Plot Holes and Writing Flaws

[crazywargod]

I did not want to enter the discussion, but, really!

 

As long as she doesn't explain it, and it bears no relevance to the story, it IS a mistake. Otherwise, we can just skip all flaws we see in books with such a lame excuse.

 

I am working on alternate reality real world, but all the changes done have a relevance to the plot and ARE explained. She does not explain it, she's simply done 0 research when writing her books.

DragonNighthowler if you don't want discussion don't post.

 

It is POSSIBLY a mistake and anybody assuming otherwise is just hating on her because they don't like twilight. Not every. Litte. Thing need relevance in a story. It can just be there. And truthfully, YES, a west coast of brazil is a VERY small thing.

 

No you can't just write off every flaw with the 'it's a fantsy excuse' but small things, like the west coast of brazil, can be. Is it a lae excuse? Definitly. But viable nonetheless.

 

 

Do I like twilight? Not a chance in hell. To put it lightly. This doesn't mean that I hate Smeyer, far from it in fact. I hate twilight but that doesn't mean every little thing wrong with its world compared to the real one, especially because this is a fantasy, is going to be OH LOOKY LOOKY!!! ANOTHER MISTAKE!!!

 

I think this is a suspension of disbelief thing and brazil's west coast has hardly crossed that line. It is small. Get over it.

 

 

 

We've been off-topic long enough. Agree to disagree?

 

Any other plot holes?

[lightbird]

Of course, it's not a big mistake, just cut off several countries and a whole mountain range.

 

CWG, I think you argue like a troll, mulling on and on with feeble, personal arguments just to have the last word. That doesn't make you right. That doesn't make you in any way respectable. That's it.

Edited December 28, 2010 by lightbird

[crazywargod]

Of course, it's not a big mistake, just cut off several countries and a whole mountain range.

 

CWG, I think you argue like a troll, mulling on and on with feeble, personal arguments just to have the last word. That doesn't make you right. That doesn't make you in any way respectable. That's it.

Personal? Feeble? Tell that to the millions to use the same excuse. I am using the 'it's a fantasy' excuse. Hardly personal. Or feeble. As for the suspension of disbelief, this is also used by many.

 

 

I am not trying to have the last word. I think you are being rude and disrespectful. That is it.

[lightbird]

This argument has been covered before. Even if it's fantasy, if it is set on Earth, it should follow geography, unless she has an explanation up her sleeve, why Brazil has a West coast. If she doesn't, then it's a mistake, no doubt.

 

And that other part of my previous post was because this isn't the only debate I've followed that has involved you.

[Stromboli]

... The problem was never that she gave Brazil a west coast, unless there is a quote mentioning the position of the island that I missed.

 

What she did was fail to look up the geography of the city in which she placed her characters.

 

This is the city of Rio de Janeiro. According to the book, Bella and Edward land in the city, drive to the western edge to the marina, and then sail due east.

As you can see, the west side of the city is landlocked, and even if they had gone to the proper side of the city, one cannot sail due east from Rio. You will run into Neteroi.

If you're going to have your characters navigate a real city, even briefly, you should take the time to look up a map. It's basic research.

 

It'd be like writing a scene in New York and putting Times Square north of Central Park. No, most folks wouldn't notice. But it's still wrong and should have been better researched.

 

 

ETA:

Here's some Twilight inconsistancy for you though.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Stromboli

[DragonNighthowler]

Don't worry, Crazy, I'm not posting any more. You can have the last word.

 

Lightbird, I completely agree with you in everything.

[darkangel787]

OKAY. here's what I don't get though, CWG, I don't mean to be disagreeable, but HOW is it NOT a mistake?

There is no west coast of Brazil-- she could have said the west coast of Peru, Ecuador, chile, etc etc, but she chose Brazil-- this was a mistake.

[crazywargod]

... The problem was never that she gave Brazil a west coast, unless there is a quote mentioning the position of the island that I missed.

 

What she did was fail to look up the geography of the city in which she placed her characters.

 

This is the city of Rio de Janeiro. According to the book, Bella and Edward land in the city, drive to the western edge to the marina, and then sail due east.

As you can see, the west side of the city is landlocked, and even if they had gone to the proper side of the city, one cannot sail due east from Rio. You will run into Neteroi.

If you're going to have your characters navigate a real city, even briefly, you should take the time to look up a map. It's basic research.

 

It'd be like writing a scene in New York and putting Times Square north of Central Park. No, most folks wouldn't notice. But it's still wrong and should have been better researched.

The map was unnecessary. If you look back to when it was first mentioned without the map I agreed that this was fail. Everybody else went on about her putting a west coast to brazil so I argued that.

 

 

DragonNighthowler I DON'T WANT THE LAST WORD!!!

 

lightbird so? I've been in a lot of debates and some arguments. I'm hard-headed and opinionated. Sadly most of my opinions don't match others opinions but I am not a troll.

 

darkangel787 please read Stromboli's last post.

[Stromboli]

crazywargod - I know. I saw your post. The map was because everyone else was going on about the west-coast-of-Brazil bit. So I explained what was actually going on in that section of the book, with visuals.

[darkangel787]

Anyways. Any more plot holes?

I've actually noticed something in HP-- in book 5 (spoilers for those who havent read) how come Harry doesn't use the mirror when he tries to contact Sirius, once he's received the dream about the Department of Mysteries and Sirius inside it?

 

[crazywargod]

crazywargod - I know. I saw your post. The map was because everyone else was going on about the west-coast-of-Brazil bit. So I explained what was actually going on in that section of the book, with visuals.

Sorry. This here debate, if you can still call it that, it making me edgy.

 

 

 

@darkangel787:I never noticed that. Maybe because of magical barriers... I don't know.

Edited December 28, 2010 by crazywargod

[Stromboli]

Anyways. Any more plot holes?

I've actually noticed something in HP-- in book 5 (spoilers for those who havent read) how come Harry doesn't use the mirror when he tries to contact Sirius, once he's received the dream about the Department of Mysteries and Sirius inside it?

This is adressed at the end of the book, isn't it?

Harry breaks the mirror because he's angry at himself for not thinking of it. He simply forgot that he had it, seeing as he was panicking and entirely sure that Sirius was being tortured at that very moment. Not to mention all the stress he'd already been under that year with O.W.L.s and having Voldemort pop into his head every now and then, and Dumbledore being standoffish and not understanding what the connection between his mind and Voldemort's was.

It just slipped his mind.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Stromboli

[darkangel787]

D'oh right. I forogt about that part. Whoopsies.

 

Hm. Another one for HP-- once the world knows that Voldemort's back in the sixth book, why doesn't he like...summon dragons or something like that to take the place down? I mean, if his magic is so extensive, as ridiculous as this sounds... he could summon some creature to take down Hogwarts, or something? Maybe recruit the giants a little earlier-- as we know in book 7, they were able to get giants in...so why not then?

[lightbird]

This is adressed at the end of the book, isn't it?

Harry breaks the mirror because he's angry at himself for not thinking of it. He simply forgot that he had it, seeing as he was panicking and entirely sure that Sirius was being tortured at that very moment. Not to mention all the stress he'd already been under that year with O.W.L.s and having Voldemort pop into his head every now and then, and Dumbledore being standoffish and not understanding what the connection between his mind and Voldemort's was.

It just slipped his mind.

Actually, Harry only found the mirrors when Sirius was already dead. When Sirius gave Harry the mirrors at the Grimmauld place, Harry thought to himself that he's not going to use the contents of the package, whatever it is.

[darkangel787]

Actually, Harry only found the mirrors when Sirius was already dead. When Sirius gave Harry the mirrors at the Grimmauld place, Harry thought to himself that he's not going to use the contents of the package, whatever it is.

Well, technically he didn't say that? He just took it, as I remember?

 

EDIT: And now that I think about it, that was a sort of stupid choice of Harry's if it actually was that.

Edited December 28, 2010 by darkangel787

[lightbird]

Well, technically he didn't say that? He just took it, as I remember?

 

EDIT: And now that I think about it, that was a sort of stupid choice of Harry's if it actually was that.

I think, yes, and he thought to himself that he's not going to use them, the way Rowling always writes about his thoughts.

 

Dragons... might be because dragons are such badass magical creatures, that it just isn't enough with just one mage controlling them? Also, dragons are quite hard to hide (not only big, but also agressive and, HELLO! fire!), and since Voldy is the secretive kind, it sounds... plausible that dragons would be too much of a hassle to mess with. So that's no really a mistake.

 

Oh, one up my sleeve. I've not read Pahlaniuk's Lullaby, but I've heard that he's mistaken Athena for Aphrodite there, as in Athena, the goddess of love and beauty. I may be wrong, of course.

Edited December 28, 2010 by lightbird

[darkangel787]

Well it's kind of a writing flaw if Voldemort could have won so easily. But I guess you're right. (Might have been a different story with Grindlewald and him using them, but of course he thought he was doing everything for "The Greater Good" so probably not.)

[Stromboli]

Assuming you mean from the beginning of the sixth book:

Voldemort still feared Dumbledore, and he still hadn't entirely reestablished himself yet. He wasn't yet in a position to attack Hogwarts.

He also wouldn't have wanted to destroy everything of the curent wizarding world, particularly not Hogwarts. Hogwarts was his first home. If Voldemort loved anything, it was Hogwarts. All Voldemort needed to do to create the world he wanted was to tweak some things in the established systems. Much easier to do than to raze the whole thing and start over.

 

Dragons would be difficult to control. They can't take and follow orders at all. Maybe you could Imperius them, but given that they are such powerfully magical creatures, that might not work.

While Voldemort didn't respect the giants, as he viewed anything that was not a pure-blood wizard as a lesser being, they could take directions. He couldn't just capture them and force them to do what he wanted though. That would mean devoting some of his followers to keeping the giants attacking the right people during a fight. If he wins their allegiance, they'll follow his orders without anyone having to make sure they don't turn on him.

[crazywargod]

This is adressed at the end of the book, isn't it?

Harry breaks the mirror because he's angry at himself for not thinking of it. He simply forgot that he had it, seeing as he was panicking and entirely sure that Sirius was being tortured at that very moment. Not to mention all the stress he'd already been under that year with O.W.L.s and having Voldemort pop into his head every now and then, and Dumbledore being standoffish and not understanding what the connection between his mind and Voldemort's was.

It just slipped his mind.

I re-read the end and harry didn't open the package until the very end of the book. In fact it seems he either didn't know of the package or he forgot about it. Though if he breaks it it is not in book 5.

 

 

As to voldy and dragons I don't think even he was powerful enough to control one and if he was I seem to remember he was scared of dumbledore and is why he didn't attack hogwarts till book 7.

[Stromboli]

Hmm. I'll have to re-read that one. I could've sworn he smashed it at the end. Guess not. :\

[crazywargod]

Hmm. I'll have to re-read that one. I could've sworn he smashed it at the end. Guess not. :\

He tried to use it to talk to Sirius but failed. He then ran to talk to nearly headless nick about Sirius coming back as a ghost.

[Stromboli]

Oh yeah! I remember that part!

Hurrr I need to reread the series anyway.

[crazywargod]

Oh yeah! I remember that part!

Hurrr I need to reread the series anyway.

*facepalm*

He did smash it. He chucked it and it hit the wall above hit trunk. He then proceded to run to nick.

 

I read too fast. Bottom of page 857 to the bottom of page 858 is where he finds the mirror and it fails its purpose and he chucks it.

Edited December 28, 2010 by crazywargod

[Kamak]

Hmm... I could have sworn the mirror broke at the beginning of 7, when he put stuff in his trunk to leave Privet Drive, and heard it crunch... or maybe he broke it further... :/

 

All in all... Harry seems to be his dumbest in the 5th book... Especially when Ginny points out that he could have talked to her about Voldy getting into his head since the same thing happened in Book 2 to her... he was definitely carrying the idiot ball that year...

 

-K-

[crazywargod]

Hmm... I could have sworn the mirror broke at the beginning of 7, when he put stuff in his trunk to leave Privet Drive, and heard it crunch... or maybe he broke it further... :/

 

All in all... Harry seems to be his dumbest in the 5th book... Especially when Ginny points out that he could have talked to her about Voldy getting into his head since the same thing happened in Book 2 to her... he was definitely carrying the idiot ball that year...

 

-K-

Or it might have been something else. Or it was fixed by someone, or him, and it broke again.

 

 

Just read it. He broke a tea cup in the beginning and cut himself from a leftover fragment of the mirror.

 

 

 

Oh yes he was very stupid in book 5.