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Sexism

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When you talk about privilege in a thread about sexism, be prepared for it to be taken the way it means in the realm of sexism and to be questioned on how it was used and what you mean by it, perhaps as an examination on what that particular statement meant.

 

I understood what linkx7 said; I wish (some) men would stop saying "I'm the man," as if (in most cases) possession of a penis is a super power.

 

Just because I understood doesn't mean I don't still want an explanation for what linkx7 said, nor does it mean I'm still not curious what you mean by what you said.

^This.

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Bringing this thread up to say something which has been bothering me a lot lately.

 

Has anyone ever thought that our current society is far more sexist to men?

 

Because I can't get my thoughts out clearly, this is a fairly honest question on my part, simply looking for what people think. While I don't want to slink out of my original post, I will say that "far more" should definitely be "fairly."

 

Before killing me, think about it. A girl can act any way they like. If they are told they shouldn't act that way, the person saying that is labeled, quite rightfully, sexist.

 

If a girl acts traditionally girl-like, they are a "girly girl," if not a "tomboy." While I seriously dislike these labels, as they assume one gender is typically one way, but at least they are on fairly equal footings.

 

Now what if a boy acts traditionally feminine? There are terms for that, but they are all negative, to say the least.

 

Now you may say that men are sometimes just considered superior in our society (manly generally being a good thing), but this is not exclusively sexist to females. Women were considered the superior, more pure gender for a very long time, but it still limited their freedom.

 

I dunno, something to think about?

Edited by -platinum-draco-

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Bringing this thread up to say something which has been bothering me a lot lately.

 

Has anyone ever thought that our current society is far more sexist to men?

 

Before killing me, think about it. A girl can act any way they like. If they are told they shouldn't act that way, the person saying that is labeled, quite rightfully, sexist.

 

If a girl acts traditionally girl-like, they are a "girly girl," if not a "tomboy." While I seriously dislike these labels, as they assume one gender is typically one way, but at least they are on fairly equal footings.

 

Now what if a boy acts traditionally feminine? There are terms for that, but they are all negative, to say the least.

 

Now you may say that men are sometimes just considered superior in our society (manly generally being a good thing), but this is not exclusively sexist to females. Women were considered the superior, more pure gender for a very long time, but it still limited their freedom.

 

I dunno, something to think about?

I know what you mean. I think there's a lot of pressures both ways. There are assumptions in how women should act, although that's lessening- men, however, get treated very badly if they act 'girly'. Its a shame that a little boy can't like the colour pink, or play with girl toys, and that has carried over into adulthood.

 

That said, I still think there's a lot of sexism aimed at girls and women. I feel like we're held to a higher standard in terms of appearance, and people assume I like/don't like certain things, strictly based on my gender. I know a lot of other people who feel the same way.

 

I think the best way to erode these opinions is through children; teach them young that it doesn't matter if you're a boy or girl (biologically or mentally), its okay to act, dress or do what you like.

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Bringing this thread up to say something which has been bothering me a lot lately.

 

Has anyone ever thought that our current society is far more sexist to men?

 

Before killing me, think about it. A girl can act any way they like. If they are told they shouldn't act that way, the person saying that is labeled, quite rightfully, sexist.

 

If a girl acts traditionally girl-like, they are a "girly girl," if not a "tomboy." While I seriously dislike these labels, as they assume one gender is typically one way, but at least they are on fairly equal footings.

 

Now what if a boy acts traditionally feminine? There are terms for that, but they are all negative, to say the least.

 

Now you may say that men are sometimes just considered superior in our society (manly generally being a good thing), but this is not exclusively sexist to females. Women were considered the superior, more pure gender for a very long time, but it still limited their freedom.

 

I dunno, something to think about?

Women are still paid less than men. It has slowly been improving throughout the years, but we're not quite there yet.

Women are still fighting their way into jobs in science or politics (take a look at names/people to see how not 50/50 it is). Look at the things that were said when Hilary Clinton ran for president. "Oh, she'll start a war just because she's on her period." And they were serious.

The worst insults you can throw at anybody are derogatory terms for women or gays.

We still fight for our own reproductive rights, facing the scrutiny of the whole public as it's fought about in politics.

 

I'm not saying there isn't sexism against men. But to say it's completely turned around and is more sexist against men than women? Don't see it. At all.

 

I think the best way to erode these opinions is through children; teach them young that it doesn't matter if you're a boy or girl (biologically or mentally), its okay to act, dress or do what you like.

 

Yes, please.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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Women are still paid less than men. It has slowly been improving throughout the years, but we're not quite there yet.

Women are still fighting their way into jobs in science or politics (take a look at names/people to see how not 50/50 it is). Look at the things that were said when Hilary Clinton ran for president. "Oh, she'll start a war just because she's on her period." And they were serious.

The worst insults you can throw at anybody are derogatory terms for women or gays.

We still fight for our own reproductive rights, facing the scrutiny of the whole public as it's fought about in politics.

 

I'm not saying there isn't sexism against men. But to say it's completely turned around and is more sexist against men than women? Don't see it. At all.

 

 

 

Yes, please.

Thats not what I'm saying at all. I just am calling attention to the fact that we seem to have some prejudice against them too, but it's less noticed when it really should get some notice. Women face a lot of sexism, but people know this.

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I'm not saying there isn't sexism against men. But to say it's completely turned around and is more sexist against men than women? Don't see it. At all.

Try being a male nurse.

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Thats not what I'm saying at all. I just am calling attention to the fact that we seem to have some prejudice against them too, but it's less noticed when it really should get some notice. Women face a lot of sexism, but people know this.

Then why do people tell me I'm just being crazy or that I'm just on my period when I bring it up? =\

Almost everywhere I go now is all about people shoving in my face about men facing more sexism than women and how we should feel bad for them.

 

Try being a male nurse.

 

I'm not saying there isn't sexism against men.

 

It would be ridiculous to say that there is a group out there that doesn't face discrimination of some sort.

 

And, as you pointed out, one good example is men entering "women's professions" just as I mentioned, women entering "men's professions".

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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Has anyone ever thought that our current society is far more sexist to men?

Far more? No, not at all.

 

There are unfair, sexist pressures all around, of course, but that does not mean there is far more sexism against men than women.

 

Women may not act any way we like. Women may not be too thin nor too fat nor too busty nor too small chested nor dress too provocatively nor dress too unattractively nor wear not enough makeup nor wear too much makeup nor frown too much nor smile too much or else. Women may not be too strongly opinionated or not opinionated enough nor sexually active nor virgins nor conservative nor liberal nor wear skirts nor wear pants or else we aren't women. We can't go to parties nor can we dislike going to parties, we can't be mothers or workers or both or else we're not good enough.

 

Men face some of these pressures too, but at least society doesn't turn them into physical impossibilities in order for them to be deemed good enough to appear in magazines or on the covers of books: http://genrereviews.livejournal.com/371367.html for one example to illustrate this.

 

Do men get fired if they don't wear products on their skin that are detrimental to their health? Do men have to paint their faces and disguise their natural beauty to even have a hope in hell of getting a job in most places?

 

When stuff like this gets equalized, along with lots and lots more, then I'll think we're making inroads towards getting the world to be equally horrid to both sexes, rather than bad to men and evil to women.

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Then why do people tell me I'm just being crazy or that I'm just on my period when I bring it up? =\

Almost everywhere I go now is all about people shoving in my face about men facing more sexism than women and how we should feel bad for them.

 

It would be ridiculous to say that there is a group out there that doesn't face discrimination of some sort.

 

And, as you pointed out, one good example is men entering "women's professions" just as I mentioned, women entering "men's professions".

Nursing is also an example of where it is sexist - or at least, stacked - against men.

 

The Chief Nurse and Deputy Chief Nurses of our hospital are all female. I have met only one male Matron ever, and of the 30 Sisters on my ward, only one of them is a Charge Nurses. Our Matron is female, the senior HCA is female, all the Team Leaders are female, all the LINK nurses are female...

 

etc.

 

It gets shoved in faces because women spend so much time complaining about sexism that nobody cares any more - it's old news, and is often grossly exaggerated when people go off on a pro-women rampage to the point that everyone ignores them for being crazy.

Edited by Kestra15

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It gets shoved in faces because women spend so much time complaining about sexism that nobody cares any more - it's old news, and is often grossly exaggerated when people go off on a pro-women rampage to the point that everyone ignores them for being crazy.

"Nobody" cares? "Everybody" ignores it and deems "them" "crazy"?

 

I think Sock's case was just made.

Edited by Princess Artemis

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"Nobody" cares? "Everybody" ignores it and deems "them" "crazy"?

 

I think Sock's case was just made.

...well done. That was the point.

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Kestra, I think people are making a false distinction when there's really none to be had; there is sexism on both sides. At men and women. Arguing who has it worse isn't really going to help anyone.

 

People should start paying more attention to the preconceptions that keep lurking around everywhere. Why do we automatically assume doctors are men, and nurses are female? Why do television and movie executives feel that casting anyone except white males as leads be dangerous, unless the entire point of the film has something to do with race or gender? Why do phrases such as "you scream like a little girl" exist, but not "a little boy"? There are a lot of assumptions out there, and it shows in larger statistical studies.

 

Basically, squabbling doesn't help. People should know that both genders face problems, and should be taking steps to get rid of all of them.

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...well done. That was the point.

Clarify it. Such as, who is "nobody" and "everybody"? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by asking you this.

 

Completely Different, indeed. It's there on all sides, though in different ways. I'm just not prepared to let "it's far worse for men!" sit unchallenged. It isn't far worse for men. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and it would be entirely ridiculous to read "it's not far worse" as "you have it made!" but sometimes people don't read what is said, they read what they want to see.

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Far more? No, not at all.

 

There are unfair, sexist pressures all around, of course, but that does not mean there is far more sexism against men than women.

 

Women may not act any way we like. Women may not be too thin nor too fat nor too busty nor too small chested nor dress too provocatively nor dress too unattractively nor wear not enough makeup nor wear too much makeup nor frown too much nor smile too much or else. Women may not be too strongly opinionated or not opinionated enough nor sexually active nor virgins nor conservative nor liberal nor wear skirts nor wear pants or else we aren't women. We can't go to parties nor can we dislike going to parties, we can't be mothers or workers or both or else we're not good enough.

 

Men face some of these pressures too, but at least society doesn't turn them into physical impossibilities in order for them to be deemed good enough to appear in magazines or on the covers of books: http://genrereviews.livejournal.com/371367.html for one example to illustrate this.

 

Do men get fired if they don't wear products on their skin that are detrimental to their health? Do men have to paint their faces and disguise their natural beauty to even have a hope in hell of getting a job in most places?

 

When stuff like this gets equalized, along with lots and lots more, then I'll think we're making inroads towards getting the world to be equally horrid to both sexes, rather than bad to men and evil to women.

I wouldn't consider all forms of makeup to be bad for your skin. I wear Femme Couture mineral powder and my skin has never been prettier. Not to mention the fact that I like wearing makeup. I have an uneven skin tone and some scarring/discoloration from acne when I was a teenager. Makeup lets me hide my flaws and gives me a confidence boost. It also lets me draw attention to my eyes via the use of mineral power and, rarely, eyeliner and mascara (I don't wear those often, as I tend to have a time crunch when getting ready for work/school). The only thing that goes on my lips is Burt's Bees.

 

But from a business point of view, yes, presentation does matter. Especially if you're the "face" of the company. I'm mostly referring to waitstaff here, because they're who the customer sees. that's why their managers are often more strict on them, men and women included.

 

I found that LJ post on poses incredibly interesting to read, though. I never really look at the covers of books in great detail because I focus more on content.

 

Also, as a women who works in a kitchen, I feel it's important to point out that here in the states, the industry is roughly 60% women now. This field used to be male dominated (because of the unsavory characters that worked in the back of the house), and now there are more and more women entering this rather demanding field. My female chef instructors are the ones you don't mess with. One is 5'2" and knows eight ways to kick your rump into next Friday.

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I wouldn't consider all forms of makeup to be bad for your skin. I wear Femme Couture mineral powder and my skin has never been prettier. Not to mention the fact that I like wearing makeup. I have an uneven skin tone and some scarring/discoloration from acne when I was a teenager. Makeup lets me hide my flaws and gives me a confidence boost. It also lets me draw attention to my eyes via the use of mineral power and, rarely, eyeliner and mascara (I don't wear those often, as I tend to have a time crunch when getting ready for work/school). The only thing that goes on my lips is Burt's Bees.

 

But from a business point of view, yes, presentation does matter. Especially if you're the "face" of the company. I'm mostly referring to waitstaff here, because they're who the customer sees. that's why their managers are often more strict on them, men and women included.

 

I found that LJ post on poses incredibly interesting to read, though. I never really look at the covers of books in great detail because I focus more on content.

 

Also, as a women who works in a kitchen, I feel it's important to point out that here in the states, the industry is roughly 60% women now. This field used to be male dominated (because of the unsavory characters that worked in the back of the house), and now there are more and more women entering this rather demanding field. My female chef instructors are the ones you don't mess with. One is 5'2" and knows eight ways to kick your rump into next Friday.

"roast your rump" would've been sufficient.

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Women are still paid less than men. It has slowly been improving throughout the years, but we're not quite there yet.

 

This is inaccurate. Women make less because of the professions they choose, and they’re more likely to not strive for the top positions.

 

http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/issuebrf/sib99352.htm

 

user posted image

 

The AANA reports that almost half of all nurse anesthetists are men. It’s the highest paid nursing position. Men are more likely to go into OR, ED, cath labs, and ICUs; they get the experience needed and then continue their education to be nurse anesthetists.

 

Women are still fighting their way into jobs in science or politics (take a look at names/people to see how not 50/50 it is). Look at the things that were said when Hilary Clinton ran for president. "Oh, she'll start a war just because she's on her period." And they were serious.

 

LOL Women doing the work for me!

 

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-0...en-finance-ceos

 

Furthermore, many critics of women politicians are women themselves. Just look at the unfavorable ratings by gender on how people feel about Sarah Palin.

 

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-1...oll-herman-cain

 

“Four Times As Many Republican Women Would Prefer A Man As President, Rather Than A Woman”

 

75% say it doesn’t matter, 20% prefer a man, 5% woman.

 

[snip] Do men get fired if they don't wear products on their skin that are detrimental to their health? Do men have to paint their faces and disguise their natural beauty to even have a hope in hell of getting a job in most places?

 

Why not back it up?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/opinion/...ave-a-case.html

 

“Beauty is as much an issue for men as for women. While extensive research shows that women’s looks have bigger impacts in the market for mates, another large group of studies demonstrates that men’s looks have bigger impacts on the job….”

 

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I wouldn't consider all forms of makeup to be bad for your skin. I wear Femme Couture mineral powder and my skin has never been prettier. Not to mention the fact that I like wearing makeup. I have an uneven skin tone and some scarring/discoloration from acne when I was a teenager. Makeup lets me hide my flaws and gives me a confidence boost. It also lets me draw attention to my eyes via the use of mineral power and, rarely, eyeliner and mascara (I don't wear those often, as I tend to have a time crunch when getting ready for work/school). The only thing that goes on my lips is Burt's Bees.

 

But from a business point of view, yes, presentation does matter. Especially if you're the "face" of the company. I'm mostly referring to waitstaff here, because they're who the customer sees. that's why their managers are often more strict on them, men and women included.

I don't consider all makeup bad for skin either, outside of the fact that it is applying foreign substances to one's face.

 

And of course, one can like wearing makeup, there is nothing wrong with that. Lots of people like to dress up. I believe there is something askew with the world when the default for women is to be seen as ugly and unkempt if they don't put foreign substances on their skin, however. Not seen as women. Men are not required to put silica on their eyelids and wax on their lips in order to be viewed as "presentable"; they go unadorned, natural. Women cannot just be women and be seen as beautiful and presentable, whereas men can. That was my point.

 

I'm willing to bet that you, Kila, are just as pretty without makeup as you are with it. You like wearing makeup, which is not at all wrong. It's a choice...except...it isn't, not really. Women have been fired for not wearing makeup, and since men are not required to wear makeup, this is not an equitable position. Makeup is expensive, many people find it uncomfortable, the cheapest kind is the most damaging to skin. So, women have to lay out money and risk their health (even good makeup can deteriorate skin) in ways men don't for the same jobs. What would happen to your women wait-staff if they all came to work putting equal effort into their presentation as the men? Their hair clean, nicely combed and cut, styled...and not a speck of makeup in sight? Their bodies showered, squeaky clean, and equally unshaved? I'm guessing they wouldn't have a job long, because society makes unequal demands on women for them to be presentable.

 

I found that LJ post on poses incredibly interesting to read, though. I never really look at the covers of books in great detail because I focus more on content.

 

Things like that are hard for me, personally, not to see, because I'm an artist with a huge interest in the human form. http://justsayins.tumblr.com/post/14957660...me-tell-you-why is about female comic book poses written by a martial artist and contortionist. There is more out there like this. I have a Harper's Bazaar that is like a text book on how to turn women into inhuman monsters with Photoshop. Size zero models have their already small frames made impossibly thin, and for what? They have their backs mangled and their breasts pushed into anatomically impossible shapes...why? What purpose does it serve? Why can't a beautiful woman be a beautiful woman on the cover of a book or in a magazine? Why do they have to be inhuman creatures in order to be acceptable? Who in the world is looking at them and seeing the inhuman as more attractive than the human and why?

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Bringing this thread up to say something which has been bothering me a lot lately.

 

Has anyone ever thought that our current society is far more sexist to men?

 

Because I can't get my thoughts out clearly, this is a fairly honest question on my part, simply looking for what people think. While I don't want to slink out of my original post, I will say that "far more" should definitely be "fairly."

 

Before killing me, think about it. A girl can act any way they like. If they are told they shouldn't act that way, the person saying that is labeled, quite rightfully, sexist.

 

If a girl acts traditionally girl-like, they are a "girly girl," if not a "tomboy." While I seriously dislike these labels, as they assume one gender is typically one way, but at least they are on fairly equal footings.

 

Now what if a boy acts traditionally feminine? There are terms for that, but they are all negative, to say the least.

 

Now you may say that men are sometimes just considered superior in our society (manly generally being a good thing), but this is not exclusively sexist to females. Women were considered the superior, more pure gender for a very long time, but it still limited their freedom.

 

I dunno, something to think about?

What I've noticed is that women have more pressure put on them to look a certain way and men have more pressure on them to act a certain way. Don't really know what's worse, judging one group entirely by their appearances and asking another group to always be tough, strong, affluent, and powerful, but I usually try to act like a guy anyway so I can't really make an objective judgement here.

 

What's also interesting is women in positions of political power. Half the news on them relates to what they're wearing, what they look like, etc. But it's also interesting the way people who don't agree with them attack them: belittling them, likening them to the stereotypical shrewish wife, calling them censorkip.gif*es, etc. just because they're stating their opinion. So I'd say that a limit on how women can act is that they can't be in charge of any men.

 

 

 

 

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I don't consider all makeup bad for skin either, outside of the fact that it is applying foreign substances to one's face.

 

And of course, one can like wearing makeup, there is nothing wrong with that.  Lots of people like to dress up.  I believe there is something askew with the world when the default for women is to be seen as ugly and unkempt if they don't put foreign substances on their skin, however.  Not seen as women.  Men are not required to put silica on their eyelids and wax on their lips in order to be viewed as "presentable"; they go unadorned, natural.  Women cannot just be women and be seen as beautiful and presentable, whereas men can.  That was my point.

 

I'm willing to bet that you, Kila, are just as pretty without makeup as you are with it.  You like wearing makeup, which is not at all wrong.  It's a choice...except...it isn't, not really.  Women have been fired for not wearing makeup, and since men are not required to wear makeup, this is not an equitable position.  Makeup is expensive, many people find it uncomfortable, the cheapest kind is the most damaging to skin.  So, women have to lay out money and risk their health (even good makeup can deteriorate skin) in ways men don't for the same jobs.  What would happen to your women wait-staff if they all came to work putting equal effort into their presentation as the men?  Their hair clean, nicely combed and cut, styled...and not a speck of makeup in sight?  Their bodies showered, squeaky clean, and equally unshaved?  I'm guessing they wouldn't have a job long, because society makes unequal demands on women for them to be presentable.

I spent about an hour last night trying to articulate exactly this, thank you. I will not begrudge anyone their makeup. I have seen it do wonders for people and I know that some women have an awesome time 'putting their face on'. Since I was a kid, I've been pressured to use and enjoy makeup and I just don't. I'm not going to go in to what happens when I try to apply anything that isn't lip gloss but the result is not pretty.

 

Since I turned twelve, I have been gifted four makeup consultations, six compacts, three makeup bags and six or seven bottles of nail polish. All of that came from people know me very well and should therefore be aware that I do not wear makeup. The consultations varied from informative but useless to ridiculous and they were all humiliating. Every time I sat down in that chair and the esthetician realised I didn't know how to put on lipstick, I was treated like an idiot child and left with a face that wasn't mine.

 

I gave away all of the other stuff to people who could use it. To my knowledge, my brother, my father, my male cousins, my uncles, grandfathers, male friends and male coworkers have never gone for a makeup consultation. They have never received makeup as gifts.

 

In the past I have worked as a stockroom clerk, as has my brother. When I was a stockroom clerk, I was required by my boss to wear makeup and to dress business casual, despite the fact that my job duties took place out of sight of customers and in very physically demanding, dirty conditions. I had to negotiate with my boss to be allowed to wear flat-bottomed shoes rather than any heel. My brother could go to work showered and dressed in jeans and workboots and would have no worry of having a 'hygiene talk' with his manager (as I did, five times, about my non-made-up face).

 

tl;dr - Makeup is awesome when it's optional.

Edited by WereJace

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Women have been fired for not wearing makeup, and since men are not required to wear makeup, this is not an equitable position. Makeup is expensive, many people find it uncomfortable, the cheapest kind is the most damaging to skin. So, women have to lay out money and risk their health (even good makeup can deteriorate skin) in ways men don't for the same jobs. What would happen to your women wait-staff if they all came to work putting equal effort into their presentation as the men? Their hair clean, nicely combed and cut, styled...and not a speck of makeup in sight? Their bodies showered, squeaky clean, and equally unshaved? I'm guessing they wouldn't have a job long, because society makes unequal demands on women for them to be presentable.

 

To add onto this: if a man came into work wearing makeup or nail polish (not necessarily in the food industry, but in general) the same way a woman often "needs" to, chances are they'd get laughed at at best, fired at worst. Yet there are some men who enjoy wearing makeup and/or nail polish and in fact look very nice in it. Why shouldn't they be able to?

 

Even men who do something as simple as wear their hair long sometimes catch crap for it. My poor cousin used to have his hair long, and my nutso grandmother did nothing but comment on how it looked girly, he should get it cut, men shouldn't have long hair, yadda yadda yadda. He looked very nice with long hair and it made him happy, so what business is it of hers?

 

In short, we all live in a society that criticizes us for being who we are if who we are goes against the "norm," and it's not fair. :S

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Even men who do something as simple as wear their hair long sometimes catch crap for it. My poor cousin used to have his hair long, and my nutso grandmother did nothing but comment on how it looked girly, he should get it cut, men shouldn't have long hair, yadda yadda yadda. He looked very nice with long hair and it made him happy, so what business is it of hers?

When I had long hair, people always complimented my parents about their daughter. Not that I mind being called a girl that much, but it got annoying.

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I'm going to go out on a limb and admit that IRL I'm a female, but prefer to be called male on the internet. I'm also the eldest sibling and the only female in my generation in my extended family. There is a lot of pressure on me to be... a girl. Some of the things that my family perceives as 'basic' girlness... doesn't click with me, and because of that I'm slowly becoming estranged from my family. Let me give you an example.

 

I'm a socially awkward recluse. This already raises a huge amount of red flags for my family, who expect me as a growing lady to go out partying with friends and buy clothing. This isn't even about sitting on my butt doing nothing but games, this complaint would still hold true if I spent my time studying or researching or reading. The /only/ reason they expect this of me is because I am female. When I go against their expectations, I am punished via being robbed of my freedom to play and spend my time how I want.

 

There's a problem when a mother is forcing her daughter to buy new pants because 'well lookat you! You're a lady! We should get you fashionable clothes!'. It's not jut my mother, but even my father ran out to buy dresses for me. When I go to coutures, I have to explain that no, I don't go clothes shopping often, so I have no idea what my dress size is or anything. When I go out with my brother, it's okay if he doesn't know his jeans size. However, when I don't know, I'm considered 'odd' or 'cute' or 'still innocent and a child'. The issue is, I can't even buy women's clothes. They show so much skin I'm just too awkward, so I buy men's clothes, and they fit well on me and I feel comfortable. Whenever I buy women's clothes they up my bust size and accentuate my curves, which I'm usually okay with, but then we get to down-necks and whatnot, where I don't usually see men's clothes showing off their abs or crotch and it's okay for men to just wear clothes for comfort.

 

Has a guy ever tried to put on a pair of booties that many females wear? It just sucks. It just /sucks/.

 

There's also the issue of makeup, which I don't wear, and I'm pretty sure I'll never get a job because I don't like makeup. I get nervous a lot in public, and I tend to rub my face or eyes in public as well due to nervousness. I can't do that when I have makeup caked on, as then I get a mass of makeup on my sleeve.

 

Finally, my parents and family put a lot of pressure on me to 'bring home' a handsome, tall, and rich man. The entire reason why I'm being pressured to wear makeup, buy new clothes, go out shopping, etc. is all because I'm expected to find a good husband. This pressure, again, isn't exuded as strongly on my male cousins, or my little brothers.

 

You know what? People who are sick of hearing about sexism, I'm sick of dealing with it. I will flip all your tables and show you the grime underneath if necessary. I want this harassment to my personal life to stop. It isn't 'whining' or being on pms, it's deciding I'm not going to deal with this censorkip.gif anymore, and anyone who'll try to stop me will get punches in the face. I'm just /so sick/ of being treated 'like a female' instead of 'like a person'.

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Has anyone ever thought that our current society is far more sexist to men?

 

Because I can't get my thoughts out clearly, this is a fairly honest question on my part, simply looking for what people think. While I don't want to slink out of my original post, I will say that "far more" should definitely be "fairly."

 

Before killing me, think about it. A girl can act any way they like. If they are told they shouldn't act that way, the person saying that is labeled, quite rightfully, sexist.

 

If a girl acts traditionally girl-like, they are a "girly girl," if not a "tomboy." While I seriously dislike these labels, as they assume one gender is typically one way, but at least they are on fairly equal footings.

 

Now what if a boy acts traditionally feminine? There are terms for that, but they are all negative, to say the least.

No, I don't agree at all that current society is more sexist to men.

 

What you're saying here is that men who acts feminine gets more backlash than a woman who acts masculine, but think for a minute about why that is. The terms for a man who acts feminine are negative because femininity is seen as negative. It's the feminine qualities that are seen as bad, not the men themselves.

 

If there was less sexism toward women, if femininity wasn't considered inferior to masculinity, the backlash toward feminine qualities in men wouldn't be there.

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There's also the issue of makeup, which I don't wear, and I'm pretty sure I'll never get a job because I don't like makeup. I get nervous a lot in public, and I tend to rub my face or eyes in public as well due to nervousness. I can't do that when I have makeup caked on, as then I get a mass of makeup on my sleeve.

I'm female bodied, and I don't wear makeup at all. I've been holding down a job for years. It's perfectly possible, and you can even be happy in your job, just don't for Gods sake try and work in an office. That's where you'll get the trouble for not conforming to stereotypes.

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I don't consider all makeup bad for skin either, outside of the fact that it is applying foreign substances to one's face.

 

And of course, one can like wearing makeup, there is nothing wrong with that. Lots of people like to dress up. I believe there is something askew with the world when the default for women is to be seen as ugly and unkempt if they don't put foreign substances on their skin, however. Not seen as women. Men are not required to put silica on their eyelids and wax on their lips in order to be viewed as "presentable"; they go unadorned, natural. Women cannot just be women and be seen as beautiful and presentable, whereas men can. That was my point.

 

I'm willing to bet that you, Kila, are just as pretty without makeup as you are with it. You like wearing makeup, which is not at all wrong. It's a choice...except...it isn't, not really. Women have been fired for not wearing makeup, and since men are not required to wear makeup, this is not an equitable position. Makeup is expensive, many people find it uncomfortable, the cheapest kind is the most damaging to skin. So, women have to lay out money and risk their health (even good makeup can deteriorate skin) in ways men don't for the same jobs. What would happen to your women wait-staff if they all came to work putting equal effort into their presentation as the men? Their hair clean, nicely combed and cut, styled...and not a speck of makeup in sight? Their bodies showered, squeaky clean, and equally unshaved? I'm guessing they wouldn't have a job long, because society makes unequal demands on women for them to be presentable.

Are we talking before or after I've washed my face? I admit, I have amazing skin in the morning when I just wake up or right before bed. But once I was my face (I use an acne scrub because I have oily skin) it gets really, really red. Hence why I wear makeup in the first place.

 

I admit, my love of makeup started when I was twelve. For theatre. And theatre makeup is so bad for your skin. But I started loving eye makeup because purples really brought out the blue of my eyes.

 

I've never heard of a woman being fired for not wearing makeup on the job.

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