Cave Feedback

[iarsma]

Since we have a dedicated page for Teleport where you can see all the Magis available, it would be awesome to have such a page for other BSAs, like Incubate and Influence.

A BSA page, like we have an Account page, Dragons page, etc. perhaps. It could be like the Action page, where it lists all actions available, but fades out the BSAs you don't have access to yet, and explains why (no dragons capable of that BSA, all dragons capable of that BSA are on cooldown, etc.) and from there you click the link for the BSA you want, and are given a list of all the appropriate dragons.

[rebelgoddess19]

The only complaint I have with the new cave layout is navigation is a bit trickier and more complicated. Some suggestions:

• When you miss an egg in a biome, it would be very useful to have a link to return to the biome you were in after the message that you've missed the egg.

• If you're in a biome, like the Forest, it would be nice to be able to click on 'Forest' in the biome navigation bar to refresh the page. Having the biome navigation bar on that page would work just as well.

• I'd LOVE if there was a link to the AP in the biome navigation bar. It would also help if the biome navigation bar appeared in the AP.

• I'd also like if Teleport generated a direct link in addition to the bbcode and HTML fields.

• Since we have a dedicated page for Teleport where you can see all the Magis available, it would be awesome to have such a page for other BSAs, like Incubate and Influence.

Otherwise, I like the biomes. I've had to adjust how I hunt and sometimes it doesn't work out how I'd like but overall there are more advantages than disadvantages.

It would be nice to have some of these features.

 

Whenever I don't get a egg - I normally just backspace and then refresh. However if you meant like a tab on the top where it shows all the biomes where you can click it from anywhere in the site - like the account and dragon page.

 

I also would LOVE to have something like trading for incubates and influences etc. It would mean that I could get rid of the spread sheet I had to make

[Obscure_Trash]

Just want to mention that there are threads already for most the things you had in mind (in case you want to pitch in there):

 

* When you miss an egg in a biome, it would be very useful to have a link to return to the biome you were in after the message that you've missed the egg. http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=118106

* If you're in a biome, like the Forest, it would be nice to be able to click on 'Forest' in the biome navigation bar to refresh the page. Having the biome navigation bar on that page would work just as well. http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=117847

* I'd LOVE if there was a link to the AP in the biome navigation bar. It would also help if the biome navigation bar appeared in the AP. AP: http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=117585 (I know we had a biome one, but I can't seem to find it.)

* I'd also like if Teleport generated a direct link in addition to the bbcode and HTML fields. (There is a direct link, it's just not in an easy copy'pasta box like the other two. =P )

* Since we have a dedicated page for Teleport where you can see all the Magis available, it would be awesome to have such a page for other BSAs, like Incubate and Influence. http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=106392

[Paradiso]

* I'd also like if Teleport generated a direct link in addition to the bbcode and HTML fields. (There is a direct link, it's just not in an easy copy'pasta box like the other two. =P )

I'm a key command user. Click mouse in box. Control+A, Control+C, go to IM, Control+V, Enter.

 

Highlighting is so much extra work.

 

I'll go look through those other threads.

[TJ09]

I'm a key command user. Click mouse in box. Control+A, Control+C, go to IM, Control+V, Enter.

 

Highlighting is so much extra work.

 

I'll go look through those other threads.

The URL bar. It contains the very same URL that you need to link people to.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Cinnamin Draconna, have you actually ever played a game where how the game functions was divulged to all the players? Because if you have, I'll find that rather amazing.

 

It's one thing to ask for confirmation regarding whether something is working properly or not. It's another thing entirely to ask for specific information regarding how the game functions, determines things, etc.

 

I get that you're frustrated, irritated, at the end of your rope, whatever - but that doesn't entitle you to that information. When you play any game, you just have to accept that you don't get to know everything, and that sometimes you're just going to have to live with responses like "Everything is working as it should."

 

-------------------------

 

I am NOT asking for details, just numbers.. What is the population of X dragon breed. I want to compare populations and see if I'm being told the truth. I think I am being deceived about the ratios, because I can't get a straight answer about anything. I have no intent to 'reverse engineer' anything, because I wouldn't know how to in the first place.

 

The only Why? I want to know about, is.. Why won't TJ tell us when he changes something? A major change to breeding success rates SHOULD have been announced, along with why the change was made. He told us about the changes when he fixed the overbreeding of metals, why couldn't he tell us about it when he changed the commons? And there seems to be something going on with Vampires too.. it hasn't affected me, but I've seen dozens of posts about it, so someone certainly thinks there is a problem. What changed about Vampires and why, should have been announced too.

 

TJ is site owner.. TJ is the game creator.. I do not dispute this.

But TJ is NOT god and he has a responsibility to his players, to keep us informed if he changes the way the game works in such a way that it affects how we play the game.

Edited July 18, 2011 by SockPuppet Strangler

[olympe]

Cinnamin Draconna, have you actually ever played a game where how the game functions was divulged to all the players? Because if you have, I'll find that rather amazing.

 

It's one thing to ask for confirmation regarding whether something is working properly or not. It's another thing entirely to ask for specific information regarding how the game functions, determines things, etc.

 

I get that you're frustrated, irritated, at the end of your rope, whatever - but that doesn't entitle you to that information. When you play any game, you just have to accept that you don't get to know everything, and that sometimes you're just going to have to live with responses like "Everything is working as it should."

I don't know why you picked out Cinnamin Draconna for your reply, because I actually asked for some stats, not her. (Although I do take it as a compliment, so thanks.) To answer your questions, many games are released with a booklet (that you have to pay extra for) where all the mechanics (and a lot of other stuff) are explained. Other games have fansites where everything is explained. (Pokemon, for example. Personally, I'm a fan of bisafan's, but that's in German only.) We have TJ's word that everything is fine, despite people experiencing huge differences. So, yes, a bit of background info (on how/why things changed, what to expect etc) would be nice. Even if it's only about things that obviously are not the same as usual.

 

 

Regarding the issue of reverse engineering or cheating, as brought up by someone or other: Asking for stats for the site does not change my chances of achieving anything. If I know that every 30th breeding of metallics results in a metallic egg, I still won't be able to cheat the numbers. And if I do get more than my "fair share" of metallic eggs, it's due to sheer dumb luck - and nothing but. Knowing the numbers, approximate ratios and whatnot will not enable us to cheat them since we cannot influence the random number generators in any way. Even knowing that there are X ND hatchlings on site won't allow us to make one any easier than without knowing they're there. Even knowing their stats won't be of much help to us since they change rather rapidly around the time of hatching. So where's the harm in some stats? (Not the code, mind you, that would be way beyond me and most others.)

 

Also, I was not asking for the algorithm that determines which breeds are put into the biomes or how breeding results are determined, all I asked for is numbers on how many eggs, hatchlings and adults (of no more than one year of age) are on site. Because stats help us to understand that some things are not "because of the ratios", but because of the actions of the user base. (Like the apparent "flood" of neotropicals, pebbles, water walkers and some others. From what I gleaned from Silvie's stats before they were taken down again, these breeds are actually underrepresented...)

[~!~]

Cinnamin Draconna, have you actually ever played a game where how the game functions was divulged to all the players? Because if you have, I'll find that rather amazing.

We call that "open-source." Uncommon among games, but rather useful in a game where users are allowed to suggest (and even code their own) new features. (Plugins, of course, wouldn't work with a web-based game like DC (unless they're like fansites where you put your scroll name in to the other site and then it reads your scroll and lets you do other things with your dragons), but would be infinitely helpful in S&R, because we wouldn't have to wait for TJ's input on whether or not something would be possible, and could even suggest ways for him to implement things ourselves. I believe it would take some work off his shoulders, at least.

 

As for the potential for cheaters... I can think of some ways that I could cheat now, without knowledge of the site's workings. Although, I've never tested these theories, because that would be cheating, so I'm not sure if they would work, or if TJ has stuff in place to prevent them.

[Lythiaren]

Well no, olympe. The Pokemon book does not say "When not under the effects of Lucky Chant or Focus Energy, Razor Leaf has x% chance to crit". It takes a lot of number-crunching, a lot of reverse-engineering (aka theorycrafting), and a lot of ingame testing to figure out underlying formulae for games unless you rip out the whole program, decompile it and study the raw code.

 

The problem is that if you give people the input and output of a program, it becomes significantly easier to figure out exactly how the program works. Once you know how the program works, it becomes very easy to locate and exploit any bugs therein. Yes, even on DC; there is no such thing as a bug-free program unless it's "Hello World".

 

EDIT@~!~: Since DC is not open-source, I fail to see why people keep asking TJ how everything works rather than making educated guesses based on observation. :|

Edited July 18, 2011 by Lythiaren

[olympe]

No, not the pokemon manual. But especially pokemon has numerous fansites which are very informative.

[~!~]

EDIT@~!~: Since DC is not open-source, I fail to see why people keep asking TJ how everything works rather than making educated guesses based on observation. :|

I know, I know. I was just pointing out that it's a thing, and that I think making DC open-source, or at least less closed that it is now, would probably lead to more positive feedback than negative.

 

Also, Nintendo doesn't blacklist people who make fansites and refuse to let them buy the games, do they? (Although, just saying, it is really irritating to see people with a box full of shiny Ho-oh...)

[thiefofhearts]

Well for starters, I like the new biomes.

 

However, I do think there are some things that can be improved upon.

 

For instance, I don't think the same egg should appear more than once in the three egg line up. It's very frustrating when 4 out of 5 caves are blocked with one egg (not that one egg is blocking all four caves, just that one type of egg per biome was taking up all 3 slots) is blocking the caves and the 5th one is empty.

 

I think things would be much better for the players if each slot contained a different egg. Even if it were all commons at least there would be more of a choice there because it's very frustrating when you have 12 different cave slots offering only 3 or 4 different eggs, it's not a far cry from the old cave - only you have extra screens to go through.

 

I actually wanted to write more but i am sleepy right now so i think i will nap. will elaborate on improvements later.

[Lythiaren]

That one comes up quite often. The thing to consider, though, is what happens at the end of the line when you only have 1-2 types left. You'd end up with the same kind of clogging eventually.

 

And for the record, several times I've managed to get the volcano into a state where it's got three different eggs but they still don't move. It makes a sad.

[Rally Vincent]

Actually, there can be one positive effect on biome blockers. Blocked biomes are unpredictable - they can stay blocked for several minutes, but they may as well have been blocked when one enters the biome, and it moves on the next refresh, showing a desirable egg. And since it is unpredictable, competion isn't as high as in the desert. Of course, this requires free time.

[siliconrose]

Who says it has to be actual numbers? What about population graphs, showing the relative frequency of various types? Even trending data might be useful (whether a breed is currently up or down).

[olympe]

Who says it has to be actual numbers? What about population graphs, showing the relative frequency of various types? Even trending data might be useful (whether a breed is currently up or down).

That's exactly what I was talking about originally.

[bluebell_rose]

ditto! yes this cinn! I have everything, including a cb of each breed. I'm only here because of the breeding

[Cinnamin Draconna]

ditto! yes this cinn! I have everything, including a cb of each breed. I'm only here because of the breeding

 

 

Once you 'finish' your scroll goals, all that's left is breeding. So when breeding has a problem, I/we notice it. Only TJ says there isn't a problem. But if we disagree and continue to say there is a problem, we get accused of inciting drama.

Edited July 18, 2011 by SockPuppet Strangler

[kitsune93]

Am I the only one not seeing a problem with breeding?

I usually have a pretty easy time getting eggs. It seems to be the same as it always was to me.

[RheaZen]

Am I the only one not seeing a problem with breeding?

I usually have a pretty easy time getting eggs. It seems to be the same as it always was to me.

I think it really depends on how occasional of a breeder you are. A person who breeds a lot has a lot more data to glean from.

[olympe]

It also depends on what you breed. If you're trying to breed pebbles (or other breeds that are underrepresented), you won't notice a thing.

[00n0b0dy]

It also depends on what you breed. If you're trying to breed pebbles (or other breeds that are underrepresented), you won't notice a thing.

That's not necessarily true. My only breeding project I've been working on much lately is my even gen geode project. I've gotten tons of CB pebbles and stones to work with, but even breeding pebble pairs I don't tend to get any eggs, geode or pebble. But pebbles are a huge blocker. Then again, bad luck does happen and I might just be having one. Which is why I'd like to have *something* that will represent the current cave-wide state of different breeds.

[Sir_Read-a-Lot]

On a different note: The breeding action says: "Breed this dragon with a (fe)male, producing up to four eggs." This seems slightly misleading, as only one egg is produced outside of holiday breeding. So maybe this should be altered?

 

Already mentioned. nevermind.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Sir_Read-a-Lot

[mlb13]

This is kinda random, but I REALLY am not fond of the egg limits. I'm new here, so can anyone tell me if there was a time before egg limits (I don't mind egg/hatchling limits) and what it was like?

[TJ09]

Who says it has to be actual numbers?  What about population graphs, showing the relative frequency of various types?  Even trending data might be useful (whether a breed is currently up or down).

Population graphs? No. Trending data I'm significantly less opposed to. Those who have been around for a while might recall that I used to do this randomly in chat.

 

Perhaps include it in semi-regular news updates.

 

And now for your weekly weather report...On Tuesday we're looking at a high of 9,000 mints, and Wednesday has a 20% chance of bees summonfails.

 

This is kinda random, but I REALLY am not fond of the egg limits. I'm new here, so can anyone tell me if there was a time before egg limits (I don't mind egg/hatchling limits) and what it was like?

Uh, well there was a time when guests could grab eggs, but that was 2007.

 

Similarly, before limits and kill limits there were users (I know of at least one) that grabbed eggs and insta-killed them until there were none left.

 

Anyways, the limits were just upped a month ago.

 

On a different note:  The breeding action says: "Breed this dragon with a (fe)male, producing up to four eggs."  This seems slightly misleading, as only one egg is produced outside of holiday breeding.  So maybe this should be altered?

 

Already mentioned.  nevermind.

This will probably be fixed eventually.