Cave Feedback

[Fuzzbucket]

The guaranteed hourly drops have been gone since biomes came out (I think). It has nothing to do with the new release.

I don't think they have... there seems to be good stuff on the hour for a bit, and then a reversal...

[TJ09]

There is a thread for this already.

 

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=118218

[Banuk]

Everyone has a chance to get them, if you are fast enough, if you are lucky enough to see them in the cave/AP, etc.

I have never seen a more wrong statement on this forum before.

 

No, not EVERYONE has a chance to get rares. SOME people do. But not everyone. If everyone had the chance to get rares, we would all have them. But it's not so.

 

There are people with bad Internet connections.

There are people who have to deal with a lagging Dragon Cave ALL THE TIME (like me; just upgraded my RAM and every single other site I use got faster for me except DC).

There are people who miss the hourly drops.

There are people who can't compete with 90+ other users on the abandoned page.

There are people who can't be online 24/7.

And don't even get me started on people who don't/can't have forum accounts.

 

If you don't have a perfect Internet connection, a top-of-the-line computer, and the fastest reflexes this side of the Mississippi, your chance of getting rares drops significantly. The best you can do is hope someone will gift one to you (it's worth saying that since I've joined the forums, I have seen 2 silvers, 1 gold, and 1 tinsel be gifted--not nearly enough to go around), which is unlikely. Or you can lurk in the trade forums and hope you have the right combination of commons. Or you can join one of those collecting competitions and raise nothing but blockers for weeks on end and hope someone will reward you.

 

And if you don't have a forum account, you're SoL for gifting, trading, and competitions.

 

So, no, not EVERYONE can get rares.

 

EDIT: It's also worth saying: since the biomes were implemented, I have seen two CB silvers, and two tinsels in the AP. No golds whatsoever.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Derranged

[Dolphinsong]

I have never seen a more wrong statement on this forum before.

 

No, not EVERYONE has a chance to get rares. SOME people do. But not everyone. If everyone had the chance to get rares, we would all have them. But it's not so.

 

There are people with bad Internet connections.

There are people who have to deal with a lagging Dragon Cave ALL THE TIME (like me; just upgraded my RAM and every single other site I use got faster for me except DC).

There are people who miss the hourly drops.

There are people who can't compete with 90+ other users on the abandoned page.

There are people who can't be online 24/7.

And don't even get me started on people who don't/can't have forum accounts.

 

If you don't have a perfect Internet connection, a top-of-the-line computer, and the fastest reflexes this side of the Mississippi, your chance of getting rares drops significantly. The best you can do is hope someone will gift one to you (it's worth saying that since I've joined the forums, I have seen 2 silvers, 1 gold, and 1 tinsel be gifted--not nearly enough to go around), which is unlikely. Or you can lurk in the trade forums and hope you have the right combination of commons. Or you can join one of those collecting competitions and raise nothing but blockers for weeks on end and hope someone will reward you.

 

And if you don't have a forum account, you're SoL for gifting, trading, and competitions.

 

So, no, not EVERYONE can get rares.

 

EDIT: It's also worth saying: since the biomes were implemented, I have seen two CB silvers, and two tinsels in the AP. No golds whatsoever.

There have been times my internet has been crappy to all hell and during that time period I snagged a silver from the cave.

 

I lag often and still got a second silver egg months later

 

I mis the hourly drops like.... most of the time yet how do you explain the 2 cb silvers i have?

 

I complete with over 200 people daily

 

i'm only only 18 hours does that make me special?

 

Your arguments are void. EVERYONE has a chance. I got TWO cave born silvers DISPITE bad internet, DISPITE constant lag, DISPITE over 200 people, DISPITE not being able to get to every hourly drop, DISPITE not being online 24/7.

 

And this I beleive was BEFORE I made my fourm account. (just checked, first silver was before i joined the fourms, second was about a week after joining)

 

My computer is having hard drive problems, AT&T internet which acts up, laptop is THREE years old and having hardware problems, AND A BAD WRIST meaning i cannot use it that fast. Yet here I sit, with 2 cave born silvers, bred gold I had to snag from the AP via the old fashion trade system, alt vine in the same format, AND A HOLLY!.

 

Just because you have trouble doesn't mean you still don't have a fair shot at a rare, I sure managed it!

Edited July 24, 2011 by Dolphinsong

[Imbecamiel]

What Dolphinsong said - although my luck hasn't been as good as hers. *g*

 

Also, I'd point out that you don't see all the gifting that's going on. Yes, I've joined some of the gifting threads, or threads where you "earn" rares with a certain amount of commons. I've also had kind people randomly contact me to offer rares... at least three times. They weren't asking anything in return. They just saw me mention somewhere that I was having trouble getting a certain kind of dragon... so they gave me one. Now that I've got more myself, I've been making an effort to share the love, and give away nice dragons to people who don't have them.

 

Thing is, a lot of that happens through PM - so you don't see the sharing happening.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Imbecamiel

[Dolphinsong]

Rares are rare for a reason. Before the bioms were introduced I would see silvers and golds go by a few times a day when i do manage to get to the hourly drops, but never fast enough to get them because someone managed to refresh just before I did and got to it first.

[RheaZen]

@Dolphinsong - but that was all in the "way back when" - says "Joined: 14-October 08"? Things were different.

[Dolphinsong]

What I speak of is what I have noticed beween then and now.

[Fuzzbucket]

@Dolphinsong - but that was all in the "way back when" - says "Joined: 14-October 08"? Things were different.

Indeed - but when I first joined I was on amazingly crap dialup. I have to say that it has not become ANY easier to catch since I went high speed. It is YOUR reflexes that do it. And she's right about the gifting and the rest too. Some of my BEST stuff has come from lovely people here.

 

I actually NEVER saw a CB metallic before biomes. I haven't CAUGHT one yet - but I have seen two silvers and a gold... It's a start !

[Banuk]

There have been times my internet has been crappy to all hell and during that time period I snagged a silver from the cave.

 

I lag often and still got a second silver egg months later

 

I mis the hourly drops like.... most of the time yet how do you explain the 2 cb silvers i have?

 

I complete with over 200 people daily

 

i'm only only 18 hours does that make me special?

 

Your arguments are void. EVERYONE has a chance. I got TWO cave born silvers DISPITE bad internet, DISPITE constant lag, DISPITE over 200 people, DISPITE not being able to get to every hourly drop, DISPITE not being online 24/7.

 

And this I beleive was BEFORE I made my fourm account. (just checked, first silver was before i joined the fourms, second was about a week after joining)

 

My computer is having hard drive problems, AT&T internet which acts up, laptop is THREE years old and having hardware problems, AND A BAD WRIST meaning i cannot use it that fast. Yet here I sit, with 2 cave born silvers, bred gold I had to snag from the AP via the old fashion trade system, alt vine in the same format, AND A HOLLY!.

 

Just because you have trouble doesn't mean you still don't have a fair shot at a rare, I sure managed it!

Was all of this before or after the implementation of biomes and teleport? Before breeding got screwed up?

 

Or perhaps you're just one of the lucky ones.

 

Not everyone is so lucky.

 

For instance, I have two friends I met on a virtual pet site who, despite having played for at least a year now (probably more) have NO rares at all DESPITE their best efforts. The only ones they do have were gifted to them...by me. After I created a forum account and was able to trade.

 

No. Not everyone. Some. Maybe most. But not all.

 

And I'm not talking about ME here. I have some rares. Went through hell to get some of them, but get them I did. But there are people out there who can't. I'm speaking up for them.

 

I've also had kind people randomly contact me to offer rares... at least three times.

 

But, realistically, how often does that happen? And it CAN'T happen with no forum account. Which not everyone does. Key word "everyone".

 

The argument here is that EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY PERSON who plays DC can get a rare. It's simply not true.

[Dolphinsong]

Everyone have an equal shot at it. It just comes to the luck of the refresh. 100 people refreshing their browser at same time, some slightly faster than others. those that see the rare on their screen first are the first ones trying to click it, the FASTEST in refreshing and responding gets it. Everyone else is either still on waiting for refresh to finish and then see it (cause it hasn't registered being taken during that refresh) and try have already missed. But at least they were fast enough to even see it. Really its all the luck of the draw. Its like the lottery, many ppl enter, extream few win if they even get lucky enough.

 

Just because not everyone have fourm accounts DOESN'T mean they don't have a site elsewhere they contact other scroll owners.

 

EVERYONE CAN GET A RARE! Its all the LUCK OF THE REFRESH that decides it. Rares are RARE, meaning HARD TO OBTAIN. If everyone in the world had the same exact luck as everyone else, we would all be living the high life, not a single person would be poor or homeless or working a job they dislike. It actually devalues it in the long run.

 

Heck I'm still trying for negleted and GoN dragons. Both also part of luck.

 

Also you want to talk about HARD to do dispite lag and bad connection and bad computer? Watching an hourly drop and suddenly there are 3 unknown eggs at the end of the drop and actually GETTING one of them!. I was one of the first THREE Vampire owners on the entire site to my knowledge based on what I saw on that refresh. And this was BEFORE TJ made the announcement about them.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Dolphinsong

[Imbecamiel]

I think, too Derranged, that you're confusing what's possible - everyone DOES have a chance at rares, though of course not an equal one in all ways - with saying that, in practice, everyone actually gets rares with equal frequency. They don't. Of course they don't.

 

Not everyone's on a completely equal playing field - and I say this as someone with an absolutely terrible internet connection, not only slow but constantly cutting out on me, and chronic lag. Would I love a better chance at a CB mettalic? (Which I don't have any of, btw.) I most certainly would. But I don't think it's actually unfair, or a problem with the game, that my chances are what they are. I have a chance at grabbing one. Just like everyone else.

[Banuk]

I give up.

[Fuzzbucket]

I think, too Derranged, that you're confusing what's possible - everyone DOES have a chance at rares, though of course not an equal one in all ways - with saying that, in practice, everyone actually gets rares with equal frequency. They don't. Of course they don't.

 

Not everyone's on a completely equal playing field - and I say this as someone with an absolutely terrible internet connection, not only slow but constantly cutting out on me, and chronic lag. Would I love a better chance at a CB mettalic? (Which I don't have any of, btw.) I most certainly would. But I don't think it's actually unfair, or a problem with the game, that my chances are what they are. I have a chance at grabbing one. Just like everyone else.

Yes to this too. On the most rubbish connection in the world, 28 kbps and shaky at that, I caught almost everything but metallics. Cheese, dinos, papers, the full trio....

[olympe]

There have been times my internet has been crappy to all hell and during that time period I snagged a silver from the cave.

 

I lag often and still got a second silver egg months later

 

I mis the hourly drops like.... most of the time yet how do you explain the 2 cb silvers i have?

 

I complete with over 200 people daily

 

i'm only only 18 hours does that make me special?

 

Your arguments are void. EVERYONE has a chance. I got TWO cave born silvers DISPITE bad internet, DISPITE constant lag, DISPITE over 200 people, DISPITE not being able to get to every hourly drop, DISPITE not being online 24/7.

 

And this I beleive was BEFORE I made my fourm account. (just checked, first silver was before i joined the fourms, second was about a week after joining)

 

My computer is having hard drive problems, AT&T internet which acts up, laptop is THREE years old and having hardware problems, AND A BAD WRIST meaning i cannot use it that fast. Yet here I sit, with 2 cave born silvers, bred gold I had to snag from the AP via the old fashion trade system, alt vine in the same format, AND A HOLLY!.

 

Just because you have trouble doesn't mean you still don't have a fair shot at a rare, I sure managed it!

Uhm, yeah. From what I heard, the ratios of rares dropped very significantly early in 2009, so you were there when rares were not as rare. And the ratios of rare breeding, at least, have gone downhill again quite recently. So much for equal chances.

 

EVERYONE CAN GET A RARE! Its all the LUCK OF THE REFRESH that decides it.

Not if the site takes you 10 seconds or more to load when someone else with a faster connection can load it in less than 2. I mean, come on, it takes us less than a second to see if a rare has arrived and to hit F5 if not. I doubt anybody will take more than 8 seconds to grab that rare, so the user with a slow connection is, very simply, out of luck. Truth to be told, usually I don't even see any rares despite refreshing very quickly - but I guess that the rares are there whenever the page takes my computer endlessly (often way more than 15 seconds) to load. At least I finally can see CB uncommons, though. (I yet have to actually manage to catch them...)

[bluebell_rose]

I had a 256k connection and I managed to snag a cb gold but that was back before the breeding ratios went to hell

[~!~]

And she's right about the gifting and the rest too. Some of my BEST stuff has come from lovely people here.

I'd just like to point out that for some people, having to be gifted things really takes the fun out of the game. I don't like being gifted things, myself, and although I wouldn't turn down an unsolicited attempt to further enlarge my collection, I don't go seeking them deliberately. (I had to think long and hard about the Holly I was gifted, but that was before every single runner-up winner of the tree contest except one chose CB Hollies as their prizes.)

 

Right now, I feel like the only possible way for me to get a Tinsel is to trade for one or get gifted one. Sure, people throw them away a lot, but I just haven't got the time or the interest for the monotony of constant refreshing of the AP.

 

I agree that you have to work hard to get rare dragons on this site, but I'd like to point out that in the eyes of some, you have to work too hard. People are just not willing to put in the effort necessary (not that it's difficult, just tedious) to get them on their own. I've bitten the bullet on that one (still don't have a CB Silver, after three years) but I can see why other people have not.

 

I do think that it has gotten harder, much harder, to get rare dragons on your own over time. I think this is because there are fewer being made compared to the number of users. When I got my CB Gold, there were far fewer members, everyone had smaller egg limits, and not a lot of people were breeding.

 

I believe that it is possible to make rare dragons easier to get without devaluing them. The only way to do that, is to just make more of everything. More commons, more uncommons, more at the cave, more being bred. The only way that I can see of accomplishing this, is solving the problem of blockers. If that problem can be solved, the population of the cave can go up, and there will be more of every dragon for everybody, with all proportions staying the same, therefore maintaining the value of every dragon.

 

I'm not saying we need to triple the output of the cave or anything. In fact, I would suggest playing with the population until people stop complaining (either that there are too few rares or that there are too many commons). And, just to reiterate, this would have to happen after blockers become a thing of the past, through whatever means.

 

tl;dr version: Solve blocking, more dragons, game becomes easier.

[WraithZephyr]

I had a 256k connection and I managed to snag a cb gold but that was back before the breeding ratios went to hell

I am on an antiquated computer and got several CB golds during the great rare glitch (when they were producing like uncommons instead of rare for a short while both in the cave and through breeding), but even then I still had to work to catch the suckers. Seeing 4 golds/silver drop each hour was fun though even if I couldn't catch them all. LOL.

[Dolphinsong]

Blockers will NEVER be solved unless TJ completley removes having the AP block the main cave. The reason its there is to encourage people to take and raise abandonded eggs/hatchlings instead of letting them rot there forever.

[FosterMom]

I would not mind hoarding a lot of the unwanted commons... but only IF we are allowed to have actual REAL "pages" on the scrolls...pages that we dictate what dragons show up on.. not the x-number of dragons per page we have now. You just can't organize anything effectively that way. Why can't scrolls be allowed to have real organizational pages (or call them tabs) like a notebook.

 

For example, I like having my scroll organized by breed.. so it really deters me from grabbing a lot of things because that is just that much more "stuff" to have to sift through to get to the dragons that I do use for breeding on a regular basis. If I had say 10 designated pages where I could specify what dragons go on what pages (5 dragons on this page, 20 on that page, 200 on that page, etc.), I could still have my scroll organized by what I use frequently to the stuff random stuff that i pick up and really don't plan on doing anything with, but within each of those pages they would be organized by breed.

THIS!!!

 

I had the same thought. If I could put my common collections on separate pages from my main collection - even possibly put each breed in it's own page ...

 

Honestly, I KNOW it would be possible, but I have NO CLUE if this would be feasible, from TJ coding point of view. But even 2 sections of scroll would be phenominal, IMO.

 

Second, as regards hoarding - I would love to have a black alt - have been trying for one almost since I got on here - and I'll admit it irks me to see a scroll with double digit black alts. same for alt vines. Still, that's the breaks. My kids got an alt black and an alt vine without even trying - I got nada after trying for years. That's life. *SIGH* and move on.

 

Also, people, please quit trying to blame TJ and Dragon Cave for your technical issues. TJ and DC ARE NOT responsible for your computer or internet connection. Besides, if he slowed things down for your benefit, guess what? The quicker folks would STILL beat you to it, because they are quicker. I don't have ANY metallics - and have only seen one or two ANYWHERE in the cave or AP. I haven't been gifted any, either (and no, I haven't asked.)

 

Got a laptop? Head for a hot spot - many libraries have T-1 connections you can hook up to. Many also have computers you can use. Go to a friends house and use their fast connection / computer. Make friends on DC and do some trades and / or get a catcher.

 

I don't always agree with things implemented - and I gt frustrated right along with everyone else. But, folks, can we at least TRY to be mature about things here? No matter how hard you try, you will NEVER please EVERYONE. TJ will never please everyone, the spriters will never please everyone, and that goes for the system, the ratios, the cave, you name it.

 

And, whether YOU like it or not, DC IS TJ's baby. He can do WHATEVER he likes with it, even scrap it, completely and without any notice to you. Be glad that he pays as much attention to the users here (and with a great deal of patience) as he does. He is far better than some I can name.

 

If you cannot deal with those basic facts, maybe you should move on.

Good luck finding anything, anywhere that will make you happy 100% of the time.

 

[~!~]

Blockers will NEVER be solved unless TJ completley removes having the AP block the main cave. The reason its there is to encourage people to take and raise abandonded eggs/hatchlings instead of letting them rot there forever.

I mean, it could happen if the ratio of one common to another isn't static.

[Lythiaren]

-snip-

For that glorious post, I will give you the next alt black that hatches on my scroll.

 

c:

[00n0b0dy]

Blockers will NEVER be solved unless TJ completley removes having the AP block the main cave. The reason its there is to encourage people to take and raise abandonded eggs/hatchlings instead of letting them rot there forever.

Actually, I believe the motion there was about cave blockers, not cave blocking. Different things. AP block is independent of there being three fogs or three water walkers or three nocturnes sitting and preventing motion in the caves when the AP isn't blocking it.

 

To those who would like rares, I can't say snot for raising your chances for CBs realistically. Even having been playing since '08 at times with very good computer and/or internet, I can count the number of times I've seen metallics in cave on one hand over that whole period. But if you'll take bred ones, especially those with long lines or inbreeding, there are plenty of people willing to hand them over for little or nothing. I've gifted 9/10 of the metals I've bred, am listed on most of the gifting centers, *and* have an invitation in my siggy saying to ask me if you'd like me to try to get something for you. And then I sometimes also go out of my way to offer things to people when I see their scrolls don't have something or they have a wishlist in their sig. You just have to be patient and *actually try*. Now, does that mean I don't think the ratios could use some tweaking? Or does that necessarily mean that will satisfy everyone? Absolutely not. I feel that the game would not suffer to have some more rares and uncommons produced, but that's not my decision to make. A lot of people have protested that, and it's TJ's decision in the end regardless of what we think. But there are possibilities if you're willing to wait and/or work your butt off and/or just make it clear you are looking for something.

[~!~]

Actually, I believe the motion there was about cave blockers, not cave blocking. Different things. AP block is independent of there being three fogs or three water walkers or three nocturnes sitting and preventing motion in the caves when the AP isn't blocking it.

Actually, I think Dolph has a point with that one. People who cave hunt want the cave to be open, so they will be less inclined to abandon because that will cause the AP to block the cave. Because they're less inclined to abandon, they're less inclined to pick up an egg they don't really want to raise, so they're less inclined to pick up blockers. Hence, removing the AP blocking the cave would make people more inclined to pick up blockers, because they would eventually be able to just abandon them again with no side effects.

[Dolphinsong]

And cave blocking eggs are there for a reason. No one is intrested in them. And it varies over time on which eggs it is.