Question about a trade?

[skauble]

@skauble: How do you tell the beginning of a Cusp? Did you know the Blusangs were drop like crazy? What's the tip-off?

IME, I think that there are a number of ways that you can get a feel for a change in rarity so that you're ahead of the market.

 

-Hunting: Obviously getting a first hand feel for how eggs are dropping is helpful. I suggest hunting at various times on different days if you're trying to get a handle on a certain breed's drop rate. Also, make sure you catch the very beginning of the drops, because that first minute or two tends to see eggs moving very fast, which can give you a good sampling, especially considering how stagnant the biomes can be at times.

 

-Breeding: If a breed starts to breed true, especially with common mates, that can signal a change in the ratios. It's like when we have a new release and it's very hard to breed them with metals and get Golds and Silvers instead of the new breed. Once that shifts and more metals start being produced by those pairings, you can tell that the ratios are beginning to even out for them.

 

-Trade threads: Scan all the new trades every day. Two notes -

 

A. For the most part, ignore what people are asking for. I know a lot of people who judge rarity by what people are trying to get for their trade. I constantly see people saying that X must be rare because people are asking for CB metals for them. But what people want and what they get are very often vastly different, so that can be a misleading measure.

 

If 20 people are offering CB Blusangs for CB metals, the rarity indicator to focus on is far more likely to be the 20 posts as opposed to the metal demands.

 

B. Watch for people offering multiples. If, for months, people haven't even seen a breed and then people start popping up with 3 or 4, it's likely the population is shifting.

 

-Date of the initial release: Whitebaron is correct about the ratios, but aside from the 1 year mark, some eggs we know aren't meant to be ultra-rares, either because we've heard from TJ or because we know that rares aren't one biome breeds. So even if it takes a long time, some breeds you can expect to even out, which will make it easier to catch the transition. For instance, Green Opals are a good breed to keep your eye on.

 

-Fansites: You don't have to go through all the eggs, just a page or two will provide a random sampling that should show an increase in a breed. I used to check for CB Blusangs and the shift was quite visible with even a moderate amount of poking around.

 

-The congrats thread: When people catch something that's perceived as rare, they'll often post there. A large upswing in "OMG I just caught X!" posts can signal a change, especially when people are remarking that they were never able to get them before.

 

-Seeing/catching them: If you haven't recently increased your hunting but suddenly start to see a breed that has previously seemed invisible to you that's a good sign that a transition is starting. And when you start being able to catch a number of a breed that has always eluded you, that's usually the "cusp" period, where the perception of rarity will soon be widely shifting so a trader needs to act fast.

 

 

Also, this thread is a pretty good resource because there's often discussions that go along with the speculation. We actually discussed the Blusang shift a while back. Here's a post I made on the 1st of this month about whether the Blusang population was increasing and if it would be a sustained upswing. So we were bouncing that subject around about 3 weeks ago. That would have been an optimal time to make the most of the crossover of the new ease of catchability and the still strong sense of rarity.

[Cupcakefight]

Is a CB silver equal to a CB gold? For some reason I cannot catch the latter and it's pissing me off.

 

Also, I personally haven't seen an increase in coppers, I see more golds and silvers!!!

[Crocodile]

Is a CB silver equal to a CB gold? For some reason I cannot catch the latter and it's pissing me off.

 

Also, I personally haven't seen an increase in coppers, I see more golds and silvers!!!

I think many people see it as 2 CB silvers: 1 CB gold.

[danegrrrl]

Is a CB silver equal to a CB gold?

Depends on who you ask, really.

 

I do not view them equally, but some do.

[platedlizard]

What are cb stds going for these days? What about cb tan ridges?

 

 

[LuvDragons]

I noticed a drastic change with the green opals when in the forest. I used to see quite a few of them in the drops say the first few months of their being released. In fact I even managed to grab one myself. Now I just don't see them there anymore. So where did they all go???? The blue ones I see in the Alpine or the other biome. And as for the coppers I for one would love to see them increased a bit more. Say like appear in every hour about 1 or 2. Not the way they are appearing now.

 

So these people that are wanting say for a cb copper a 2nd generation shimmer or a gold egg-cb egg what are their chances of actually getting what they want?? What happens if their offer isn't met?? So how many blusangs say would one need to trade for a cb copper if like you say the golds and the silvers aren't that plentiful or we have them but they don't seem to be breeding worth a darn. And nobody it seems wants to breed us 2nd gen. shimmers unless we come up with a copper or a gold /silver egg. Sounds like a vicious circle to me.

Edited September 19, 2013 by LuvDragons

[Syphoneira]

The Forest biome strikes me as actually being one of the fasted-moving (or most-steadily-moving*) biomes at the moment, so I don't think that's it...? The Alpine does move more quickly, but we're not having a situation like we had for the past Coast releases, where the biome is just... not moving. It is moving. (Conversely, now that BSAs are much easier to get, the Desert biome has gotten really slow (though the desert September release is so far still keeping it going), because CB BSAs are no longer desirable. </random trivia>)

 

* since I hunt at various times during the full hour, the distinction is a bit difficult for me to discern...

 

(Edit: Looks like it's "steadily-moving" much more than "fast-moving", I've paid some extra attention to the hour drop. n_n)

 

 

Lol, by the time I get around to hunting the Cave, it's evening/night/wee earlies, and the biomes barely ever move, the Jungle and lately Forest almost always at a standstill with only a few or even no people in them, except maybe a little right around Drop-time..

 

I suppose the time to get on must be during the DC day, when too many fast-clickers are on for me to have much chance, although I'd rather see desired dragons fly by than refresh Blockers.

 

Although the odd time when I've tried going on in the daytime, the biomes haven't happened to have been moving much then, either, so my timing must just stink.

[Torkie10]

So these people that are wanting say for a cb copper a 2nd generation shimmer or a gold egg-cb egg what are their chances of actually getting what they want?? What happens if their offer isn't met?? So how many blusangs say would one need to trade for a cb copper if like you say the golds and the silvers aren't that plentiful or we have them but they don't seem to be breeding worth a darn.

I'd be surprised if anyone asked for a 2nd Gen Shimmer for a CB Copper. 3rd Gen Shimmers and Tinsels seem reasonable to me, though, especially if you offer to add more. Generally speaking, I'm willing to add 2nd Gen Metallics to my CB Copper trades for a 3rd Gen Shimmer. At this point I wouldn't accept Blusangs for Coppers, no matter how many someone offered. Sorry to those who offer, but I can catch my own just fine, so I'm not interested in trading for them.

 

And, well, yes, there have been times where I don't get the offers I want. So I do just as I say I will: I keep the Coppers. And I'm fine with that. It happens about half the time in my trades: I don't get the offer I want, so I end up keeping what I had put up. When you start Trading regularly, that's just something you have to learn to be okay with.

[skauble]

So these people that are wanting say for a cb copper a 2nd generation shimmer or a gold egg-cb egg what are their chances of actually getting what they want?? What happens if their offer isn't met??  So how many blusangs say would one need to trade for a cb copper if like you say the golds and the silvers aren't that plentiful or we have them but they don't seem to be breeding worth a darn. And nobody it seems wants to breed us 2nd gen. shimmers unless we come up with a copper or a gold /silver egg. Sounds like a vicious circle to me.

CB Coppers are slowly coming back. In the first months after their release I saw one. Total. lol But I've managed to catch three since around the beginning of the month, so while I'm in no way saying they're all over the cave, there are more of them showing up. Especially because I haven't been hunting all that heavily and I doubt that I have enough luck to show up the only time Coppers do.

 

As far as I can tell, trade-wise, the only Copper that might be worth a CB Gold is a Green one, and I've even seen more of those lately in the trading thread, or being spotted by people from the Copper speculation thread. I'm not saying that CB Copper/CB Gold is an impossible trade to make, just that they don't generally seem to be on the same level now that people are seeing Coppers in the cave.

 

Also, the breeding rate of Coppers seems like it might indicate that once the drought is over they may drop a good bit over Golds and Silvers.

 

As for what it takes to get a 2nd gen Prize dragon, people report all sorts of trades. However it does create a vicious cycle in that the low gen Prize market creates a continuous incentive for those who can catch a lot of rares to maintain a constant, focused rare hunt. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that no one else ever gets metals, just that if you check the trade threads there's kind of a whirlpool of CB metals that all circle around the goal of low gen Prizes.

 

I also want to stress that I don't think there's anything wrong with people playing that way or making those trades - that's how the game has been set up, and people are playing within those parameters. So I don't think this is a player issue, but rather a problem in how the raffle works.

 

As for Blusangs, I think at this point you'd have to trade a rather large amount to get a CB Copper.

 

 

[DragonNighthowler]

I also want to stress that I don't think there's anything wrong with people playing that way or making those trades

 

Definitely not, there is nothing wrong with playing how the game was programed to be played. It is just a little sad that the trading system is monopolized (of sorts) by certain trades. You find interesting things from time to time, but most of it is;

Have 2 CB Silvers, Want 2nd Gen Shimmer/Tinsel.

 

It would be better to find a more varied sort of product, but the thing is, those who can catch CB silvers can catch anything in the cave, so it is only logical they ask for the only thing they can't get.

 

Edit; When I say Silver, I mean pretty much any dragon which is considered rare enough to go for some nice trade, such as coppers, blusangs and now the opals.

Edited September 19, 2013 by DragonNighthowler

[Syphoneira]

Definitely not, there is nothing wrong with playing how the game was programed to be played. It is just a little sad that the trading system is monopolized (of sorts) by certain trades. You find interesting things from time to time, but most of it is;

Have 2 CB Silvers, Want 2nd Gen Shimmer/Tinsel.

 

It would be better to find a more varied sort of product, but the thing is, those who can catch CB silvers can catch anything in the cave, so it is only logical they ask for the only thing they can't get.

 

Edit; When I say Silver, I mean pretty much any dragon which is considered rare enough to go for some nice trade, such as coppers, blusangs and now the opals.

 

 

We're starting to see the odd one, thank goodness.

 

I have an offer in now on two bred Blacks, after failing to see such trade posts more than very rarely in the main Trade thread.

 

I think that people constantly see all these posts offering/asking a scroll-full of CB metals and Coppers for low-gen Shimmers and people posting that anything 'less' holds no value for them and think that *nobody* will have any interest in trading their short, pretty lineages or interesting 2nd gen commons for something similar, but that simply isn't the case...

[Kiyoura]

^ I can breed tons of pretty lineaged dragons, but never put them up for trade because I don't expect offers.

[DragonNighthowler]

 

We're starting to see the odd one, thank goodness.

 

I have an offer in now on two bred Blacks, after failing to see such trade posts more than very rarely in the main Trade thread.

 

I think that people constantly see all these posts offering/asking a scroll-full of CB metals and Coppers for low-gen Shimmers and people posting that anything 'less' holds no value for them and think that *nobody* will have any interest in trading their short, pretty lineages or interesting 2nd gen commons for something similar, but that simply isn't the case...

Yeah, that might be the case. I have a 50-50 experience, to be honest.

I've had thing move rather quickly (in a few hours), and others stand by for days, even grow up on my scroll. Things like;

Have; Second gen white striped. Want; Bloodswap.

And have it grow on my scroll with not a single offer. Kind of sucks.

[Amazon_warrior]

I've completed (and indeed exceeded) my scroll goals for CB metals now (except Coppers, and I view those as a long-term catching project), and if the lineage view change hadn't happened I'd totally pull a DarkEternity and trade high-value stuff (CB Shinies, low-gen Shims/Tins, etc.) for longer, pretty even-gen lineages. But I have absolutely no incentive to do that now, which is a huge shame for all concerned.

[Ayelldee]

 

We're starting to see the odd one, thank goodness.

 

I have an offer in now on two bred Blacks, after failing to see such trade posts more than very rarely in the main Trade thread.

 

I think that people constantly see all these posts offering/asking a scroll-full of CB metals and Coppers for low-gen Shimmers and people posting that anything 'less' holds no value for them and think that *nobody* will have any interest in trading their short, pretty lineages or interesting 2nd gen commons for something similar, but that simply isn't the case...

But Syph, if that's not the case then why aren't we seeing requests for 'pretty lineages' more often tham "I haz 44 CB metals of all kinds - gimmee all your 2gen Tinsels/Shimmers"? I used to be a lot more active in the Trading threads til they became the party-playground of the rich and entitled. I've been working on my own little 'line' of SP's but I doubt if anyone would want to trade anything really nice for an egg from it.

 

Ta-dah http://dragcave.net/lineage/NaKdB

 

ETA: Yes something's wrong when you can't even get a blood-swap.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Ayelldee

[DragonNighthowler]

Yes something's wrong when you can't even get a blood-swap

 

Funny thing is you can't because most people don't have a lineage like that to trade. I remember someone who made an experiment not that long ago (don't remember who), offering like 5 CB metallics for a 7th gen lineage of certain patterns. He was a bit specific, but the funny thing was he didn't find anyone who had those lineages, and only found several who said they would breed it from scratch.

 

Certain lineages are more rare than CB metallics, and yet they are viewed as worthless.

 

IMO, lineages put so much work and frustration (my signature kind of proves the kind of frustration and how close I'm at times of simply tossing everything to the garbage and leaving), that it would be as if the leather from the seats of a car would be more expensive than the finished product. Makes no sense.

That's how I view DC. Sure, golds and silvers take a load of work to hunt.

Some of us are virtually incapable for a series of motives.

But thought out lineages take work and planning, and yet if I were to post it in trading threads, most likely I would get no interest at all.

 

But... the market places the price. It's just sad that it is overflowed with the same offers, and more and more people are giving up on it unable to compete. :/

[whitebaron]

Lineages are not for trading. They are for collaboration, working together, finding friends/allies to help out and work together towards a common goal.

 

try to find a mate #1: http://coup-detat.info/NDER/Lineage.php?dc...en=5&mate=hWgMx

try to find a mate #2: http://coup-detat.info/NDER/Lineage.php?dc...en=4&mate=d6Kng

try to find a mate #3: http://dragcave.net/lineage/dbsO4

 

That these are rares, does not help, but even if it were something simple like green x flamingo, odds are: noone has it available for trade. And noone could continue it, everyone would have to start from scratch.

 

Yes, there are some people who would value such dragons, but since they can't continue them, and won't continue them due to other projects, it is not a big wonder they won't trade something of value for it - there is just too much variety to trade for them.

 

Its also the reason why I gift such offspring most of the time (excepting #3, I trade them sometimes), because then I can be sure, it is appreciated.

 

PS: in that shimmer lineage, 11 dragons belong to me. I was gifted by nice people 8 dragons that are in it. It's your network that defines your breeding successes, not your ability to catch anything.

[Amazon_warrior]

Funny thing is you can't because most people don't have a lineage like that to trade. I remember someone who made an experiment not that long ago (don't remember who), offering like 5 CB metallics for a 7th gen lineage of certain patterns. He was a bit specific, but the funny thing was he didn't find anyone who had those lineages, and only found several who said they would breed it from scratch.

 

Certain lineages are more rare than CB metallics, and yet they are viewed as worthless.

I'm pretty sure that was DarkEternity - I mention them in my post above. In fact, I traded them a sibling of this for a CB Gold. And as mentioned, I was totally planning to follow their example until even-gens got borked by TJ. >_> Sometimes it's nice to just collect art because it's art, but not if someone's going to come along later and bugger about with it and change how it looks.

[DragonNighthowler]

Lineages are not for trading

 

I can't agree with this. Not when a Tinsel from F-Bomb is pretty much a pest, while a Tinsel from booo or Anzu is valued much more highly. Lineages can be for trading, as they are eggs all the same as CB.

 

A different thing is people opting to trade lineages for lineages, or gift them (as most of us do).

 

But they can be for whatever you wish them to. There is not a right way to play the game.

 

And I have many people who I have to thank for helping me with my projects. Without them, it would have never been possible.

[skauble]

Lineages are not for trading. They are for collaboration, working together, finding friends/allies to help out and work together towards a common goal.

 

I suspect that's a bit easier to say when you can grab a rare from the cave everyday.

 

Yes, there are some people who would value such dragons, but since they can't continue them, and won't continue them due to other projects, it is not a big wonder they won't trade something of value for it - there is just too much variety to trade for them.

 

These are just a few of the dragons my niece has traded NDs for, specifically because of their lineages:

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/ReHbH

http://dragcave.net/lineage/OO58n

http://dragcave.net/lineage/JFue5

http://dragcave.net/lineage/MsD3P

http://dragcave.net/lineage/e529l

 

Sometimes she trades for a number of dragons, sometimes just for one.

 

Lineages have value and there are people who will trade accordingly, but I think a bit of the hangup isn't always the work involved, but the fact that some folks have created a taboo around trading them as opposed to gifting.

[Amazon_warrior]

I suspect that's a bit easier to say when you can grab a rare from the cave everyday.

 

 

 

These are just a few of the dragons my niece has traded NDs for, specifically because of their lineages:

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/ReHbH

http://dragcave.net/lineage/OO58n

http://dragcave.net/lineage/JFue5

http://dragcave.net/lineage/MsD3P

http://dragcave.net/lineage/e529l

 

Sometimes she trades for a number of dragons, sometimes just for one.

 

Lineages have value and there are people who will trade accordingly, but I think a bit of the hangup isn't always the work involved, but the fact that some folks have created a taboo around trading them as opposed to gifting.

I think this pretty much sums it up. People have a mind-set where lineaged dragons are only gifted, not traded, and are thus not "worth" paying anything for when you could just ask for one and be given it.

 

(Also, *squees* - I spy my dragons in the Copper/Sunsong lineage! )

[Ayelldee]

Things are always easier to say when you can load your Scroll up with CB Metals day after day.

[whitebaron]

I stay by my opinion: Lineages are best done outside the market.

 

(and, in the meantime, I have received an offer for a 3g gold x silver checker via pm)

 

 

Also: I dont see any taboo about trading EGs, I just see the troubles involved - mostly that people can't continue what they got, and thus, have not much interest in trading something they CAN use for something they can't.

[Tawanda001]

I've found that straight up trading lineages often doesn't get much in the way of offers, however when they are added to sweeten a deal they can be pretty useful.

[DragonNighthowler]

I stay by my opinion: Lineages are best done outside the market.

 

(and, in the meantime, I have received an offer for a 3g gold x silver checker via pm)

 

 

Also: I dont see any taboo about trading EGs, I just see the troubles involved - mostly that people can't continue what they got, and thus, have not much interest in trading something they CAN use for something they can't.

There is not much use for Neglecteds.