Sexism

[KageSora]

@Shienvien: I do not support "feminism", as the word is sexist already. Equal-Rights is what we want, not something artificially factured in to do something for women only. And that's the crap you typically get, like laws that say

 

"If they have equal education, you MUST take the woman."

 

that's not equal rights.

Feminism =/= female superiority.

 

Feminism = equal rights for males and females.

[Rosedamai]

Feminism =/= female superiority.

 

Feminism = equal rights for males and females.

THIS.

 

What, we can't use the word "homophobia" because that word is biased against straight people? Or what about the word ableism? That's biased against people who are not disabled. Or transphobia. That's biased against cis people. That's how ridiculous you sound right now.

[KageSora]

I do, however, understand the mistake--there are some very radical people who claim the title of "feminist" who are, in actuality, female superiority fans.

 

Mind you, they're CISGENDER female superiority fans--so too bad if you're a trans*woman.

 

 

They are not, however, proper feminists.

[whitebaron]

THIS.

 

What, we can't use the word "homophobia" because that word is biased against straight people? Or what about the word ableism? That's biased against people who are not disabled. Or transphobia. That's biased against cis people. That's how ridiculous you sound right now.

words and their usage are weapons in themselves, yes.

 

but worst are people who misinterpret based on wordings.

 

while I see no difficulties with homophobia or transphobia, ableism is usually used as a weapon, as is feminism, or many other culturally based "you are different" movements.

 

being more neutral would do a lot of those movements a big favor.

[7Deadly$ins]

words and their usage are weapons in themselves, yes.

 

but worst are people who misinterpret based on wordings.

 

while I see no difficulties with homophobia or transphobia, ableism is usually used as a weapon, as is feminism, or many other culturally based "you are different" movements.

 

being more neutral would do a lot of those movements a big favor.

How is homophobia NOT used as a weapon while feminism is?

[whitebaron]

How is homophobia NOT used as a weapon while feminism is?

homophobia is a fear of something that is actually used by those who "are it" themselves. so it is a rather technical, impartial term.

 

feminism, on the other hand...

 

I do, however, understand the mistake.

 

it is not a mistake. i do not support the usage of the word, as it is used a) for various stuff and c) stresses females as their primary concern. there are even feminists who criticise the same, so why all the ridicule here as a response when i just say - i dont support the word?

[KageSora]

How is homophobia NOT used as a weapon while feminism is?

I'm wondering the same thing.

 

I see both homophobia and trans*phobia being tossed around as weapons all the time, just as much as feminism or racism or ableism.

 

 

homophobia is a fear of something that is actually used by those who "are it" themselves. so it is a rather technical, impartial term.

 

...May I ask where, exactly, in the world you're from? Because I have very rarely seen homophobia used to mean actual fear--it's NOT usually used based on the "phobia" root, instead being used more to mean hate or bigoted and unfounded dislike than actual fear of homosexuality.

 

Because, guess what? Words are more than just their roots! They can have meanings that are actually very different from their roots.

Edited October 25, 2013 by KageSora

[7Deadly$ins]

I have never in my life heard someone claim to be homophobic themselves. This would be like claiming to be a racist.

[KageSora]

I have never in my life heard someone claim to be homophobic themselves. This would be like claiming to be a racist.

Yeah, same here. I always see people going "I'm not homophobic, but... [insert anti-homosexual(ity) comment of your choice here]".

 

I've NEVER seen anybody be a self-proclaimed homophobe.

[The Evil Doer]

Feminism = equal rights for males and females.

False.

 

Feminism is all about female rights by definition, as it derives from the word female - FEMInism, its not centered on equal rights for all but instead on female rights ONLY !

 

Feminism did wonders for women in all things involving bodily integrity, autonomy, and reproductive rights, all those literally have nothing to do with men as our biology is slightly different, hence to go and state that feminism is all about equality of rights for both genders is simply put false, coz feminism recognizes the differences between males and females and is mainly concerned with female agenda...

[KageSora]

False.

 

Feminism is all about female rights by definition, as it derives from the word female - FEMInism, its not centered on equal rights for all but instead on female rights ONLY !

So, by this logic, "gay" means ONLY being happy, yes?

 

Since, I mean, that's the original usage and all. And words NEVER EVER EVER NEVER change their meanings or are used differently than their roots or original meanings, right?

[The Evil Doer]

So, by this logic, "gay" means ONLY being happy, yes?

 

Since, I mean, that's the original usage and all. And words NEVER EVER EVER NEVER change their meanings or are used differently than their roots or original meanings, right?

You can use any logic that suits you but bottom line is that feminism exists to further female rights, it doesnt fight for gays, for minorities nor does it always support equality between genders, feminism is all about women, it is what it is, dont make it into some romantic notion thats all about equality for all humans, coz its not true...

[Rosedamai]

You can use any logic that suits you but bottom line is that feminism exists to further female rights, it doesnt fight for gays, for minorities nor does it always support equality between genders, feminism is all about women, it is what it is, dont make it into some romantic notion thats all about equality for all humans, coz its not true...

Excuse me? As a bi woman, I've gotten more support from feminists than some ~equalist~. Feminists were the ones who suggested immediate action after some traumatic experiences such as a former male friend threatening to out me. I've had more support from intersectional feminists than some stupid equalist online who just repeated, like some parrot on drugs, that everyone's supposed to be equal and that we should just only try hard.

 

Don't ever say anything about feminists not fighting for LGBT+ or people of other race; while there is criticism about the classism, homophobia, transphobia, and racism that certain branches follow, there are other branches, equally if not more valid, that support the equality of other people as well.

 

You're pretty much saying that women who are of other races or who aren't straight don't exist; also that feminists who are not white or who aren't straight don't exist, which is, to be frank, laughable.

Edited October 25, 2013 by ylangylang

[KageSora]

You can use any logic that suits you but bottom line is that feminism exists to further female rights, it doesnt fight for gays, for minorities nor does it always support equality between genders, feminism is all about women, it is what it is, dont make it into some romantic notion thats all about equality for all humans, coz its not true...

I never said anything about feminism in regards to fighting for minorities--I merely used the term "gay" because it's a word I readily know of to have a vastly different current meaning to the original meaning.

 

Since you decided to attempt to play at "word meanings based on their roots". Words change meanings. Movements have shifts in focus. It happens. I don't really see many people claiming to be feminists who are all FEMALES ONLY ALL THE TIME YAY VAGINA OWNERS.

 

And the ones who DO act like that... Are generally shunned by the others I've seen and it's made clear that they don't represent all of feminism.

 

 

Besides--there's different branches. You CANNOT just make a blanket statement that all feminism is strictly focusing only on female rights and those alone, because of the various branches of feminism.

[The Evil Doer]

Excuse me? As a bi woman, I've gotten more support from feminists than some ~equalist~. Feminists were the ones who suggested immediate action after some traumatic experiences such as a former male friend threatening to out me. I've had more support from intersectional feminists than some stupid equalist online who just repeated, like some parrot on drugs, that everyone's supposed to be equal and that we should just only try hard.

 

Don't ever say anything about feminists not fighting for LGBT+ or people of other race; while there is criticism about the classism, homophobia, transphobia, and racism that certain branches follow, there are other branches, equally if not more valid, that support the equality of other people as well.

 

You're pretty much saying that women who are of other races or who aren't straight don't exist; also that feminists who are not white or who aren't straight don't exist, which is, to be frank, laughable.

Im not saying feminists are bad, nor that they're not doing a great job or a much needed job, Im just saying they're furthering women rights , you are a woman, they helped you out, that makes perfect sense and its a good thing they helped you out and that they exist.

 

No no no I certainly didnt say that, I said feminism fights for women only, homosexual female (still a female), black female (still a female), women rights is what feminism fights for, feminism doesnt fight for male minorities, nor for male homosexuals, feminism is mainly concerned with female rights and not with human rights nor equality as it doesnt even support equal rights (pregnancy)... Not saying there should be equal rights in that aspect but I am saying that its a false statement to say - feminism = equlity for all

[Rosedamai]

Im not saying feminists are bad, nor that they're not doing a great job or a much needed job, Im just saying they're furthering women rights , you are a woman, they helped you out, that makes perfect sense and its a good thing they helped you out and that they exist.

 

No no no I certainly didnt say that, I said feminism fights for women only, homosexual female (still a female), black female (still a female), women rights is what feminism fights for, feminism doesnt fight for male minorities, nor for male homosexuals, feminism is mainly concerned with female rights and not with human rights nor equality as it doesnt even support equal rights (pregnancy)... Not saying there should be equal rights in that aspect but I am saying that its a false statement to say - feminism = equlity for all

Then explain how a local feminist group succesfully organized a shelter for men and women suffering from domestic abuse?

[KageSora]

Not saying there should be equal rights in that aspect but I am saying that its a false statement to say - feminism = equlity for all

I never said it was necessarily for ALL people, I'm just saying it's equal rights for males and females.

 

And, really, it's gonna depend on which kinds of feminists you're talking to. There's a large number who are all about equality for everybody, because nobody said that a group is ONLY ever allowed to support one thing, that movements are NEVER allowed to shift focus.

[whitebaron]

Then explain how a local feminist group succesfully organized a shelter for men and women suffering from domestic abuse?

One's main interest or occupation does not determine everything you do.

Just because you are feminist does not mean you need to turn everything else off?

[Rosedamai]

I'm never setting foot in this topic again. The myopic views of people on this thread disgust me. I merely wanted to share a video that I viewed as treating women, especially vulnerable young girls, as objects to be passed around from her father to her husband. I do not wish to explain feminism 101 to anyone. Good day and good riddance.

[The Evil Doer]

Then explain how a local feminist group succesfully organized a shelter for men and women suffering from domestic abuse?

Different branches operate under different rules, for every one of those there are a whole bunch of others who couldnt care less about anything except for women rights.

Feminism was a movement for women and it works mainly on furthering women rights everywhere, laws that feminists got to pass are female oriented (maternity leave, etc), I have nothing against feminism and I think it does a wonderful job in 90% of the cases but its false to claim "feminism = equality for all" when in fact its main agenda is women rights. Thats all Im saying.

 

[KageSora]

I think you're also severely missing the part about "dismantling aspects of the male-dominated society that are harmful to males" and all that.

[Rosedamai]

Different branches operate under different rules, for every one of those there are a whole bunch of others who couldnt care less about anything except for women rights.

Feminism was a movement for women and it works mainly on furthering women rights everywhere, laws that feminists got to pass are female oriented (maternity leave, etc), I have nothing against feminism and I think it does a wonderful job in 90% of the cases but its false to claim "feminism = equality for all" when in fact its main agenda is women rights. Thats all Im saying.

fem·i·nism  (fm-nzm)

n.

1. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.

2. The movement organized around this belief.

 

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

 

Call them and tell them they're wrong because you think so and your opinions obviously trump everything that's about the movement

[whitebaron]

Try merriam webster, instead.

Pronunciation: \ˈfe-mə-ˌni-zəm\

Function: noun

Date: 1895

1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

 

Emphasis on 2.

[Rosedamai]

Try merriam webster, instead.

 

 

Emphasis on 2.

fem·i·nism  [fem-uh-niz-uhm]  Show IPA

noun

1.

the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

2.

( sometimes initial capital letter ) an organized movement for the attainment of such rights for women.

 

advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

 

You saying that women should not have organized movements to attain equal rights to men? LOL

[The Evil Doer]

 

 

 

You saying that women should not have organized movements to attain equal rights to men? LOL

Maternity leave, pushed by feminists to help women (along with a lot of other female oriented laws), Is it a righteous law ? I think so, should there be laws that give women rights men dont have ? I believe so.

 

Is feminism supporting equal rights when they push for laws that support non-equal rights for men and women ? I think not... coz as it was stated many times before feminism is advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes. Not advocacy of human rights based on equality of sexes/races/religions...

 

Frankly I dont even understand whats there to argue about, is it really news to you that feminism is all about furthering women rights ? I mean come on, ridiculous notion... feminism is good but its for women only, we're not trashing it or smth, just calling it what it is - women oriented movement for women only !

Edited October 25, 2013 by The Evil Doer