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I just figured "not aware of the passing of time" is a simple, easy way to say that. After all--you can't be aware of something that doesn't exist! XD

 

But I do agree that eternity could simply exist outside of time. But either way I don't suppose it matters much--the end result is that you don't get bored by time passing, either because it doesn't exist or because you're unaware of it's passage.

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I do agree that 'not aware of the passing of time' is a much simpler way to put it! I simply wanted to clarify the difference. smile.gif

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If there was an afterlife, I wish it'd be like heaven in What Dreams May Come.

Aaahhhh.

I'D HAVE SO MANY POKEMON YOU GUYS YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW

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I don't believe in reincarnation but I can stomach the idea a little better. At least you become a clean slate and are unaware of past lives. That would make eternity seems less long, although more futile.

See, I find the idea of reincarnation unpleasant. The things that shaped me made me ME. Being reborn? That's not me, that's someone else. And I don't want to go through all that stuff again--it makes the time I was here pointless.

 

I mean, that means being a teenager again. Hellllll no. tongue.gif

 

My flippant answers though are 'cause despite my faith in my paganism, I'm not too fussed about the afterlife, and a part of me will always be skeptical. When I do choose to believe it, I kind of think people get to select their own preferred afterlife. But I follow my particular path, and so if there is an afterlife, that's where it leads me.

Edited by vintageandroid

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All of the stuff here has been 'somehow time goes away by magic'. Well it doesn't matter. Either you are aware for eternity or time just stops. If you are aware for eternity it is torture, if time just stops you are dead.

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Well I'm an atheist. I respect the views of people with other beliefs though, as long as they respect mine.

 

The thought that there would be a deity out there just makes no sense to me. I'm one of those people who need proof or at least measurable indications before I believe something.

 

I also think that when you die, that's the end. No afterlife, no reincarnation, nothing. If there would be an something after death, I'd sure hope it'd be reincarnation though. The idea of existing forever seems depressing to me. You'd get tired of it and there would be no way out, better have your memories reset then.

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Getting ready for Passover is EXHAUSTING.

 

And this year I can't even have Passover Coke, because there isn't any here. Bah humbug.

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I've always wondered how people survive preparing for passover! I'd pass out halfway through cleaning.

 

Then again, I'm bad with cleaning. tongue.gif

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See, I find the idea of reincarnation unpleasant. The things that shaped me made me ME. Being reborn? That's not me, that's someone else. And I don't want to go through all that stuff again--it makes the time I was here pointless.

 

I mean, that means being a teenager again. Hellllll no. tongue.gif

 

My flippant answers though are 'cause despite my faith in my paganism, I'm not too fussed about the afterlife, and a part of me will always be skeptical. When I do choose to believe it, I kind of think people get to select their own preferred afterlife. But I follow my particular path, and so if there is an afterlife, that's where it leads me.

Well, I don't think pointless. I believe that if you manage to learn a lesson, you're one step towards achieving Nirvana (the state of mind, not the band), and never being reborn again... And that everyone has an eternal soul that never really changes, no matter how man bodies it 'wears'.

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I've always wondered how people survive preparing for passover! I'd pass out halfway through cleaning.

 

Then again, I'm bad with cleaning. tongue.gif

I definitely have it easier than most. Since Talalitha follows marime law to begin with, and it's stringent on regular cleaning, I generally hit the pantry while she cleans the house.

 

Teamwork!

 

But it's still exhausting, haha.

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Well, I don't think pointless. I believe that if you manage to learn a lesson, you're one step towards achieving Nirvana (the state of mind, not the band), and never being reborn again... And that everyone has an eternal soul that never really changes, no matter how man bodies it 'wears'.

Oh, fair enough, pointless was likely not the right word. I apologize for that if it caused offense. I just meant that it's not an afterlife I'd choose for myself, but your explanation makes it sound much more appealing. I'll stick with my eternal Steak 'n' Shake afterlife or whatever it is. tongue.gif

 

NobleOwl, I'm glad it's a little easier for you, but I still tip my hat. CaduceusCade and I have been cleaning out closets and that's exhausting enough. And we don't have a deadline! wink.gif

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^That, depends on the judge. Either way, nothing that person says will change the judge's decision.

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I'm trying to find a captioned picture that I saw once and failed to save. It's this image http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/mem...96a0410ee11.gif , but it's captioned to say something about how atheists were tortured and executed for their beliefs and christians get upset when atheists make fun of them, balh blah blah, something along that line. Does anyone have it? I've searched for it a million different ways and I just can't find it.

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Don't know for exact one, but there's bazillion of them with the same message on internet.

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Don't know for exact one, but there's bazillion of them with the same message on internet.

I can't find ANY of them and it's driving me nuts. I googled searched those types of phrases and I can't pull up anything.

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I've known many like that judge. No one will ever convince him, not even if aliens land down in front of him, and tell him so. You could bring all the evidence in the world to him, prove beyond doubt for everyone else.....but if the judge is that determined, he'll ignore it and say its fake.

 

All too familiar to me.

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I'm trying to find a captioned picture that I saw once and failed to save. It's this image http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/mem...96a0410ee11.gif , but it's captioned to say something about how atheists were tortured and executed for their beliefs and christians get upset when atheists make fun of them, balh blah blah, something along that line. Does anyone have it? I've searched for it a million different ways and I just can't find it.

No offense, Christians, but this is one of the reasons I left Christianity. As I've already stated, I'm a Noahide, and worship the God of Judaism (I don't believe Yahshua is God, as Christians do), though I still believe Yahushua (Jesus) is the Messiah. I can't find it in me to accept Paul's blasphemous doctrines–especially those of predestination, nullification of the Law, and salvation through faith.

 

The notion that a man like Gandhi, who did a huge amount of good, would be damned for not believing in Yahshua, while a man like Hitler could say, "Jesus come into my heart" and spend his eternity on the streets of gold is repulsive and makes God out to be irrational and possessing no kindness whatsoever.

 

Likewise, nullification of the Law, which was part of the covenant that God declared would last until the end of the Earth, is blasphemous because it makes God out to be a liar.

 

And predestination is the worst of all. The idea that God damns or saves people depending in how God made them behave is the most repulsive and blasphemous of them all. Never mind the passages of the Bible that show this to be false, the notion that God would damn people for submitting to his will is utter blasphemy.

 

In short, belief in Paul's doctrines cannot be reconciled with "You shall love YHWH your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might." It is impossible to love a ruthless, irrational, tyrannical god.

 

But the attitude of Christians, who believe salvation is attained through faith, is usually very 'holier-than-thou.' And since they don't tend to think works are important, this has allowed the burnings and torturings of heretics. Now I'm not saying all Christians are like that–far from it–, but it does make such cases more common. You never hear about Jews torturing unbelievers, or Buddhists killing those who don't agree with them. The only other modern religon which does this is Islam (though for political reasons mostly. The religon itself prohibits the violence which is being commited in the Middle East).

 

Feel free to attack my view.

 

I apologize to any Christians this may offend. Again, I don't think most Christians are bloodthirsty murders, it's just my explanation as to why throughout history Christians have been so violent.

 

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Honestly, I kinda half like the idea of predestination.

 

It means I can do whatever the hell I want.

 

If I'm not destined for salvation, then I don't have to stress myself out struggling to follow a religion I have no faith.

 

If I am destined for salvation, then I can still do whatever the hell I want because my transition to thinking and acting as befits one of the saved will come naturally on it's own without being forced on my end as it will all be part of God's plan.

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No offense, Christians, but this is one of the reasons I left Christianity. As I've already stated, I'm a Noahide, and worship the God of Judaism (I don't believe Yahshua is God, as Christians do), though I still believe Yahushua (Jesus) is the Messiah. I can't find it in me to accept Paul's blasphemous doctrines–especially those of predestination, nullification of the Law, and salvation through faith.

*sighs* It sounds like you are putting all Christians into one narrow, bigoted group. The interpretations and applications of scripture are so varied that some self-proclaimed Christian groups deny that other self-proclaimed Christian groups actually are Christian.

 

I do not know how many Christians believe in predestination. I do not and am not sure why some do. I understand the scriptures to say that we have hope because we can choose to accept God's gifts despite having turned away in the past.

 

I suppose someone who adheres to following all of the OT laws literally despite how much society has changed would consider it "nullification of the Law" to vary from them. If I misunderstand what you are getting at, please clarify.

 

Salvation through faith is very important IMO. We cannot do anything more or better than God can; we cannot possibly give God as much as we have been given by God. How then can we possibly do God any real favors, or make up for damaging even the least part of creation? It is not through rituals or striving to be perfect that we earn salvation, yet having made poor decisions (sinning) we need to be reconciled with God somehow. That is where turning our hearts to God in faith that God will help us get back on track comes in.

 

The notion that a man like Gandhi, who did a huge amount of good, would be damned for not believing in Yahshua, while a man like Hitler could say, "Jesus come into my heart" and spend his eternity on the streets of gold is repulsive and makes God out to be irrational and possessing no kindness whatsoever.

First, not all Christians believe this. I believe that it is not a matter of believing in God so much as, when confronted with the reality of God (when we die), accepting or refusing to accept the authority of our Creator. Second, I am not about to presume to know what the relationship of either Gandhi or Hitler is/was with God or why. I do not consider God to be limited to our level of understanding.

 

Likewise, nullification of the Law, which was part of the covenant that God declared would last until the end of the Earth, is blasphemous because it makes God out to be a liar.

I guess it depends on how you interpret the Law - literally or by intent, and on what basis. Anyone can twist scripture like a statistician twists numbers, to show what they want it to.

 

And predestination is the worst of all. The idea that God damns or saves people depending in how God made them behave is the most repulsive and blasphemous of them all. Never mind the passages of the Bible that show this to be false, the notion that God would damn people for submitting to his will is utter blasphemy.

I agree with you on this one. I think most Christians would, though perhaps not the most vocal ones.

 

In short, belief in Paul's doctrines cannot be reconciled with "You shall love YHWH your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might." It is impossible to love a ruthless, irrational, tyrannical god.

While I agree that it is essentially "impossible to love a ruthless, irrational, tyrannical god", I do not agree with your interpretation of Paul's doctrines. For me, when I look at them in context to understand the intent, they do reconcile.

 

But the attitude of Christians, who believe salvation is attained through faith, is usually very 'holier-than-thou.'

Maybe it's just the churches I've attended, but that "holier -than-thou" attitude is seriously frowned upon. The Christians I have spoken with understand that we're all kind of muddling our way through life; insights and wisdom can come from all kinds of unexpected sources.

 

And since they don't tend to think works are important,

Works are not important? As a quick look, I turned to the hymnal from our church.

-In a statement of faith of the United Church of Canada, it says "...We are called to be the church: to celebrate God's presence, to love and serve others, to seek justice and resist evil,..."

-In a modern affirmation of faith, it says, "...We believe that this faith should manifest itself in the service of love as set for in the example of our blessed Lord,..."

-In the World Methodist Social Affirmation, it says, "...We rejoice in every sign of God's kingdom: in the upholding of human dignity and community; in every expression of love, justice, and reconciliation; in each act of self-giving on behalf of others; in the abundance of God's gifts entrusted to us that all may have enough; in responsible use of the earth's resources."

From this I glean that there are many Christians who do believe works are important, not as a means to salvation, but as evidence that the gift of salvation from God has been accepted.

 

this has allowed the burnings and torturings of heretics. Now I'm not saying all Christians are like that–far from it–, but it does make such cases more common.

So where exactly has the burning, torturing or killing of unbelievers simply because they do not agree happened recently? You talk about modern Christians doing this. When did someone do this such that the majority of Christian churches did not immediately reject the action?

 

You never hear about Jews torturing unbelievers, or Buddhists killing those who don't agree with them. The only other modern religon which does this is Islam (though for political reasons mostly. The religon itself prohibits the violence which is being commited in the Middle East).

As for the "you never hear about," it really depends on with whom you speak. Ask a Palestinian if Jews never torture unbelievers. India's the seat of Buddhism, yet just this week Christians were persecuted there. Assigning the acts of lunatics as representative of the main religion is not fair in any of those cases. Christianity prohibits the very violence of which you accuse it, too.

 

Feel free to attack my view.

 

I apologize to any Christians this may offend. Again, I don't think most Christians are bloodthirsty murders, it's just my explanation as to why throughout history Christians have been so violent.

The real reason for the violence is the same as everywhere/everywhen else: politics. Leaders take whatever is held in popular esteem and twist it to their own ends, until it is unrecognizable compared to the original. I am sorry that your experience with Christianity has been so negative, but I am glad that you found a healthy way to relate with God anyway.

Edited by Awdz Bodkins

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As I've already stated, I'm a Noahide, and worship the God of Judaism (I don't believe Yahshua is God, as Christians do), though I still believe Yahushua (Jesus) is the Messiah.

 

...I'm trying to figure out how that works. *scratches head*

 

I suppose someone who adheres to following all of the OT laws literally despite how much society has changed would consider it "nullification of the Law" to vary from them

 

Nullification only counts with something like "You shall not eat pork" in the Tanakh vs. "You can eat anything you want" in the Christian New Testament. direct contradictions that go against "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of HaShem your G-d which I command you."

 

That's diminishing the law, which is a direct nullification.

 

So where exactly has the burning, torturing or killing of unbelievers simply because they do not agree happened recently? You talk about modern Christians doing this. When did someone do this such that the majority of Christian churches did not immediately reject the action?

 

Kepari Leniata, stripped naked, tied up, doused with accelerant burned to death in February in Papua New Guinea. Firefighters tried to save her life, but the mob from several of the area churches chased them away. She was tortured with a branding iron into confessing to murder via sorcery.

 

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Nullification only counts with something like "You shall not eat pork" in the Tanakh vs. "You can eat anything you want" in the Christian New Testament. direct contradictions that go against "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of HaShem your G-d which I command you."

 

That's diminishing the law, which is a direct nullification.

Unfortunately language changes over the centuries, so no matter how careful folks are with it, understanding will change, even with the phenomenal care taken to preserve it that the Jewish culture has done.

 

Another consideration, from a Christian standpoint, is that it was not man that changed the law - it was God. Proof? No more than there is proof that what Moses carried down the mountain was actually from God.

 

Kepari Leniata, stripped naked, tied up, doused with accelerant burned to death in February in Papua New Guinea. Firefighters tried to save her life, but the mob from several of the area churches chased them away. She was tortured with a branding iron into confessing to murder via sorcery.

That is horrible! I hope the perpetrators are held accountable and prevented from committing any future violence. I do note that in this article there was non-religious cause for them to do it: Agence France-Press writes that the woman "admitted to killing the boy, who died after being [hospitalized] with stomach and chest pains on Tuesday."

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No more than there is proof that what Moses carried down the mountain was actually from God.

 

Which is why only the ten commandments were carried, and the entirety of the Torah was told to and accepted by the whole of the people it affected. So that no one could claim not to have heard. That way it wasn'tjust Moses's words.

 

Which is part of the reason Jews can't accept any change in the Law. Because in order for it to change, everyone who it affects has to hear it simultaneously, else the contract, the covenant, is broken.

 

That is horrible! I hope the perpetrators are held accountable and prevented from committing any future violence. I do note that in this article there was non-religious cause for them to do it: Agence France-Press writes that the woman "admitted to killing the boy, who died after being [hospitalized] with stomach and chest pains on Tuesday."

 

Admitting to killing the boy via sorcery after being tortured. I don't see a non-religious cause in that at all.

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