Religion

[NobleOwl]

It's completely insane to think that NOT vaccinating is a better solution.

 

Is it a better solution for those parents who have been forced to watch their children die, be in incredible pain, go through organ failure, etc?

 

Here's my point: if someone looks into the odds of contracting a disease: for example, Yellow Fever, which according to the CDC is almost nil unless we're attacked by terrorists or you're traveling to another country.

 

And you look at the risk of major organ failure from the vaccine which is 1 person in every 250,000 doses, and half of those will die from it, is it so "insane?" I don't think so, and yet in some places people are running out and getting yellow fever vaccinations because of hispanic immigrants and/or fear of African terrorists.

 

If you look at a normal vaccine declared "safe" and realise that one in 400,000 doses could cause permanent brain damage, deafness, coma, etc -- and with something like MMR or TDAP, how many doses are given per state per year, you realise that the medical jargon of "safe" isn't necessarily what parents think when a doctor says something is "safe."

 

Is it safer than contracting the disease outright? Yes. But it's something people need to be informed of.

 

As someone who works in medical research, who has actually worked with testing vaccines and has been one of the people to go through incident reports -- they will look for any reason to say "Oh, this may not have been connected," or "Oh, this may have happened after," because you have a bottom line of wanting to get a cure out there, and 1 in 400,000 doesn't sound bad.

[TikindiDragon]

This

 

 

Also, as an interesting sidenote, I'm reading my statement of faith tomorrow, and being confirmed on the 19th. (protestant christian)

 

 

The statement of faith is actually really cool. It isn't just reciting a premade one- you make up your own. :0

Really? That's kind of... odd. Do you not use the Nicene Creed?

[Spelunker]

Nope!

 

Custom statments of faith, only $10! Buy one, get one free.

[Riverwillows]

I'm just curious, Spelunker, but why do you need to make a statement about your faith? Is it some kind of religious ceremony? For what?

 

[Spelunker]

I'm being confirmed as a Protestant Christian (So yes, a religios ceremony... quick, get the incense and chants!), and a Statement of Faith (at least at my church) is a way for you to express how you feel about your relationship with god, and how it works, because everyone's is different.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Spelunker

[Riverwillows]

Ah, I see. Yes, Catholics confirm too, only at 13 or so. I knew even then I could not do that, pledge to something I didn't feel right about, so I dodged it, much to my family's chagrin. I was right tho.

 

Congrats tho on yours. I hope it brings you peace.

[Spelunker]

I am 13.

 

I am pledging only to myself, and to God. It is something that I'm doing on my own terms, and my relationship with God is completely my own. I will never ask anybody else to believe what I do, unless they want to.

(I even omit the "under God" bit of the Pledge of Allegiance) So yes, I am completely comfortable with it, and it brings me peace. Thank you.

[georgexu94]

 

I have a feeling that this religion quest of mine will not give good results when I just wait for an answer here... Hmm, I also have a feeling I might go off-topic... zzZZz

[Spelunker]

What?

[TikindiDragon]

Nope!

 

Custom statments of faith, only $10! Buy one, get one free.

Just FYI 'Protestant Christian' isn't a single entity - it covers all non-Catholic, non-Orthodox denominations. Many of us do use the Nicene Creed, including Anglican (Episcopal) and Lutheran.

 

I've just... never heard of anyone not using it. The Nicene Creed covers to most basic tenants of the Christian Faith. Certainly in the CofE we affirm our Faith using the Creed at every Communion service.

[Spelunker]

Just FYI 'Protestant Christian' isn't a single entity - it covers all non-Catholic, non-Orthodox denominations. Many of us do use the Nicene Creed, including Anglican (Episcopal) and Lutheran.

 

I've just... never heard of anyone not using it. The Nicene Creed covers to most basic tenants of the Christian Faith. Certainly in the CofE we affirm our Faith using the Creed at every Communion service.

1. I know. I emailed my pastor, and found out that our church is United Church of Christ.

 

2. Now you have! We don't use many creeds. :3

[Riverwillows]

I have a interesting thought.

 

"Judge not lest ye be so judged"

 

"Love one another as I have loved you"

 

"Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you"

 

Are all from the Christian Bible.

 

The bible also tells how Jesus forgave prostitutes, sat down to dinner with unclean sinners, walked among lepers. It also talks about how he chewed out his apostles for elitism.

 

The christian faith is full of these peace-loving, gentle commands on how to behave and think.

 

NONE of these are apparently practiced with any frequency by christians of today. Seems to me, that the only passages I ever hear quoted or seen practiced, are the ones dealing with apparent rights to harass sinners (by their opinion), and do other acts of unfairness and violence, just because they don't like a certain behavior. They are always using the bible to justify these acts, which are in direct opposite to what their own bible teaches that Jesus preached.

 

So....why?? And to paraphrase my earlier post, if everything is done according to God's plan, why do christians bother to protest anything at all???

 

 

[TikindiDragon]

Not all of us. Not by a long shot. They're just some of the loudest (and, sadly, in some places the most common). Unfortunatly now, as then, people don't really want to hear what Jesus has to say. Just look at the reaction to my comments about Christians claiming they need guns for self defence. And don't even get me started on the 'Prosperity Gospel'.

 

As far as I am concerned being a true follower of Christ is not an easy path to follow. He asks us to do a lot of things we may not be comfortable with. He asks us to love everyone, and not just those we like and get along with. Some of those people can be very difficult to love! But we're expected to try our best, give it our all, face the scorn and ridicule of people who don't agree with us (And sadly, these days, many of those are people who claim to be Christian, but who don't like to see people actually trying to live a Christ-like life). And do it all with love, forgiveness, understanding.

 

Edit to add: @ Spelunker - were you aware that the website for the United Church of Christ specifically notes that the Apostles Creed is the 'Ultimate Baptismal Creed'? Looks like you *do* use them, even if you didn't know that's what they were called.

Edited May 7, 2013 by TikindiDragon

[siliconrose]

So....why?? And to paraphrase my earlier post, if everything is done according to God's plan, why do christians bother to protest anything at all???

As an outsider, it certainly seems like a lot of Christians get their religion wrong. It certainly doesn't help that many religious authority figures seem to be happy to advocate things which seem to me to be directly against the book upon which their religion is based. That said, I think some Christians protest "bad behavior" by others because they are truly concerned for their souls. Since most mainstream Christian sects believe in free will, exhorting on behalf of their religion could, theoretically, do some good, by convincing someone who would otherwise go to hell to make decisions that would lead them to heaven instead. This isn't a contradiction, because while the exercise of free will may be part of God's plan, the specific exercises of free will which a specific person might take are not necessarily following God's ultimate will (that people be good).

[Riverwillows]

Ok, I get that. But then, why do christians who proselytize, continue to harass even when it's been politely refused? And every christian I've asked says it is their duty, no matter what, to save souls.

 

Yeah, I'm sure God just LOVES all those forced souls dragged kicking and screaming into paradise.

[Emeraldmay]

Ok, I get that. But then, why do christians who proselytize, continue to harass even when it's been politely refused? And every christian I've asked says it is their duty, no matter what, to save souls.

 

Yeah, I'm sure God just LOVES all those forced souls dragged kicking and screaming into paradise.

Personally, I see that as people using their religion as a means to poke their noses into other's business, not the religion itself encouraging it. I have encountered people who have told me that they will "pray for me", but none who have attempted to convert me anymore than sending me "Prayers" on facebook, I kid you not. So not all religious people are like that

[Riverwillows]

Every one I've known HAS been like that. Every one. Even my own brother, who once poked fun at them, became 'them' on steriods, when he converted.

 

When will they learn that that kind of harassment turns OFF people, instead of on?

Edited May 8, 2013 by Riverwillows

[Spelunker]

@ Spelunker - were you aware that the website for the United Church of Christ specifically notes that the Apostles Creed is the 'Ultimate Baptismal Creed'? Looks like you *do* use them, even if you didn't know that's what they were called.

At our specific church, we don't use it. (as far as I'm aware)

[Herzein]

I feel like if I ever decided to settle down into a religion, it would be a more spiritual one. Say, based on the good deeds and the betterment of yourself

as a human. Like Buddhism.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Herzein

[TikindiDragon]

Every one I've known HAS been like that. Every one. Even my own brother, who once poked fun at them, became 'them' on steriods, when he converted.

 

When will they learn that that kind of harassment turns OFF people, instead of on?

I suspect you may have been coming into contact with some of the more... Charismatic/Evangelical branches of Christianity in the States. You've probably met a lot of Christians who you wouldn't have realised *were* Christian, because a lot of us don't make a huge noise about it.

 

I'd also like to think you know me by now And I'd like to think I don't do that.

[Riverwillows]

I suspect you may have been coming into contact with some of the more... Charismatic/Evangelical branches of Christianity in the States. You've probably met a lot of Christians who you wouldn't have realised *were* Christian, because a lot of us don't make a huge noise about it.

 

I'd also like to think you know me by now And I'd like to think I don't do that.

Yeah, I do know you. Lol...I think of you as the "Black (White?) Sheep" of the "family", cause yeah, I know you wouldn't do that. You are the odd one, at least, in my perception.

 

((hugs))

[TikindiDragon]

Yeah, I do know you. Lol...I think of you as the "Black (White?) Sheep" of the "family", cause yeah, I know you wouldn't do that. You are the odd one, at least, in my perception.

 

((hugs))

*hugs*

 

Yeah, I'm under the impression that my particular interpretation of being a follower of Christ may make me a bit of an oddity in the States. Especially given some of the experiences I've seen people on here relate. Thankfully I don't seem to be quite such an oddity here in the UK (at least not in my experience of Christians I've met here). I just fail to see how anyone who has actualy read and believed in the Gospel can behave that way.

[Riverwillows]

Well, no offense to anyone, but it's my personal belief that many people join non-denominational religious groups, BECAUSE they have an excuse to bully and harass.

 

And that people join organized religions just so they can be superior to others and have an excuse.

 

Not all, no, but many/most.

 

 

Just been my experience so far.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Riverwillows

[SarWildDog]

I personally identify as agnostic, though leaning toward atheism.

I was raised in a Christian church and as I got older, I began to question the teachings. Instead of being willing to have genuine conversations, the moment I began stopped following blindly, I was bullied, harmed, and had many negative experiences.

That didn't stop me though, as I still wanted answers. As I got older, I began figuring things out for myself and I decided that I no longer wanted to be associated with the religion. Doing so has resulted in my parents trying to cram it down my throat any and every instance it is convenient.

 

I've decided that I'm going to live my life without the guidance of any religion, but rather try to help others and be as morally just as I can.

I hate that people believe that you have be religious to have morals, because that is far from the case. In fact, I have met more moral atheists then moral self proclaimed Christians.

I also hate that the Bible is being used to justify actions that effect people outside of it's religion. My mother and I disagree on the topic of gay marriage and she says that I can't argue it because it's her belief and can't be proven wrong.

No, I can argue it, when it begins to infringe upon the rights of others.

[Spelunker]

No, I can argue it, when it begins to infringe upon the rights of others.

I wish other people would have as much sense as you.