Valkiepoo

Cave Blockers: Mossy Egg

373 posts in this topic

Updates:

Scrapping Scavenge: Let's not step on toes and let that debate take care of itself in the pre-existing BSA thread(s).

Introduction:

Many suggestions have been made to increase the appeal of cave blockers, or to move cave blockers through faster. Unfortunately most of these either drastically alter gameplay, give unfair advantages, or only take into consideration a few specific breeds when cave blockers do tend to change over time. All have at least some promise, and I'm throwing my idea in the midst of it for critiques, tweaks, ideas, etc. Even if my idea isn't workable, maybe it'll help inspire other avenues of thought biggrin.gif

 

This suggestions operates off of several different factors that we don't really think about that much, regarding time.

  • Time in the cave moves differently than time in our world - allowing us to raise and hatch dragons in less than a week.
  • 2-3ish days = 2 years for dragons (based on Once they hit adolescence, hatchlings change quickly, maturing to their full forms in only 2 years.)
  • Hence, 5 minutes would be roughly 30 days (I think.. math wasn't my strong point).
Enter the Mossy Eggs:

What is a mossy egg?

A Mossy Egg is an egg that sits in a biome for a long period of time.

 

What determines the length of time?

This was brought up as a discussion point for this suggestion. The original suggestion was for 5 minutes, as that roughly equals 30 days. The concern was voiced that this is too much time to effectively move the biomes along - however, I want to counter this argument by stating that moving eggs out of the biomes is only half of the purpose. The other half is to give incentive to actually raise eggs that are currently "unwanted" which will hopefully help even out ratios. That being said, I'm not opposed to changing the time, but I do not think it should go too much lower. Five minutes is much better than the 15 minutes I have seen in some biomes happy.gif

 

What does a Mossy Egg look like?

Mossy eggs would gain a green ? ! instead of a red ? to indicate they have grown moss. A valid concern has been raised regarding color-blindness - ? changed to !

Provided the idea is acceptable and code-able, moss/lichen eggs would also have an overlay. A few possible submissions have been comped.

Fiona Bluefire

user posted image

user posted image

 

Painter

user posted imageuser posted image

Volunteers for alternative versions are welcome, of course! More options and ideas are a good thing and can help further the creative brainflow even more. smile.gif

 

PieMaster

user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

 

Amut un Rama

user posted imageuser posted image

 

Renorei

user posted imageuser posted image

 

ixupi

user posted imageuser posted image

user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted imageuser posted imageuser posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

 

Anquatic

user posted image

 

 

 

How Moss Affects Eggs:

70% No effect - the dragon hatches normally

30% Gains new sub-description (sprite remains the same) and adult MSA (moss-specific action)

Percentages under discussion: Need to determine percentage that will not adversely affect cave balance due to influx of non-breed specific action

 

MSA options - I scrounged some of the bsa options under discussion that might potentially fit.

Naptime: <dragon> lets out a massive yawn that is immediately contagious. The hatchlings all seem affected and drop off to sleep. (auto-fogs all hatchlings, cooldown: 2 weeks)

Disenchanting: <dragon> gazes adoringly at <other dragon>. Their previous mate seems much more appealing now... (reduce breed time by 1 day for last successful mate. Only affects one mate of pair. cooldown: 1 month)

For purposes of keeping mossy dragons in demand, I propose randomizing the MSA. MSA's could either follow a ratio or have a set % chance. Thoughts?

 

Sub-Descriptions:

Egg:

The shell of this egg is covered with a thin layer of moss. It doesn't seem to hurt the egg, but hopefully the dragon inside is unharmed.

This description would be on all Mossy Eggs.

 

Hatchling:

This hatchling spends most of its time watching other dragons. It seems very patient, but you can't tell what it might be waiting for.

This hatchling is not quite as active as the others of its species. It seems more patient, but you can't tell what it might be waiting for.

This description would appear on all Affected Hatchlings (currently 30%)

 

Adult:

Moss leeched nutrients from this dragon's egg, and its metabolism is slower than normal. It tends to be more subdued than others of its species and more prone to laziness.

Moss blocked sunlight and warmth from this dragon when it was still in its egg, and it seems to have developed differently as a result. It tends to be more subdued and thoughtful than others of its species and more prone to laziness.

 

Many people have expressed interest in the hatchling and/or adult sprites being affected. I don't think this is practical or realistic. Turning it into a new breed defeats half of the goal - raising cave blockers and altering the ratios as a result. Respriting existing dragons? Well, we would need permissions and I'm certain many artists are no longer with us and there are a LOT of dragons now..

 

Signatures/Support Banners

I like my own idea enough that I'm going to put it in my signature. However, my own talents aren't super, so this is what I came up with. Other banners/userbars/signatures are welcome!

 

Valkie's Signature:

[img=http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee440/omgvalk/eggs01.gif]

user posted image

 

Anquatic's Banner:

[IMG=http://i40.tinypic.com/28ti5cm.png]

user posted image

 

 

This is still a pretty rough idea

I just wanted to throw an idea out there that's a little off the beaten track as far as what has been discussed thus far. Additions, changes, ideas, and critique are all welcome.

 

ETA: And I realize this would probably be a nightmare to implement, from TJ's side of things. sad.gif

 

 

Potential Issues and Resolutions

  • ZOMG how do I know what dragons have the MSA?!?

    Unlike BSAs, this would affect multiple species. So how would we tell which dragons were affected without having absolutely marvelous memories or messing with our scroll sorting? Couple of ideas:

    • Teleport-like page, as has been suggested for BSAs.
    • Symbol added to the Adult (M/F) field, similar to how the * was added for frozen.
  • Valk, those "MSAs" (so-called) all suck and this idea won't work.

    As mentioned, this is just an idea. I'd be just as happy if someone else took the frame, ran with it, and came up with something different and brilliant and amazing. Suggestions for alternative MSAs are welcome. Suggestions for different functionality, also welcome. Brainstorming, spitballing, etc, all welcome. smile.gif

  • I turn off images for hunting/I rely on text readers, so I'd never see the egg. What about me?

    Again, there are several possible resolutions to this.

    • Add "And it's mossy!" to the text description - my concern about this is that some descriptions are already fairly long (granted, most of them aren't currently blockers, but they could be someday, theoretically).
    • A related suggestion: Adding "mossy" somewhere in the descriptive text. Examples: This mossy egg is sitting in a pile of small pebbles. You can see the baby dragon curled up inside this mossy, translucent egg.
    • Change the link color - this could be accomplished with css coding, I think. However, to address another issue, perhaps not green...
  • I'm color-blind and can't tell the difference between the red ? and green ? - what about me?

    Okay, valid concern. I think someone mentioned changing it to a green exclamation point, which I think would be the most elegant solution. Totally open to any other ideas.

Edited by Valkiepoo

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I really like this idea. I would definitely catch dragons that have MSAs, regardless the breed. However, I think there should be a higher chance of the dragon getting an MSA. I'd like a 60% chance of getting an MSA from a moss-covered egg. Although, I think there should be visible moss on the egg (It would be an overlay; we wouldn't need a new sprite for every existing egg). Also, I think there should be some sort of indicator in-cave that shows the egg has moss, like a green question mark instead of a red one.

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I'm not sure if this idea would help moving biomes if the egg has to sit five minutes to gain moss status. After all, we'd want to move the biomes faster. Wouldn't this fit better on AP eggs?

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I like the idea, but I think the logic behind it needs work. Perhaps, instead of moss growing on the egg, it is found by some mischevious... um... fairies? Who, like, enchant it? (Perhaps there could be a "sparkles" overlay on the sprite? For those of us who like pretty pictures.)

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I think this is an interesting idea. I also agree with PieMaster, there should be some moss on the egg sprite. As well as the green question mark. Maybe the hatchling could have a mossy paw or tail if It had the moss as an egg. The adult would have the same.

 

But logic doesn't really make sense in this idea. How would any egg grow moss? Can someone explain this to me? I'm just a little confused on this. xd.png

 

Otherwise I like it!

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But logic doesn't really make sense in this idea. How would any egg grow moss? Can someone explain this to me? I'm just a little confused on this. xd.png

I mean... the same way a rock grows moss? The moss just sort of comes over and... grows. And since as the OP said, time irl and time in DCworld are two different times.

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Could moss actually draw nutrients through an egg's shell, though? Or would it be a case of the moss blocking sunlight and whatever, which screws with the egg's temperature and alters development?

 

I like the concept, but the logic behind it isn't quite solid yet.

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Could moss actually draw nutrients through an egg's shell, though? Or would it be a case of the moss blocking sunlight and whatever, which screws with the egg's temperature and alters development?

You saying that. Wouldn't it end up like a neglected? You're right, the moss would cover up the shell, making the egg colder. Maybe it could turn those commons no one wants into a cool Mossy dragon!

 

(I'm letting my mind run wild!)

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This is a very entertaining idea. I like the random MSAs. The chance to remove a dead egg shell off your scroll is very appealing to a lot of people.

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I love this idea. But I do have a concern however, sometimes the mossy hatchling description will be in direct conflict with the regular description, and it will be a strange juxtaposition. Like with the whiptails maybe.

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You saying that. Wouldn't it end up like a neglected? You're right, the moss would cover up the shell, making the egg colder. Maybe it could turn those commons no one wants into a cool Mossy dragon!

 

(I'm letting my mind run wild!)

This fails to solve the problem, though, because if, say, Whiptails, are turned into Mossy dragons, it makes even fewer Whiptails, causing them to become more underpopulated than they are, and causing the cave to make even more of them.

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Well, if the moss stole some of the warmth from the egg, maybe the egg would just require more views to hatch? You'd just need to heat it up a bit more, that's all.

 

This is a very interesting idea! Some kinks would need to be worked out, but it would certainly be a creative way of fixing the blocking problem. ^^

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This fails to solve the problem, though, because if, say, Whiptails, are turned into Mossy dragons, it makes even fewer Whiptails, causing them to become more underpopulated than they are, and causing the cave to make even more of them.

The dragon's breed would not be changed. A whiptail egg which grew moss would still be a whiptail egg, and the sprites for the eggs, hatchlings, and adults would not change. What would change is that that individual dragon would have a more patient, thoughtful, pensive disposition and it would have a random MSA.

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The dragon's breed would not be changed. A whiptail egg which grew moss would still be a whiptail egg, and the sprites for the eggs, hatchlings, and adults would not change. What would change is that that individual dragon would have a more patient, thoughtful, pensive disposition and it would have a random MSA.

Oh, I thought that was what Floral was saying in the post I quoted. If the egg does stay the same breed, it can't mess up anything, so long as the site doesn't know the difference.

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I'm not sure if this idea would help moving biomes if the egg has to sit five minutes to gain moss status. After all, we'd want to move the biomes faster. Wouldn't this fit better on AP eggs?

I think the idea's more for those ultra-common eggs that have been sitting there for ten minutes with nobody taking them. Even the people who normally don't pay much attention to commons might grab some of them because a possible MSA would make them more desirable. The biomes that move fast enough wouldn't have any mossy eggs, and that's okay, since the eggs are actually being taken rather than sitting there forever. If they're already moving too fast for it, it's not as if every single person's going to sit and wait for all the eggs to grow moss; the eggs will still be grabbed.

 

I personally like this idea; it's a good suggestion to help the cave move along faster. I suppose the only downside is that people might abandon eggs that don't end up having the extra description or something. Maybe have the description appear on all "Mossy" eggs? And then the MSA appears only once it's full grown, of course, so then they can keep it on their scroll or release to the wild or whatever.

 

I also second the green question mark idea.

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I could go for this too. It's definitely rough right now and I'd like to hear more ideas/possibilities, but I'm interested.

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I think the idea's more for those ultra-common eggs that have been sitting there for ten minutes with nobody taking them. Even the people who normally don't pay much attention to commons might grab some of them because a possible MSA would make them more desirable. The biomes that move fast enough wouldn't have any mossy eggs, and that's okay, since the eggs are actually being taken rather than sitting there forever. If they're already moving too fast for it, it's not as if every single person's going to sit and wait for all the eggs to grow moss; the eggs will still be grabbed.

Ah, okay. But then I also think it'd be better if the moss status is noticeable even in the cave,so that people would not have to take a risk for the 5-hour-lock if the egg sat there lees then five minutes.

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Great feedback everyone! Thank you all!

 

I'll go back and make some tweaks and edits, but there are a few points I would like some additional discussion about.

 

Regarding Success Rate

The BSA breeds have the ratio to keep their numbers in check and thus keep the breeds very desirable. However, if we increase the MSA success rate, we would need to make sure there are precautionary measures in place to ensure that it will always be in demand (increased cooldown time, exceedingly useful, etc) since ANY breed can become an MSA if left sitting in a biome.

 

Regarding AP vs biomes

In all honesty, the AP doesn't need this. It clogs sometimes, but it's not nearly as bad as it used to be and most of the time it's actually clear. If the time is the issue, that can be tweaked, but there does need to be a balance between just wanting to take the censorkip.gif egg to make the biome move and intentionally letting the egg sit to turn into a mossy egg. If it's too short, MSA's are no longer desirable, and we're back to the same problem again.

 

Regarding ? Color

I'm leaning towards this, but one point I would like to bring up for discussion is that if there is no clear indicator, then it's more likely that a higher percentage would be nabbed before the timer rolls over. This would be better for the preservation of MSA rarity. However, the visible indicator would also be a great advantage in spreading knowledge to those that do not visit the forums and would have no reason to grab an egg sitting on the page (my main reason for being in favor of the color change on the ? - many never set foot in the forums, so this would prevent creating an imbalance in gameplay among members).

 

Regarding Shiny Sparkly Faerydust

Something very similar to this was actually my first idea, but I discarded it as being illogical xd.png We have dragons but as far as I'm aware, no reference to any other non-naturally occurring creatures. I would love to hear more suggestions, though, especially if it comes with a kewl MSA attached.

 

Leeching the Nutrient Goodness

So with a little research (woo!), Moss does not actually leech nutrients from their anchor: Mosses do not absorb water or nutrients from their substrate through their roots, so while mosses often grow on trees, they are never parasitic on the tree. So in the interests of logic, I'll revise this in the opening post as well.

 

Description Conflicts

That's a concern I had as well, but the mossy descriptor can be modified and changed. I'll include an alteration when I update the main post.

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Um why is there a CensorKip in your post. Ah well...

 

Maybe if a user picks up a mossy egg, the sprite would look something like this:

user posted image

 

But the moss would be different on every type of egg.

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Um why is there a CensorKip in your post. Ah well...

 

Maybe if a user picks up a mossy egg, the sprite would look something like this:

user posted image

 

But the moss would be different on every type of egg.

I didn't actually swear, just used the emote to express how I feel about having to pick up an egg I don't necessarily want just to get things moving again. I have done this, but I've never been happy about it, and it usually just brings another blocker on the screen. Which makes me spout more censorkips xd.png

 

Regarding being different on every egg - I'm not sure how feasible that is. There is a large number of eggs, and creating different moss sprites for each in addition to the coding to ensure each moss lines up with its egg sounds like it might make this a more improbable project. It might be feasible to have 3-4 different overlays, but I'm not a coder and not sure how easy/hard that would be.

Edited by Valkiepoo

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Instead of a different moss overlay for each egg, there should be a different one for each biome. For each egg, there would be WAY too many new egg sprites xd.png

 

About the moss on the hatchlings/adults: I think this would cause to many problems. Not only would we need the permission of each artist who helped on any of the dragons (Many of which are inactive), it would take too long for each of the dragons to get their own moss made.

 

Description Conflicts: If the Moss description conflicting with hatchling descriptions is a reason for not having Moss, one could argue the same about hatchling sickness's description.

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Instead of a different moss overlay for each egg, there should be a different one for each biome. For each egg, there would be WAY too many new egg sprites xd.png

Why not just one overlay for all eggs (smaller for pygmies, of course)? I don't think eggs hold on to which biome they were caught in.

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This is a cute idea. Maybe just change the black egg with a question mark sprite to sitting on some green, or having some green hanging off it. But once you get the egg, it would just be like before right?

 

edit: and if there was moss on the actual sprite of the actual egg (not the black questionmarked one) that would cause problems

Edited by dragcave:D

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