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In my opinion they all look the same. There are only extremely minor changes. When I look up 'cute girl' on google, I get the same pictures as if I wrote 'pretty girl' and 'sexy girl'. If I look up 'ugly man' and 'evil man' and 'handsome man' they're vastly different.

Agreed. A bit sad now...

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user posted image

 

I wish more girls like this are portrayed in the mainstream.

Yes plz. That was me growing up. (Seriously. I would have died and gone to Heaven if I could have had a costume like that and an excuse to wear it. That is the Best Thing Evar.) It would be nice for media to acknowledge that people like me existed at best and were not abominations unto the human race at worst.

 

Yeah, its horrible how guys are portrayed in commercials, I feel sick rolleyes.gif

 

Here, let me give you a tip: if you want to come in and discuss something, don't present it to us as if we are the stupidest people on the face of the Earth with a thick coating of sarcasm. Perhaps, to demonstrate the fact that you get it, show a little sympathy instead of baiting us. If you come in trying to dominate the conversation, you already know exactly what you can expect, and if that's not what you want, why bother?

Edited by Princess Artemis

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I feel like, at least in the states, there is a lot less sexism actually going on then the news likes to go on about.

 

I mean--ARE there cases of sexism? Certainly--but then there's things like those milk commercials where they were joking about milk making women less PMSy. I found them really funny--but some girl with her pants in a twist found them oh-so-offensive and they got pulled.

 

There's a difference between true sexism and some light joking. People need to stop taking themselves so seriously. Honestly I love being a woman but there are times when I want to go out and slap my gender for being so dumb. e___e

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I haven't seen those commercials, so I can't say if they were genuinely offensive or not. On the other hand, joking about PMS is a tricky subject because it feeds back into the stereotype that women are more emotional than men and/or can't control their emotions because they're under the sway of their hormones, and whereas men are supposedly more rational. Which is nonsense, of course, but I've met people who genuinely think that way, and they don't need their attitudes reinforced.

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I feel like, at least in the states, there is a lot less sexism actually going on then the news likes to go on about.

Other than the movie I mentions I must be blind to sexism too. Stereotyping is something I see all the time and I guess that's considered sexism, but I've never actually been offended by any of it.

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I feel like, at least in the states, there is a lot less sexism actually going on then the news likes to go on about.

 

I mean--ARE there cases of sexism? Certainly--but then there's things like those milk commercials where they were joking about milk making women less PMSy. I found them really funny--but some girl with her pants in a twist found them oh-so-offensive and they got pulled.

 

There's a difference between true sexism and some light joking. People need to stop taking themselves so seriously. Honestly I love being a woman but there are times when I want to go out and slap my gender for being so dumb. e___e

To be fair some people seem to be able to see sexism in pretty much everything. This will often come as quite a shock to the original creators of whatever-it-is, because they probably don't percieve themselves as sexist in the slightest.

 

To a certain extent I have difficulty percieving something as 'sexist' when there was clearly no intention of putting someone down involved on the part of the 'offender'. But maybe that's just me.

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I came across this website on a friend's fb post and thought of this thread.

 

http://www.everydaysexism.com/

 

To quote the website's intro:

"The Everyday Sexism Project exists to catalogue instances of sexism experienced by women on a day to day basis. They might be serious or minor, outrageously offensive or so niggling and normalised that you don’t even feel able to protest. Say as much or as little as you like, use your real name or a pseudonym – it’s up to you. By sharing your story you’re showing the world that sexism does exist, it is faced by women everyday and it is a valid problem to discuss."

 

I would note that the website is aimed specifically at womens' experiences of sexism, so apologies to any men reading this thread if it seems a little one sided. Also, a word of warning, a few of the posts contain strong language.

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I haven't seen those commercials, so I can't say if they were genuinely offensive or not. On the other hand, joking about PMS is a tricky subject because it feeds back into the stereotype that women are more emotional than men and/or can't control their emotions because they're under the sway of their hormones, and whereas men are supposedly more rational. Which is nonsense, of course, but I've met people who genuinely think that way, and they don't need their attitudes reinforced.

If what I experience every month is any judge, we ARE more emotional than men--at least for a day or two, haha. xd.png

 

I think that most beliefs about gender are just silly fun. If someone's trying to deny a woman a job based on them being "overly emotional," then yes, that's sexism. But people who think even giggling about the idea of girls going nuts once a month is sexist are being killjoys.

 

And honestly, I enjoy most stereotypes (except for those that are really trying to be demeaning, of course!). I don't see the general belief of girls enjoying pink/being kinder/etc to be bad, because I don't feel forced by them. I like blue, but am I going to freak out if pink is usually associated with girls? No. Because that silly cliche gives me something to giggle about and rally with other women around jokingly supporting it. Most of us probably don't even like pink, but I'll be darned if we can't go around screeching our love for it anyway, haha! biggrin.gif

 

Honestly if people believed the genders to be perfectly interchangeable I'd lose a lot of my pride in being a woman, because there'd be no ideas behind the gender to be proud of. There's a difference between two things being equal and two things being exactly alike--girls and guys are both awesome in different ways, and that's ok. And girls and guys can also be awesome in ways that aren't considered standard for them (tomboy girls and very softhearted guys) and that's perfectly ok too. :3

 

People seem to think that, for example, the idea that pink is more girly forces everyone to follow that belief. And I simply don't see that being true, so I find nothing to be upset about it over. If you find someone beating their daughter for liking the color blue instead, then yes, by all means we should get upset! But focus on that instead of trying to stamp out, say, hospitals providing pink clothes for newborn girls and blue for newborn boys. That's just silly. wink.gif

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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If what I experience every month is any judge, we ARE more emotional than men--at least for a day or two, haha.  xd.png

This assumes that men are actually unaffected by their own hormones.

 

I don't see the general belief of girls enjoying pink/being kinder/etc to be bad, because I don't feel forced by them

 

Go into a clothes store for girls and boys. Discover for yourself how enforced that choice is simply by the fact that pink/baby blue/lavender are the only colors available on the girl's side of the store. You may not feel forced by that, but I guarantee you, many people who don't have the time to make their own clothes do.

ETA:

I came across this website on a friend's fb post and thought of this thread.

 

http://www.everydaysexism.com/

 

This is an interesting site. Will need an antidote on hand if I read too much of it though : (

Edited by Princess Artemis

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People seem to think that, for example, the idea that pink is more girly forces everyone to follow that belief. And I simply don't see that being true, so I find nothing to be upset about it over. If you find someone beating their daughter for liking the color blue instead, then yes, by all means we should get upset! But focus on that instead of trying to stamp out, say, hospitals providing pink clothes for newborn girls and blue for newborn boys. That's just silly. wink.gif

Yeah I don't get why so many girls dislike pink. I know pink just represents females but that' starts from birth. Girls are wrapped in a pink blanket and boys in a blue. If it were swapped I guarantee you most girls would be hating on blue. I just don't like pastels of any kind because they're just not interesting to me, including pale pink and baby blue. Bright and neon pinks are fine as well as bright blues.

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This assumes that men are actually unaffected by their own hormones.

+1 rolleyes.gif ...And, at that, many women don't even get PMS, myself amongst them.

Besides, emotions are just as likely to be caused by it being a bad day, the person having gotten not enough sleep or having a headache, problems at work, you name it.

 

Blue, by the way, was mostly associated with girls (and red/pink with boys) for a long time. It was swapped sometime during the 20th century.

As for me, I am not particularly fond of pink - but then again, I generally hold a preference to darker colors. I don't wear yellow either.

Edited by Shienvien

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Yeah, its horrible how guys are portrayed in commercials, I feel sick rolleyes.gif

 

Here, let me give you a tip: if you want to come in and discuss something, don't present it to us as if we are the stupidest people on the face of the Earth with a thick coating of sarcasm. Perhaps, to demonstrate the fact that you get it, show a little sympathy instead of baiting us. If you come in trying to dominate the conversation, you already know exactly what you can expect, and if that's not what you want, why bother?

Thanks for the tip but then again if me using sarcasm somehow makes you feel stupid thats kind of how you choose to see things and not necessarily how things indeed are, and choosing to ignore the topic while concentrating on the method of presentation is simply put deflecting, had you wanted to discuss something you would discuss it regardless of the presentation...

 

Regarding showing sympathy instead of baiting you, come on now, 10% of the girls posting here think that sexism goes both ways, and that its way tougher on women, with those posters I completely agree, but then again when the other 90% make it look like "man is the devil" and that all day long we go walking around thinking of new ways to keep the women down, well, in such one-dimensional thread is there truly a discussoin at all or more of a bash party ?

Why bother you ask, well coz I give you the contra, making the thread a bit more fun (at least for me) where is the discussion at all if everybody agrees anyhow ? Somebody has to play the devils advocate otherwise things are just dull, its called sexism for crying out loud yet Im being told that I dont really get the other side of the coin, and Im being told so by a woman who claims that "ideal beauty" is a girls only club... geez, I must get more creative after all brad pitts, leonardo dicaprios, channing whatever his name is are only my imaginary friends (wait was that slightly sarcastic unsure.gif goddamnit, I cant get anything right dry.gif )

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I believe that male sexism exists. However, I would like to be so horrible as to say male sexism does not affect males as much as they do women. The reason for this is that as much as there are strong males that have huge muscles and get all the girls, there are also scrawny nerdy guys who are afraid but a woman gives him the strength he needs, there are evil abomnation-guys who are horrible people but are still given deep philosophies and backstories, just like the heros. You can be spiderman, a nerd who is yelled at by his boss by day (ronery bachelor) and a hero by night. In short, while male sexism exists, they also explore the concept of the 'ugly male', or the 'evil' male, and there is a greater variety of males in the media, sexualized and not (although some may consider the Joker pretty hot...). This allows males to 'back away' from their sexist media because there are NOT-sexy male figures that are considered great characters, given constant positive criticism. You can be a Quasimodo as a male.

 

Conversely, every single woman looks the same in the media. There is no similar range. The 'evil' woman looks the same as the 'beautiful' woman, just with different clothes. Criticism of the female emphasize a 'strong, sexy woman' ideal. A criticism of a male is a range of 'evil, beastly, cowardly, nerdy, manly, zealous, apathetic, etc'. So while male sexism does exist pervasively, there is more freedom for a male to 'back away' from male sexism, to other, less attractive but still just as loved roles. A woman has no such freedom. This is the difference between female and male sexism.

 

Am I doing it right?

This isn't horrible, this is absolutely right. I'm gonna go ahead and run with the "Quasimodo" reference there and bring up a blatantly obvious example of this. You can be Quasimodo and still find a beautiful love. You see this trend in TV shows, too, where non-buff guys end up with gorgeous wives - King of Queens, as one example. Now, allowing an "ugly" character to find love is absolutely a good thing, I don't argue that. However, how often do you see an "ugly" woman finding a good-looking man to love her? Or hell, finding *anyone* to love her?

 

I can't think of a single solitary example, so I challenge you all to. And I don't mean that "nerdy but cute until she puts on some makeup and styles her hair and then she's hot" garbage, because that's a crock of bull - I mean overweight, slightly droopy, frizzy hair normal.

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Thanks for the tip but then again if me using sarcasm somehow makes you feel stupid thats kind of how you choose to see things and not necessarily how things indeed are, and choosing to ignore the topic while concentrating on the method of presentation is simply put deflecting, had you wanted to discuss something you would discuss it regardless of the presentation...

Where did I say it made me feel stupid?

 

If I choose not to engage with someone who is clearly derailing, despite the fact that I might very well wish to discuss the topic under different circumstances, you bet it has to do with how they present it.

 

So, since you give every indication that all you want to do here is bait, get a rise out of people, throwing made up statistics like nine out of ten posters in this thread are misandrist man haters ("90% make it look like "man is the devil" and that all day long we go walking around thinking of new ways to keep the women down"), then...yeah, not talking to you any more.

 

This isn't horrible, this is absolutely right. I'm gonna go ahead and run with the "Quasimodo" reference there and bring up a blatantly obvious example of this. You can be Quasimodo and still find a beautiful love. You see this trend in TV shows, too, where non-buff guys end up with gorgeous wives - King of Queens, as one example. Now, allowing an "ugly" character to find love is absolutely a good thing, I don't argue that. However, how often do you see an "ugly" woman finding a good-looking man to love her? Or hell, finding *anyone* to love her?

 

I can't think of a single solitary example, so I challenge you all to. And I don't mean that "nerdy but cute until she puts on some makeup and styles her hair and then she's hot" garbage, because that's a crock of bull - I mean overweight, slightly droopy, frizzy hair normal.

 

The only example I can think of is that one show with both characters that are very overweight. It's a funny show, Mike and Molly I think it is. But, if you look around, it won't take long to find people shouting and wailing about how 'morally irresponsible' it is to show fat people on TV as if they were OMG *gasp* human beings. Frankly, the criticism of the show is outright depressing.

 

ETA: I have a bit of an issue with a lot of sitcoms too--most of those plain, regular guys? They are also portrayed as stupid and bumbling nowadays who can't do anything right. That's not cool.

Edited by Princess Artemis

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Where did I say it made me feel stupid?

 

If I choose not to engage with someone who is clearly derailing, despite the fact that I might very well wish to discuss the topic under different circumstances, you bet it has to do with how they present it.

 

So, since you give every indication that all you want to do here is bait, get a rise out of people, throwing made up statistics like nine out of ten posters in this thread are misandrist man haters ("90% make it look like "man is the devil" and that all day long we go walking around thinking of new ways to keep the women down"), then...yeah, not talking to you any more.

 

Calling the lack of ability to see the men POV by many of the members here is now derailing.. If you say so...I was only saying it the way it looks to me, talking about getting both sides....

 

.... but so be it, what we had we had, neither of us wont be mad wink.gif

Edited by The Evil Doer

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I can't think of a single solitary example, so I challenge you all to. And I don't mean that "nerdy but cute until she puts on some makeup and styles her hair and then she's hot" garbage, because that's a crock of bull - I mean overweight, slightly droopy, frizzy hair normal.

I have a hard time discerning prettiness in people. To me all those fancied up actresses look normal if not slightly frightening.

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If what I experience every month is any judge, we ARE more emotional than men--at least for a day or two, haha.  xd.png

You, maybe. But that's not how it is for all of us. More often than not, I'm either apathetic or mildly depressed both before and for the duration of my "special time", or there is little to no emotional change at all.

 

And I have to wonder how many people use "PMS" as an excuse to just be a raging censorkip.gif sometimes? You know it has to happen.

 

Go into a clothes store for girls and boys.  Discover for yourself how enforced that choice is simply by the fact that pink/baby blue/lavender are the only colors available on the girl's side of the store.  You may not feel forced by that, but I guarantee you, many people who don't have the time to make their own clothes do.

Oh god yes, THIS.

 

I, for the longest time, shopped only in the unisex or boys section for my clothes, until such time as my body required female clothing. And it pisses me the hell off, too, because I don't want any censorkip.gif pink shirt with purple flowers on it, damnit! I want that black shirt with the dragon made of white-blue tribal tattoo-style flames! D< I don't want the "cute little white shirt with the frills and the V-cut that goes halfway down my torso", I want the blue-and-black flame-pattern shirt. D< Hell, I don't want a shirt that shows off my boobs at all--I just want a shirt with a hole for my head that doesn't show any of my chest because I hate having boobs, and I don't look good in those shirts that show them off anyway and they're way uncomfortable for me.

 

I don't want that pretty little jacket with the flower stitched onto it. I want the jacket that has 50 pockets and looks like something you'd go into battle in.

 

But guess which ones I find in the girls' sections and the guys' sections of the stores? (at least looking online or in stores like REI makes getting the kinds of jackets I like easier...)

 

And y'know what? I'm sure there are straight guys out there who would love that light purple shirt with the butterfly pattern on it that's a girls'-only shirt. They'd just never come out and say it for fear of being labeled as gay for liking something so unmanly. (hey, look! Sexism that hurts guys! And good going for those who are secure enough with themselves to say they wish they could get a shirt like that!)

 

Or I don't want that really frilly, "cute" underwear--I just want something plain and simple without the lace or the frills because holy censorkip.gif that is so uncomfortable for me. But guess which I find far more of? No, I will not buy a lacy thong no matter how many you shove in my face or how much you tell me it's "sexy" for a girl to wear that. Just not happening. Ever. If some girls like that, that's great for them! But I don't like having that idea pushed on me. :|

 

I'm glad that at least I can usually find basic T-shirts in varying shades of blue, black, and gray--often with gender-neutral patterns like stars or dots or something, or better yet just plain.

 

 

/rant

 

 

Also: Re: sexism towards men

 

Yep, it's there. It may not hurt them as much as it hurts women, but it's still there, and still uncool and just as bad as the sexism towards women--ANY sexism is bad, IMO, no matter what kind it is or who it's aimed at. Man, that commercial with the men = pigs unless they have a condom? WTF, seriously. >_>

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The only example I can think of is that one show with both characters that are very overweight.  It's a funny show, Mike and Molly I think it is.  But, if you look around, it won't take long to find people shouting and wailing about how 'morally irresponsible' it is to show fat people on TV as if they were OMG *gasp* human beings.  Frankly, the criticism of the show is outright depressing.

 

I've only seen that show a couple of times but what I saw of it was cute.

 

There's no way I'm going to go looking for the anti-fat criticisms, just reading about their existence infuriates me. What's wrong with people that they're criticizing it because "OMG FATTIES!!!1!"? Just enjoy the show for being cute, Jesus Christ on a cupcake. >_>

 

I post 7 sexist videos towards guys and your response to it is... well girls girls girls girls... thanks for proving the point, this thread might be called sexism but its not really that is it.... like I said god job, carry on....

 

Yeah, guys, good grief. How dare you go and ask "WHAT ABOUT THE WOMENSSSSS" every time someone makes a post talking about sexism towards men.

 

...

 

OH WAIT rolleyes.gif

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Evil Doer, I do feel I'm stating the opposite of what point everyone is trying to make when I say this, but I'm going to say it anyway.

 

Women have, for centuries, been forced into this rut where we are the providers and where we have to take care of the children and go make you a sandwich when you tell us to. We're starting to break out of that rut. We're becoming successful. That being said, men's role, which have been very lax throughout that time, are becoming somewhat of an issue.

 

Men are becoming caretakers for their children. It's not just "stay at home mom" anymore. It's "stay at home dad," too. Men are becoming more feminine. Men are becoming... Well, not what the everyone expect men to be anymore.

 

I'm not going to lie. I have a problem with that (as I AM a sexist person, another thing I'm not going to lie about). In many parts of men not being "men" anymore, most of it IS for the better. I don't have a problem with the improvements, no. I do have a problem about the regressions, though. It's already been said (here, I believe. If not here, then here's the link to an article, written by a MAN, no less [note: I do think it's ridiculous that the man does tell men to man up, but, from what I've witnessed, men can do that to other men]) that men are becoming more childish. That they're becoming more immature. That they're essentially just giving up because women are becoming more individual. What makes me so irritated about men who complain about how they get a crap rap is that most of them ARE the men who have become immature. Their excuse? "My mom/girlfriend/wife does everything for me and won't let me do anything for myself."

 

I think that's the worst excuse ever.

 

I know a certain 16 y/o boy whose mother DOES do everything for him, and he's one of those that complain constantly about everything. What does he complain most about, though? How his mom never does anything right for him. How she never lays out the clothes he wants to wear or how she doesn't cook the food how he likes it or this and that... And he's got one of the loudest voices when it comes to men not being able to do anything because of women. Mind you, this child is the very same who throws a fit when his mother tells him to get up off his ass and do something for himself. A mom who didn't baby him. A boy who forced his mom into doing things for him.

 

My stepfather is the very same way with my mother. He won't do anything; he makes her do everything. It wasn't until recently that she threatened him and made him do his own things. Did it work? Hardly.

 

Men rely too much on women. We've HAD to start becoming more adept at everything else because, as I feel, men had started to stop. Stop what? Everything a woman used to rely on a man for. So, I really feel like blaming women for men's immaturity issues is wrong. Did you say that? No. But am I making the point? Yes. Why? Because you complain about men having these sexist stereotypes. You seem to ignore the fact that women have dealt with them much, much longer than men.

 

In my personal opinion, it seems to me that men have the easier break. You USED to be required to be the provider, the protector, the MAN. But you're no longer required to be this. (Not in America, anyway.) Women are still battling those sexist stereotypes. We're required to be pretty. We have to be mothers. We must make dinner for our husbands. Now, we've got the added benefit of how we have to be successful in the work place. (Which, by the way, a man's average income for the year is much higher than a woman's. Don't believe me? Here's a nice graph with different races included, too.)

 

I mean, hell. What do you want us to do? Do you want us to argue against the bettering ideals for men? Do you want us to argue that a man should never be a stay at home dad or that men should never become nurses or anything else of the like? Things are getting better for men, period. You guys aren't expected to have 9 million children all the while working and taking care of your man. I've seen more commercials aimed towards men POSITIVELY. How Dr. Pepper ISN'T for women, how men don't need women, they've got Xbox for Christ's sake! and all these other things that make MEN think negatively about WOMEN or make them have unrealistic expectations about women. tongue.gif

Ok, first of all, I wasnt complaining...

 

I think women have it much worse, after all women werent considered rational beings 100 years ago hence couldnt even vote.

 

It is harder being a woman, even if simply coz men are stronger hence are "predators". At work place you have to work twice as hard coz lets face it, some guys will always say you got the job coz of your looks, women have to do way more things at the same time as opposed to men... I agree with you on all of those, completely.

 

As I said I wasnt complaining, I found the commercials to be funny even though they were sexist towards men, the point was so what ? Most of these commercials exist with one goal and one goal only, to sell the product, sex sells, thats the reality, commercials are there not to put women down but simply to sell the product, just like "angelicdragonpuppy" said it (brilliant post btw ADP), some of these things are ridiculous, women are beautiful for being women and men are beautiful for being men, in order to reach equality it doesnt mean we must become one gender, I know plenty of successful, smart confident women and each one of them is proud to be a woman and whats not to be proud of ?

 

Fuzzy said I claimed there is oversensitivity going on in here, and I did, not only by girls here but also guys, hospitals make pink clothes for girls, seriously thats so offensive ? guy opens up a door for you and you see it as some horrible act blink.gif wonder woman's hip doesnt look realistic in a comic book blink.gif its a comic book for crying out loud, wonder woman beats the living crap out of thousands of guys, she's the definition of a strong independent woman and yet people in here will find something sexist there too, so yup, oversensitivity is about right...

Rape camps in Darfur, guy not giving a girl the job coz of her gender, sexual harassments, druggin girls in the clubs, telling a girl to make a sandwich, thats sexism, thats ugly that is disturbing, offensive, something everybody should get upset over but some of the things here are just... There is sexism in this world, it is harder to be a woman, and you can find sexism in almost every aspect of life but in some of those aspects... accepting that there is sexism, fighting it when it matters Im all for that, but to stop and examine all the little things looking for sexism, of course one will find it but what does that serve except for costing you your nerves and fuelling your hatred towards men ? As a man, thats what I see here, so basically, be honest for a second, is there anything I can do as a man that you wont find sexist in some way ? When I read some of the things here, its like a lost cause, it doesnt matter what my intent is, it doesnt matter what I do, you will find something sexist in it, if Im a gentleman Im sexist, if Im a prick Im sexist, if Im not sensitive enough Im sexist, if Im oversensitive then Im treeating you like you cant handle it hence also sexist, there is nothing we as men can do to get it right.. thats how it looks, tell me Im wrong... sad.gif

 

Regarding men being big babies... yup, we are, we have many flaws, true....

Edited by The Evil Doer

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The Evil Doer, go back a few pages in the thread and read again. Then read again. Then read again until you get through your head that people can talk about little things without lessening the seriousness of the big things.

 

Because telling us that we are oversensitive because we talk about little things is just such a wonderful way to dismiss us entirely. I guess the only way you'll take us seriously is if we talk about those rape camps 24/7 rather than our own lives. I find myself strangely unbothered that a man wouldn't take me seriously unless I talk about what he wants me to talk about...

Edited by Princess Artemis

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The Evil Doer, go back a few pages in the thread and read again.  Then read again.  Then read again until you get through your head that people can talk about little things without lessening the seriousness of the big things.

 

Because telling us that we are oversensitive because we talk about little things is just such a wonderful way to dismiss us entirely.  I guess the only way you'll take us seriously is if we talk about those rape camps 24/7 rather than our own lives.  I find myself strangely unbothered that a man wouldn't take me seriously unless I talk about what he wants me to talk about...

Who is dismissing you ? Why is me speaking my mind somehow forcing you into anything or telling you not to speak your mind ?

 

Is there something specific you dont agree with ?

 

Sexism exists and its harder on women ? Do we agree ?

 

Equality shouldnt mean women acting like men but instead women being women and men being men and both of them being equals. Do we agree ?

 

Opening doors, pink vs blue, comic books, am I allowed to find it absurd or do I must agree with everything you say ?

 

Sex sells both for women and men ? Agree or not ?

 

Can you honestly say that a man can act in any manner without you finding his actions sexist in some manner ? I feel like I cant win no matter what I do, are you claiming otherwise or do you agree ?

 

Oversensitivity issue, you reckon people here (of both genders) arent easily offended ? Arent being oversensitive ?

 

 

Edited by The Evil Doer

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I post 7 sexist videos towards guys and your response to it is... well girls girls girls girls... thanks for proving the point, this thread might be called sexism but its not really that is it.... like I said god job, carry on.... tongue.gif

Well, to be fair:

 

I posted one video about hyper-sexualized portrayal of women in advertising, only one other poster had replied so far, and your reply was ONLY men men men men. Nothing actually in response to either of our posts. And neither of us was saying men "have it easy" or are portrayed realistically or fairly in the media.

 

As for your examples, I've watched them all -- and while the pigs one is REALLY stupid and offensive, I definitely see the gendered stereotypes cutting both ways in all of them (that's BOTH. Not "anti-woman, but men are fine," since that's what you usually seem to hear. BOTH).

 

In the first one, men are pigs and women are a.) cold censorkip.gifs who won't pay attention to you or else b.) dumb enough that as soon as you have a condom, you're a stud.

 

In the break-up one, the man is dense, and the woman is first timid and evasive, then irrationally angry.

 

In the ice cream one, the boy is -- well, maybe dumb, or maybe just likes the girl and wants to be nice to her, while the girl is a manipulative cold-hearted censorkip.gif at the tender age of 10 or something.

 

In the camera one, the whole point is that the dad is NOT a horse's rear end, cause he's a good dad, and it's all a joke about how face-finders choose to focus on the wrong part of the frame, and how this camera won't (true story, my friend C. and I are both busty, and the face-finder *always* focuses on our boobs instead of our faces!).

 

The pizza one, the woman is speaking innocently and happily, not critically -- there's no implication that she said what she did to be mean, though of course I understand the unfair pressure on men to never have trouble 'performing'; and did you happen to notice that the TOP-rated comment on that video is a statement that the woman in the ad is ugly?

 

As for the Old Spice ad... okay. Clearly, it's being silly by saying you can be the magical super-stud to end all super-studs if you just use the right cologne -- it's tongue-in-cheek about usual advertising tactics -- but at the same time, it IS suggesting to men that all women want a man who smells manly, is ripped, with a deep voice, who buys her tickets to things and is rich and rugged. Yes, an unfair stereotype. Notice how one of the main ideas of the ad is that a man should NEVER smell like a woman? Subtle misogyny/homophobia in that one.

 

The trash one has a rude, gross, overgrown man-child, but it also has a passive-aggressive woman who does the cleaning and resents the man without ever asking him to help her in the first place, plus the underlying assumption that the woman is the only one interested in or capable of spring cleaning.

 

In how many of those commercials was the man a sex object for female viewers -- showing a ton of skin, in physically helpless or submissive/inviting postures, perhaps only shown as a montage of body parts, valued only for his beauty and ability to sexually satisfy?

 

In the pig one, the man turns into a sexy guy at the end, but the idea of the *whole* commercial is that all of those sexy women are objects that the men want to "catch and have," and by the end he's figured out how to "get" the one he wants. So, he's not the sex object; the women are. Break-up man, ice-cream boy, camera man, trash boyfriend -- none of those are presented in a sexualized fashion. The Old Spice man is clearly meant to be sexy, but he's also active, take-charge, dictating the whole flow of the commercial, the camera, and supposedly the female viewers, luring them to him; he's more sexualized than the others, but I'm not sure if I'd call him a sex object. The pizza ad references sex, but the man himself is not objectified by the camera or the dialogue. So, of all those commercials, I would say that only the Old Spice one involves "an impossible ideal of male beauty that men are expected to live up to," and even then... as it's such an extreme parody, it doesn't actually encourage women to expect that ideal or men to emulate it, since it spends the whole time pointing out how silly and impossible these things are.

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I, for the longest time, shopped only in the unisex or boys section for my clothes, until such time as my body required female clothing. And it pisses me the hell off, too, because I don't want any censorkip.gif pink shirt with purple flowers on it, damnit! I want that black shirt with the dragon made of white-blue tribal tattoo-style flames! D< I don't want the "cute little white shirt with the frills and the V-cut that goes halfway down my torso", I want the blue-and-black flame-pattern shirt. D< Hell, I don't want a shirt that shows off my boobs at all--I just want a shirt with a hole for my head that doesn't show any of my chest because I hate having boobs, and I don't look good in those shirts that show them off anyway and they're way uncomfortable for me.

 

I don't want that pretty little jacket with the flower stitched onto it. I want the jacket that has 50 pockets and looks like something you'd go into battle in.

 

But guess which ones I find in the girls' sections and the guys' sections of the stores? (at least looking online or in stores like REI makes getting the kinds of jackets I like easier...)

 

And y'know what? I'm sure there are straight guys out there who would love that light purple shirt with the butterfly pattern on it that's a girls'-only shirt. They'd just never come out and say it for fear of being labeled as gay for liking something so unmanly. (hey, look! Sexism that hurts guys! And good going for those who are secure enough with themselves to say they wish they could get a shirt like that!)

 

Or I don't want that really frilly, "cute" underwear--I just want something plain and simple without the lace or the frills because holy censorkip.gif that is so uncomfortable for me. But guess which I find far more of? No, I will not buy a lacy thong no matter how many you shove in my face or how much you tell me it's "sexy" for a girl to wear that. Just not happening. Ever. If some girls like that, that's great for them! But I don't like having that idea pushed on me. :|

 

 

Since I shop in both sections when someone forces me to buy clothes (someone seriously had to drive me somewhere and make me buy things) and I have seen both positive and negatives on both sides.

 

Ive seen quite a few shirts that cater to the pervert in the men's section. I've also seen some really stupid shirts in the women's section. I've seen entertaining and funny shirts in both sections. Thing is a girl can easily get away with wearing shirts from the men's section, a guy with girl shirts? Not so much. He might get teased for wearing girly clothes. As for pants I've found plenty of cool ones in the women's section that come in dull browns, greys, and greens and have a million pockets. I've also found jackets like that.

 

As for undies...yeah the whole frilly crap is stupid, but you can buy plain stuff easily in packages, same goes for men. At least women have about a dozen variety of undies they can choose from.

 

I also don't explore clothing very often as it's just not my thing, I just wear whatever fits, is comfortable, and doesn't have something stupid on it.

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Well, to be fair:

 

I posted one video about hyper-sexualized portrayal of women in advertising, only one other poster had replied so far, and your reply was ONLY men men men men.  Nothing actually in response to either of our posts.  And neither of us was saying men "have it easy" or are portrayed realistically or fairly in the media.

 

As for your examples, I've watched them all -- and while the pigs one is REALLY stupid and offensive, I definitely see the gendered stereotypes cutting both ways in all of them (that's BOTH.  Not "anti-woman, but men are fine," since that's what you usually seem to hear.  BOTH). 

 

In the first one, men are pigs and women are a.) cold censorkip.gifs who won't pay attention to you or else b.) dumb enough that as soon as you have a condom, you're a stud. 

 

In the break-up one, the man is dense, and the woman is first timid and evasive, then irrationally angry. 

 

In the ice cream one, the boy is -- well, maybe dumb, or maybe just likes the girl and wants to be nice to her, while the girl is a manipulative cold-hearted censorkip.gif at the tender age of 10 or something. 

 

In the camera one, the whole point is that the dad is NOT a horse's rear end, cause he's a good dad, and it's all a joke about how face-finders choose to focus on the wrong part of the frame, and how this camera won't (true story, my friend C. and I are both busty, and the face-finder *always* focuses on our boobs instead of our faces!). 

 

The pizza one, the woman is speaking innocently and happily, not critically -- there's no implication that she said what she did to be mean, though of course I understand the unfair pressure on men to never have trouble 'performing'; and did you happen to notice that the TOP-rated comment on that video is a statement that the woman in the ad is ugly? 

 

As for the Old Spice ad... okay.  Clearly, it's being silly by saying you can be the magical super-stud to end all super-studs if you just use the right cologne -- it's tongue-in-cheek about usual advertising tactics -- but at the same time, it IS suggesting to men that all women want a man who smells manly, is ripped, with a deep voice, who buys her tickets to things and is rich and rugged.  Yes, an unfair stereotype.  Notice how one of the main ideas of the ad is that a man should NEVER smell like a woman?  Subtle misogyny/homophobia in that one. 

 

The trash one has a rude, gross, overgrown man-child, but it also has a passive-aggressive woman who does the cleaning and resents the man without ever asking him to help her in the first place, plus the underlying assumption that the woman is the only one interested in or capable of spring cleaning. 

 

In how many of those commercials was the man a sex object for female viewers -- showing a ton of skin, in physically helpless or submissive/inviting postures, perhaps only shown as a montage of body parts, valued only for his beauty and ability to sexually satisfy? 

 

In the pig one, the man turns into a sexy guy at the end, but the idea of the *whole* commercial is that all of those sexy women are objects that the men want to "catch and have," and by the end he's figured out how to "get" the one he wants.  So, he's not the sex object; the women are.  Break-up man, ice-cream boy, camera man, trash boyfriend -- none of those are presented in a sexualized fashion.  The Old Spice man is clearly meant to be sexy, but he's also active, take-charge, dictating the whole flow of the commercial, the camera, and supposedly the female viewers, luring them to him; he's more sexualized than the others, but I'm not sure if I'd call him a sex object.  The pizza ad references sex, but the man himself is not objectified by the camera or the dialogue.  So, of all those commercials, I would say that only the Old Spice one involves "an impossible ideal of male beauty that men are expected to live up to," and even then... as it's such an extreme parody, it doesn't actually encourage women to expect that ideal or men to emulate it, since it spends the whole time pointing out how silly and impossible these things are.

I cant say I have seen what you have posted, that doesnt mean I would reply to it, agree with you on that...

 

Emm, my post which was men men men, wasnt even meant to talk about that, but mainly to say how most people here dont view sexism as a two way street, I felt nothing when watchin those commercials, as I see them for what they are, commercials which means, meant to sell a product...

 

I admit, wasnt expecting you to go into it that hard, basically I honestly dont know if thats what you really felt when you watched them or are you trying to show sexism in them.. towards women too... Which is cool, either way coz I cant really argue with how you view things, can I ? Breakup for example, I saw a girl trying not to crush dude's heart and being nice about the breakup as opposed to a cold hearted girl, you saw her as what was that... timid and evasive, then irrationally angry. So, I dont know, maybe the whole different pov thing, cant argue with that...

 

Emm.. half naked sexy dude and you find it stereotypical towards women,I could probably say the same thing about guys then, but nvm, I am interested in another thing, how come you dont think guys are used in a same manner like women ? Are you really unaware of millions of women who want brad pitt, leonardo, all those new guys from twillight movies all with their six abs ? Im serioulsy asking coz whenever I catch a movie I see a bunch of hot guys and hot girls who cant really act, but who get the parts coz of their looks, you dont see that on tv ?

Its really hard to find a tv show where not all girls and guys are hot, matter of fact almost impossible if you ask me, do you really only see hot girls in all those ?

Edited by The Evil Doer

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Ive seen quite a few shirts that cater to the pervert in the men's section. I've also seen some really stupid shirts in the women's section. I've seen entertaining and funny shirts in both sections. Thing is a girl can easily get away with wearing shirts from the men's section, a guy with girl shirts? Not so much. He might get teased for wearing girly clothes. As for pants I've found plenty of cool ones in the women's section that come in dull browns, greys, and greens and have a million pockets. I've also found jackets like that.

Lucky! I almost never see that kind of stuff when I get dragged out to shop for clothes! I wish I did! Maybe I just get dragged to the wrong stores. xd.png

 

Though yeah, I do sometimes see some really nice stuff on both sides (or some really bad stuff on both) but more often than not it's very generically "girly" clothes filling the girl's section, with the only "cool" ones available only in the kinds of sizes somebody like a 3rd my size could wear... ;_; There's never any "cool" stuff available in a wide range of sizes, which drives me nuts... But like I said, I rarely see anything non-girly in the girl's sections anyway... >_<'

 

 

As for undies...yeah the whole frilly crap is stupid, but you can buy plain stuff easily in packages, same goes for men. At least women have about a dozen variety of undies they can choose from.

I am glad for that, but I really just don't appreciate having the frilly/"sexy" stuff shoved in my face with the way it's displayed in the store and the advertisements and stuff. I don't like having to wind my way through like 50 display stands covered in frilly underwear just to grab my pack of nice, plain stuff. Probably because I just have a major aversion to anything with frills or ruffles.

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