Question about a trade?

[tjekan]

Just because everyone asks for a CB gold or a 2nd-gen shimmerscale, doesn't mean they're all getting it. :-) It's very common for people to over-ask in the trade threads, either because they're overvaluing their hand or just because they're cutting and pasting their list of wishes which includes CB metals (I've done this more than once.)

 

There was a window of time a while back when CB metals were dropping like candy and shimmerscales were still really scarce, when indeed, even a poorly lineaged shimmer was drawing multiple CB metal offers. That time is pretty much gone, though. :-)

Edited May 2, 2013 by tjekan

[quitter]

What are CB blusangs worth?

The value of CB blusangs seems to have been steadily climbing over the months. I would say 1 CB blusang is worth appoximately 1.5 2nd gen metals...

[quitter]

What's a 4th gen Stairstep Shimmer worth?

Depending on the lineage, I would say a 4th gen shimmer can be worth anywhere from 1 CB silver to 1 CB gold (AKA 2 CB silvers).

[girlgamerjen]

Stairstep lineages, unless they are Metallics or prizes aren't worth anything right now. Even metallics don't go for much these days. But yes, that's better then fifth or seventh gen. Generally, when even gens are in question the longer the better. When stairsteps or spirals are in question, the shorter the better.

funny that it seems even-gen shimmers cant get you ANYTHING in comparison.

[KishaRa]

funny that it seems even-gen shimmers cant get you ANYTHING in comparison.

I guess that's because people can't breed a mate for it and find stairs/spirals easier to deal with.

[DarkEternity]

funny that it seems even-gen shimmers cant get you ANYTHING in comparison.

... You can't make chequers with them. Furthermore, they are utterly useless trade fodder.

[skauble]

There was a window of time a while back when CB metals were dropping like candy and shimmerscales were still really scarce, when indeed, even a poorly lineaged shimmer was drawing multiple CB metal offers. That time is pretty much gone, though. :-)

Long post inspired by tjekan's comment t is super, incredibly long, but since the question with prize offspring is going to come up more and more, I wanted to offer a more thorough opinion. If you get all the way through it, kudos to you.

 

Sometimes the players don't take temporary value into account. Usually that changes after a while, but it's quicker with some breeds than with others. Which is too bad, because I think that it's one of the most important aspects of trading. If you're trading for something you need/love, it can be worth almost any price. But if you're looking for a dragon that's going to, in some part, be an investment, then it's really important to be realistic about long term value.

 

It's like during a new release, people will ask a high price for new eggs and can often get them. And there are very logical reasons for people to offer on those trades - a. some people can't seem to catch them in the rush, b. it's often convenient for someone who can "afford" the inflated price, c. the rarity of the egg has not been determined and there's always a fear that it will be revealed as rare rather quickly and they'll miss out because of skyrocketing demand.

 

But a less logical reason is the idea that the dragon will definitely remain that valuable and so their offspring will be very valuable. Which is sometimes, but very rarely, the case. Within a few days the price for the new general release eggs drops considerably, but you'll still find some people demanding things like CB Silvers - which they most likely won't get.

 

This is even more pronounced with prize dragons because there's no other way to get them except from other players. That shoots up their price and, for a certain window of time, the offspring will generally be valuable enough to recoup what was traded for the egg. But you have to move quickly to catch that because it's often a product of a. panic that the eggs will never be more widely available, b. other folks wanting in on that lucrative trading period, c. the understandable desire to have something rare and limited.

 

This fades, too, although it lasts longer than with newly released eggs. Of course, if you can get in on a lower gen then they'll always retain a certain amount of value. But getting them early comes with a price - the first ones spread rather quickly - supply is low, demand is high, and the balancing of the ratios results in a huge amount of successful breeding. Pretty soon, the pairing has spread enough to lower it's value some even when other prize dragon eggs are trading for high prices.

 

So, often the pairings that hold their value the most are bred much, much later and, ironically enough, often with the most common of dragons. Because people often tend to want pairings with popular dragons in the beginning, so there end up being a lot of them bred by various CB prizes. The ultra-commons often get requested much later when the ratios have balance out, and then those prize eggs are harder to breed and thus more difficult to over-breed. It's kind of like how metals with common mates have become more and more sought after. Although I think that people are becoming more aware of this and trying for common mates earlier.

 

Another thing that affects value, IME, is the CB it comes from. Some prizes' offspring retain a higher value if they have bred less prize eggs, their lines haven't been bred as much/were more difficult to breed, or are just perceived to have more rarity even if that doesn't remain the case.

 

So prize dragons can be very difficult to evaluate, but I would recommend these questions as a starting point besides relying just on things like gen, pairing, and color:

 

-Are you trading stair-step, spiral, or even gen (If SS or spiral, how many breeds are in the lineage, if even gen, what is the gen and what are the other dragons in it - coherent patterns and those easier to continue will likely be worth more)?

 

- How long has that breed of Prizes been available?

 

- How many of the CB Prizes from the year of your line's CB release were actively bred/are still actively breeding?

 

- How widespread are the offspring of that prize breed (Tinsels, Shimmers, whatever's next)?

 

- How widespread are the offspring of the CB prize dragon in question?

 

- How widespread is the pairing (from all prize dragons of the type you're offering)?

 

- How many people have an egg from the pairing from the CB your dragon is from (you can check that by starting at the CB prize dragons progeny page)?

 

- How many people have the same gen of that pairing as the one you're trading (that's generally more important when trading lower gens)?

 

- How large is the pool of perspective traders who can continue the lineage you're trading (is the mate a rare, if a Holiday what year was the release, etc.)?

 

- How successful has prize breeding been recently (for instance, the price of Tinsels went up some during the Tinsel drought last year)?

 

- What is the general availability of what you're asking for? For instance, during the metal boom, asking for multiple CB metals was likely to be more successful then asking for them when their isn't a boom, even if your egg is equally as rare as one offered when the boom was going on.

 

- Has the prize dragon breed you're trading been discontinued? It may not be happening now, but look for low gen Tinsel eggs to rise in price in the future as CB prize owners leave the game, more players with low gens leave the game, etc.

 

Also, remember that it's not really about what gen you have that the trader will necessarily focus on, but what gen they can breed with their dragon - which will be two higher than yours.

 

So there's a time period when someone can ask "What's a ___ gen prize dragon egg worth", and people can give a general estimate. But as time goes by that's going to be less and less true without getting more and more info about the pairing. That's the case with Tinsels now, and fast becoming the case with Shimmers.

 

So I would suggest checking out as much as you can about your egg before trying to trade it, instead of just trying to trade it on gen alone, because you're more likely to get a good trade in a smaller amount of time. But if you do ask here, I'd say that the more info you provide, the more specific folks can be with their estimates.

[KishaRa]

I'd be interested to know if a checker like this one had any trade value.

[girlgamerjen]

... You can't make chequers with them. Furthermore, they are utterly useless trade fodder.

yet, people manage to make checkers, or at least, basically checkers out of them.

[Riverwillows]

I'll confess...I see a even gen shimmer, or a shimmer with haphazard breeding, and I think, OMG what the HELL did they do to that gorgeous egg?

 

It's a total turn off for me.

 

I have several regular even gens, but prize dragon even gens....I dunno. Just makes me flinch for some reason.

[tjekan]

I'd be interested to know if a checker like this one had any trade value.

It's lovely, but checkers with holiday dragons are a hard sell. With each user only allowed to have a maximum of two sweetlings total, you'll have a hard time finding another player who owns (or ever is going to own) the appropriate sweetling checker to breed it to, and most people who collect checkers do so because they like breeding them.

 

If someday TJ were to lift the two-dragon restriction on past holiday dragons, the value of checkers like that would skyrocket, but for now, I wouldn't bet on finding much of a trade for it. You never know, though!

Edited May 2, 2013 by tjekan

[RMS]

I'm thinking of trading a 3rd gen or 2nd gen Shimmer egg for red and pink BSA hatchlings. What would be a reasonable number to ask for?

 

Edit: It wouldn't have to be all at once.

 

Edit x2: Actually, I'm not even sure if that's necessary. It's been a while since I've seen a red in the cave; I'm not sure how rare they are right now.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Noxion

[skauble]

I'm thinking of trading a 3rd gen or 2nd gen Shimmer egg for red and pink BSA hatchlings. What would be a reasonable number to ask for?

 

Edit: It wouldn't have to be all at once.

 

Edit x2: Actually, I'm not even sure if that's necessary. It's been a while since I've seen a red in the cave; I'm not sure how rare they are right now.

Reds and Pinks are both pretty common right now. Honestly, for a 2nd gen Shimmer you can ask for a ton of those if you're willing to give a reasonably time line for collection. If I saw someone asked for 100 of them I'd probably go ahead and offer to do that for the trade.

 

I think a lot of it depends on what your timetable is and what trophy level a person is at - also figuring in the fact that we may very well be getting a 2 breed release on the first Sunday of every month.

 

But I think that if you let people bid for a set amount of time and you keep an update of what the highest bid is, then you'd probably get a really surprisingly large number offered.

[DarkEternity]

yet, people manage to make checkers, or at least, basically checkers out of them.

That's not a chequer. I would not trade for that. The only chequers (still imperfect but all the 2nd gens in the pattern started with CB tinsels) are the amazing ones that Chandler87 - I believe - managed to breed. The perfectionist winces in me when I see such lineages. They can never be sustained for long.

 

Evaluation of worth:

-Are you trading stair-step, spiral, or even gen (If SS or spiral, how many breeds are in the lineage, if even gen, what is the gen and what are the other dragons in it - coherent patterns and those easier to continue will likely be worth more)?

Steps and spirals I'd say are more likely to be worth more. You MUST have pure one breed x pure another breed. Any interruption drops value very significantly.

Even Gen: worth much less. Unless the chequer is pure awesome. The more regular, the better. The best ones, in my opinion, are: near perfect chequers with a metal replacing the shimmer/tinsel down the edge.

 

How long has that breed of Prizes been available?

Newer ones, e.g. Shimmers have a value hike because they are fads.

 

How many of the CB Prizes from the year of your line's CB release were actively bred/are still actively breeding?

e.g. 2011 Tinsels are worth more than 2010's batch of tinsels due to availability and winner experiences/attitudes/commitments/activity

 

How widespread are the offspring of that prize breed (Tinsels, Shimmers, whatever's next)?

same as how long they've been around, basically.

How widespread are the offspring of the CB prize dragon in question?

Skauble is talking mostly about booo and Anzu. In the former's case, the owner's scroll was burnt so basically one actively bred 2nd gen was in existence. The owner of that 2nd gen demanded things such as 5xCB metals BEFORE the metal boom. In the case of Anzu, the owner did not accept egg requests.

 

How widespread is the pairing (from all prize dragons of the type you're offering)?

Holidays and rares are always easier to breed prizes from. Therefore, individual offspring are worth less, but they breed more so you perhaps recoup the losses. Things such as breeding the dragon with frill/Alt sweet etc. anything that is 'rare' may hike the value a little. But it might also be difficult to continue, so the value might drop a little. In tinsels, the most popular pairings are black, stripe, white or shadowwalker, hence they are everywhere and worth very little unless they are low in gen.

 

How many people have an egg from the pairing from the CB your dragon is from (you can check that by starting at the CB prize dragons progeny page)

This is the same as the above answer. More people means more lines generated, meaning more availability.

 

How many people have the same gen of that pairing as the one you're trading (that's generally more important when trading lower gens)?

That's the same as the widespread question, essentially.

 

How large is the pool of perspective traders who can continue the lineage you're trading (is the mate a rare, if a Holiday what year was the release, etc.)?

Add the consideration that holidays ONLY produce the mate's species so they also generate more eggs.

 

How successful has prize breeding been recently (for instance, the price of Tinsels went up some during the Tinsel drought last year)?

Yup.

 

What is the general availability of what you're asking for? For instance, during the metal boom, asking for multiple CB metals was likely to be more successful then asking for them when their isn't a boom, even if your egg is equally as rare as one offered when the boom was going on.

Yup, and even if CB metals are rather common, they are still the most 'desired' dragon if you know what I mean. Their value does not tend to drop a lot.

 

Has the prize dragon breed you're trading been discontinued? It may not be happening now, but look for low gen Tinsel eggs to rise in price in the future as CB prize owners leave the game, more players with low gens leave the game, etc.

Yup.

 

I'm thinking of trading a 3rd gen or 2nd gen Shimmer egg for red and pink BSA hatchlings. What would be a reasonable number to ask for?

You can ask whatever you want for a 2nd gen shimmer. Probably anything between 100-300.

3rd gen. I don't know. Personally, I'd ask for about 40.

[Loveless3173]

Hi, I recently got a proposition and I need to ask... Is a(1) Chicken worth 2 CB Tsunami's?

 

Also, Approx. what are two RED Dorsal's worth?

Edited May 3, 2013 by Loveless3173

[Ivyeth]

What could be worth 2nd gen Gold egg from common or from valentine?

[Riverwillows]

Why can't I trade THIS? Been trying all night. All I'm asking for is one CB metal. That's it.

 

 

 

[eritated]

Why can't I trade THIS? Been trying all night. All I'm asking for is one CB metal. That's it.

 

Shimmer value has seemed to drop significantly. At this point, a CB metal is probably too much for a 5th gen. /: I've even been having trouble trading off 4th gens...

[BlueEyesWhiteDragon]

I am wondering about how much 2nd and 3rd gen metals are compared in terms of trade when it comes to other rares?

 

Taking into account that the other rares are not bred (except for the alts which would be at 2nd gen), here is a list:

 

Alternative Black Dragon

Alternative Vine Dragon

Blusang Lindwurm

Cheese Dragon

Chickens

Dinos

Golden Wyvern

Ice Dragon

Magma Dragon

Paper Dragon

Thunder Dragon

Prize Dragons Tinsels/Shimmers gen number (I know someone posted above about this so if this kind of breed differs greatly in terms of value in trade then ignore it please)

 

I will be really thankful, as I haven't been around for a while and most of the releases/breeds of rares are new to me.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Dark

[Dame_Jedi]

I found this in the AP http://dragcave.net/lineage/LW7Dg I will most pobably keep it, but what is it realistically worth?

[lollipop00]

I was wondering what a CB Blusang might be worth ?

[DarkEternity]

I was wondering what a CB Blusang might be worth ?

Just under a CB metal.

[RMS]

Reds and Pinks are both pretty common right now. Honestly, for a 2nd gen Shimmer you can ask for a ton of those if you're willing to give a reasonably time line for collection. If I saw someone asked for 100 of them I'd probably go ahead and offer to do that for the trade.

 

I think a lot of it depends on what your timetable is and what trophy level a person is at - also figuring in the fact that we may very well be getting a 2 breed release on the first Sunday of every month.

 

But I think that if you let people bid for a set amount of time and you keep an update of what the highest bid is, then you'd probably get a really surprisingly large number offered.

Thank you for the reply; seems like there's a lot to consider. I'll keep them in mind.

[skauble]

Why can't I trade THIS? Been trying all night. All I'm asking for is one CB metal. That's it.

 

Besides the fact that the Shimmer panic (where people will offer anything for any lineage, regardless of gen or lineage because they think they'll never get one otherwise) has largely passed, there's also the fact that the metal boom has passed, as far as I can tell.

 

Yes, metal breeding and the amount in the cave seems higher than pre-boom levels, but the time of everyone having multi-metals to offer on trades appears to be winding down.

 

So it's kind of a double hit that people are feeling.

 

People who got in super early with any and then somewhat early with lower to mid gens probably did pretty well, but I feel bad for people who more recently paid high for mid-gens with the thought that Shimmers were going to retain that type of value.

[Data_Girl_3]

I've been trying to get a CB Neglected for a while, but everyone who offers one states they'll only trade the neglected for a CB metallic. However, I've had absolutely no luck with getting a CB Gold/Silver. All I can find on the AP are tinsels and one bred gold.

 

I'm wondering if it's allowed to trade the bred rares I'm able to find on the AP for a CB Metallic in order to exchange it for a neglected. Is re-trading an egg/hatchling a violation of DC rules? I know it's not allowed with dragons that are gifted from the Giving Tree, but I'm not sure about actual trades.