Egg Circulation

[Arkadion]

Part of what made DCave interesting and challenging was hunting for eggs. But I think the new update needs a bit of tweaking.

 

In the previous cave setup, egg grabbing was fast and energetic. You had about 150-200 people paying close attention to each egg description in hopes of getting the dragon they need. If you saw the right description, you made a mad dash for the egg.

 

From the few days the new setup has been around, this rush for eggs has gone down to the point where digging through the caves isn't the fast-paced fun it used to be. Those 150-200 people have been dispersed among 7 regions, which means it should be easier to get the egg you've been searching for. However, fewer people who are most likely going for the same egg type means the eggs they don't want just sit there. In the previous cave setup, you would have new eggs almost every 2 seconds, but now it sometimes goes up to (or over) 10 minutes without changing the queue. The same has happened for the Abandoned Pile. At its most active, it gets as active as a slow time on the previous AP.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the new organization system, I just think the way the eggs are dispensed needs work.

 

I propose that there is an auto circulate on the cave drop and AP eggs. If a cave drop egg is not picked up after 5 minutes, it is sent into a sort of storage system where it can be re-circulated after a while, or is deleted completely. This would keep the eggs in the habitats moving and prevent 3 eggs of the same species from blocking up the cave.

 

In the case of the AP, it should circulate eggs that it's displaying and eggs it isn't displaying every few minutes. If there are no eggs to swap out, it can at least re-organize the eggs to make it seem like there are more eggs.

 

The max number of drops per habitat should also be increased, or the time between drops should be decreased, since an empty habitat pretty much means less activity there and frustration for users. If one habitat empties before it's intended restock point, the habitat should be able to restock with a smaller supply.

 

This is just a proposition, I don't expect it to be implemented.

[Mysfytt]

yes I found it a bit frustrating when even though I was after a common CB it never changed from the three that were up becasue no one wanted CB nocturns (there were 3 blocking) so it never changed for ages.

and the other biomes seemed in the same predicument.

A timed rotate system might be better to move things along.

[changeling007]

If you've got a box of apples, half rotten and half good, everyone is going to take the good apples and you'll be left with a box of rotten apples.

 

Its the same with the cave and eggs.

 

Eventually the caveblockers will be the only thing left circulating, and then we're back at sqaure one. And people will complain the cave is broken and not distributing the eggs they want or some such.

 

Im not saying its a bad idea, just that it wont make thing any easier.

[purplehaze]

This has been suggested many times before and it will not work for all the reasons that Changeling007 has mentioned. It would be great for the first few minutes, but then what? The good eggs will be taken and then there will be nothing but the less desirable ones left.

[Arkadion]

Granted, this isn't a perfect solution. I couldn't cover a lot of points because I didn't have a plan for that part, or I hadn't fully considered a specific situation.

[Cir_C]

I understand how this is a good idea, it just is not a practical one.

 

 

[Fearlessjay]

If you've got a box of apples, half rotten and half good, everyone is going to take the good apples and you'll be left with a box of rotten apples.

 

Its the same with the cave and eggs.

 

Eventually the caveblockers will be the only thing left circulating, and then we're back at sqaure one. And people will complain the cave is broken and not distributing the eggs they want or some such.

 

Im not saying its a bad idea, just that it wont make thing any easier.

Yes and no one will take the rotten apples and give up on whoever provides them and in this case its DC that people will give up on.. And I don't see how cave blockers will be the only thing circulating there are billions of codes possible for eggs if that happens remove delete the codes of unwanted eggs and randomly generate a new egg.

 

I think its a good idea for the cave..

[HeatherMarie]

Yes and no one will take the rotten apples and give up on whoever provides them and in this case its DC that people will give up on.. And I don't see how cave blockers will be the only thing circulating there are billions of codes possible for eggs if that happens remove delete the codes of unwanted eggs and randomly generate a new egg.

 

I think its a good idea for the cave..

That's not really how the cave works. Unwanted eggs can't just be "deleted", because it's all about ratios. If there are, for instance, 20 "unwanted" earth/green eggs in the AP, and they sit around with no one picking them up for awhile... If they just get "deleted", the only thing that will happen will be that 20 *more* earth eggs will have to be made in order to make the ratio right.

[DarkEternity]

It's all based on ratios making this suggestion sadly impractical...

[Barbayat]

Funny, my impression is the opposite - since the split up eggs go a lot faster.

 

In the cave eggs sometimes sat for minutes and even if that happens in one biome I could take a look at another ...

 

Of course now with the return of the blocking things might be different.

[Fengari]

There are two things that can fix the 'problem' of biomes and AP being filled with unwanted eggs:

 

- a mentality change of the community, respecting the ratios: if all people would stop exclusively breeding their rares and abandoning their 'unwanteds', the ratios in the biomes would even out.

 

- a change to the ratio system. As I understand it, that would mean a serious overhaul of the game design, as in starting again from scratch. Personally, I don't see why TJ would want to do that. After all, he designed the game the way he wanted it to be, and if we don't like it that way, we don't have to play it. He's done a lot to accomodate our wishes already, but changing the whole basic idea the game is based on is a bit much, I think.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Fengari

[~!~]

There are two things that can fix the 'problem' of biomes and AP being filled with unwanted eggs:

 

- a mentality change of the community, respecting the ratios: if all people would stop exclusively breeding their rares and abandoning their 'unwanteds', the ratios in the biomes would even out.

 

- a change to the ratio system. As I understand it, that would mean a serious overhaul of the game design, as in starting again from scratch. Personally, I don't see why TJ would want to do that. After all, he designed the game the way he wanted it to be, and if we don't like it that way, we don't have to play it. He's done a lot to accomodate our wishes already, but changing the whole basic idea the game is based on is a bit much, I think.

Well, it's obvious which one you support...

 

This problem has been going on since the site started. It has gotten worse and worse as more common dragons are added. Biomes, which everybody thought would make the problem better, have actually made it worse.

 

A "mentality change" is never going to happen. There are plenty of threads in SD right now that are all about raising the less popular breeds, and they do a pretty good job of keeping the cave running smoothly. I don't think we can expect much more from the userbase.

 

I also don't think that a major overhaul of the site's internal workings would be necessary to fix the problem. All that would need to change is how the cave behaves when it generates new eggs. Perhaps different factors would need to be kept track of in order to facilitate that, but certainly nothing like starting again from scratch. (Of course, I can't see the source code of DC, so I can't know for sure how TJ has things set up, but that's my guess.)

[Fengari]

Well, it's obvious which one you support...

It is not really a matter of supporting one over the other. If TJ decides he is willing to change the ratio system to fix some of the things that keep bothering the players, I'll be among those celebrating (if it works out). I just don't see it happening.

Actually the point I was trying to make without making it is that we have to learn to live with AP blocks and cave/biome clogging, if we're not prepared to 'respect' the ratios.

 

This problem has been going on since the site started.  It has gotten worse and worse as more common dragons are added.  Biomes, which everybody thought would make the problem better, have actually made it worse.

 

I don't agree that it is worse now. At least there are now a few more breeds clogging the biomes than there were clogging the cave. So, even though it's still not the ones we want to see, we already have more choice.

And it is still very early to make definitive conclusions about how it is working now. First of all, everybody is still excited AND people just all had a lot of new egg slots to fill. I think things will calm down in a few weeks.

Second, the new system still needs some tweaking (without major changes) and TJ is doing that at the moment:

- At the very start I read he upped the number of eggs created every hour

- He made some changes to which dragon goes where, making some available in more biomes

- He re-installed the AP block system after it became clear the AP was quickly becoming huge.

 

A "mentality change" is never going to happen.  There are plenty of threads in SD right now that are all about raising the less popular breeds, and they do a pretty good job of keeping the cave running smoothly.  I don't think we can expect much more from the userbase.

I agree with you on that. I think there's about as many people trying to do something about it as people complaining about it. The big problem is the majority of players seems to not care, one way or the other.

 

I also don't think that a major overhaul of the site's internal workings would be necessary to fix the problem.  All that would need to change is how the cave behaves when it generates new eggs.  Perhaps different factors would need to be kept track of in order to facilitate that, but certainly nothing like starting again from scratch.  (Of course, I can't see the source code of DC, so I can't know for sure how TJ has things set up, but that's my guess.)

This I actually got from a conversation I had with someone who had worked out a detailed suggestion about how the ratios should work, and had discussed this with TJ.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh attitudes might change. I have just decided to love waterwalkers. And I know someone else who has decided that balloons are fun.

 

I am locked, but when I'm not....

Edited June 13, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[Fearlessjay]

Oh attitudes might change. I have just decided to love waterwalkers. And I know someone else who has decided that balloons are fun.

 

I am locked, but when I'm not....

Well a few people wont change anything you'll need to convince half the player base to do this, and not care for their precious rares, to start fixing the ratio

[Fuzzbucket]

Well a few people wont change anything you'll need to convince half the player base to do this, and not care for their precious rares, to start fixing the ratio

Yes - but - well, you never know

[olympe]

Well, my first thoughts were along the same line as the OP's, but I quickly realized that things aren't as bleak as it seemed on first glance.

 

First of all, if one biome is locked with eggs I don't want, I can always go look at another biome, or have a look at the AP.

 

Second, we have many more egg slots available. (Okay, not quite so many for newer players, but, well, they'll get there. Eventually.) Which means that I can easily accomodate one or two eggs I don't actually want all that much and, with a little luck, grab the next egg in the queue (because competition isn't quite as bad as it used to be).

 

Third, with the new limits (no being locked with 4 hatchlings and nothing but), we can raise eggs so much faster - in fact, we can grab a new set of eggs (however our limit is set) every two days - if we have enough reds to incubate them all. (Well, I do have enough reds...)

 

Fourth, we can avoid breeding unwanted commons with our rare breeding attempts by choosing rare mates, making it less likely the AP will be blocked - hopefully.

 

So, yes, despite the fact that many biomes seem to be locked with just one (or two) breeds at a time, I'm quite happy with the changes. And I just might make it a point to catch some more lovely neos and canopies...

[funky3000]

Oh, hi RK, cool to see you here too. For those that wonder, I know him on another forum.

 

That's not really how the cave works. Unwanted eggs can't just be "deleted", because it's all about ratios. If there are, for instance, 20 "unwanted" earth/green eggs in the AP, and they sit around with no one picking them up for awhile... If they just get "deleted", the only thing that will happen will be that 20 *more* earth eggs will have to be made in order to make the ratio right.

 

Maybe it could change into a different egg after like maybe a minute or two of sitting there. It's certainly very boring to wait for really unwanted eggs to go, when it can take around 5 minutes for just one to go. And then be replaced by another. This would keep the regions active and also not get rid of the eggs' codes. It would probably also change to something that keeps ratios roughly the same, while not being the same egg it was.

[~!~]

This I actually got from a conversation I had with someone who had worked out a detailed suggestion about how the ratios should work, and had discussed this with TJ.

If this was Fiona Bluefire, she sent me the same thing (and told everybody who happened to be reading the thread at the time that she was doing it, so you don't need to keep her identity a secret). Most of what she proposed seemed viable without changes any bigger than the ones that were just added, or the fixes TJ made when ratios were so out of whack the game was practically unplayable, a few months back. (Perhaps longer than that... I forget exactly which releases were the problem ones.) The stuff that wasn't didn't really strike me as necessary... or at least, I thought there were other, more feasible fixes that could be put into place.

 

However, if you're talking about somebody else's plan, I guess there's nothing I can say to counter this, knowing nothing about the details. Except perhaps, "hurry up."

[KageSora]

Maybe it could change into a different egg after like maybe a minute or two of sitting there. It's certainly very boring to wait for really unwanted eggs to go, when it can take around 5 minutes for just one to go. And then be replaced by another. This would keep the regions active and also not get rid of the eggs' codes. It would probably also change to something that keeps ratios roughly the same, while not being the same egg it was.

That might potentially work with CB eggs, but a lot of those eggs on the AP are bred eggs that have long, messy, inbred lineages. That wouldn't work--you can't have a dragon just randomly change into something that neither of it's parents are (well, aside from vamps, but that's a special case).

[funky3000]

I was directing it mainly at CBs. Abandoned eggs will remain untouched.

[olympe]

Changing eggs into something different, just like that? *thinks hard* Wasn't there a couple of dragon concepts around that had the idea that these dragons reproduced by "taking over" the eggs of other dragons? (Serpent Queen and False Dragon, maybe?) Or was that just another option discussed during the dozens of pages in the original thread?

 

I also see that the false dragon has been removed from the completed list for some reason. (Some sprites are still visible in the false dragon thread, though - especially on the last few pages.)

[Arkadion]

Well considering this probably won't work, they could always make the common eggs more desirable.

 

Most users don't have a reason to pick up a balloon, but if the balloon had some special quality about it, be that a BSA or hidden item, then more of them would get picked up while keeping the ratios the same.

 

I honestly didn't think much about purples until they got the BSA, I did want one, but I didn't have much of a reason to pick one up, other than they looked cool.

[Fuzzbucket]

I am going to do a balloon/waterwalker lineage. It will be beautiful.

 

Just sayin'.

[~!~]

I am going to do a balloon/waterwalker lineage. It will be beautiful.

 

Just sayin'.

You can repeat how much you love these dragons as many times as you want, but until they are snatched from the cave with the same regularity as Whites, Nebulas, etc., you're not going to make anybody stop complaining.