Jump to content
Skypool

Sexism

Recommended Posts

Also... ylangylang, that ad?  Wow.  Just wow.  I guess the way to appeal to women is to include models in high fashion doing a catwalk strut, striking sexy poses, popping their feet cutely, and blowing kisses.  Throw in a lot of pink, lipstick, nail polish, blush, stiletto heels, add the suggestion that you will stop the hot men in their tracks when you enter the room, plus the suggestion that this is something AMAZING and daring and everyone will be in awe of you for being a female in this field, and you've got it made.  >_<  Not sexist AT ALL.

But of course. Females are naturally addicted to pink and cosmetics, are they not?

 

Sarcasm aside, I just don't understand people who say that "hey, this might get women interested in science!". Not only is it patronizing, it's portraying a false outlook on what science really is. It's not cosmetics and giggling, (from my friends' accounts, not mine) it's a serious field of study that gives you thrills when you've successfully conducted an experiment, or proved your hypothesis. THAT should be what the ad makers should have focused on. And even if it does get some female attention, I doubt that many of them, when finding out when science is really about, will stick it through. After all, Twilight did introduce girls to book reading, just that not many of them went seriously into literature and became rabid fans instead.

 

/rant

 

Oh yes, and I was also a girl guide for a short time while I was in Canada, I remember it being all outdoorsy.....

 

ETA:

 

Oh JESUS and now I'm running into people who's saying, well, cosmetics IS a valid bit of science, so y u mad?

 

'Course it is. But does it show how much chemistry and biology you have to know before doing that? No. Does it show the girls doing those sort of experimenting, making clothing, etc? No. It doesn't show them doing any ****ing thing. Why is that positive?

Edited by ylangylang

Share this post


Link to post
U.S. = Girl Scouts. U.K. and Canada and Australia = Girl Guides. biggrin.gif

 

Same thing more or less, but I don't really know about the differences... GSUSA was the head organization, and perhaps the regulations and structure were different for Girl Guides. (And I'm sure some things *must* have been different, like the flag ceremony/pledge of allegiance stuff, etc.)

T'other way round - the whole thing started in England.

Share this post


Link to post

T'other way round - the whole thing started in England.

Not saying the US started it, just that the head organization in the United States is the Girl Scouts of the USA, and that I'm sure that means there's the potential for differences.

 

As far as I know, Girl Guides began in England in 1910, Juliette Gordon Low created the United States version in 1912, and in '28 or so, an umbrella organization was formed for all Girl Guides and Scouts. But that's more like a confederation; I think the actual rules of each organization are made at the national level.

 

In the U.S., we're Girl Scouts, but we're aware that the other countries have Guides. biggrin.gif

Edited by Kelkelen

Share this post


Link to post
Sarcasm aside, I just don't understand people who say that "hey, this might get women interested in science!". Not only is it patronizing, it's portraying a false outlook on what science really is. It's not cosmetics and giggling, (from my friends' accounts, not mine) it's a serious field of study that gives you thrills when you've successfully conducted an experiment, or proved your hypothesis. THAT should be what the ad makers should have focused on. And even if it does get some female attention, I doubt that many of them, when finding out when science is really about, will stick it through. After all, Twilight did introduce girls to book reading, just that not many of them went seriously into literature and became rabid fans instead.

Actually, I also fail to see WHAT kind of science these girls are doing. One is writing down some equations, ok, but that's it...

 

Mainly, I see three young women attracting a young scientist. Like "Oh hai HOT scientist I'm a HOT girl wanna marry me? Look I'm even paddling a little with science myself!"

Share this post


Link to post

Mainly, I see three young women attracting a young scientist. Like "Oh hai HOT scientist I'm a HOT girl wanna marry me? Look I'm even paddling a little with science myself!"

"Yeah, I can even bend myself into a modelling pose next to the letter H which stands for Hydrogen!"

 

rolleyes.gif

 

 

A very good rebuttal by an actual female scientist <3

Edited by ylangylang

Share this post


Link to post

ylangy; that is an excellent article/discussion, and I'm glad you brought it up. I'm ashamed of what today's -society- thinks girls want as opposed to what -girls- want. Ick.

Share this post


Link to post
"Yeah, I can even bend myself into a modelling pose next to the letter H which stands for Hydrogen!"

 

rolleyes.gif

 

 

A very good rebuttal by an actual female scientist <3

Thank you for posting that rebuttal video. It was refreshing to hear someone so down-to-earth discuss the matter, with a willingness to see it from various angles and consider the possible outcomes. I thought the interviewer did a good job devil's advocating the ad campaign, as well.

 

*...still inwardly screaming about sparkly charm bracelets and scientists in stilettos with high-fashion safety glasses....*

Share this post


Link to post

>_>  I don't like chemistry because of the "girly" applications for it.  I like it because holy crap it looks freakin' awesome when you make green fire, or blue fire, or have you seen
?  There's so much cool crap you can do with it!  Things that explode, or light on fire, etc.  But, I suppose as a girl I can't like that stuff...  sleep.gif'

Not as awesome as

 

Or Rubidium in a bathtub.

Edited by Kestra15

Share this post


Link to post
Not as awesome as

 

Or Rubidium in a bathtub.

That is awesome. Wish my science class in middle school taught this, I'd been into science any time. We mainly just pricked ourselves and watched what blood type we were, which was interesting in its own right but not as much as this.

 

@Ashes The Second and Kelkelen: Yes, it's very frustrating to see comments upon comments saying some variation of "but that's what today's kids like!" I doubt that posing and not doing anything would really get people to like science.

Share this post


Link to post
@Ashes The Second and Kelkelen: Yes, it's very frustrating to see comments upon comments saying some variation of "but that's what today's kids like!" I doubt that posing and not doing anything would really get people to like science.

Well, the target group seems to be young girls that are so extremely into fashion and concerned about their looks that they wouldn't even dare to get their fingers icky <.<

Don't know why people are so anxious to get those people.

Anybody else could be easily got by just showing them just how awsomely interesting science ist.

 

Anyway I've always thought (or hoped) that being a scientist involves more than striking sexy poses in front of a male scientist dry.gif

 

Share this post


Link to post

Well, the target group seems to be young girls that are so extremely into fashion and concerned about their looks that they wouldn't even dare to get their fingers icky <.<

Don't know why people are so anxious to get those people.

Anybody else could be easily got by just showing them just how awsomely interesting science ist.

 

Anyway I've always thought (or hoped) that being a scientist involves more than striking sexy poses in front of a male scientist  dry.gif

Yeah, I bet they'd go like "pretty lipstick let's buy some more" the end. It's not really useful for getting anyone into science. What about the girls who aren't interested in science and aren't into fashion at the same time? They'd just say "boring" and change the channel.

 

Yes, but I suppose modern science includes learning how to pose and pout and strut as well. /sarcasm

 

Oh, and look at what one of the "gender experts" said, his name is Curt Rice-

I was 1 of 5 "gender experts" for #sciencegirlthing - the advertisers ignored our advice 100%. Will blog on the process, maybe

Working on #girlscience thing blog. I'll describe what we 5 experts actually recommended. None of it made the cut!
Edited by ylangylang

Share this post


Link to post
Not as awesome as

 

Or Rubidium in a bathtub.

That is amazing and awesome and it's no wonder they didn't show us that kind of thing in class. xd.png But that's awesome.

 

THAT is why science is awesome.

 

Yeah, I bet they'd go like "pretty lipstick let's buy some more" the end. It's not really useful for getting anyone into science. What about the girls who aren't interested in science and aren't into fashion at the same time? They'd just say "boring" and change the channel.

Yep. If I saw that on TV, I'd be like "Oh, some make up or fashion commercial. Whatever, let's see what else is on...", I'd have never stuck around for the science part.

 

But if they started off with science stuff, I'd be like "Oh, hey, what's this for?"

 

 

Well, the target group seems to be young girls that are so extremely into fashion and concerned about their looks that they wouldn't even dare to get their fingers icky <.<

Don't know why people are so anxious to get those people.

Anybody else could be easily got by just showing them just how awsomely interesting science ist.

 

Anyway I've always thought (or hoped) that being a scientist involves more than striking sexy poses in front of a male scientist  dry.gif

I don't understand it. I mean... As was pointed out in that response... They're not the kind of people who are actually going to stick with it, unless they end up developing an interest in it beyond the fashion-y stuff. I mean, I can't count the number of times I was drawn into something because of a cool-looking advertisement, only to discover that the advertisement actually was just to be cool and not, in fact, an accurate representation of what I was actually getting into.

 

I always drop whatever it is very quickly (unless it turns out to be interesting in a different way), and I'm more than happy to tell everybody to be wary if they're taking a look only because of the misleading adverts. It just defeats itself, really.

Share this post


Link to post

This may be completely off topic because I didn't bother to read much of these, but within boy scouting you have Venture Crews for girls who enjoy the more physical and outdoorsy stuff Boy Scouts do and less of the stereotypically "girly" stuff Girl Scouts do. It's for men and women 14-21. I'm part of a venture crew within by Boy Scout troop because A. There's women, B. We're allowed to shoot pistols on outings (Boy Scouts are no longer allowed to but Venturers are), and C. There's women. But seriously, it's a great program within scouting. I realize a lot of you dislike Boy Scouting as a matter of principle, but it isn't ENTIRELY gender-specific.

Share this post


Link to post

less of the stereotypically "girly" stuff Girl Scouts do.

 

Camping? Outdoors skills? Wilderness skills? Hiking? Community service?

 

waaaaaaaaaaat

 

Within badges and such there are tons of options so that girl scouts may expand their interests and try what they like.

 

What the troop does is highly based off of what the members of the troop want to do.

Share this post


Link to post

Camping? Outdoors skills? Wilderness skills? Hiking? Community service?

 

waaaaaaaaaaat

 

Within badges and such there are tons of options so that girl scouts may expand their interests and try what they like.

 

What the troop does is highly based off of what the members of the troop want to do.

I have to agree with sock here. When I was a girl guide we did everything, ranging from outdoorsy stuff from "girly" stuff. It wasn't just restricted to one thing. It seems to me that people are complaining that nowadays, when you become a default girl guide, you're less encouraged to do the outdoors and wilderness stuff, so you have to look for other options. Why can't we just let girls do whatever they want?

Share this post


Link to post
This may be completely off topic because I didn't bother to read much of these, but within boy scouting you have Venture Crews for girls who enjoy the more physical and outdoorsy stuff Boy Scouts do and less of the stereotypically "girly" stuff Girl Scouts do. It's for men and women 14-21. I'm part of a venture crew within by Boy Scout troop because A. There's women, B. We're allowed to shoot pistols on outings (Boy Scouts are no longer allowed to but Venturers are), and C. There's women. But seriously, it's a great program within scouting. I realize a lot of you dislike Boy Scouting as a matter of principle, but it isn't ENTIRELY gender-specific.

I do wish you'd bother to read my posts regarding the nature of the Girl Scouting program, and the opportunities I had within my own troop. I think they explain pretty well what goes on in Girl Scouting.

 

Any Girl Scout troop chooses its own program planning, but the organization (as it stands on paper) is primarily focused on outdoor skills and on fostering responsibility, independence and community service.

 

Also, Scouts is not a dating service. I appreciate the opportunity to work and play in an all-female environment, where the women don't have to "compete" with the men, nor feel any pressure to earn approval or attention from them, nor fend off unwanted advances. Obviously, the 'real world' is co-ed, but I believe it's vitally important to give young women the experience of an environment in which the gendered pressures of society are largely removed.

 

To me, the idea of enrolling girls in a Boy Scout "Venture Crew" undermines the purpose of Girl Scouting -- it suggests that these are "boy things" which you have to join the boys to do, since the girls apparently aren't capable of or interested in doing them. BUT THEY ARE.

Share this post


Link to post

I do wish you'd bother to read my posts regarding the nature of the Girl Scouting program, and the opportunities I had within my own troop.  I think they explain pretty well what goes on in Girl Scouting. 

 

Any Girl Scout troop chooses its own program planning, but the organization (as it stands on paper) is primarily focused on outdoor skills and on fostering responsibility, independence and community service. 

 

Also, Scouts is not a dating service.  I appreciate the opportunity to work and play in an all-female environment, where the women don't have to "compete" with the men, nor feel any pressure to earn approval or attention from them, nor fend off unwanted advances.  Obviously, the 'real world' is co-ed, but I believe it's vitally important to give young women the experience of an environment in which the gendered pressures of society are largely removed.

 

To me, the idea of enrolling girls in a Boy Scout "Venture Crew" undermines the purpose of Girl Scouting -- it suggests that these are "boy things" which you have to join the boys to do, since the girls apparently aren't capable of or interested in doing them.  BUT THEY ARE.

I should have read more carefully. I saw a lot of complaining about specific troops that stuck to stereotypically "girly" things and wished they weren't such. From my own experience of girl scouting in my area, there's practically nothing "outdoorsy." Girls in our area complain regularly, and look for opportunities to go on camping trips with our troop and other Boy Scout troops in the area. So based on a skim, and from personal experience, I gather that while the ideas of girl scouting may include those sorts of things, they aren't the main focus of the program, especially in areas like mine where there's still a strong gender-specific mindset. I was mostly kidding about the "women" comment. I joined for the guns and only the guns.

 

To me, it's something that shows that there's nothing gender-specific about loving the outdoors at all, and the fact that it's an organization within Boy Scouts is irrelevant if the membership is co-ed. Also, to my knowledge, girl scout troops are not able to attend BSA High Adventure bases such as Philmont, Northern Tier, and Florida Sea Base. Having been on two of those, they're such a great opportunity I hate to see anyone who loves the outdoors missing out. Venture Crews offer an opportunity for girls to attend those trips where they wouldn't have been able to before.

Edited by philpot123

Share this post


Link to post

I used to play boys soccer when I was little. I was only nine, so I didn't really 'get' the problem boys, or more often their dads, had with me. I had a short haircut, so I did look like a boy. I remember one game in particular where the other team figured out I was a girl. Their coach told the boys to target me. I had no idea what was going on, just that all of a sudden, they were really trying to hurt me. Two boys finally managed to hit me by sandwiching me between them-they bruised my ribs and knocked me unconscious for about ten seconds. My dad almost started a fight with that coach when the guy told him that was what I deserved for trying to play with the boys.

 

The next year, my elementary school soccer team played some of those same boys in an inter-school match. When I told my teammates what happened the previous year, they decided that only the three girls on our team would be allowed to score. We beat them 10-3.

Share this post


Link to post

Wow Dr. Pepper, nice job being idiots.

 

 

Really, they could have done something more to attract men, even making what would be referred to as a "manly commercial". They didn't have to focus so much on it not being for women.

Share this post


Link to post

No surprise Dr. Pepper 10 ended up making more foes and fans. I mean they not only went overboard with the ad and redirecting women on the website, but the number itself? No one likes 10.

 

Now 9... that's a good number to use. Men, women, everybody loves nine.

Share this post


Link to post

I dislike the Dr. Pepper 10 ads, too. The idea is that they want to broaden their market, because there's an idea that Diet and low-calorie drinks are only for women, but they want men to buy them, too. Stupid in execution.

Share this post


Link to post
I dislike the Dr. Pepper 10 ads, too. The idea is that they want to broaden their market, because there's an idea that Diet and low-calorie drinks are only for women, but they want men to buy them, too. Stupid in execution.

It kind of goes back to the fact that "ironic sexism" is still sexism. Sure, they're exaggerating or poking fun at the concept of hyper-masculinity, but tongue-in-cheek sexism still reinforces stupid sexist ideas, despite the attempted parody.

Share this post


Link to post
It kind of goes back to the fact that "ironic sexism" is still sexism. Sure, they're exaggerating or poking fun at the concept of hyper-masculinity, but tongue-in-cheek sexism still reinforces stupid sexist ideas, despite the attempted parody.

There have been so many occasions where a joke on TV has been told so much that people no longer understand that it's a joke because you aren't supposed to believe in it or because it's wrong and you aren't supposed to do it. Eventually they just start believing it's true, and it's really sad. There is a very sad amount of men who truly believe that women should stay in the kitchen.

Share this post


Link to post
I've never gotten over this advert to be honest.

There would be less problems if actors and models weren't so selfish that they'd degrade and devalue their gender for some money. I'd like to know if at any point were those actors thinking, "This is really sexist and wrong, why am I supporting this?". The people who created that commercial are complete idiots, but the actors don't need to be as well.

 

But I like how the top rated comment for that Ad is, "As shes not busy why isn't she making a sandwich?" rolleyes.gif

Share this post


Link to post

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.