Comment Required When Rejecting a Description

[kaiachan]

Using the search engine, I did not find any threads, which are based on the topic I would like to talk about. If I just did not look carefully enough, then I am sorry.

 

I have a request regarding the description feedback. Would it be possible that rejecting a description works only when a comment has been written?

 

I do not know about other members, but I am sure they are also putting a lot of efforts in them. For me, I try to describe my dragons, suiting their type and name. It takes some time and research for me to do so. Getting a "reject" without a comment upsets me a little bit, considering the work I do.

It is not that I mind if people reject my descriptions or simply say that they do not like them. However, I really would like to know the reasons for rejecting or not liking them. If I just get a "Reject" without explanation, I am unable to correct my descriptions. In addition to that, it gives me the feeling that they have not bothered to read it at all and just felt like rejecting it.

 

If I get an "Accept" or "Abstain" without comment does not bother me. However, it would really be nice to know why I get a "reject".

Edited August 7, 2011 by kaiachan

[Stromboli]

Making people write a comment about why they rejected it doesn't mean you'll get helpful feedback. I've had my share of rejects come with a note that says nothing about the actual description.

[RainDear]

There are some reviewers who do reject without comment. I often suspect that they just go through the list rejecting every description they come across. Just take that type of reject with a grain of salt, reread your description looking for errors you may have missed, then if in your best judgment, they are what you wanted to say as correctly put as you can, forget that review. If you get more than 1 reject of that type, or are otherwise unsure about your description, make use of the proofreading thread to get help.

 

I'm afraid we can't expect to force someone to leave a reason for their rejects. Try not to let them get to you.

[TJ09]

Making people write a comment about why they rejected it doesn't mean you'll get helpful feedback. I've had my share of rejects come with a note that says nothing about the actual description.

However, if people put spam in comments, their description reviewing abilities will be removed as soon as a mod notices.

[kaiachan]

Thank you for your advice, raindear.

 

If nothing can be done, then I will get along with that. However, if there was a solution, then I would like it to come into operation.

 

In my point of view, people read descriptions because they try to help. If they just wish to click some buttons, I believe they should not bother using their reviewing abilities at all.

The majority rejects I get are without any comments. Therefore, it could be possible to discourage some reviewers to "reject" if they suddenly discovered that they have to comment it. Forcing them to write something will not solve the problem completely, but it might help a little bit.

 

Still thank you for trying to calm me down.

Edited August 7, 2011 by kaiachan

[Teez]

I usually leave a comment with a reject, but sometimes I don't, either because I don't have space for all I want to say or it's clear the person didn't bother to read the guidelines at all. I'd rather not have to take up my time to say something on any ones that don't even do that. :\

[Lythiaren]

The thing about forcing people to comment when they reject is that it's very easy to get around that. They could put a space or random jibberish or simply something equally unconstructive like "i thnk it sux".

[airaani]

I agree that it's still very possible to get unhelpful comments, but wouldn't requiring a comment weed out some of the rejects? I mean, it would require some effort and some people who were just clicking the button for kicks would stop, and some would leave nonsense comments and, as TJ said, it would be brought to the attention of the mods.

 

I don't really see a downside to implementing this. Sure it won't remove the problem, but it could help.

[Lythiaren]

Can you really say Ctrl+V is a significant amount of effort to deter reject trolls?

[kaiachan]

@god matter I admit that such descriptions exist too. However, if you simply write that that the text does not go along with the guidelines and send it once, your browser will remember the text as long as you do not delete the cookies.

You could use the same comment for every description you deem not proper. I doubt that it can be considered a spam as long as it fits.

 

@Lythiaren However, if the moderator notices such comments, then they will be relieved from their reviewing ability as stated by the admin who has posted. They cannot receive a ban when they do not write anything, after all. This would be baseless. However, if they write some "indecent" comments, visible for the moderators to read, then I am sure something can be done.

The problem will not disappear completely from the world, but it might improve the situation and make such incidents rarer.

 

@airaani I agree with you. It will not solve problem completely, but at least a fraction of those baseless rejections will be stopped.

[Lythiaren]

So then they'll just put a space in the comment box and no change would be made at all. That's even less useful than lewd comments which mods can already see. If there's a minimum comment length they'll just put lots of spaces or, if TJ adds a strip command (in layman's terms, it means it cuts spaces, newlines and other whitespace off the ends of a string of text), they can just hold down the period key and all you'd get is a long ellipsis which is still not a comment and still not actual spam.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Lythiaren

[~!~]

I don't think most description-less Rejects are spam Rejects. I reject descriptions without comment a lot, because I figure at least someone else will have commented with the proper description. It's not really super-useful to get five Rejects with the reason being "fix your spelling."

 

I think if comments were forced, a lot of those reason-less Rejects would come up as "Reject: grammar," or something like that, rather than nothing at all.

[kaiachan]

@Lythiaren If you have to state a reason for your rejection, then you cannot call a row of spaces a proper comment, can you?

For example: There was member in forum who only posts texts, which consist only from spaces. Do you truly believe there would be no consequences for that person? I believe he would get in trouble with the moderators.

 

@~!~ I have written descriptions before which have received seven "Accepts" and two "Rejects". Both rejections were without comments, making it really difficult for me to decide what to correct.

I do not claim that everyone who rejects without comments intends to spam. It is frustrating because you cannot filter them out from the real spam writers. If everyone has to write something, then it will be much clearer who really makes fun of others or who just do not comment because the errors are just to obvious.

However, I personally would not reject without comment. If everyone starts thinking that way, then the writers will one day always have a row of rejections without further advice or information of their errors.

Edited August 9, 2011 by kaiachan

[Lythiaren]

Do you honestly think the mods, who go through a queue of thousands of descriptions in a single batch, are superhuman enough to remember every single person who posts just a space in the comment box? Because I assure you, there will be many. And by the time the mods find them, the damage is long done.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Lythiaren

[kaiachan]

I do not think that they will remember every single person. However, if there are some people who are always doing it, then they will remain in one's memory even if you do not want to.

Like I said before, such comments will always exist and will appear, but forcing to write comments might improve the situation.

[Lythiaren]

If you think everyone who uses the comment box is going to leave a constructive comment, you're sorely mistaken. This description earned me a reject that said "Broodmother isn't a word, put a space in it you moron". Yet here it is approved. :V

 

When I go through descriptions I sometimes I reject with a blank comment simply because the errors are glaringly obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together. If you knew how many descriptions I've gone through that were typed entirely in chatspeak, you'd probably do it too.

 

People don't like being forced to do things. If anything it would encourage people to do it more. We are spiteful creatures.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Lythiaren

[Obscure_Trash]

However, if people put spam in comments, their description reviewing abilities will be removed as soon as a mod notices.

I think TJ has just sold me on this idea. xP

[kaiachan]

I have never claimed that everyone who uses the comment box will give a helpful feedback. Like I have stated several times before, such reviewers will never disappear.

 

Surely there are some writers who just type some keys and send their descriptions without proof reading it. However, I do not believe that the errors you deem obvious are not always clear for the writer too.

I am sure that I still spell and use words wrongly, which errors might be obvious for you, but I do not notice them myself. If no one tells me, then I will never figure it out.

 

I cannot recall that reading a description is forced. If you go through them, then I think that it is obvious that there will also be some "chatspeak" as you call it. It is understandable that you do not want to comment them, but I believe that reading them and telling the writers their errors before the moderators look at it is one purpose of our reviewing abilities. If you do not feel like telling the writers their errors, then I do not understand why you need to browse through them, only rejecting the works. Even if you reject, the final decision lies in the hands of the admins. I doubt that the member's opinions have great influence in their judgement.

 

Anyway, I have just stated my discomfort with unexplained rejections and my suspicion that some of those rejections I have received are baseless.

It was just a suggestion of mine that "having to post a comment when rejecting" is one way to make those causeless actions rarer. Each change has their advantages and disadvantages.

 

I will admit that you do not like my suggestion and respect your opinion.

However, perhaps you can suggest something else to improve the situation?

[Lythiaren]

You yourself recognized that rejection trolls will never be eradicated. How do you improve an unsolveable situation? You seem to believe that forcing people to comment will somehow make a significant portion of baseless rejections vanish, but I've pointed out exactly how people can continue to troll with ease. Type out a generic complaint, copy to clipboard, paste into every single rejection box and you will still get garbage rejections.

 

If anything will be cut down, it's the amount of actual reviewing that takes place. At best you'll be spammed with repeated unconstructive one-word comments like "grammar" and "spelling" because people who go on reviewing binges tend not to type much in order to get through more of them.

[~!~]

If anything will be cut down, it's the amount of actual reviewing that takes place. At best you'll be spammed with repeated unconstructive one-word comments like "grammar" and "spelling" because people who go on reviewing binges tend not to type much in order to get through more of them.

Don't forget the old classic, tl;dr.

[airaani]

You yourself recognized that rejection trolls will never be eradicated. How do you improve an unsolveable situation? You seem to believe that forcing people to comment will somehow make a significant portion of baseless rejections vanish, but I've pointed out exactly how people can continue to troll with ease. Type out a generic complaint, copy to clipboard, paste into every single rejection box and you will still get garbage rejections.

 

If anything will be cut down, it's the amount of actual reviewing that takes place. At best you'll be spammed with repeated unconstructive one-word comments like "grammar" and "spelling" because people who go on reviewing binges tend not to type much in order to get through more of them.

No one claimed that this will eliminate the problem, but if people do one of the things you suggested--post nonsense like spaces or periods in the box--it will come to the attention of the moderators and be dealt with. And, this will never happen if these people are not forced to make comments.

[Lythiaren]

iirc mods already see people's comments when approving descriptions. Such a system is already in place and it already happens. Force people to make comments and all you're doing is forcing people to put *something* into that box and when it inevitably devolves into people simply writing "grammar", "spelling", or "tl;dr" into the box and hitting whatever they hit, all you're doing is forcing people to all but strip themselves of their reviewing privileges.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Lythiaren

[airaani]

iirc mods already see people's comments when approving descriptions. Such a system is already in place and it already happens. Force people to make comments and all you're doing is forcing people to put *something* into that box and when it inevitably devolves into people simply writing "grammar", "spelling", or "tl;dr" into the box and hitting whatever they hit, all you're doing is forcing people to all but strip themselves of their reviewing privileges.

Exactly--but people who make no comments at all can't be moderated. Having to make a comment puts people on the radar, and people who make nonsense or offensive comments would be spotted. The system is in place but if people are allowed to keep rejecting willy-nilly with no thought or feedback required, the can't be caught with the current system.

And I really don't see how this is stripping anyone of their reviewing privileges, other than people who because of this will post inappropriate comments.

[kaiachan]

You yourself recognized that rejection trolls will never be eradicated.

Yes, I do. I have said that several times by now.

 

How do you improve an unsolveable situation?

Improving the situation is not the same like solving a problem.

Just because you cannot make a problem disappear from the world, does not mean that you just take it and sit down, doing nothing.

It is the same like the use of security images when you register. They exist to prevent computer programs or spam writers to join the forum. However, it is also not a big deal to look at the picture and type those letter rows down. Still, the security images are used for registrations, because it cuts down some of the numbers.

 

You seem to believe that forcing people to comment will somehow make a significant portion of baseless rejections vanish, but I've pointed out exactly how people can continue to troll with ease.  Type out a generic complaint, copy to clipboard, paste into every single rejection box and you will still get garbage rejections.

I have also stated why it is better to have such comments than nothing. If someone simply paste some unrelated comments into the box, it will attract attentions and I doubt that the moderators will just ignore it if those reviewers repeat that the whole time.

 

If anything will be cut down, it's the amount of actual reviewing that takes place.

And why does it cut down the actual reviews?

Reviewers are not able to see the other comments and it does not mean that the reviewers who do give proper comments suddenly stop writing because they have to write something down. If they have done so since the very beginning, I doubt that there is any difference for them if they write something because they want to or because they have to.

Like stated before, no one is forced to review descriptions. If you have to comment and you do not want to, then just do not review.

 

At best you'll be spammed with repeated unconstructive one-word comments like "grammar" and "spelling" because people who go on reviewing binges tend not to type much in order to get through more of them.

If those error applies to the descriptions, then it is better than nothing. If you get a rejection with no comment, read through your text and find nothing is much more frustrating than if you know where the problems lies but you are unable to pick out the error.

If it is a spelling problem, just install a dictionary program for your browser and take a look at it or copy the text in the writing program and let it check it through for you.

If it is a grammar problem, then check the verbs if they are in their correct forms, the comma issues, relative clauses, prepositions, conjunctions and prepositions.

Pointing out the problem makes spotting one's own mistakes much easier or would you immediately know what you have done wrong if your teacher who teaches you another language simply underline a wrong sentence in your homework and writes nothing next to it? Would you not also prefer that your teacher writes something above or below the incorrect sentence and tells you what is wrong?

 

Exactly--but people who make no comments at all can't be moderated. Having to make a comment puts people on the radar, and people who make nonsense or offensive comments would be spotted. The system is in place but if people are allowed to keep rejecting willy-nilly with no thought or feedback required, the can't be caught with the current system.

And I really don't see how this is stripping anyone of their reviewing privileges, other than people who because of this will post inappropriate comments.

I agree with you.

If nothing is written down, then there is no proof if it is really spam or not. If you have to write something down, then at least something will be there, which the moderators can use to judge the reviewer.

[Lythiaren]

You're vastly overestimating the amount of effort people are willing to put into their descriptions. If you were at all concerned about spelling or grammar you'd have these resources handy already, and reviewers should expect people who actually give half a rat's rear about their descriptions will care about their grammar and spelling. You personally may know what you're doing but it's unreasonable and extremely inaccurate to assume that everyone does.

 

Garbage rejections are garbage rejections. I doubt mods even care about rejections while reviewing unless there are a lot of them; remember the average score on the tree decorating contest was around 6, because of trolls. Descriptions aren't much different from that. Multiple moderators have told us that they tend to blow through description approvals in large batches; any damage caused by spam comments will be long done before they get to enough of the affected descriptions to realize there's a problem and ban the offenders.

 

Also, evidence that people who leave no comment are never seen by mods?