Cave Blockers: Mossy Egg

[Dolphinsong]

There is no actual 'mossy' dragon, just an added description to the dragons it effects. Its like putting birthmarks onto something.

 

And the moss is only sprited onto the eggs, as an overlay much like the cracking system

Edited August 30, 2011 by Dolphinsong

[DarkEternity]

That's a bit of a shame. When I find MSA dragons that are not on cooldown, I don't want to search through my entire scroll looking for the right dragon...

 

Also, sprites are a major incentive for collecting dragons in the first place :/

[IsmaielDeath]

That's a bit of a shame. When I find MSA dragons that are not on cooldown, I don't want to search through my entire scroll looking for the right dragon...

 

Also, sprites are a major incentive for collecting dragons in the first place :/

While some indicator for useable BSA/MSA ect. would be useful, making sprites for all dragons is too much work. And if the mossy egg would hatch to the same 'mossy dragons' we'd only have masses of mossy dragons. While the 'mossy dragon'-idea may sound cool at first I don't want to have 3 or 4 scrollpages with the same dragon. But I would like to have 3-4 pages of common dragons with MSA as long they don't look all the same.

 

While sprites ARE a major incentive for collecting dragons I think it only applys to common and non BSA dragons.

Many people collect dragons only for their BSA or because they are rare.

Example:

I wasn't here when the blacks were still common and (maybe) caveblockers.

But I know many people who didn't grab a few of them back then because the were so common. Now they are overbred and many people only search for them because they are rare now.

Also: Many people dont really love the sprite of the Reds/Magi/whatever, but they keep collecting them (en masse) because they are useful.

 

And the same would apply to mossy eggs. While they still have the same sprite as the normal blockers they have the chance to become useful and so many would collect them.

[~!~]

I get that making mossy adults would be too much work, which is why I suggested sparkles instead. There could just be a 100x100 overlay that's put right on top of every sprite, and it would look pretty much fine.

 

I also think fairy magic makes more sense for giving dragons cool new powers than moss on the egg, anyway...

[AlternateMew]

 

My random shot at a mossy egg...bright and colorful moss.

I really like that. A lot. So pretty! <*-*>

 

As for the need to search through your scroll for one not on cooldown, there are 2 solutions I see to that:

 

1. Off-site MSA tracker. I'm sure one would pop up.

2. Perhaps the "sparkles", or whatever potential overlay the adults may get could disappear from the ones on cooldown, then return once they can use the MSA again?

[Painter]

I get that making mossy adults would be too much work, which is why I suggested sparkles instead. There could just be a 100x100 overlay that's put right on top of every sprite, and it would look pretty much fine.

 

I also think fairy magic makes more sense for giving dragons cool new powers than moss on the egg, anyway...

~!~ I think most people want moss because it's a little more elegant than sparkles, and the concept really makes sense. Time passes so moss grows. Why would faeries come to sparkle/magic the eggs just because they've been sitting there for a while? x3

 

And it's not that the moss gives them a cool new ability, it's that the moss hinders their development so they're more lethargic/weak/less temperamental. :b

 

--

 

Also, Wookie that moss is gorgeous <3!

 

And I don't see why we couldn't have a little thing like teleport has. Just a link for Moss, instead, since it'll be available in more than one breed. :3 So no one has to struggle to keep track.~

 

And if you really want to talk about mossing adult sprites, why couldn't a hatchling/adult dragon just rub the moss off? (Though it'd be pretty cool if it were parasitic ;3). But really, small descriptions like the sickness would make the most sense.

 

I'd also feel like my collection was incomplete, since I would never have a gold sprite with moss on it, or even things like mossy reds or vines. And of the ones I could have, I would want a f/m/ungendered hatchling for every available moss sprite, and an adult female and male. My collection (and others') would never be complete!

[Quinney]

I really like that. A lot. So pretty!

 

I agree - lovely!

[Princess Artemis]

As for adding anything to hatchie or adult sprites, I think no. What is so nice about this idea is its elegance. On the eggs it only takes an overlay which the system already has in place and requires no permission from zillions of artists to implement. On the hatchies and adults it tacks on a short line describing them as somewhat more laid-back than their non-mossy kin, which is entirely in keeping with natural variations in temperament so would present no issue with the creators of the dragons. After all, Storm dragons are hot-headed, but not all Storm dragons are equally hot-headed. A mossy Storm would be a little less hot-headed.

 

This idea slips into the existing system with little fuss and fits as if it were always there, we just hadn't discovered it yet. That's a mark of a really good idea.

[AlternateMew]

Couldn't have said that better myself.

 

I also agree on what Painter said - since some breeds would never sit long enough to become mossy, it would make it feel like something is missing from your collection, no matter how hard you work. Because a gold sitting on the front page for 5 minutes sans anyone taking it would be absolutely insane.

[Fengari]

I like this idea a lot. It is a creative try for a solution to the biome-blocking problem, and it could also be a good solution to the problem of certain BSA's that get suggested and liked, but don't seem to fit any specific dragon breed very well (or those that do, but are not liked by that breed's creator).

 

I chose for lichen, mainly because there's lichen of a lot of different colors, wheras moss tends to be all green. The egg overlay could have a few different colors of lichen in it, thus showing up nicely on eggs of all colors (maybe I'll try an overlay later).

 

To adress the problem of the descriptions not fitting certain breeds: I don't see why the affected (and non-affected) dragons need to be slower, more patient or less active than those that had no lichen on their egg. It serves no purpose except to make them different from others.

So I would suggest a text that says something about them having extra powers instead of them having different characteristics.

Personally I think the dragons eat their eggshells when they hatch (there's plenty of creatures that eat the eggs they came from when hatched, to have their first nutrients), it explains why they dissappear for hatched eggs and not for killed eggs. So I would suggest something like:

for hatchlings: This hatchling seems to be developing powers the others of its breed don't have. Could that have something to do with the lichen that were on its egg?

for adults: Because it ate the (insert cool name for magical) lichen that was on its egg, this dragon has developed powers other dragons of its breed don't have.

 

I agree there should be an easy way to see which dragons have the LSA, a seperate page like with teleport would be ideal I think.

 

No lichen on hatchlings or adults for simple practical reasons as said before, and because there's absolutely no good reason why the dragon in the egg would overgrow with lichen.

[Amur_Rama]

I get that making mossy adults would be too much work, which is why I suggested sparkles instead.  There could just be a 100x100 overlay that's put right on top of every sprite, and it would look pretty much fine.

 

I also think fairy magic makes more sense for giving dragons cool new powers than moss on the egg, anyway...

But the bigger problem would be that fairies are illogical by DC standards, therefore DC doesn't have fairies. (And if we did, are they seelie or unseelie court faries?)

 

So no fairies, no fairy dust. Moss/lichen is a heck of a lot more reasonable.

 

Hey, could we use mistletoe? Now that I'm thinking of it, mistletoe is an obligate hemiparasitic plant (meaning it can photosynthesize a little bit, but still has to draw minerals and other nutrients from the host), unlike moss and lichen. Mistletoe also comes with a fair number of leaf patterns and red or white berries, so two or three overlays could be made so that it shows up on any kind of egg.

 

Perhaps a light-green/silver-gray and red-berried overlay on green eggs, and a dark-green/mistletoe-in-winter-yellow with white berries overlay on other eggs. Whichever the contrast works best for.

 

EDIT: Mistletoe is spread by a pygmy dragon bird's droppings landing on a branch and providing initial fertilizer while the roots grow in. Easy to picture that happening in the DC-time month an egg is sitting off to the side of the pile, undisturbed.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Amut un Rama

[IsmaielDeath]

But the bigger problem would be that fairies are illogical by DC standards, therefore DC doesn't have fairies. (And if we did, are they seelie or unseelie court faries?)

 

So no fairies, no fairy dust. Moss/lichen is a heck of a lot more reasonable.

 

Hey, could we use mistletoe? Now that I'm thinking of it, mistletoe is an obligate hemiparasitic plant (meaning it can photosynthesize a little bit, but still has to draw minerals and other nutrients from the host), unlike moss and lichen. Mistletoe also comes with a fair number of leaf patterns and red or white berries, so two or three overlays could be made so that it shows up on any kind of egg.

 

Perhaps a light-green/silver-gray and red-berried overlay on green eggs, and a dark-green/mistletoe-in-winter-yellow with white berries overlay on other eggs. Whichever the contrast works best for.

 

EDIT: Mistletoe is spread by a pygmy dragon bird's droppings landing on a branch and providing initial fertilizer while the roots grow in. Easy to picture that happening in the DC-time month an egg is sitting off to the side of the pile, undisturbed.

Uh.. I don't think Mistle is a good idea. Its parasitic as you said. It would need to get its roots into the egg to survive, which most likely would kill the egg. If the egg would survive the shelldamage the mistletoe would suck up the fluids inside the egg and THAT would kill the dragon inside 100%.

[Amur_Rama]

Uh.. I don't think Mistle is a good idea. Its parasitic as you said. It would need to get its roots into the egg to survive, which most likely would kill the egg. If the egg would survive the shelldamage the mistletoe would suck up the fluids inside the egg and THAT would kill the dragon inside 100%.

*sighs* Can't you do a basic wikipedia search before you say something silly like that?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistletoe

 

The genus Arceuthobium (dwarf mistletoe; Santalaceae) has reduced photosynthesis; as an adult, it manufactures only a small proportion of the sugars it needs from its own photosythesis but as a seedling it actively photosynthesizes until a connection to the host is established.

 

And as far as it goes, it's a hemiparasite and a DC dragon-egg-specific one at that, so it'd be easy to say that it would have little use for any albumin there anyway. For game logic it'd likely craving the calcium and other minerals in the shell, and a secure niche to grow, like any host-specific epiphyte/parasite, and most plants are technically parasites or commensals anyway, when you look at the fungal mats that sustain their roots.

 

And just how fast do you think a seedling can "suck up" fluids anyway, it's not a siphon or a straw, it's not going to empty out an egg. Shells aren't watertight to begin with, especially not reptile shells, they do absorb some moisture from the air and their substrate (ask anyone who breeds them in real life) so the miniscule amount a mistletoe seedling leeches out through the pores to sustain itself before a scrollkeeper spots and grabs it would easily be replaced by external humidity long before the egg itself was harmed.

 

Besides, dragons are already developed in the egg, fully formed, there's hardly any juice in there anyway.

[IsmaielDeath]

They crack not very reptilian like. The shells seem thick and hard - not like the shell of a snake or turtle egg.

Of course a mistletoe is not sucking up water like a vacuum. But a mistletoe can kill a tree it lives on (at lieast if there are to much of them) and so it could kill an egg.

A every plant sucks as much water as it emits while photosynthesising. I would have to ask someone that has measured values on that. But over the years it would be some hundreds liters which is maybe too much for an egg. Especially if you consider that only mineralless water can permeate the shell(even mor so with those thick eggshels they have).

Also every harm done to the shell (even if it is too small to see) is a invitation to viruses and bacteria.

 

If it drains calcium out of the shell the shell would become soft. A soft shell seems to be a deadly threat for the hatchlings in the egg (no matter how mature they are). It is at least the same as the softshell-disease that can kill a egg.

 

 

I don't have any obligations to use Mistletoes if all others want this. Its DC and magic will make this work (as it would with lichens, mosses and farries). I respect you and your idea and didn't want in any way to assault your idea.

So please don't say any objections I had are just plain stupid only because I have another state of knowledge than you.

 

P.s.: Wikipedia isn't a reliable resource to me. So I don't use it much. But its great for getting the idea how it works in general and a good resource for pictures.

[Princess Artemis]

I don't think mistletoe would be a good idea either. It does harm its host, even if it's not as badly as a true parasite does. Moss or lichen would have no dangerous effect but could still have some effect on an egg, hence MSAs not being guarantees.

[Fuzzbucket]

*sighs* Can't you do a basic wikipedia search before you say something silly like that?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistletoe

 

The genus Arceuthobium (dwarf mistletoe; Santalaceae) has reduced photosynthesis; as an adult, it manufactures only a small proportion of the sugars it needs from its own photosythesis but as a seedling it actively photosynthesizes until a connection to the host is established.

 

And as far as it goes, it's a hemiparasite and a DC dragon-egg-specific one at that, so it'd be easy to say that it would have little use for any albumin there anyway. For game logic it'd likely craving the calcium and other minerals in the shell, and a secure niche to grow, like any host-specific epiphyte/parasite, and most plants are technically parasites or commensals anyway, when you look at the fungal mats that sustain their roots.

 

And just how fast do you think a seedling can "suck up" fluids anyway, it's not a siphon or a straw, it's not going to empty out an egg. Shells aren't watertight to begin with, especially not reptile shells, they do absorb some moisture from the air and their substrate (ask anyone who breeds them in real life) so the miniscule amount a mistletoe seedling leeches out through the pores to sustain itself before a scrollkeeper spots and grabs it would easily be replaced by external humidity long before the egg itself was harmed.

 

Besides, dragons are already developed in the egg, fully formed, there's hardly any juice in there anyway.

Only SOME forms of mistletoe fit what you say:

The genus Arceuthobium (dwarf mistletoe; Santalaceae) has reduced photosynthesis; as an adult, it manufactures only a small proportion of the sugars it needs from its own photosythesis but as a seedling it actively photosynthesizes until a connection to the host is established.

 

Before you get to that bit, the very article you cite says

Mistletoe plants grow on a wide range of host trees, and commonly reduce their growth but can kill them with heavy infestation.

 

And as IsmaielDeath says - wikipedia is HIGHLY UNRELIABLE as a source of genuine information. I frequently edit bad information in there myself, which says rather a lot !

 

Moss works.

 

[Valkiepoo]

I've been bad about getting the update done. Crazy week. Sorry folks, but thank you for keeping this thread going and for continuing to contribute art and ideas! I was worried about the reaction to this idea, but I'm very happy to see that it's been just about overwhelmingly positive towards the idea (if not necessarily the details).

 

Just some notes while I'm capable of making notes.

 

I don't know about mistletoe. The holiday connotation at least in the US is pretty strong, which makes me disinclined to use it as a year-round mechanism. Might be neat if the moss worked like the leetle trees.. around the holidays, it turns into mistletoe.. But that's just getting more complicated, and I'll chalk that up to a followup suggestion if the general suggestion is approved.

 

Now I DO very much like the idea of different varieties of overlay for different breeds of egg. I think this would solve a lot of the visibility issue on green eggs. While moss doesn't have the widest range across the color wheel, there is a large amount of variation. However, I don't know how viable that is either. Theoretically it should be a simple "if x then y" type of situation, but I'm no coder.

[Fengari]

I don't know about mistletoe. The holiday connotation at least in the US is pretty strong, which makes me disinclined to use it as a year-round mechanism.

I agree.

 

Now I DO very much like the idea of different varieties of overlay for different breeds of egg. ... However, I don't know how viable that is either. Theoretically it should be a simple "if x then y" type of situation, but I'm no coder.

I'm also no coder but I think something like that may already be in place for the cracking sequences? After all, not all egg sprites have the same dimensions so I think the cracking overlays for different breeds are different as well.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Fengari

[libby2999]

I love it! although I think the only BSA could be somthing to get a badge, then its good but not like people will start raising mossyness eggs just to do that. I mean, it is good, but still..Think we just need a badge BSA.

[Amur_Rama]

...it's a hemiparasite and a DC dragon-egg-specific one at that, so it'd be easy to say that it would have little use for any albumin there anyway.

Missed that part, eh?

 

Maybe I've just playing with Spec too much (or for too long). This is a completely fabricated ecosystem, with an oversized number of large apex predators, and that's obviously fine. So I'm not really understanding why you're taking the mistletoe idea as wholecloth, when it's obviously just being used as an analogue for something that doesn't exist (yet, hopefully)*. Or does someone know of a mistletoe species that parasitises the eggs of multi-ton flying omnivores on HomeEarth?

 

*How about I go back up there and replace every mention of "mistletoe" with "Isylia passweed" or "dragon's claws", would that undo how stuck folks are on a coincidental assortment of letters? I still don't see a problem with the idea, as neither moss nor lichen have any particular reason to grow on eggs, nor had a real carrier to explain how it gets there between biomes. (I don't recall seeing much moss or lichen in a hot desert or volcanic fields, has anyone?)

[Banuk]

I love it! although I think the only BSA could be somthing to get a badge, then its good but not like people will start raising mossyness eggs just to do that. I mean, it is good, but still..Think we just need a badge BSA.

Just raising mossy eggs to get a badge pretty much defeats the entire purpose of this suggestion. The idea is to get people to take mossy blockers in the hopes that they'll have a unique skill when they grow up.

[~!~]

Missed that part, eh?

 

Maybe I've just playing with Spec too much (or for too long). This is a completely fabricated ecosystem, with an oversized number of large apex predators, and that's obviously fine. So I'm not really understanding why you're taking the mistletoe idea as wholecloth, when it's obviously just being used as an analogue for something that doesn't exist (yet, hopefully)*. Or does someone know of a mistletoe species that parasitises the eggs of multi-ton flying omnivores on HomeEarth?

 

*How about I go back up there and replace every mention of "mistletoe" with "Isylia passweed" or "dragon's claws", would that undo how stuck folks are on a coincidental assortment of letters? I still don't see a problem with the idea, as neither moss nor lichen have any particular reason to grow on eggs, nor had a real carrier to explain how it gets there between biomes. (I don't recall seeing much moss or lichen in a hot desert or volcanic fields, has anyone?)

Inventing a parasitic plant is logical, but inventing fairies isn't? Especially since DC is quite obviously fantasy and not science fiction...

[Valkiepoo]

Easy now everyone. Let's all put our harumphs aside for a minute here.

 

Amut un Rama, your posts seem to go from "how about mistletoe" to "I didn't really mean mistletoe" to "harumph well you're all dumb then, haha" - a tone which I realize could simply be the lack of any context from vocal inflection. However, in case you didn't realize how it could sound to others, please be aware that some parts of your posts did come across as derogatory and rather rude. I do appreciate your feedback and research, and I'm glad that you feel the concept itself is worthwhile even if we disagree on details.

 

~!~, I understand you feel strongly about sparkles but I don't think we're going to get anywhere with that idea. The point about collectors being unable to collect every sparkly sprite alone would raise a grand hullabaloo, and if we reduced it to just eggs we would still have to juggle the red-hot stones of disregard from the faery-loving communities that would all have their own say about it. As mentioned, seelie or unseelie. What about place of origin? If we just made it up (heaven forbid lol), I could foresee that community being quite upset about that.

 

Edit to add ~

Honestly I don't know how an "effect" would be chosen, but I'd rather just lay down the groundwork and let TJ choose what he feels fits best in the cave. I'm trying to keep everything as simple and elegant as possible, where we can hopefully add suggestions and improvements later if it's adopted as an officially viable idea.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Valkiepoo

[Shanthaia]

I have been following this topic on a daily basis - I find the idea intrguing to help with the cave blocker probelm. I know I for sure would pick up such eggs in the hopes for L/MSA.

I voted for lichen for the simple reason to be able to explain why they grow on hot eggs (so not works for moss or holly - and as was just established, inventing plants is maybe not the best solution), further lichen have a larger colour varatiy and thus it would be easier to make visible overlays for each egg type.

I also like the idea that the lichen growth messes with the temperature of the egg and thus results in the different abilities of the dragon. I can't imagine that eating the egg shell with lichen does the change, because what would prvent another hatchy in the to lick the lichen off such an egg?

Edited September 1, 2011 by Shanthaia

[Fiona]

(I don't recall seeing much moss or lichen in a hot desert or volcanic fields, has anyone?)

I just want to address this, which could be seen as a legitimate question. Now, I haven't researched moss as much to see how widespread the environments it grows in, but I have been researching lichens. I could quote from some of the sources, but instead I'll just sum up.

 

Lichen are found in almost all natural environments except the deep sea, and in a wide variety of climatic conditions. Varieties are able to grow on rocky, salty coasts, in sub-zero conditions in Antarctica, and in the deserts of Utah. They are also found on the rocky slopes of recent volcanic eruptions. No, I don't think they grow inside hot volcanoes. But the volcano biome isn't just the boiling magma pits. It also is the rocky slopes of the cones. Lichen are effective colonizers, because they have no root system, and are able to flourish in nutrient deficient environments.

 

An interesting note regarding moss though -- it seems to grow in a "microbiotic crust" with lichen in some places, such as that Utah desert. It seems to me the people of the dc world wouldn't be scientific enough to separate the moss and the lichen into different plant species, but would see the mat of growth and call it one thing. I think lichen is probably the plant most likely to grow on eggs, but it would also make sense for the people to call it moss, mistakenly.