Posted March 3, 2012 Ｉ＇ｖｅ ｓｅｅｎ ｓｏ ｍａｎｙ ｐｅｏｐｌｅ ｓａｙ Ｔｈｅ Ｂｉｇ Ｂａｎｇ Ｔｈｅｏｒｙ ｉｓ ｉｍｐｏｓｓｉｂｌｅ ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ ｓｏｍｅｔｈｉｎｇ ｃａｎｎｏｔ ｊｕｓｔ ｃｏｍｅ ｏｕｔ ｏｆ ｎｏｔｈｉｎｇ． Ｂｕｔ ｗｈｅｎ ｉ ｓａｙ “Ｗｅｌｌ ｔｈｅｎ ｈｏｗ ｗａｓ Ｇｏｄ created？” Ｔｈｅｙ ｓａｙ ｔｈａｔ ｈｅ ｗａｓ ａｌｗａｙｓ ｔｈｅｒｅ ｗｈｉｃｈ ｔｏｔａｌｌｙ ｃｏｎｔｒｉｄｉｃｔｓ ｗｈａｔ ｔｈｅｙ ｊｕｓｔ ｓａｉｄ。 Ｔｈｅｙ ｐｒｅｔｔｙ ｍｕｃｈ ｊｕｓｔ ｓａｉｄ ｇｏｄ ｄｏｅｓｎｔ ｅｘｉｓｔ ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ “Ｓｏｍｅｔｈｉｎｇ ｃａｎｎｏｔ ｃｏｍｅ ｏｕｔ ｏｆ nothing！ Share this post Link to post
Posted March 3, 2012 Thoughts on either idea, and are you doing anything for Lent this year? My parents don't make me participate in Lenten things anymore, since I've decided I don't want to be a part of any religion. But they and my brothers all gave up something for Lent. My dad gave up soda and one of my brothers gave up cookies. That probably doesn't sound like much, but they are always heavily dependent on those things, so it's gonna be tough for them. XP Share this post Link to post
Posted March 3, 2012 Ｉ＇ｖｅ ｓｅｅｎ ｓｏ ｍａｎｙ ｐｅｏｐｌｅ ｓａｙ Ｔｈｅ Ｂｉｇ Ｂａｎｇ Ｔｈｅｏｒｙ ｉｓ ｉｍｐｏｓｓｉｂｌｅ ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ ｓｏｍｅｔｈｉｎｇ ｃａｎｎｏｔ ｊｕｓｔ ｃｏｍｅ ｏｕｔ ｏｆ ｎｏｔｈｉｎｇ． Ｂｕｔ ｗｈｅｎ ｉ ｓａｙ “Ｗｅｌｌ ｔｈｅｎ ｈｏｗ ｗａｓ Ｇｏｄ created？” Ｔｈｅｙ ｓａｙ ｔｈａｔ ｈｅ ｗａｓ ａｌｗａｙｓ ｔｈｅｒｅ ｗｈｉｃｈ ｔｏｔａｌｌｙ ｃｏｎｔｒｉｄｉｃｔｓ ｗｈａｔ ｔｈｅｙ ｊｕｓｔ ｓａｉｄ。 Ｔｈｅｙ ｐｒｅｔｔｙ ｍｕｃｈ ｊｕｓｔ ｓａｉｄ ｇｏｄ ｄｏｅｓｎｔ ｅｘｉｓｔ ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ “Ｓｏｍｅｔｈｉｎｇ ｃａｎｎｏｔ ｃｏｍｅ ｏｕｔ ｏｆ nothing！ How is it contradictory to say that something is uncreated so was thus not created out of nothing? They are basically saying that nothing never existed. If something was always there, it was not created out of a non-existent nothing. That said, I don't know why the same people who say that God always existed would also say the Big Bang is impossible. Given that God exists and God is something, the Big Bang would not be something from nothing, would it? Allathat just shows to me how sublime and profound God is to use a Big Bang to set the universe in motion. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 3, 2012 You could just sa that the big bang always existed and you win. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 4, 2012 Ｉ＇ｖｅ ｓｅｅｎ ｓｏ ｍａｎｙ ｐｅｏｐｌｅ ｓａｙ Ｔｈｅ Ｂｉｇ Ｂａｎｇ Ｔｈｅｏｒｙ ｉｓ ｉｍｐｏｓｓｉｂｌｅ ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ ｓｏｍｅｔｈｉｎｇ ｃａｎｎｏｔ ｊｕｓｔ ｃｏｍｅ ｏｕｔ ｏｆ ｎｏｔｈｉｎｇ． Ｂｕｔ ｗｈｅｎ ｉ ｓａｙ “Ｗｅｌｌ ｔｈｅｎ ｈｏｗ ｗａｓ Ｇｏｄ created？” Ｔｈｅｙ ｓａｙ ｔｈａｔ ｈｅ ｗａｓ ａｌｗａｙｓ ｔｈｅｒｅ ｗｈｉｃｈ ｔｏｔａｌｌｙ ｃｏｎｔｒｉｄｉｃｔｓ ｗｈａｔ ｔｈｅｙ ｊｕｓｔ ｓａｉｄ。 Ｔｈｅｙ ｐｒｅｔｔｙ ｍｕｃｈ ｊｕｓｔ ｓａｉｄ ｇｏｄ ｄｏｅｓｎｔ ｅｘｉｓｔ ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ “Ｓｏｍｅｔｈｉｎｇ ｃａｎｎｏｔ ｃｏｍｅ ｏｕｔ ｏｆ nothing！ The idea is not that God has "always existed" but simply that if He DID have a beginning, we cannot comprehend it. The question "what caused God" is meaningless. You can ask "what caused X physical thing" because X was there when X had a beginning. God has no beginning inside of time that we can understand, because He created time, and is theoretically outside of time and not bound to it. So asking "what created God" is really a useless question there can be no resolution either way. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 4, 2012 The idea is not that God has "always existed" but simply that if He DID have a beginning, we cannot comprehend it. The question "what caused God" is meaningless. You can ask "what caused X physical thing" because X was there when X had a beginning. God has no beginning inside of time that we can understand, because He created time, and is theoretically outside of time and not bound to it. So asking "what created God" is really a useless question there can be no resolution either way. Actually, I've heard it said lots of times that God is eternal and has always existed, so not all Christians would agree with you on that. Either way, it still doesn't solve the problem of whether or not God requires a "Creator" in the same way that creationists say the universe does. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 4, 2012 The idea is not that God has "always existed" but simply that if He DID have a beginning, we cannot comprehend it. The question "what caused God" is meaningless. You can ask "what caused X physical thing" because X was there when X had a beginning. God has no beginning inside of time that we can understand, because He created time, and is theoretically outside of time and not bound to it. So asking "what created God" is really a useless question there can be no resolution either way. I like it when you can understand just enough to say that you will never understand in a very convenient way to affirm your beliefs. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 4, 2012 Thoughts on either idea, and are you doing anything for Lent this year? My family typically does both - give up an activity that we enjoy and fill the empty time with service. This year it was screens: TV, computer, etc that my mom decided on, and yesterday they all went down to Catholic Charities to help with handing out food. I wasn't home yet so I couldn't go, but I'm glad that they had the opportunity to serve. I personally gave up sweets, coffee, and soda, and I'm having a very hard time! It'll be easier now that I'm home, although I'm sure that's not the point at all. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 4, 2012 God has no beginning inside of time that we can understand, because He created time, and is theoretically outside of time and not bound to it. To say that, however, you would have to believe that time, in essence, is a created thing. Personally, it makes more sense to me to say that time deosn't exist as a created thing similar to a tree or the soil. I think time is just something we use as a unit of measurement, more similar to feet or meters. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) To say that, however, you would have to believe that time, in essence, is a created thing. Personally, it makes more sense to me to say that time deosn't exist as a created thing similar to a tree or the soil. I think time is just something we use as a unit of measurement, more similar to feet or meters. Now we're getting into philosophical stuff would "time" be here if there was no one here to perceive it? "Time" is just a concept we have for the passage of events. Considering the Christian God has no tie to our earthly timeline, He is outside of time. Even if time itself was not created, we as created beings are the only ones who can perceive what we call "time" in the sense that we think about it. So either way, the question still falls in the "irrelevant and unanswerable" category for me. If God is outside our perception time and created us, He effectively created our perception of time, and from that created perception, He is eternal. Other than that, we don't know anything. Edited March 5, 2012 by philpot123 Share this post Link to post
Posted March 5, 2012 To say that, however, you would have to believe that time, in essence, is a created thing. Personally, it makes more sense to me to say that time deosn't exist as a created thing similar to a tree or the soil. I think time is just something we use as a unit of measurement, more similar to feet or meters. Time is a dimension. Do you think length, width, and height are just something we use to measure? Length isn't the same thing as the units of length, time isn't the same thing as units of time. I think it's fair to say there is a certain amount of arbitrariness to the units of measure, but not to what they measure. Gravity affects time. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 5, 2012 I guess I'm an athiest; I'm too sceptical for much else. Divinities IMO don't perform miracles. Still, while random chance can pull some astounding whammies, until a divinity comes up to me and grants me superpowers I'll continue applied sceptiscism. (I sort of have my own made-up religion based around fictional gods from obscure video games and comics, plus from the old polythiestic religions. I know its totally fake but that's reassuring in its own way. A prayer to Fedhas Madash won't be answered, but it feels nice to phrase it in your head. ) That said, I still like to learn about other religions. I tried reading the Christian Bible and found it toooo tedious. The "Blasphemer's Bible" I found on the internet is working better for me. ~Subject substitution/topic transmutation : So what do you folks think of omniquantism as a religion? It sounds like a clever idea but I can't see it being very practical. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 5, 2012 I guess I'm an athiest; I'm too sceptical for much else. Divinities IMO don't perform miracles. Still, while random chance can pull some astounding whammies, until a divinity comes up to me and grants me superpowers I'll continue applied sceptiscism. (I sort of have my own made-up religion based around fictional gods from obscure video games and comics, plus from the old polythiestic religions. I know its totally fake but that's reassuring in its own way. A prayer to Fedhas Madash won't be answered, but it feels nice to phrase it in your head. ) That said, I still like to learn about other religions. I tried reading the Christian Bible and found it toooo tedious. The "Blasphemer's Bible" I found on the internet is working better for me. ~Subject substitution/topic transmutation : So what do you folks think of omniquantism as a religion? It sounds like a clever idea but I can't see it being very practical. I don't know about your last question, but as far as the Christian Bible goes, starting at Genesis and reading through is certainly the worst way to go about it if you're interested in the particulars of the beliefs, i would start in the gospel of John, then move to Acts and Romans. John tells of Jesus' life, Acts tells of how the apostles lived after Jesus' death, and Romans contains a lot of the doctrinal foundation of typical Christianity. If you want an extremely interesting read, the book of Revelation is pretty intense. So anyways, if you were interested in trying to read portions of the Christian Bible, definitely don't start with Genesis and try to chug through the genealogies. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 5, 2012 I'm a Christian for many reasons. Mainly and probably most notably however is when I was a child, I had a voice which led me to do things. To believe, telling me what to do and what to do. I didn't smoke because of this, I didn't get into drinking because of it, and I didn't resent people for bullying me as a child. I had anger management problems, it's true. Having been mentally abused a lot then, but how I survived was by the thoughts which gave me advice. Am I saying it was god himself? Maybe not, but I do believe those thoughts were inspired by him in some way. All I know is, without Him I wouldn't enjoy my life as much as I do today, and in fact I would be dead. I've become a lot more religious to a sense since I was younger, but still am working on doing what people normally do in my position. (I probably won't reply, I'm a wanderer. Lol) Share this post Link to post
Posted March 5, 2012 I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't sleep around and I felt sorry for those who bullied me as I figured out, even as a child, why they did it. Yet I'm an Atheist. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 6, 2012 Yet you are an atheist? Did someone suggest that one must believe in a god to do those things? Or were they, perhaps, merely sharing their experience? Share this post Link to post
Posted March 6, 2012 Yet you are an atheist? Did someone suggest that one must believe in a god to do those things? Or were they, perhaps, merely sharing their experience? Well, some people do tend to think that atheists are necessarily amoral sometimes. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 6, 2012 Well, some people do tend to think that atheists are necessarily amoral sometimes. I know, it just didn't look like anyone had in the immediate vicinity. "Yet" struck me as an odd word to use given that. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 6, 2012 I know, it just didn't look like anyone had in the immediate vicinity. "Yet" struck me as an odd word to use given that. Please don't nit-pick my wording. English isn't my native language and explaining something in the middle of the night isn't easy. ^^' What I meant was that we all have a conscience (I hope) and not all of us think it comes from (a) god. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Please don't nit-pick my wording. English isn't my native language and explaining something in the middle of the night isn't easy. ^^' What I meant was that we all have a conscience (I hope) and not all of us think it comes from (a) god. ETA: Never mind. I wasn't nitpicking, but that's neither here nor there. I won't say anything about what your use of English communicates any longer, per your request. Edited March 6, 2012 by Princess Artemis Share this post Link to post
Posted March 6, 2012 Please don't nit-pick my wording. English isn't my native language and explaining something in the middle of the night isn't easy. ^^' What I meant was that we all have a conscience (I hope) and not all of us think it comes from (a) god. Where does it come from? Share this post Link to post
Posted March 6, 2012 Where does it come from? Your reasoning capabilities. Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God? Share this post Link to post
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