Religion

[MedievalMystic]

They can be christians but they don't have to force their religion down my throat.

 

Is someone holding a gun to your head, forcing you to listen? And that's about anything. If you're in front of someone in RL that's talking you don't want to listen to and/or don't gel with or believe in, turn your back and simply walk away. If someone is talking religion online and you're not down with those views or beliefs, stop reading it. Problem solved.

 

Nobody can 'force' anything on you unless you allow it.

Edited May 29, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[sparkle10184]

Is someone holding a gun to your head, forcing you to listen? And that's about anything. If you're in front of someone in RL that's talking you don't want to listen to and/or don't gel with or believe in, turn your back and simply walk away. If someone is talking religion online and you're not down with those views or beliefs, stop reading it. Problem solved.

 

Nobody can 'force' anything on you unless you allow it.

When I hear "forcing religion" I think of people trying to mix church and state and make bibles a part of public school, etc.

[MedievalMystic]

When I hear "forcing religion" I think of people trying to mix church and state and make bibles a part of public school, etc.

 

I'm 48 and went to public school. Bibles weren't part of the public school system then and as far as I know they aren't part of the public school system now, so even if religious people have pushed for that it hasn't worked yet. I can't see that actually happening. That would be forcing religion on people, obviously, and I wouldn't want to be anywhere near the uproar if people on the other side of the fence actually thought that would happen.. I don't think people need to worry...

 

..unless, of course, there's some news I've missed that's got people concerned about it actually happening...

 

 

Edited May 29, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[catstaff]

I'm 48 and went to public school. Bibles weren't part of the public school system then and as far as I know they aren't part of the public school system now, so even if religious people have pushed for that it hasn't worked yet. I can't see that actually happening. That would be forcing religion on people, obviously, and I wouldn't want to be anywhere near the uproar if people on the other side of the fence actually thought that would happen.. I don't think people need to worry...

 

..unless, of course, there's some news I've missed that's got people concerned about it actually happening...

The closest I've seen to "forcing religion" in public schools was in Orange County in Florida where some Christian group or other managed to pass a law allowing them to pass out tracts, religious texts, etc. in the schools.

 

Only they didn't exactly think of all the consequences... they forgot that if ONE religious group gets to give away handouts, so do ALL the religious groups. Following a Bible giveaway, an atheist group wanted to do their own giveaway but they ended up filing a lawsuit because the schools tried to ban some of the books they planned to offer. And then the Satanic Temple got in on the act, filing a formal request to pass out their own material, including a coloring book.

 

As I understand it, Orange County has since banned the distribution of any and all religious materials in schools.

 

Links: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyathei...-distributions/

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/ed...0210-story.html

 

http://wonkette.com/572482/satanic-temples...-day-in-florida

 

 

[MedievalMystic]

Only they didn't exactly think of all the consequences... they forgot that if ONE religious group gets to give away handouts, so do ALL the religious groups. Following a Bible giveaway, an atheist group wanted to do their own giveaway but they ended up filing a lawsuit because the schools tried to ban some of the books they planned to offer. And then the Satanic Temple got in on the act, filing a formal request to pass out their own material, including a coloring book.

 

Lmao! I'm sorry, but that's hilarious. That gives new meaning to the words 'holy crap'. A coloring book? hahahahaha! What was the subject material the kiddies were to color? Dante's Inferno and demons? Guess they'd need to stock up on red crayons. hee hee

 

As I understand it, Orange County has since banned the distribution of any and all religious materials in schools.

 

That's probably for the best. lol

Edited May 29, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[Omega Entity]

I think I recall instances of some public schools down south having religious symbols displayed in school, and discriminating against students who practice faiths other than Christianity. I'll have to do a google search and see if I can find an article.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Omega Entity

[Emomera]

^^^ That's true. People get suspended/even expelled for this stuff. Smh. I don't judge based on religion. Personally, I'm an agnostic athiest. (i doubt there is a deity, but i could be wrong)

[Arcaster]

I am a follower of Buddhas' teachings.

[armadillosushi]

Question, not directed at anyone in particular:

In Christian or Catholic religion, is it possible to not be a sinner- or to confess/repent/whatever it is that makes you a good person in your god's eyes- without believing in that deity yourself?

[ThatAnimeKitten]

I'm an agnostic-atheist, but a few years ago I'd go to church occasionally for Catholicism.

[Esko]

I'm taught to be Lutheran, but to be honest, I don't feel an urge to be religious. Is that wrong?

[armadillosushi]

I'm taught to be Lutheran, but to be honest, I don't feel an urge to be religious. Is that wrong?

Of course not! Religion is an individual choice, and you don't have to follow what you were taught if you don't want to. If you want to identify Lutheran, that still doesn't mean you have to go to church every Sunday or any of the more involved activities.

[brisingrrider1]

I'm taught to be Lutheran, but to be honest, I don't feel an urge to be religious. Is that wrong?

I was born and raised in the Lutheran faith and I've never really felt I was a part of it since I started thinking for myself. I enjoy the sense of community with religious people (aka why I'm currently a Wiccan and not an atheist) but I discovered I don't believe in any of the stuff the Lutherans teach. The church also opposes many things politically that I am for, such as abortion rights and gay marriage.

 

Basically I'm trying to say that it's perfectly okay for you to stay with a religion you don't believe in for the sake of the people or community, but leaving is your choice and yours alone and you should do what is best for you.

[Shienvien]

More and more, I begin to feel that religion - for very many people - is more a stand-in for the club you're a member of rather than something to do with what they actually feel is right, and honestly believe in...

[Emomera]

I'm taught to be Lutheran, but to be honest, I don't feel an urge to be religious. Is that wrong?

I was raised Christian. I'm an agnostic athiest, but my family still tries to get me to go to church without knowing this... Its fine. My whole family is Christian. It really is a personal thing.

[Awdz]

Question, not directed at anyone in particular:

In Christian or Catholic religion, is it possible to not be a sinner- or to confess/repent/whatever it is that makes you a good person in your god's eyes- without believing in that deity yourself?

Let me explain my perspective on sin, as a professing Christian.

 

I believe we were created to be in a healthy spiritual relationship with God (and as part of that, with each other). I have heard sin defined as anything that comes between a person and God - anything that disrupts/prevents that healthy relationship.

 

All of us on earth have material bodies preventing us from having the full spiritual view of God. How/why our spirits wound up in physical bodies is a matter of debate; some argue that we existed spiritually before and took on/were put in physical bodies when we turned from God (metaphorically ate the apple), while others say we never existed before God created our spirit in the new physical body. Either way, we cannot readily see God (Creator, Holy Spirit) directly for ourselves, and our spirits cannot flourish without God. By our very nature (physical bodies), we are in a sinful condition. Thus, we need to turn to God to help us see, understand (at least some), and develop that healthy spiritual relationship. I believe God came to earth in the form of Jesus specifically as one means of reaching out to and teaching us.

 

Being good comes out of wanting to please God in the healthy relationship, much as you would want to do for any loved one. However, simply regretting/confessing/repenting of actions does not build a relationship in and of itself. We have to connect with the one we are in relationship with.

 

Here's a weak analogy: A person who never had a driving lesson gets in a car and causes an accident. That person can confess/repent/pay damages, but that does not make them a safe driver. They need driving lessons.

 

I am not saying you have to believe exactly what I do about God to have that relationship. Rather, I think everyone has a very unique relationship with God based on their own circumstances. While I find going to church spiritually nourishing, maybe you find hiking in mountains or crafting something to be fulfilling. The key in my mind, is that you recognize and connect with the higher power (that to me is God), building that spiritual relationship that will enable you to flourish beyond this world.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Awdz Bodkins

[Yeeyee]

Hi, I would like to know if there are any wiccans I can talk to, if so, please PM me because the amount of stuff that happens in the General discussion would quickly over ride this thread. It might not, though.

[zorua9]

may you who are religious please pray for my dog, as he died........

[elynne]

I've tried to take up religions at various times, but never been able to really believe in them. I suspect that ability is something you have to be taught at an early age, or grow up in a culture that includes it; I was brought up--not even agnostic, my parents just never talked about religion at all, and the West Coast liberal culture I grew up in was similarly silent. I had a few weird experiences as a kid because of my complete lack of information or context about religion (including being taken to a Catholic church service and thinking that Communion was "snacktime")--nothing bad, just strange and very scattershot.

 

I've known a lot of people since then of various religions, including a lot of "hardcore pagans" of various flavors. I tend to describe myself as a polypantheistic Zen Discordian agnostic, which sums up as "I'm not sure if any particular godlike thing exists or not, or if it really matters, but I like to have fun with the idea."

 

if I were to make a commitment to an actual religion, I'm pretty sure it would be either Judaism--I have several friends who are Jewish, and some things about it as a belief and as a culture really appeal to me--or Buddhism, specifically the teachings of Kuan Yin. but it's much more likely at this point that I'll just keep muddling through life with what I've got. Hail Eris and pass the hot dogs!

[AngesRadieux]

Question, not directed at anyone in particular:

In Christian or Catholic religion, is it possible to not be a sinner- or to confess/repent/whatever it is that makes you a good person in your god's eyes- without believing in that deity yourself?

This is one of the questions I kind of struggled with when I was considering going back to church. I know some Christians believe that the only way to be a good person is to follow Christianity's teachings, and anyone who believes anything else goes to hell. But that's just not a mindset I can buy into. I believe in a loving God, and I can't reconcile the image of a deity who would condemn a perfectly kind, caring, lovely person because they were of a different faith or no faith with one who supposedly loves all His children.

 

Anyway, one week the pastor at my church gave a sermon that kind of dealt with this issue, and his point was that God's love isn't something someone earns or comes to deserve, it's a gift given by the grace of God and we profess our faith as a way of giving thanks. So basically repenting/going to church/praying/whatever else isn't so much jumping through hoops to prove our worthiness in God's eyes, but rather a way of expressing that we believe in the gift of salvation and that we're grateful because even though He's given it to us even though we haven't earned it.

 

Basically, faith is just a means of expressing belief and giving thanks, not a vehicle one can use to say "God loves me more" or "I'm more worthy of Heaven", or whatever else it is people might say. Even the most devout sin sometimes. No one's perfect. But the beautiful thing is God knows we're flawed but loves His creations, anyway.

 

So, I guess the short answer is yes, I do believe that a person can be of another faith or of no faith and still be loved by God. I hope my rambling made sense!

[georgexu94]

I apologise; this post has the potential to attack a religion. However, the post is meant to be a ccontribution to the thread, as it might enrich our knowledge on our faith.

 

I do not understand some small Christian groups such as the Ignesia ni Cristo (INC). Firstly, it's strange how they do not celebrate Christmas and yet, some followers would expect Christmas gifts. Perhaps this is addressed mainly to the followers not the religion itself. Secondly, which is about the religion itself, is that it's stupid how they believe that they are the only true religion, and only they would be saved. [1]

 

And lastly, I still do not understand how they can compel people to give out 10% of their money as offering. I mean an offering should be given willingly, correct?

 

Sources:

[1] http://iglesianicristo.net/#2

 

Note to self: George, there are a lot more things you need to learn.

Edited October 9, 2015 by georgexu94

[xxBurningxx]

I've tried to take up religions at various times, but never been able to really believe in them. I suspect that ability is something you have to be taught at an early age, or grow up in a culture that includes it; I was brought up--not even agnostic, my parents just never talked about religion at all, and the West Coast liberal culture I grew up in was similarly silent. I had a few weird experiences as a kid because of my complete lack of information or context about religion (including being taken to a Catholic church service and thinking that Communion was "snacktime")--nothing bad, just strange and very scattershot.

 

I've known a lot of people since then of various religions, including a lot of "hardcore pagans" of various flavors. I tend to describe myself as a polypantheistic Zen Discordian agnostic, which sums up as "I'm not sure if any particular godlike thing exists or not, or if it really matters, but I like to have fun with the idea."

 

if I were to make a commitment to an actual religion, I'm pretty sure it would be either Judaism--I have several friends who are Jewish, and some things about it as a belief and as a culture really appeal to me--or Buddhism, specifically the teachings of Kuan Yin. but it's much more likely at this point that I'll just keep muddling through life with what I've got. Hail Eris and pass the hot dogs!

My experience is almost the same, in regards to never being taught a specific religion. My mother never really brought it up much, nor did she attempt to force what she believes in onto me. That's one of the big things that I really, really appreciate about my mom and how she raised me. She thought that it would be better to let me get older and then decide for myself how I felt.

 

Overall, I'd say that I'm teetering somewhere between general agnosticism and agnostic theism. I like the idea of some greater deity watching over us, but I'm not sure that that's actually the case. And I don't think that humans really have the right to say what may or may not exist. In the grand scheme of things, we're so little and insignificant, who are we to say whether something of that power exists?

 

However, the universe is so big and extensive, that I definitely think that it's plausible that some greater force lies beyond. There's just too much we humans don't know and can't understand to give a definite answer as to whether a god exists or not, or at least, not in my opinion and experiences. I know there's a part of me that definitely believes that there's a greater power out there somewhere watching us though, because sometimes when things get really bad, I actually do send a little silent prayer to "whatever deity that may or may not exist."

 

I think the thing I've settled on most is just this: we humans will never know for sure whether a god/s exist because it's outside our comprehension and we are not meant to know. And that's honestly something I'm content with.

 

(Then again, I'm only 16 now, so maybe one day my thoughts and opinions on this matter will change. )

 

///

 

On a more general topic of religion, and less orientated around my own personal beliefs, I think it's very important for humanity as a whole to simply respect other religions and their beliefs. I have an issue with extremists, but people like that exist in /every/ religion, and it's best to just ignore them in most cases. That said, I find other religions very fascinating and interesting, and I have no problem with people who share different beliefs as I do, as long as they don't try to shove their beliefs onto me or tell me what I believe is "wrong." And in return, I will never actively tell someone that what they believe is wrong, or try to convince them otherwise.

[Ælex]

There is something that I've been mulling over since the event that transpired about two weeks ago. I would like to share my experiences since the event, the things I've re-discovered, and the conclusions I've made. In conclusion, I would like to ask a question.

 

First off, let me re-state my position on the god debate:

Evidently I asked way too many questions to stay religious as a young child.

I stayed on the sidelines and watched as both my late little brother, and my cousin were both indoctrinated into the religious belief system. I found it absolutely disgusting how my religious relatives would use the naivete of a small child to propagate their ancient hokum, as the easily impressionable minds of children are not critical enough to demand evidence in order to accept a claim as reputable and true.

 

Thankfully, I managed to teach my late little brother how to be a critical thinker before he could be indoctrinated. Needless to say part of my clan, so to speak, didn't like the fact I was encouraging him to think for himself, and seek answers on his own, so tensions in my family grew. Needless to say, I am not on good terms with part of my family any more.

 

When I denounced faith, I had to come to terms with my own mortality. The inevitability of simply ceasing to exist at some point in time. as cold and foreboding the thought of permanently ceasing to be is, I came to terms with it, and found even greater value in the life I live right now. However, I never really considered how I'd deal with the experience of losing a close family member.

 

It was a harrowing reminder of what would befall all of us one day, in one way or another. I felt that familiar feeling of dread I experienced those many years ago, when I was struggling with my own mortality. Yet no matter how many times people kept telling me that little bro is "in a better place", I knew better. He was gone, all that was left of him was a cold decaying corpse, and a whole lot of memories.

 

Now, it got a lot worse, as since little bro's unfortunate demise, the religious nutters in my family are blaming me for "sending my brother to hell" by "turning him against god". I've had the same tired old argument again and again with them several times already, but you just can't talk to these people. They're like broken record players. It further disgusts me how they're trying even harder to push their faith on me and my religiously neutral parents by using my little brother's untimely demise. The event itself was awful enough, but they're just making it worse.

 

Although the truth doesn't always please us, and sometimes it may well horrify us, that doesn't mean you're right to plug your ears and go "lalalalala" when you are reminded of it. This is exactly what I see in those aforementioned family members I spoke of earlier in my response.

 

And now, to my question.

The thing I've been pondering is, is it really right to subject people to the "better place" theory, regardless of what their religious inclinations are?

I can think of upsides and downsides to both a positive and negative answer, but I'd like to read what you think on the matter.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Ælex

[Shienvien]

The thing I've been pondering is, is it really right to subject people to the "better place" theory.

I personally (being a materialistic realist and relatedly also atheistic) would rather people did not do it. One side of me says it's a blatant lie, and that we should rather accept the truth for what it is than deceive oneselves - in general, I set a lot of importance on personal integrity, and being able to truly trust rather than just hearing whatever someone thinks I might want to hear.

On the other hand, I feel it actually lessens the value of life (and meaning of death) as such. In a sense, not having a "better place" after that and knowing that this really is the only chance we have, can make people care more about what they have, be it not giving up their only chance as easily or actually living their life properly. I have met people who only live for the afterlife they believe in and thus never live their actual life to the fullest, and I've have heard, from psychologists dealing with problematic younger children, how some of them have actually gone forth and tried to kill themselves just to get to this "better place," too.

 

So yeah. This is the only life we have, we have to make the best of it, live it, and remember those who did not make it and carry on their legacy.

[Omega Entity]

On a more general topic of religion, and less orientated around my own personal beliefs, I think it's very important for humanity as a whole to simply respect other religions and their beliefs. I have an issue with extremists, but people like that exist in /every/ religion, and it's best to just ignore them in most cases. That said, I find other religions very fascinating and interesting, and I have no problem with people who share different beliefs as I do, as long as they don't try to shove their beliefs onto me or tell me what I believe is "wrong." And in return, I will never actively tell someone that what they believe is wrong, or try to convince them otherwise.

I refuse to respect other people's religions and beliefs, as to do so would mean that I would have to respect said beliefs that being gay is wrong, that women are to be treated lesser than men, that one race of people is superior than another.

 

HOWEVER. I will respect that people have different religions and beliefs. This is an important distinction to make from the above - I can respect the person and that they think differently than I do, but at the same time I can think that some of their dogma and beliefs are complete and utter rubbish without compromising that respect.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Omega Entity