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arlymaye

Messy Lineages

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Your point is that if it's not to your liking, you'll make sure no one else gets it either.

 

No matter what your "ideal" is, by playing it as you are, you are depriving other people from what they can catch off the AP, because you have some idea that your ONE kill once in a while will actually make any difference whatsoever to the statistics.

 

Dragon Cave runs on huge numbers. That one egg that you kill is not going to make more "clean" rares come out for you to catch. It's going to statistically simply make the way for more "messy" rares to come out.

 

And in the mean time you've made sure that just because you don't like the way some people play, they can't have what you don't want.

That's very true Gwen.

 

 

Goslander, you and anyone else who take rares and kill them if you find out they have a 'messy lineage' or are inbred. . . You're all kind of selfish. That's all I can say. You get a dragon that you don't like the lineage of (and you can ignore lineages, as I said in an earlier post, because they don't affect the dragon you have) and instead of abandoning it so it can go to a home where it's wanted, you kill it, denying players that have no chance of catching a metallic or trio (except for inbred or messy ones that are often avoided) a chance to actually get one of those dragons.

 

I know we can play the game as we wsih, but what Gwen said is true. You might be playing the game you want to, but you're also denying those other players the chance to play the game the way they want to. And even more, you're not getting what you want either. Why does this make sense to you?

Edited by sapfirewolf

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Ahem, please be respectful of all members. As our beloved _Z_ always said, attack the topic and not each other. We can all have a very civil discussion without drawing blood. So, kindly refrain from personal attacks please.

 

I have enjoyed all the discussions so far and would hate to see this topic lock up.

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That's very true Gwen.

 

 

Goslander, you and anyone else who take rares and kill them if you find out they have a 'messy lineage' or are inbred. . . You're all selfish. That's all I can say. You get a dragon that you don't like the lineage of (and you can ignore lineages, as I said in an earlier post, because they don't affect the dragon you have) and instead of abandoning it so it can go to a home where it's wanted, you kill it, denying players that have no chance of catching a metallic or trio (except for inbred or messy ones that are often avoided) a chance to actually get one of those dragons.

 

I know we can play the game as we wsih, but what Gwen said is true. You might be playing the game you want to, but you're also denying those other players the chance to play the game the way they want to. And even more, you're not getting what you want either. Why does this make sense to you?

 

Do you realize that when one Gold egg is killed, it's taken out of the ratios, making it possible for another Gold to be bred?

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Your point is that if it's not to your liking, you'll make sure no one else gets it either.

 

No matter what your "ideal" is, by playing it as you are, you are depriving other people from what they can catch off the AP, because you have some idea that your ONE kill once in a while will actually make any difference whatsoever to the statistics.

 

Dragon Cave runs on huge numbers. That one egg that you kill is not going to make more "clean" rares come out for you to catch. It's going to statistically simply make the way for more "messy" rares to come out.

 

And in the mean time you've made sure that just because you don't like the way some people play, they can't have what you don't want.

You do understand you are depriving me of getting a rare I want by the way you breed, correct? Since we seem to both be hell bent on depriving the other of what we feel we need out of this game, I'd go ahead and call it square.

 

Anyway, I've been sufficiently cowed, and will amble off to nurse my wounds and sniffle over my metallic-with-a-nice-lineage-deprived scroll. Before I go, I'll offer this peace offering:

 

Messy lineages are the best! Breed them! Breed like mad, I say! Breed until there is nothing left but messy, inbred dragons! Whoo haha!

 

MESSY LINEAGES FTW!

 

 

*sniffle*

Edited by Goslander

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What would you rather people do with the commons?

 

I release them. That way they're in the system, but I don't have to have them on my scroll. Some people freeze, but I have a weird ethical problem with that and I won't do it to my own dragons.

 

Didn't TJ say that wilderness dragons actually don't count in balancing the ratios out?

 

 

On a more general note, I tend to breed short, PB, or specially lineaged dragons most of the time, not because I think that they're better - I don't, because like a lot of other people I started playing when it really wasn't an issue and getting your dragons to breed or catching something cool in the AP was way more awesomesauce than worrying about inbreeding - but because I know that a lot of the older players are going for CBs and a lot of the newer players hunt in the AP where it can be easier to get some of the rarer breeds. I like sending things that I know they can probably use for trades, to breed things for trades, or for joining lineages. I love all my dragons, but I'm aware that there's an economy in this game and I hope that sometimes it gives newer players a leg up in that.

 

I get that some people wish that longer lineaged dragons wouldn't get bred so much, but when those are the dragons that people (especially new players) have access to, of course they're going to breed them and play the game with what they have. I've always thought that for those players who would like to see shorter lineaged dragons make a comeback, a good plan would be a trade-in thread. People with a lot of CB/short lineaged dragons could sign up as breeders and folks with long lineaged dragons could request an egg of a breed of a long lineaged dragon they already have. When they get the new egg they release the long lineaged dragon. They get a short gen, people who want to see more short gens get what they want, and the long lineaged dragon gets to roam free, eating wandering dragon hunters that stray to far into the wilderness. And with teleport that project can would be a hundred times easier because no one would have to meet up.

 

 

I feel like one of the last players remaining who stubbornly loves inbreds the same as any other dragon, whose favorites are quite independent of lineage, who breeds indiscriminately, for my own scroll at least. Raising my voice in futile protest each time the topic comes up, and watching it be washed away like a flimsy little leaf on an overpowering current in a mighty river of disapproval. There are others, conservatives from a generation past, whose words fly by unseen (I love you rubyshoes and fuzzbucket) because people take "inbred=bad" for granted now, and speak of "clean" lineages without a second thought because it's become so widely accepted. Once upon a time, this would not have been so second-nature. Oddly enough, the conservatives of old are the more accepting.

 

I love all my dragons, too - inbred or not. And I really love it when I get an inbred egg where someone had purposefully made an inbred lineage (and I find more of them than one would think). I like to make matching inbred lines and continue them. The other day in the AP I picked up a beautiful autumn from what seems to be your seasonal project and it's just gorgeous. Btw, I looked to see if it was lost after I grabbed it because it was so full of lovely inbred goodness. If it was going to someone specific I don't mind passing it on, if not I'd love spending the next few years making matching inbred lines for it. smile.gif

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I personaly don't breed them, I use them for Zombie fodder.

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I personally don't care one way or another of how lineages are run. If I get a dragon, I get a dragon, regardless of what lineage it gets and how long it is. I have had plenty of CB's in the process of my hunting (in fact, I bet half of my dragons are CB's biggrin.gif ). However, with my plan that I've been running with ever since I started, I'll get dragons and either let them grow or freeze them after they hatch. I freeze them for the reason it's interesting how their sprites can be different between genders. I've even grabbed dragon eggs that were close to dying at the AP (dying hatchlings have been too quick for me xd.png), again not caring about what lineage it's under, and froze them after they've hatched.

 

In fact, on an off-topic note, I've recently rescued a guardian dragon that had less than 24 hours to live and while studying it a bit before throwing it into the ER's, I found out it was a Dorkface. Dorkface lineage for this little guy didn't start with the infamous pair per se but with their son. Can't explain why I am not seeing the infamous pair here. I was planning on freezing this little guy as soon as it hatched according to my original plan but since I found out, I am going to go ahead and let it grow. I just hope I don't forget to put Dorkface in its name once it genders. laugh.gif

Edited by Kamoodle

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I release them. That way they're in the system, but I don't have to have them on my scroll. Some people freeze, but I have a weird ethical problem with that and I won't do it to my own dragons.

 

Didn't TJ say that wilderness dragons actually don't count in balancing the ratios out?

 

 

That's what I had heard because some people were upset to find out that freezing and releasing wasn't helping the ratios.

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In fact, I've recently rescued a guardian dragon that had less than 24 hours to live and while studying it a bit before throwing it into the ER's, I found out it was a Dorkface. Dorkface lineage for this little guy didn't start with the infamous pair per se but with their son. Can't explain why I am not seeing the infamous pair here. I was planning on freezing this little guy as soon as it hatched according to my original plan but since I found out, I am going to go ahead and let it grow. I just hope I don't forget to put Dorkface in its name once it genders.  laugh.gif

A lineage only shows 13 generations. When it goes over that (which yours has), the 1st generation, then 2nd generation, then 3rd generation, ect. start to 'disappear' with every increasing generation. Another reason I don't like long lineages.

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I personaly don't breed them, I use them for Zombie fodder.

I bred one of mine then turned the offspring into a vamp because I wanted a vamp with a zombie parent. ......unfortunately he turned to dust instead of zombie so I'll try again next Halloween.

 

Congrats on your Dork, Kamoodle. It appears to be clean, too. smile.gif

Edited by Sir Barton

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I bred one of mine then turned the offspring into a vamp because I wanted a vamp with a zombie parent. ......unfortunately he turned to dust instead of zombie so I'll try again next Halloween.

 

Congrats on your Dork, Kamoodle. It appears to be clean, too.  smile.gif

Ha at least you have a vamp. I use to vamp my inbred and long lineage dragons for a while until I got into CB vampires. Now an egg has to be CB for me to vamp it. Unless it is for a lineage sort of thing.

Edited by Delphine

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Ha at least you have a vamp. I use to vamp my inbred and long lineage dragons for a while until I got into CB vampires. Now an egg has to be CB for me to vamp it. Unless it is for a lineage sort of thing.

Mine was for your Hell's Gate lineage. Sadly I have to report that Hell's Gate lost five members to zombie failure. Seems I just don't have the gift for zombification.

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Didn't TJ say that wilderness dragons actually don't count in balancing the ratios out?

 

 

That's what I had heard because some people were upset to find out that freezing and releasing wasn't helping the ratios.

That's correct. Dragons in the wild do not count towards the ratio. Therefore, freezing and releasing will not alter the pre set ratio. Some people do that not for the ratio, but to prevent a long messy lineaged dragon from maturing and breeding (thus, adding another generation to it's already lengthy lineage). This solution is temporary because the original breeder can still bred a sibling to the released dragon and the percentage of breeding vs. freezing/releasing is really too low to make any visible difference.

 

ETA : Another way of cleaning up long messy lineage is to KILL off the parents of said dragon. This way, the said dragon will have two tombstones in lineage, and some people feel that this is more acceptable. I have not done so, but I must admit, that I have some long lineage dragons that suddenly turned 2nd gen because of this and inbred ones became clean. Quite interesting really.

Edited by arlymaye

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I absolutely do not care - breed anything, I'm happy for you! - if the person breeding is going to keep any egg produced, including commons.

 

For those who are dumping the majority of eggs to AP, however (including yours truly), I do frown on the idea of breeding high-gen messy lineages. I would never go to the extent of telling someone else not to breed such things, but I don't breed anything metals over 4th gen- 70%+ of my metals are therefore never bred.

 

Do you realize that when one Gold egg is killed, it's taken out of the ratios, making it possible for another Gold to be bred?

 

^ this

 

And although I wouldn't kill one, I agree with Goslander that killing a 20th gen messy inbred metal is not selfish. It is the same as that metal never being bred. Ratios have a huge impact on breeding; it's why black/stripe x metal produces metals so heavily, ultra-common pairs produce more easily than rare or uncommon pairs, why balloon x gold comes out 95%+ balloon, etc. If the lineage is sufficiently "bad" whatever replacement comes out of the system will come out "better" on average.

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That's what I had heard because some people were upset to find out that freezing and releasing wasn't helping the ratios.

That's correct. Dragons in the wild does not count towards the ratio. Therefore, freezing and releasing will not alter the pre set ratio. Some people do that not for the ratio, but to prevent a long messy lineaged dragon from maturing and breeding (thus, adding another generation to it's already lengthy lineage). This solution is temporary because the original breeder can still bred a sibling to the released dragon and the percentage of breeding vs. freezing/releasing is really too low to make any visible difference.

I use to do that freeze and release but I don't bother anymore. It either makes for good zombies or I throw it back out there for someone else or freeze it and leave it on my scroll if I want a hatchie of that breed.

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I love long, messy lineages. I want them, and I enjoy looking at 'em. My younger brother hates them, but one of my friends will take in any egg, so long as it's not inbred, and even if it is, he'll keep it and freeze it. If it's a gold/silver/holiday dragon I'll take it, period. I don't care if it's got the messiest, most inbred lineage on the face of dragon cave; I'll accept it in a heart beat.

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A dragon is a dragon. i personally don't like giant lineages, as it makes a hassle, but i won't go 'OHNOES! It's not PERFFECTTT!' That would be silly. tongue.gif

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Didn't TJ say that wilderness dragons actually don't count in balancing the ratios out?

 

 

Really? No idea. Thanks for letting me know!

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I'm not a huge fan of long lineages, but I don't hate them either. However, I don't think breeding rares with long lineages is really a great thing. I've heard that there's certain amount of eggs of one breed that can be bred in a given time period. For example, there might be a total of 10 gold eggs bred in two days. All dragons have the same chance of producing one of those eggs, whether they have a long lineage or no lineage at all. So, if 100 gold dragons were bred during those two days, each would have the same chance of producing a gold egg. If 50 of those gold dragons had long lineages, and the other 50 had short ones, we might have 5 long lineage gold eggs and 5 short ones. Now, if we bred only the 50 gold dragons with short lineages, we would still get the total of 10 eggs, right? The only difference would be that all 10 of those eggs would have short lineages.

I hope that makes sense. D8

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I'm not a huge fan of long lineages, but I don't hate them either. However, I don't think breeding rares with long lineages is really a great thing. I've heard that there's certain amount of eggs of one breed that can be bred in a given time period. For example, there might be a total of 10 gold eggs bred in two days. All dragons have the same chance of producing one of those eggs, whether they have a long lineage or no lineage at all. So, if 100 gold dragons were bred during those two days, each would have the same chance of producing a gold egg. If 50 of those gold dragons had long lineages, and the other 50 had short ones, we might have 5 long lineage gold eggs and 5 short ones. Now, if we bred only the 50 gold dragons with short lineages, we would still get the total of 10 eggs, right? The only difference would be that all 10 of those eggs would have short lineages.

I hope that makes sense. D8

There's not really a limit like you're explaining, it's just ratios. When the ratios are balanced, no more Golds are needed, so they're not made. When ratios become unbalanced, Golds breed and produce Golds to rebalance the ratios. I can see your point though.

However, to some people a Gold is a Gold, no matter the lineage. They just breed it to get a Gold. I'm guilty of doing that, myself. XD

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Personaly I like short and clean lineages. I have kicked out Trio Eggs I catched in the AP with inbreeding or messy lineages because I know there are a lot people who will be glad to catch one regardless the lineages. Like I would be glad to catch even the most inbreed gold just to have one, thought I would be really thrilled to get one with a shot lineage. (One just dreams)

 

But I won't breed those dragons with long lineages I already have on my scroll If I don't wan't to keep the outcome or are willing to turn it to a Vampire (I know it will be picked up then) or block a slot with a dead Egg.

 

With commons like pebbles it's almost heartbreaking watch them beeing abadonned 5 or more times. If I am beeding for breedings sake (and not vor myself or others) I want the outcome to be a desired one by others. So I try to breed pretty lineages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The other day in the AP I picked up a beautiful autumn from what seems to be your seasonal project and it's just gorgeous. Btw, I looked to see if it was lost after I grabbed it because it was so full of lovely inbred goodness. If it was going to someone specific I don't mind passing it on, if not I'd love spending the next few years making matching inbred lines for it. smile.gif

I just looked at that one - what a beautiful lineage.... Congratulations.

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And you dropped them ? There's your answer.   xd.png

 

If I picked them up (unless by accident ! lag, misclicking etc...) I kept them.

I specifically picked them up (the eggs that are picked up and dropped multiple times while I'm stalking the ap) just to see if they were of longer lineages. They almost always were and, if they were of shorter lineage, and I checked usually there was an inbred ancestor somewhere on the lineage) I've done that pretty frequently just to test their viability in the day to day demand. Once I've dropped them the cycle begins again. smile.gif

Edited by Misha

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When I am grabbing from the AP, I usually prefer a shorter lineage. But I have my own lineages that are special to me that I keep breeding even if the lineage is quite long and rather messy.

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