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How should lineages work?  

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I like the 1-year waiting idea. Not too much waiting, not too soon. I see it more like a reward for have been playing for so long =P

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Bleh, skinst is right, let's hammer out the detail first, worry about politics afterward.

 

Can we all agree on the following?

 

Based (at least partially) on time

Holidays, Jokes, and unbreedables exempt

Not Automatic

Unlimited per scroll

 

We need to discuss:

 

Exact methodology (Action, Potion use, etc.)

Success Rate (Action and Potion if applicable)

Cool-down (if any)

Eligibility (How long we have to wait, and if that applies with potions)

I agree on those points.

 

 

As for things still to agree on...

 

 

While I'd prefer time-based only, there are quite a few people who want a potion option, so I'm in favor of a combination of time-based and potion-based. You automatically obtain the option to ascend after a certain amount of time and you have the option of using a potion that is found through some method--perhaps through the Search feature should that be implemented or simply in such a way as the Easter event last year or the ToT event were done.

 

For a potion, perhaps the inventory issue could be solved by a badge at the top of your scroll with a little number by it, said number indicating the number of potions you currently have? It's unobtrusive and simple... Well, maybe not to code?

 

A potion could perhaps guarantee an ascension, or it could bypass a cooldown, or if we were to impose a limit similar to freezing the potion could bypass that limit, or perhaps it could bypass or reduce the time requirement?

 

I think that the success rate needs to be very high. At least 75%. A cool-down, I'd say a week or two would be good.

 

Like I said, I'd like at least 3 months for the minimum time, 6 months would be even better, and I'd prefer 1 year. Some people have expressed dislike over one year, though, feeling it's far too long.

Edited by KageSora

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Honestly I don't want to see an inventory system on DC.... I would prefer it just being time.

A lot of us like the idea of Search, and a dragon Hoard. It would work kinda like our Easter baskets and Halloween jack-o-lanterns, except the stuff would be found by clicking the "Search" action on our adult dragons. The idea of Ascension potions has been part of the idea for Search and Hoards. Meaning, if Search and Hoard never happens, we may not get Ascension potions either. But! I personally will enjoy Search, Hoard and Ascension potions, if they happen.

 

If you don't like the idea, it will be totally optional, so just don't use it. We've had this debate already in the thread though. No one is suggesting that the only way for dragons to ascend is by potions. Some of us want the option though. Like. A lot.

 

Re: Limits and etc:

I personally don't think a year is that long, but I've been playing a long time, and I have tons of dragons over a year old. I don't think it should be as short as 3 months though. After only 3 months of playing most people are really still learning the subtleties of the game. I think 6 months is the minimum that makes sense. People who have played for that long have a good amount of adult dragons, and have participated in usually at least one event.

 

I'd kind of like a limit similar to the freeze limit, with adjustments for badge level. Let's say, 12 in a two week period for no badge (though they're unlikely to have any old enough to ascend if we use my thinking above); 15 for a bronze badge; 18 for a silver badge; and 21 for a gold badge. These are the same numbers for total growing dragons on a scroll once the new limits are in place.

 

Cooldown with the above ideas aren't really applicable. As with kills and freezing, you get your opportunity back as time marches.

 

Success rates and potions: I'd just as soon have 100% success rate if your dragon is old enough to ascend. They've stood the test of time, run the race, gathered the wisdom. They're ready. If we do that then, the potion's effect could be to ascend a dragon that isn't old enough yet, or to be able to ascend another dragon even though we're at our scroll limit. Either or both of those should work, in my opinion. As for the potions, I agree they should be rare.

 

And I agree that Holidays, Prize dragons, unbreedables and dinos shouldn't ascend. Neither should frozen hatchlings. (that was suggested earlier)

Edited by Fiona BlueFire

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It seems pretty much agreed upon that Age would be the main factor, and probably the first thing to be introduced. It's unknown when we'll get Search/Hoarding or whether we'll get it at all, so we can leave the Potions option for the future. But yes, rare potions.

 

I think 6 months is plenty, but being I seem outnumbered I'll just suggest 1 year as the maximum.

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Here's a suggestion:

 

In horse showing, there's an award for "Produce of Dam/Get of Sire," where the horse entered in the class doesn't actually appear in the ring: their children do. Same as for a Friesian stallion that gets approved into the FPS registry on his offspring; say enough of his sons and grandsons get approved, he gets grandfathered in (quite literally). The reasoning is, HansBrinker 40-11 and his son DutchBoy 3.14 are approved, so their father/grampa Heineken gets approved.

 

Say a given dragon's descendants reach a certain point — say, 100 generations out, across however many scrolls — and then Ascension is automatic for the originating dragons. Just one morning, DCer XYZ wakes up, logs on, and — "WHOA, my Dragon ascended!!!"

I think this would be a fair mechanism and it would encourage DCers to be active and breed/trade/connect/join lineages. The limitation can be something like inbred generations don't count, you have to step away from the earlier generations in order to get it. No limit on how many of your dragons can Ascend.

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Sorry Xoco, but in that way you are forcing people to breed to get something ascended. If I don't like to breed, for whatever reason, I won't be able to ascend my dragons. That's not fair.

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I have to agree with PinkyHedgehog. It's also giving the message that inbreeding is bad, when, in the game, it's not. I can also see people spam breeding just for this and more people here creating topics for AP backlog as a result. I'd also rather have a choice to ascend and not have it be an auto thing that just happens. I may want to have a lineage from a certain pair, but not want to ascend them. By your method, they would auto-ascend on their own just because I wanted to do a lineage with them. owo

 

There were a bunch of people in the thread earlier who were for 3-6 months as a reasonable option, myself included. Why did we suddenly jump back to a year? o.o

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No....just no, it has absolutely nothing to do with ascendence, and makes no sense in context for one. Secondly it forces people to play a certain way to complete their scrolls, which is generally frowned upon. In any case, it has nothing to do with what I do, it's what the recipients of my dragon's offspring do, unless you want to raise 100 gens of dragons on your scroll to get 1 ascended. Even then it would take 100 weeks minimum which is almost two years. Too many problems, no.

 

As for the potions, I agree with Rhea, for now we have no search function, and do not know if we'll ever have a search function, so until then let's work with what we have and get that hashed out.

 

Time:

 

6 months to a year sounds good, any other opinions on that matter?

 

EDIT: Ninja'd by Socky

 

I'd actually prefer it to be at least 6 months, simply because it makes the action more rewarding yet isn't incredibly long. However with a longer wait time the success rate should be higher, if it's gonna go down to 3 I think the success rate should be significantly lower

Edited by Sceptile100

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What if that person doesn't want those dragons to ascend?

 

Oh wait there's a whole new page. Uh. Hm.

 

In regards to time, I'm in favor of 6 months, but if it must be more 8 sounds good.

/likes the number 8

Edited by RheaZen

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Perhaps it's time for a new poll, I'll go PM Sock

 

The categories seem to be

 

0-3 months

3-6 months

6-12 months

12+ months

 

I'm in support of 6 months or more, just seems most logical to me

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And yes, metallics (and other rares, minus holidays naturally) should be allowed to have ascended forms--why would they not?

In the original thread, both ascended silvers and golds were in the progress of being made, just to clarify. smile.gif

 

I think this would be a fair mechanism and it would encourage DCers to be active and breed/trade/connect/join lineages. The limitation can be something like inbred generations don't count, you have to step away from the earlier generations in order to get it. No limit on how many of your dragons can Ascend.

 

It isn't fair at all. This method will only allow a very small number of players to ascend. And the act isn't supposed to be so rare and more like a natural evolutionary process in the dragon's lifespan.

 

Now, to address the points...

 

 

Exact methodology (Action, Potion use, etc.) - I am personally for both the potion and time based ascensions.

Success Rate (Action and Potion if applicable) - From my understanding, 100%.

Cool-down (if any) - Wouldn't this only apply to a BSA? :S

Eligibility (How long we have to wait, and if that applies with potions) - I think 3 months works for me. smile.gif

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Shouldn't you PM the OP to PM the mod? Otherwise it's sorta hijacking the thread. Just to be polite ._.

 

But yes, a vote sounds good.

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True, true, a Poll seems necessary,

 

Luckily Socky's box was full, will PM the OP

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It seems pretty much agreed upon that Age would be the main factor, and probably the first thing to be introduced. It's unknown when we'll get Search/Hoarding or whether we'll get it at all, so we can leave the Potions option for the future. But yes, rare potions.

 

I think 6 months is plenty, but being I seem outnumbered I'll just suggest 1 year as the maximum.

This is the reason I am against Potions, the idea is good but if it doesn't get added we would be building on nothing, yes?

 

Other than that, the Potion thing would be good if its the way Fiona described it! (Could I possibly get a link to that thread? I can't find it. sad.gif )

 

I only said a year because I think birthdays are awesome. xd.png

Thinking about it now, (just was thinking about GoNs and the people who have waited a year for just one) a year does seem a bit much, I'd see 3-6 months working out better. o3o

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My Thoughts:

Exact methodology (Action, Potion use, etc.)

I’d say let’s just start with age based. It’s the most simple- it will be easiest to code and easiest to explain, meaning TJ is more likely to start with it. It also it the most popular in the poll, which suggests majority support. Plus, it doesn’t force you to play a certain way- you don’t need to breed x dragons, you don’t need to spend time searching. You just need to keep dragons on your scroll.

 

Later, I would like to have the option to get a potion, because I think it would add alternative to those who don’t want to wait, and variety is the spice of life. I would like it to either come with the search feature if/when that happens, although I would also like it to appear randomly in the cave via the same mechanism of the Festival of Eggs. This means that people with slow connections wouldn’t really suffer

 

Success Rate (Action and Potion if applicable)

 

This is what I would suggest:

Age- slight failure rate (say 5%). People could attempt again after x period of time, which should be short as well (less than a month). I say this because I got the sense that Ascension involved some sort of rite, so it makes sense that there could be a failure rate. I wouldn’t be opposed to no failure, however.

Potion- No fail rate. If you have to find a rare, mystical potion, you’d hope that it was powerful enough not to fail.

Cool-down (if any)

 

Less than a month per dragon, in my opinion.

 

I would prefer if there was no limit to how many dragons you could ascend, and I think limits should be no less than 20 per month if they do exist. And no limits on number per breed, definitely.

 

Eligibility (How long we have to wait, and if that applies with potions)

 

Less than six months, I think. A year is way too long, IMO, but I think something like four months would be a good time to wait (its 16 times as long as the hatchling stage lasts. In comparison, if there was a ‘super adult’ stage for humans, and childhood lasted until you were thirteen, you would need to be 208 to reach ‘super adult’ stage.) After this period of time, the ascension option would become available, with possible chance of failure, but also a chance to try again. However, your dragon should not automatically ascend.

 

And I don’t think there search feature should have a time limit on it; no matter if your dragon reached maturity three years ago or yesterday, it should be able to use it.

 

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Say a given dragon's descendants reach a certain point — say, 100 generations out, across however many scrolls — and then Ascension is automatic for the originating dragons. Just one morning, DCer XYZ wakes up, logs on, and — "WHOA, my Dragon ascended!!!"

I think this would be a fair mechanism and it would encourage DCers to be active and breed/trade/connect/join lineages. The limitation can be something like inbred generations don't count, you have to step away from the earlier generations in order to get it. No limit on how many of your dragons can Ascend.

No. No no no no no.

 

What if I want to ascend a dragon that hasn't bred a lot? Or what if I'm just no good at breeding a lot, and don't care much for lineages? What if I have a dragon that has a lot of decedents but I don't want it to ascend?

 

A suggestion like this DEFINITELY falls under "forcing others into a certain playstyle" if they want to have an ascended dragon. And automatic ascension is a bad idea, because like I said what if the person doesn't want any ascended dragons, or doesn't want that particular one to ascend?

 

I would hate to be forced into a playstyle that I don't want, just to complete my scroll--and what if all my dragons' decedents end up on scrolls that don't breed? Too much work, and as somebody else said inbreeding isn't bad according to the game--only users determine if inbreeding is bad, and what if I happen to like inbred dragons?

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Here's a suggestion:

 

In horse showing, there's an award for "Produce of Dam/Get of Sire," where the horse entered in the class doesn't actually appear in the ring: their children do. Same as for a Friesian stallion that gets approved into the FPS registry on his offspring; say enough of his sons and grandsons get approved, he gets grandfathered in (quite literally). The reasoning is, HansBrinker 40-11 and his son DutchBoy 3.14 are approved, so their father/grampa Heineken gets approved.

 

Say a given dragon's descendants reach a certain point — say, 100 generations out, across however many scrolls — and then Ascension is automatic for the originating dragons. Just one morning, DCer XYZ wakes up, logs on, and — "WHOA, my Dragon ascended!!!"

I think this would be a fair mechanism and it would encourage DCers to be active and breed/trade/connect/join lineages. The limitation can be something like inbred generations don't count, you have to step away from the earlier generations in order to get it. No limit on how many of your dragons can Ascend.

I don't think it should be automatic. And I do think a year is the right time frame. But 100 generations - how many dragons are there NOW that would qualify ?? I think breeding would be a tough one. Very few would qualify. Though it would maybe give added value to caveblockers; people who want ascended dragons and need to breed clean to get them will snap up ANY caveborn to breed and get a clean line ? There'd be a LOT more staircases, too biggrin.gif

 

Don't forget, too, that (I think) some breeds will never ascend if their creator says no. They must have that right.

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Okay, let's see. My preferences...

Exact methodology (Action, Potion use, etc.) - Let's start with the basic age, but add the potion as soon as the search/hoarding feature is available or make the potions (tomes, artifacts...) available by randomly dropping like the easter eggs. (Please no potions dropped in the cave!)

Success Rate (Action and Potion if applicable) - I prefer 100% for both. Especially the potion. Although I would be okay with either a scroll-wide limit (at least as high as the freezing limits) or a success rate of no less than 50%.

Cool-down (if any) - If we go the way of the failure chance, I think a limit of 4 weeks would be perfect. After all, if the rite goes wrong, the dragon will need time to prepare again, heal from its wounds/trauma/whatever, gather the courage again or whatever.

Eligibility (How long we have to wait, and if that applies with potions) - 3 months is way too short for my liking. 6 to 12 months would be my preference, although I can see how people wouldn't want to wait a whole year. So, probably 6 months.

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If Ascension is meant to be somewhat rare, I propose this:

 

An adult dragon must be at least 6 months of age before it can ascend. This gives a challenge to, but does not completely alienate, newer players.

 

I also feel that Ascension should have a cooldown. Let's say two weeks before you can ascend another dragon. That's 26 dragons in a year.

 

However, if the potions are implemented, you could bypass the cooldown with them.

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My view (with compromises already built in smile.gif ):

 

Methodology:

Action appears after a certain age.

No 100% success rate.

Scroll limit only for successful ascensions, so you can try again for each fail. Cooldown per dragon after a fail.

Potions could be added to bypass any of the criteria: (preferably through search action so those who don't like the potions/inventory idea can just ignore it)

- potion to ascend before reaching age

- potion to guarantee success

- potion for an ascension above the limit

- potion to bypass cooldown after fail.

 

Age:

As I would see this as an incentive/rare for long-time players who have already collected all there is to collect, I would prefer a year. 3 months seems really short (I've been playing for 4 months now and still have a lot of sprites I need to get). I would say a minimum of 6 months, to compromise with more impatient people smile.gif

 

Success Rate:

Here too, I would like a relatively low success rate (certainly if potions are available to bypass that), but I realise most people want it to be easier so what about 67% (two out of three)

 

Limit: (only for successful ascensions!)

No trophy: 3 per week

Bronze trophy: 4 per week

Silver trophy: 5 per week

Gold trophy: 6 per week

If my calculations are anywhere near accurate, that would mean approximately 20% of the dragons you could catch in a year could be ascended. But I'm not good at math...

 

Cooldown

After a failed attempt, the dragon has to wait a week before trying again.

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Low success rate what, no. /raises hand for 100%

 

If only we could take more than one poll at a time...

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My view (with compromises already built in smile.gif ):

 

Methodology:

Action appears after a certain age.

No 100% success rate.

Scroll limit only for successful ascensions, so you can try again for each fail. Cooldown per dragon after a fail.

Potions could be added to bypass any of the criteria: (preferably through search action so those who don't like the potions/inventory idea can just ignore it)

- potion to ascend before reaching age

- potion to guarantee success

- potion for an ascension above the limit

- potion to bypass cooldown after fail.

 

Age:

As I would see this as an incentive/rare for long-time players who have already collected all there is to collect, I would prefer a year. 3 months seems really short (I've been playing for 4 months now and still have a lot of sprites I need to get). I would say a minimum of 6 months, to compromise with more impatient people smile.gif

 

Success Rate:

Here too, I would like a relatively low success rate (certainly if potions are available to bypass that), but I realise most people want it to be easier so what about 67% (two out of three)

 

Limit: (only for successful ascensions!)

No trophy: 3 per week

Bronze trophy: 4 per week

Silver trophy: 5 per week

Gold trophy: 6 per week

If my calculations are anywhere near accurate, that would mean approximately 20% of the dragons you could catch in a year could be ascended. But I'm not good at math...

 

Cooldown

After a failed attempt, the dragon has to wait a week before trying again.

I think that the benefits of the potion should be switched with the action itself. And to give some perspective, it mighht make more sense for it to be a delayed action with it is going to have a cooldown. 6 month requirment seems way too long.

 

Example: A new 3 month old dragon has just gain the action to ascend. Over a 1 month period after using your dragon will try and enlighten itself. Exactly after a month has passed, it then either fails to complete is ascendtion or it succeeds. Using this idea, the action itself becomes a cooldown at the sametime, and then you can add in all the other ratios and limits.

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I would say 6 months sounds like a good time to have a dragon to ascend for me too.

 

The way I would have it work, however, is at six months, have a moderate success rate (Around 40%-maybe?) and after each fail, have the success rate increase 5%. So if you had a two week cooldown, and a 40% original success rate, everyone would have a 100% success rate at 1 year. Also, I wouldn't put any limit on the # of dragons you could ascend. This would make them a little bit challenging to get, but not too challenging.

 

If you had a potion, however, I think it should bump the success rate to 100% or a least a considerable amount.

Edited by lilraindrop

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I would say 6 months sounds like a good time to have a dragon to ascend for me too.

 

The way I would have it work, however, is at six months, have a moderate success rate (Around 40%-maybe?) and after each fail, have the success rate increase 5%. So if you had a two week cooldown, and a 40% original success rate, everyone would have a 100% success rate at 1 year. Also, I wouldn't put any limit on the # of dragons you could ascend. This would make them a little bit challenging to get, but not too challenging.

 

If you had a potion, however, I think it should bump the success rate to 100% or a least a considerable amount.

Only that 6 months is half a year. Do you know how long that takes?

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Only that 6 months is half a year. Do you know how long that takes?

Yeah, but most people would have ascended before that, with the chances being at 40% or above the entire time- more than 1/2 of people trying would have one within a month. Also, if the cooldown is shorter, like 1 week, it would only take 3 months to reach the full 100.

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