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arlymaye

Messy Lineages

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Personally, I like the added challenge of building a CB/PB scroll, and I intend to have at least one CB Male and one CB Female of every dragon that's still available, eventually. I am very excited about Rare x Rare breeding for the sake of purebred rares, too.

 

That's just me and my scroll, though. I don't mind what other people do.

The only little bit of complaint I have about messy and/or inbred lineages, especially with the uncommons and rares, is that it affects the ratios. So there are fewer cave drops for the sake of long, messy, inbred metallics, trios, blacks, and so on. I'd rather see some restraint on the messy lineages, to get an increase on the CB drops.

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I own some very long lineaged dragons - including my Witch Legacy line that is now 41 generations and still growing and is only slightly inbred- one instance I believe.

 

That said I must admit the higher WL dragons I don't breed except for myself or by request. If someone wants an egg from one of the high gens just to say I have one that is fine by me.

 

I prefer to breed my lower gen dragons or dragons people may be looking for - metallics, thunder, magma, stripes and so on.

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The only point where "public opinion" matters at all is if the resulting dragons (or their children) ever appear on the AP. Because that is when the question comes up who wants such an egg.

Short/"clean" lineages eggs and CBs do get picked up more easily and have a better chance to find a loving home. Messy-lined or inbred commons often have a problem there, because clean-lined ones are easily available.

 

So, in the end, considering the lineage before breeding if you do not intend to keep any egg that may be produced is a courtesy to fellow players and the produced egg.

And looking at some eggs on the AP, I know their breeders didn't take the time to think about this. Because if you breed two messy-lined commons of the same breed and then toss the egg, I really don't quite understand why you bred that egg in the first place. To make someone else happy???

 

The answer as to why the egg was bred in the first place is pretty easy to answer. Plain and simple, it's because doing so made the breeder happy. Actually, this thread has shown that there are a number of people who would want such an egg because some folks like tracing the history of their dragons. They find it interesting to see how many breeds are in it's background, odd names, and various other qualities that these "mutt" dragons offer. Seeing as everyone has a different form of game play, I don't understand how breeding only for clean, short, or what some other players deem pretty can be really considered a courtesy to fellow players. What is wanted by some is rejected by others and in the end unless you are breeding something that someone has requested you don't know what the person that just clicked on the egg that you sent to the AP really wants.

People on the forums who are involved in lineages most likely do what something clean, even or pure but I don't think those folks are the average player. We know that the number of forums accounts is only a small fraction of DC players so who can say what sort of egg is valued by the silent majority? Even something commonly found in the cave might not show itself during the time you have to be on line so the messy lineaged one on the AP becomes a God send to the person just looking to add a pretty sprite to their scroll.

 

Just my two cents.

Edited by Sir Barton

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The answer as to why the egg was bred in the first place is pretty easy to answer. Plain and simple, it's because doing so made the breeder happy. Actually, this thread has shown that there are a number of people who would want such an egg because some folks like tracing the history of their dragons. They find it interesting to see how many breeds are in it's background, odd names, and various other qualities that these "mutt" dragons offer. Seeing as everyone has a different form of game play, I don't understand how breeding only for clean, short, or what some other players deem pretty can be really considered a courtesy to fellow players. What is wanted by some is rejected by others and in the end unless you are breeding something that someone has requested you don't know what the person that just clicked on the egg that you sent to the AP really wants.

People on the forums who are involved in lineages most likely do what something clean, even or pure but I don't think those folks are the average player. We know that the number of forums accounts is only a small fraction of DC players so who can say what sort of egg is valued by the silent majority? Even something commonly found in the cave might not show itself during the time you have to be on line so the messy lineaged one on the AP becomes a God send to the person just looking to add a pretty sprite to their scroll.

 

Just my two cents.

I certainly can't speak for players off the forum or for those who are more of the casual player but I do see that long lineaged eggs seem to have a much harder time being picked up. I wonder how many end up not being picked up at all? A second or even third gen does seem to have a better statistical chance. It would make an interesting project. Certainly there are players who enjoy the long lineages but are eggs lost simply because there is not enough demand?

 

Edited to add: I'm probably not the only one to observe this on the ap but I have seen many eggs picked up on the ap then dropped again multiple times due to what seems to be their longer lineages (I picked them up because i was curious to see what the issue was) so maybe players are now going more in the direction towards the lower gen eggs/hatchies perhaps?

Edited by Misha

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I certainly can't speak for players off the forum or for those who are more of the casual player but I do see that long lineaged eggs seem to have a much harder time being picked up. I wonder how many end up not being picked up at all? A second or even third gen does seem to have a better statistical chance. It would make an interesting project. Certainly there are players who enjoy the long lineages but are eggs lost simply because there is not enough demand?

 

Edited to add: I'm probably not the only one to observe this on the ap but I have seen many eggs picked up on the ap then dropped again multiple times due to what seems to be their longer lineages (I picked them up because i was curious to see what the issue was) so maybe players are now going more in the direction towards the lower gen eggs/hatchies perhaps?

And you dropped them ? There's your answer. xd.png

 

If I picked them up (unless by accident ! lag, misclicking etc...) I kept them.

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I certainly can't speak for players off the forum or for those who are more of the casual player but I do see that long lineaged eggs seem to have a much harder time being picked up. I wonder how many end up not being picked up at all? A second or even third gen does seem to have a better statistical chance. It would make an interesting project. Certainly there are players who enjoy the long lineages but are eggs lost simply because there is not enough demand?

 

Edited to add: I'm probably not the only one to observe this on the ap but I have seen many eggs picked up on the ap then dropped again multiple times due to what seems to be their longer lineages (I picked them up because i was curious to see what the issue was) so maybe players are now going more in the direction towards the lower gen eggs/hatchies perhaps?

This IS what I have noticed, actually. I tend to go lineage diving when I have nothing I want to raise at the moment, in hopes for something good that I can add to my collection. Eggs with odd lineages (Hollies, Zombies, or RarexRare ancestors) tend to get picked up more, even if the lineage is messy.

 

2nd gens, no matter the breed, are always picked up. Even gens too. Staircase lineages, if the breeds look nice together, tend to be picked up as well.

 

However, I have always wondered to the horribly inbred, badly lineaged egg that's never picked up...

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So, in the end, considering the lineage before breeding if you do not intend to keep any egg that may be produced is a courtesy to fellow players and the produced egg.

Why a courtesy?

 

I really dislike people thinking their way is the only proper way. If we were not supposed to inbreed, TJ would have made it impossible. And if we had to "consider" lineage before we dump an egg on the AP, I am sure TJ would have made a statement about that somewhere.

 

We all have a right to play the way we like.

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I've picked up many second gens and PBs from the AP and then tossed them back. Just last night I picked up the same white egg three times and threw it back before someone else decided to take it. Now I don't know this for sure but I don't think I can pick up an egg twice in a row so that would mean that at least two other people had to have done the same thing. There is a great deal of truth in the saying "one man's trash is another man's treasure." Yep, long messy lineages may get left behind more often then their shorter line cousins but eventually if they aren't picked up they "poof" in some manner so it's not like they are going to stay there forever and get in the way. I fail to see why there is an issue in them having a harder time being picked up. If the right person comes along they get a happy home if not they become vampire/zombie/neglected fodder and still serve a purpose. Worse case, they never get picked up and either end up in the wilderness or their code is recycled (or whatever else TJ does). No one is put out and at least the egg has made the breeder happy and had the chance to make someone else happy as well.

Edited by Sir Barton

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I've picked up many second gens and PBs from the AP and then tossed them back. Just last night I picked up the same white egg three times and threw it back before someone else decided to take it. Now I don't know this for sure but I don't think I can pick up an egg twice in a row so that would mean that at least two other people had to have done the same thing. There is a great deal of truth in the saying "one man's trash is another man's treasure." Yep, long messy lineages may get left behind more often then their shorter line cousins but eventually if they aren't picked up they "poof" in some manner so it's not like they are going to stay there forever and get in the way. I fail to see why there is an issue in them having a harder time being picked up. If the right person comes along they get a happy home if not they become vampire/zombie/neglected fodder and still serve a purpose. Worse case, they never get picked up and either end up in the wilderness or their code is recycled (or whatever else TJ does). No one is put out and at least the egg has made the breeder happy and had the chance to make someone else happy as well.

Right on, Sir your Lordship smile.gif

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Of course people should breed how they like. It's what makes it fun! smile.gif

 

That said, the only silver egg I ever managed to catch was a tad inbred with a long lineage. I killed it, as is my plan for any messy metallic I may find in the future. I figure it opens up a slot for metallics of cleaner, neater lineages, which are the ones I'm interested in.

Edited by Goslander

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Of course people should breed how they like. It's what makes it fun! smile.gif

 

That said, the only silver egg I ever managed to catch was a tad inbred with a long lineage. I killed it, as is my plan for any messy metallic I may find in the future. I figure it opens up a slot for metallics of cleaner, neater lineages, which are the ones I'm interested in.

Nice. So if you don't want it, no one can have it?

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If I could choose between say, a CB mettalic and a long messy ineaged inbred one, then I'd go for the CB , luike most people. If however, it was between the long messy lineaged one or nothing, I'd got with the long messy one and be really happy about it.

I like pretty lineages, and prefer them, but I still love my inbreds too. The only inbred I intentionally breed is my one and only beautiful Silver, but I doo breed others as well, partly when my people want the breeds, or because I forget which dragon has which lineage and breed it regardless.

I am involved in a few lineage projects, many of them personal, so if a lineage I get in the AP does'nt fit my current project, I may often have to put it back. I still love this messy dragons though, and I think it adds to the fun of the game by having more choice.

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Nice. So if you don't want it, no one can have it?

Well, yeah. With that egg gone, there is more space in the system for someone to breed the same breed egg with a nicer lineage, or even for a CB to appear. I'm always surprised when people use messy commons as vampire or zombie fodder, because that just opens up spaces for more commons when they could be opening up spaces for rares.

 

 

Wait . . . I found a quote that explains my reasoning much more clearly than I can . . .

 

I often catch inbred or ugly-lineaged rares out of the AP and I usually kill or bite them. Not "for fun" as suggested, but because for every inbred rare that gets killed/bitten, there's a possibility that a CB rare or short-lineaged rare might crop up in its place to fill that slot in the ratios. If I kill an inbred rare (whether it be by deliberately smashing it or as a by-product of a failed vamp bite), I am doing a good deed, because it means I'm taking a slot away from a less desirable rare and making room for a more desirable rare (yes, it's possible that another inbred one might just get created in its place, but it's still a worthwhile risk). And yes, I know that there are users who would love to have that inbred rare, but if I re-abandon the egg and someone who wants it catches it, there's a good chance that they will breed it when it grows up. Eventually they'd make another inbred rare, thereby increasing the number of inbred or messy-lineaged rares, which reduces everyone's chance of catching CB rares. Not only that, but along the way they'd probably make plenty of inbred commons and most people don't want them. 

 

Edited by Goslander

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I'd only breed them if they're rare/uncommon. like my trios or metallics. Not that they produce anything, anyway. xd.png

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Well, yeah. With that egg gone, there is more space in the system for someone to breed the same breed egg with a nicer lineage, or even for a CB to appear.

The thing is, someone who didn't have a metallic yet, doesn't care about lineages, and can't get one from the cave because their computer is too slow might have been overjoyed to recieve that messy lineaged inbred one that other palyers might not want.

 

In case you aren't aware, that's probably what Gwenhyffar was trying to say to you, and anyone else who kills 'messy-lineaged' or inbred rares. You are denying a player a chance to have that rare when it's unlikely they'd get a rare any other way.

Edited by sapfirewolf

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Well, yeah. With that egg gone, there is more space in the system for someone to breed the same breed egg with a nicer lineage, or even for a CB to appear. I'm always surprised when people use messy commons as vampire or zombie fodder, because that just opens up spaces for more commons when they could be opening up spaces for rares.

 

What would you rather people do with the commons?

 

Edit: Thanks for the thumbs up, Fuzzbucket. laugh.gif

Edited by Sir Barton

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I'd only breed them if they're rare/uncommon. like my trios or metallics. Not that they produce anything, anyway. xd.png

I do the same, I only breed messy rares when someone is wanting one regardless of the lineage. Usually it is because they dont have one yet and really want one. Other than that i think breeding dragons with messy lineages is completely pointless.

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The thing is, someone who didn't have a metallic yet, doesn't care about lineages, and can't get one from the cave because their computer is too slow might have been overjoyed to receive that messy lineaged inbred one that other players might not want.

 

In case you aren't aware, that's exactly what Gwenhyffar was trying to say to you, and anyone else who kills 'messy-lineaged' or inbred rares. You are denying a player a chance to have that rare when it's unlikely they'd get a rare any other way.

Exactly. I would WILLINGLY accept it however inbred it is and the rest. Just PM me the next time you find one.

 

(@ Sir Barton: Any time, your lordship tongue.gif We seem to think a bit alike !)

Edited by fuzzbucket

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What would you rather people do with the commons?

I release them. That way they're in the system, but I don't have to have them on my scroll. Some people freeze, but I have a weird ethical problem with that and I won't do it to my own dragons.

 

The thing is, someone who didn't have a metallic yet, doesn't care about lineages, and can't get one from the cave because their computer is too slow might have been overjoyed to recieve that messy lineaged inbred one that other palyers might not want.

 

In case you aren't aware, that's exactly what Gwenhyffar was trying to say to you, and anyone else who kills 'messy-lineaged' or inbred rares. You are denying a player a chance to have that rare when it's unlikely they'd get a rare any other way.

Yes, but that would defeat my purpose because the rare would still be in the system clogging up a spot for other rares, and I don't want to run the risk of someone catching it and breeding it, clogging up more spots. I edited the post with a quote that explains it nicely.

 

Anyway, this is rather off topic. The point is, I believe whole heartedly in people playing the game as they wish within the rules of the game. If that means breeding messy lineages, more power too them, and if it means attempting to stop messy lineages in their tracks, have at it. smile.gif

Edited by Goslander

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Personally, I don't like long messy lineages, and try not to breed or pick them up. I have nothing against people that breed them, though. I just release long lineaged eggs that I pick up and keep hunting. If it's inbred I'll freeze it for scroll-completion, but otherwise I'll let it grow up if it's ER, or abandon it for someone else to have.

The only dragons of mine with long messy lineages that I still breed are my metallics. I generally try to gift any metal from those dragons to noobs, just so they'll have their first metal. I know when I was a noob, I didn't care what lineage it had, as long as I had one.

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I don't particularly like long messy lineaged dragons. (especially if there inbred) Finding dragons like that are just to easy when passing time by playing in the ap. I hang around in the ap when I have a free spot and a lot of time. If the first egg I grab was ok no matter what I still have a lot of free time to waste so I tend to get picky out of boredom.

 

I do admit I treat the messy lineaged dragons on my scroll rather badly since I don't really care about them as much. I tend to freeze them as hatchlings which is great to since I collect and love a lot of the hatchlings but don't want to 'waste' a CB or clean lined dragon and when they do grow up I tend to give them really stupid names as a reminder not to breed them accidentally and add to the ap mess.

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While I would like to have a CB pair of every type of dragon eventually for the purposes of scroll completion/ability to breed PB's, I absolutely love all of my dragons with long lineages, inbred or not. I love looking through the many generations of dragons and seeing the number of breeds that went into the lineage as well as the fun names that I find. If they're inbred, I consider that to be just a part of their character. And I'm waiting for the day I accidentally pick up a distant Thuwed or Dorkface off of the AP smile.gif

 

I usually don't breed those dragons unless I'm going to keep them for myself, though. I may love my dragons, but I don't want to clog the AP with common eggs that others might not want. And I've gotten CB mates for my Christmas dragons because I want everyone to be happy if they pick one up, not just the people who don't care about lineages. I understand that not everyone plays the game like I do, and I want to make sure that I keep the Christmas spirit by not shoving my breeding ideas down everyone else's throats.

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The thing is, someone who didn't have a metallic yet, doesn't care about lineages, and can't get one from the cave because their computer is too slow might have been overjoyed to recieve that messy lineaged inbred one that other palyers might not want.

 

In case you aren't aware, that's probably what Gwenhyffar was trying to say to you, and anyone else who kills 'messy-lineaged' or inbred rares. You are denying a player a chance to have that rare when it's unlikely they'd get a rare any other way.

Yup, and I just did a little experiment. I bred one shortlined purebred common, one common from CB parents and one messy, long lineaged common.

 

Released all three. The first two are still sitting in the AP, at least 6 minutes after release. The last was picked up immediately and is snuggly sitting on someones scroll.

 

Oh how people love the short-lined purebred ones and hate the messy lineaged ones! NOT!

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Yup, and I just did a little experiment. I bred one shortlined purebred common, one common from CB parents and one messy, long lineaged common.

 

Released all three. The first two are still sitting in the AP, at least 6 minutes after release. The last was picked up immediately and is snuggly sitting on someones scroll.

 

Oh how people love the short-lined purebred ones and hate the messy lineaged ones! NOT!

I really can't help it if people continue to willfully miss my point, but I'm glad you enjoy the game. That's something we all have in common.

Edited by Goslander

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I really can't help it if people continue to willfully miss my point, but I'm glad you enjoy the game. That's something we all have in common.

Your point is that if it's not to your liking, you'll make sure no one else gets it either.

 

No matter what your "ideal" is, by playing it as you are, you are depriving other people from what they can catch off the AP, because you have some idea that your ONE kill once in a while will actually make any difference whatsoever to the statistics.

 

Dragon Cave runs on huge numbers. That one egg that you kill is not going to make more "clean" rares come out for you to catch. It's going to statistically simply make the way for more "messy" rares to come out.

 

And in the mean time you've made sure that just because you don't like the way some people play, they can't have what you don't want.

Edited by Gwenhyffar

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