Cave Feedback

[LibbyLishly]

12 minutes ago, Starscream said:

I strongly doubt alt owners are going to ditch their alts to pick up CB pinks, when we can just grab g2 pinks from the AP - although there might be a few. I am glad for the reversal - but it really doesn't matter if they would breed true or not.

 

Considering I know of one user who already HAS dumped one alt so they can have one CB of each, and have seen another user in the past essentially saying they'd prefer the regulars and didn't much care for their alts, I think there are more who will do that than you think.

 

My scroll isn't coded to alt, so the alts breeding true doesn't affect me in the least, but it clearly mattered to a lot of people, based on the response in this thread and the news thread - and thus it matters to me. Heck, this game doesn't matter in the long run, really. It's just a fun little collect-and-breed game that I can walk away from if I find it no longer improves my quality of life. Doesn't mean I can't strongly disapprove of the decisions that are made in the running of it and want to see the players consistently treated well.

[deleted_account]

Alt Black Sweetlings will become the new 2g Hollies in the future, just with SA mechanic to most of userbase... That's unavoidable with the current decision...

 

Not to mention it's not fair some users can have both variants (even CB if they abandon 1 alt) while others can't possibly get the 2nd at all. TJ is making yet another discrimination-based mistake... I adressed this in the news thread, so won't repeat.

https://forums.dragcave.net/topic/181649-2018-02-08-valentines-event-schedule/?do=findComment&comment=9636782

 

[dothefreddy]

Uhhhh...alt owners are NOT getting 4CBs. Where did you get that idea? It's just the standard two and if they choose to have a pink they need to get rid of one of their adult alts.

 

0_o

[Starscream]

1 hour ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

I'm glad that the Alt Sweetling owners can finally enjoy Pinks, but it does feel kinda... shorthanded to let them now have 4 CB Sweetlings while everyone else goes without. I understand Alt Sweetlings were a thing that happened way, way back in DC's history that TJ would probably rather move on from, but just like Prizes they happened, they're there, and they're here to stay. If Kila was dead set on not letting them spread further than I could grudgingly understand (though I'd beg reconsidering), but otherwise... why? What's the harm in passing more around? Again, trying not to sound like a greedy child, but it really does seem normal Pink owners are getting the short end of the stick here. >___<

We cannot get 4CB. We get two, if we want a CB pink we must abandon.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

My bad, I saw "those users will instead be able to obtain the normal dragon via the cave"  and misunderstood ^^;

 

Revised statement:

 

I'm glad that the Alt Sweetling owners can finally enjoy Pinks, but it does feel kinda... shorthanded to let them enjoy both while everyone else goes without. I understand Alt Sweetlings were a thing that happened way, way back in DC's history that TJ would probably rather move on from, but just like Prizes they happened, they're there, and they're here to stay. If Kila was dead set on not letting them spread further than I could grudgingly understand (though I'd beg reconsidering), but otherwise... why? What's the harm in passing more around? Again, trying not to sound like a greedy child, but it really does seem normal Pink owners are getting the short end of the stick here. >___<

 

 

 

[purpledragonclaw]

The Alt Sweetlings are nice, but I've always preferred the Pink ones, and am glad I didn't get any of the Alts. I do understand and agree with your point, though, ADP, that now Alt owners can get both while Pink owners still only get one type.

 

Alt Sweetlings remind me of gendered Paper dragons, in a way: only available to certain players, and those players can have both gendered and non-gendered Papers, while newer players can only have non-gendered. 

[Fateweaver]

A Sweetling is a Sweetling, whether dark or pink. I'm just happy as a player to be able to get a CB at all so I can use them to create my own lineages.

Its just a color difference, and to me makes no difference at all.

 

Its no different to me than like on the game Elder Scrolls Online. When opening a Crown Crate you might get a fancy red fire wolf mount or you might get a super rare blue fire wolf mount. They're the same thing except for color. Maybe one is considered "rarer" to some folks. I prefer to see it as "Hey cool I get to have this awesome red fire wolf mount." I don't covet the blue mount because I got one of my own no matter what color its base is. <3

Edited February 8, 2018 by Fateweaver

[Dragon_Arbock]

@Fateweaver Well, I think the difference there is, the mount, regardless of color, has a function besides looking pretty. The dragons on this site really don't. Color is really the only important thing with it comes to the main gameplay (breeding and building lineages).

The fact that only a few users got what is generally considered the better color, is hard to be okay with. There are not a lot of dragons in the game sharing that color scheme either, to substitute them with.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Dragon_Arbock

[Fateweaver]

Fair enough. I see what you're getting at but for me its just a very meh point sadly. I'm just perfectly happy to have a CB Sweetling at all.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Fateweaver

[Guillotine]

The base problem is one of exclusivity, which is a problem in a game where you can nominally get anything if you work hard enough. Spriter Alts are at least earned exclusives that cannot breed true (I don't think the spriter can even get new CBs that are their alts), while for many, many years Alt Sweetlings DID, and they were never earned (and with the number of unrecompensed glitches we've had very recently, I find the "apology for a glitch" excuse wearing increasingly thin). Ideally they never would have been released at all, but they're here and removing them wholesale would hurt a lot of people so i'm not keen on it. "**** you all pinks" would still be better than the current state, which allows a few very lucky people to have both sprites, though.

 

The best solution would be to have some way to obtain new CB alts, whether by a Aegis-like BSA (blegh, at least as long as we only have 2 CB slots) or by some other means.
 

[Dragon_Arbock]

I still want to know why TJ thinks it would be 'inappropriate' to release more as CBs. Inappropriate why? Because they were an apology? It would only be inappropriate if the majority of alt owners felt it was- but he doesn't know that, because he didn't ask them.  (asking only your mods doesn't count).

 

[Fuzzbucket]

Because he does. Not everything can be explained rationally.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[Dragon_Arbock]

1 minute ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Because he does. Not everything can be explained rationally.

 

But if it's not rational, there's no reason that feeling should get in the way.

[Fuzzbucket]

Feelings get in the way of all sorts of things. I cannot explain my feelings about my mother; they are in no way rational, but they make me act in ways that.... And no matter how hard I think about it, that isn't going to change any time soon.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@Fuzzbucket Running a website requires more thought behind things affecting your users than "feelings," though. I don't think people would be keen if Amazon only let UK users order David Attenborough documentaries based on no rationale beyond "that's how we feel it should be done."

 

Kinda beside the point, though, since we don't know why TJ feels it would be inappropriate. Personally I'm still guessing it's the whole thing about it being a glitch and a quick decision and wanting to sort of move on and forget about it, but as I mentioned above, what's done is done and things need to move on with that in mind. I don't think how Prizes were introduced was a great idea, but we've come a long way from there and hopefully will come even farther. Alt Sweetlings are admittedly a weirder case than Prizes, but still; once something's out in the wild in a big way, it needs to be dealt with. I still don't think there's any harm in spreading them about. Just think of it as a continuation of the Snow Angel idea. (Ironically, weren't they released in the same holiday grouping?)

Edited February 8, 2018 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Starscream]

1 hour ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

(asking only your mods doesn't count).

 

you are assuming he asked the mods. And why wouldn't we count anyway?

[Dragon_Arbock]

1 minute ago, Starscream said:

you are assuming he asked the mods. And why wouldn't we count anyway?

 

Not that you don't count at all, but it is easier for you to talk to TJ and have your concerns heard than it is for the average user. It takes weeks for him to answer us if he ever does at all.

[Starscream]

13 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

 

Not that you don't count at all, but it is easier for you to talk to TJ and have your concerns heard than it is for the average user. It takes weeks for him to answer us if he ever does at all.

normally when I talk with him, its about clarifying things, or bringing up site issues. TJ does not always give me an answer unless he deems an answer is needed - on top of it, he is a very busy man and cannot drop what he is doing to answer everyone's questions.

[olympe]

21 hours ago, Starscream said:

I'm trying to wrap my head around this just a little.

 

IF they were released in cave as a separate species, then does this mean I missed out on the original sweetling release?

 

IF they were released as a separate species, then, they should be slightly different - such as the removal of the skull on the butt. I know that the chances are they'll release sweetlings again, like xmas or hallowe'en.

 

Following that reasoning, new CB pink Sweetlings should get their hearts removed, too. And maybe we should remove the slightly lighter coloring on the original Val '09s for the new CBs, too? Or the ribbon on the Rosebuds? Shrink the antlers on Heartseekers? Remove the swirly magic mist from the Arsanis? And so on. Of course, this also holds true for all other old holidays, be it Winter Holiday or Halloween dragons.

 

And, since we're at it: Maybe we could take the laurel off the new CB Tinsels and whatever else from new CB Shimmers. /irony

 

Sorry, but this suggestion makes absolutely zero sense to me.

[OMGitsKairi]

Not sure whether the update is better or worse. A subset of the users who were already privileged in this regard now get to enjoy both sprites...

 

If this is the way things are to be, why not have the alts behave like all the other alts in the cave? Ie can be bred from other Sweetlings (Maybe

including some kind of BSA as someone else suggested, or perhaps a mix of eggs in each clutch?) That way everyone is able to collect and

enjoy both sprites, but the CBs are still kept special for those who received them. (The same way the CB alts of other breeds were either a 

glitch or a raffle prize.)

[Draketeeth]

6 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

I'm glad that the Alt Sweetling owners can finally enjoy Pinks, but it does feel kinda... shorthanded to let them enjoy both while everyone else goes without. I understand Alt Sweetlings were a thing that happened way, way back in DC's history that TJ would probably rather move on from, but just like Prizes they happened, they're there, and they're here to stay. If Kila was dead set on not letting them spread further than I could grudgingly understand (though I'd beg reconsidering), but otherwise... why? What's the harm in passing more around? Again, trying not to sound like a greedy child, but it really does seem normal Pink owners are getting the short end of the stick here. >___<

 

 

 

 

I agree, alt owners shouldn't get both sprites, it isn't fair to folks who only get pinks. If this happens, Snow Angels should be next. Why are there three types? It's time to par down to one and retire the others. Or they should breed true to their wings. I love snow angels, don't hurt those precious gentle angels

 

Consider from the flip side: there has always been a tiny population of black sweetlings and with the release of valentines again, it's shrinking proportionately. Owners of the black sprite have very limited options of who to trade with and a small number of lineage types without repeating parents. Regular sweetling owners have a massive advantage in breeding and trading the pink lineages. They don't have to AP hunt for endless hours hoping to find another dark lineage to continue for their scroll. Their entire breeding theme is not suddenly being upended by this abrupt change. If anyone is to be envious, it's the alt owners. And now they can only hope to continue their lines if it comes from another black alt. This change is a noose being pulled around their sprites.

 

I don't think more CB black sweetlings should be released, that negates the original purpose of them being gifted to those caught in the nasty glitch. But there should have been more communication about the change before a decision was implemented. Why TJ has decided the blacks won't breed true, I'm uncertain. Dunno if it's something with the artist, or if he's afraid of having to enact a retroactive change which might excite riots by itself having blacks bred from pinks turn pink and pinks from blacks abruptly turn black, and can't grandfather in existing lineages.

 

The easiest would be to leave things alone and endure the occasional grumble. We survived snow angels and their drama. Why can't we survive sweetlings?

[Dragon_Arbock]

@Draketeeth Snow Angels still come up. TJ himself said he would consider allowing them to breed true, or for their colors to rotate every year. Personally I like breeding true. Some people did not, because it would kill alternating lineages.. but considering the new behavior of alt sweetlings will do that too, I do not think he cares about killing alternating lineages.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Can we please do something about the massive viewbombing going on? It's starting to become increasingly frustrating that we now have to hide our scrolls again. At least they were kind enough to wait until the day before V-Day this time to start the viewbombing, unlike Christmas but it's still a mess in itself.

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't see what can be done other than careful fogging and hiding. Whatever may be done about hatcheries, even if TJ only allowed API access to those who demanded a password, anyone can bomb very effectively using a couple of sites that even I know, as well as sigs on high traffic forums etc,. It's a problem, yes, but I am absolutely certain it is something that is outside TJ's powers to fix. Take EATW's demise - that wasn't done in hatcheries or anything that TJ could (or indeed, should have to ) deal with. Anyone who knows how to set up a bot can do it to a scroll...

Edited February 13, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[Guillotine]

Expanding Ward's protection time and allowing eggs in trades to be fogged comes to mind.

 

But that's not a forum feedback thing and would be better off in the thread(s?) about it.