and it could be fore the eggs that block other biomes, if they stay there too long, they "hatch" and go to this biome! Thats a great idea, I hope it happens!

I really like the idea of the "festival of eggs" type catching, with the random hatchlings, thats cool!

[Chouette]

Niiice idea. I like it.

 

I'll definitely be stalking this thread =3

[Gluria]

This sounds really good. I will watch this thread too.

 

The biome could be called the prairie ... with smaller mountains, small woods, some rivers and lakes ...

I like

[AGYK]

Love the entire concept so far. I can imagine hatchies flying out of the wasteland; a lot of people get egg-locked and don't have much to do while they wait until unlock, but the ability to go get locked on some "blocker" hatchies would take care of both that problem and the cave-block.

 

Just one suggestion - have the hatchies in the wasteland go there sick. Most players know how to deal with this, so it shouldn't detract from gameplay too much, and the extended timer would just give the hatchie some time to get healthy again before growing up. (In fact, maybe make that part of the reason for the extended timer - "This hatchie is sick and needs extra time to get healthy before it can grow up.")

[hazeh]

What about something like, "the Abandoned Plains"?

 

Edit: Ah, maybe not. Just realized how similar that is to "Abandoned page".

Maybe just "Plains"?

Edited October 4, 2011 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[Gluria]

I have one question.

The hatchies in this biome wouldn't have any views so far, right?

So maybe you don't just say they need more time to grow up, but also a larger number of views.

Imagine a breed that needs 1500 views and 300 uv to grow up (random numbers), a wasteland hatchie would need 2000/500?

And probably they would get sick faster.

[jumpsnake]

I also strongly support this idea. Strongly. I agree that even if this idea doesn't go, something needs to be done. I think it would really help to keep DC fun.

 

There are a ton of great things about DC, the cave blocker problem seems to be the main problem. Certainly we can figure out something to fix it?

 

I wonder if a potential problem with this might be that when people actually needed an egg of a blocker breed, they would just go to the wasteland to get it, since it is already a hatchling? Therefore the blocker eggs would stay blockers. Right now the common/ uncommon eggs do seem to cycle somewhat, and I wonder how that would be affected? NOT shooting the idea down at all, but I would think this would need to be addressed.

[White-Sword-Master]

Darn Best solution I've ever seen, better then others, sure they were great, but this seems to be the one I like the most, I'll be stalking this thread....

 

About the hatchling time, well, it usually has 7 days, and so 8 or 9 are good, but that confuses me, if they are hatchlings and dying, wouldn't there time be less? I was more of thinking making it less time and having them all sick, b/c you know, they are in a wastland..... Maybe have it both, on an off chance of having an hatchling with 2 days or less.....and then another hatchling with maybe 10 days or more.....Sure incubate is nice, but generally I grab hacthlings b/c they are almost grown up and have little or less time.....

 

Just a suggestion, but still, great and lovely idea, and yea, I get the hatchling idea and having more time, but can't wait to see whats added to this....

[Obscure_Trash]

TJ said this about the cave scroll idea:

 

So this basically accomplishes the same thing that multiscrolling does: It holds eggs for you until you're unlocked and then you can grab them when they're ERs.

 

Which is basically what this does. Except for being a scroll, it's a biome. And except for being an ER egg, it's actually a hatchling.

 

~

 

I believe before we discussed (a looooong time ago) that we couldn't get cave hatchlings because they were more able to fend for themselves and could fend us off, as well as their parents were more apt to have to actively watch over them (since they're not just sitting there in a nest, but running around playing) and therefore more actively protect them, whereas we could grab abandoned hatchlings because the parents wouldn't want them after a human touched and raised them, anyway.

 

So I don't really see how this would work in an RP sense, either.

 

Sorry, but I think if anything really needs to be done, it's something else, but not this. ^^

[Shanthaia]

This sounds intriguing, tough I am not sure TJ will approve of a place that drops hatchies. After all the 15/18/21 slots are full when one incubates eggs anyway - there is no space really planned for extra hatchies. I just feel that an idea that keeps it to eggs has a better chance of approval (like the mossy egg idea)

Also I am not sure wehn I can have the very common breeds as hatchy if I ever would be tempted again to pick up an egg, thus making the blocking issue even worse in the other biomes.

But I am certanonly going to follow this. It is one of the better thought out ides on how to resolve the issues that came with the introduction of biomes

 

EDIT: got massivly while typing - so sorry for saying things that someone else said almost at the same time

Edited October 4, 2011 by Shanthaia

[SoulFang]

this is an incredible idea. i haven't seen a suggestion this good in a long time! I support the idea and will be stalking this thread

[hazeh]

TJ said this about the cave scroll idea:

 

 

 

Which is basically what this does. Except for being a scroll, it's a biome. And except for being an ER egg, it's actually a hatchling.

 

~

 

I believe before we discussed (a looooong time ago) that we couldn't get cave hatchlings because they were more able to fend for themselves and could fend us off, as well as their parents were more apt to have to actively watch over them (since they're not just sitting there in a nest, but running around playing) and therefore more actively protect them, whereas we could grab abandoned hatchlings because the parents wouldn't want them after a human touched and raised them, anyway.

 

So I don't really see how this would work in an RP sense, either.

 

Sorry, but I think if anything really needs to be done, it's something else, but not this. ^^

Mmm, I think you're missing something here, Socky. If this idea goes the way of having cave blockers transform into sick hatchlings after a certain amount of time of clogging the cave, I don't think it's anything like a cave "scroll". It's still the same creature, just in a different place with a different situation, just as easy or as difficult to pick up.

Where do Cave eggs go if they're never picked up?

 

 

 

As for the cave hatchling argument: That's why these hatchlings are sick, so they /can't/ fend us off. That's one of the biggest premises of the idea, is it not? Besides, if these hatchlings had parents that abandoned them there or parents that "died", and are basically just as parentless as they were as eggs, I don't see the difference.

 

[Valfaris]

That's one of the most interesting ideas I've read here in quite a while.

 

It's nifty, but the longer growing time and/or sickness means that we'll still have to be patient and careful with them. Hatchie slots are a resource, why not use them more?

This presents a nice change from the usual "grab eggs out of pity and toss to AP 5h later" or "rush them to hatch, gender, grow, hurry, hurry, I want to unlock to get something nice" (no speed-gendering those poor sick creatures), which is honestly getting stale.

 

Thumbs up!

[TJ09]

Some rambling thoughts that constitute neither approval nor rejection:

• I tried doing a real egg pile before. It was highly opposed; people prefer their orderly list of eggs, apparently (Because otherwise it becomes a motor skills game).
• How do you propose "CB" hatchlings show up? Make up a random "stolen on" date (or don't show an egg date)? Give them random amounts of views (or make them start at 0)?
• Where on the map would this be placed?
• How is the end result different than the cave scroll idea?

[Obscure_Trash]

Mmm, I think you're missing something here, Socky. If this idea goes the way of having cave blockers transform into sick hatchlings after a certain amount of time of clogging the cave, I don't think it's anything like a cave "scroll". It's still the same creature, just in a different place with a different situation, just as easy or as difficult to pick up.

Where do Cave eggs go if they're never picked up?

 

 

 

As for the cave hatchling argument: That's why these hatchlings are sick, so they /can't/ fend us off. That's one of the biggest premises of the idea, is it not? Besides, if these hatchlings had parents that abandoned them there or parents that "died", and are basically just as parentless as they were as eggs, I don't see the difference.

If they've never been picked up, why would their parents just abandon them to be sick hatchlings? They may not be as able to fend us off, but their parents sure will be able to.

 

Who says the parents died?

 

[biome intro], you see many large dragons scattered about, some with hatchlings. Nearby, there is a pile of several eggs.

 

You don't want to disturb the dragons, but some of the eggs are far enough away that you could steal one. Three of the eggs catch your eye. Which do you take?

 

Sounds like they still have parents to me. o3o

 

~

 

I would love free hatchlings like this, but I feel it just goes against the way the game is meant to be played. I don't really see how this is different from the cave scroll idea, except that it maybe takes a day or so longer to raise the hatchlings (but there's no ER'ing them from egg to hatchling).

Edited October 4, 2011 by SockPuppet Strangler

[CYDA LUVA83]

Maybe this is where the eggs that don't die in the AP go?

[Kila]

TJ said this about the cave scroll idea:

 

Which is basically what this does. Except for being a scroll, it's a biome. And except for being an ER egg, it's actually a hatchling.

 

~

 

I believe before we discussed (a looooong time ago) that we couldn't get cave hatchlings because they were more able to fend for themselves and could fend us off, as well as their parents were more apt to have to actively watch over them (since they're not just sitting there in a nest, but running around playing) and therefore more actively protect them, whereas we could grab abandoned hatchlings because the parents wouldn't want them after a human touched and raised them, anyway.

 

So I don't really see how this would work in an RP sense, either.

 

Sorry, but I think if anything really needs to be done, it's something else, but not this. ^^

I believe the concept of a "cave scroll" was so people could pick up blockers to get the cave moving and just...raise them. It was a separate scroll, making it a multiple.

 

This idea, from what I understand, is a new biome where anyone can pick up a hatchling of a blocker breed, cycling blocker breed eggs to this biome as hatchlings, which are more "desirable". I don't see how it couldn't make sense from a roleplay point of view, either. If a dragon dies while it has eggs, the eggs will hatch and have to fend for themselves. There won't be an adult to help them grow. If the hatchling has no wings, it still relies on its mother, as per the description. It's like a cave for hatchlings, not a chance to multiscroll. And hatchlings are more likely to be picked up than eggs, especially when it comes to blockers.

 

I mean, who's to say that X dragon breed is a good parent? Sweetlings are terrible parents. If a Sweetling's mate dies and cannot care for the child, the Sweetling won't be able to properly care for the hatchling. Just because it doesn't make sense to you right now, doesn't mean it can't work.

 

Young dragons are relatively defenseless. Their scales don't grow in until right before they mature, and they have almost no strength. Once a hatchling's wings grow in, it marks the beginning of maturation. At this point they are usually left alone by their mother and begin to hunt and survive on their own.

 

See the bold?

 

Hatchlings without wings are completely defenseless.

 

Now look at the italics. Winged hatchlings, ie, mature hatchlings, can fend for themselves.

 

I believe this idea is focusing on immature hatchlings- those without wings.

 

The only downside I see is how the cave would determine what a blocker breed is. Usually it's the users who decide what a blocker breed is, not the cave. The cave is just trying to balance ratios. Honestly, I like this suggestion. Otherwise, I think TJ needs to adjust the ratios of "blockers" so the cave produces less of them.

 

Edit: TYPOS, lol

Edited October 4, 2011 by Kila

[Renorei]

[*]I tried doing a real egg pile before. It was highly opposed; people prefer their orderly list of eggs, apparently (Because otherwise it becomes a motor skills game).

 

The idea of having the hatchlings show up in random spots on an image isn't crucial to the overall idea. I just thought it would be a fun thing to do to make this particular biome a little more interesting and different from the others. (If this is an aspect of the idea that makes you inclined to not use it, by all means, an orderly list is fine). Plus hatchling descriptions can get kind of long sometimes (longer than egg descriptions usually are, anyway) so I felt an image might make things simpler. And since this would only affect one biome, people who prefer the orderly lists would still have plenty of places to go.

 

[*]How do you propose "CB" hatchlings show up? Make up a random "stolen on" date (or don't show an egg date)? Give them random amounts of views (or make them start at 0)?

 

I would start them at 0. I think the egg date could just be left off entirely. Or if there needs to be something there, a random "stolen on" date could be used, but I think a better option would be "Orphaned on" or something similar.

 

[*]Where on the map would this be placed?

 

Probably down at the bottom somewhere on that piece that looks like a backwards "J".

 

[*]How is the end result different than the cave scroll idea?

 

The total time to get the dragon to adulthood would be higher than with the cave scroll idea, plus you'd have to be more careful with the hatchling since it would be sick or something. If they are caught with 8 days remaining, then it still takes 4 days to get them to an adult, whereas with the cave scroll idea, you can ER the egg in 15 minutes and 3 days later you have an adult. If they are caught with 9 days remaining, then it will take 5 days before you can have an adult, which is equivalent to an incubated CB egg. But since they would take up hatchling slots instead of egg slots, I think people would be more likely to pick them up even if they do take longer to grow, since we have plenty of hatchling slots.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Renorei

[Ice_SW]

The egg laid on date could be 3-7 days before the current day (Random number Gen. or just set it as '5' or '6' etc). It could hatch on the day we got it.

 

I'm not sure of the algorithm behind when/how a hatchling gets sick, so I don't know if it is best to assign the hatchling a random number of views that ensures it is sick, or have another calculation behind it to make sure it gets sick at 0 Views/Unique views/Clicks, and then the user has to raise it slowly or something.

 

Oh, and the hatchlings could potentially come from the AP? Eggs that miraculously survive the AP without being picked up, and so hatch sick? What about if the eggs land in the Valley/Delta? Some eggs from the biomes could get disturbed by the grown dragons (ex, accidentally kicking one into the river, sweeping one into a sand dune and having it roll off due to sand storms >.<) and roll to an area of (probably) lower elevation. The eggs then hatch, and the hatchlings are don't have their parents and are slightly sick from lack of care, etc.

 

Edit: 3 Days (Hatch egg) + Regular 7 days (for hatchling) = 10 Days, no incubation in exchange for not using the egg spots on the scroll??

Edited October 4, 2011 by Ice_SW

[IsmaielDeath]

We really could use that 'lake' at the cap (the mirrored 'J' s end) as 'grim pond' or something. The place would have water to drink and to live in (even if the water isn't the cleanest) and enough surroundings to make up a place where a dragon could struggle to survive.

[Fengari]

I like the general idea a lot, it's an original solution to the clogged cave problem.

 

Maybe the extra day to grow up wouldn't even be needed: as they start with 0 views, they would have to get to the required number of views for maturing on a quicker rate to mature on the 4 day mark, and getting so many views so fast will make them more likely to get sick (which is also in keeping with the idea of them being weaker because of the harsh conditions). It would make them a bit harder to mature successfully.

 

 

[olympe]

I believe before we discussed (a looooong time ago) that we couldn't get cave hatchlings because they were more able to fend for themselves and could fend us off, as well as their parents were more apt to have to actively watch over them (since they're not just sitting there in a nest, but running around playing) and therefore more actively protect them, whereas we could grab abandoned hatchlings because the parents wouldn't want them after a human touched and raised them, anyway.

Well, from another discussion earlier this year - or was it last year? - I remember that the eggs we find in the cave are supposed to be cast out by their parents because they're runts. So, if they are cast out in the first place, why would the parents suddenly decide to raise them, after all?

 

Since eggs can probably hatch by themselves, if they get warm enough from the sunlight, the hatchlings would be there, defenseless, orphaned and probably even malnourished.