Gender and Gender Identity

[Riverwillows]

You know, Txngo, I've been going back and reading all the previous posts, your responses, and the responses to you and I've come to one conclusion:

 

You don't seem to be here to add to the dicussion, or even intelligently debate the issue. You seem to be here strictly for confrontation and attention. That is how you are coming across. If that is wrong, maybe you should be careful of how you word things, or show that your interest is two-way, rather than stubborn one way. Just a suggestion. Peace.

 

 

[St. Jimmy]

I was wrong.

 

There are many genders and 3 sexes.

Male, intersex, female.

 

Now I think I got it.

 

Sex is biological, gender is social.

It's really a bit more complicated than that!

 

Sex isn't really "so this is definitely male, this is definitely female, and everything else is intersex." It's on a spectrum, much like gender. Sex is determined by multiple factors: chromosomes, internal reproductive organs/gonads, genitalia, and hormones. What we define as "male" and "female" are really just the most typical combinations (or enough of them grouped together to assign one of those sexes). However, multiple other combinations are possible. Usually they're grouped together as intersex but are really a wide variety of biological sexes.

 

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/sex...e-male-intersex <For some more reading.

[Obscure_Trash]

I was wrong.

 

There are many genders and 3 sexes.

Male, intersex, female.

 

Now I think I got it.

 

Sex is biological, gender is social.

So it's not about being right or wrong! I'm actually really excited to actually be able to discuss this. Are you interested in discussion?

 

Because I still have disagreements with your summary here. And I certainly don't mean to be picking on you. I have picked on you enough, though, so if you aren't interesting in discussing, just let me know. But if you are, I'd love to follow up with more of my thoughts!

 

Same offer goes to below:

 

Gender is different than sex

 

~

 

The gender binary, that has nothing to do with sex

 

You are using tumblr articles as academic sources instead of sources from scientists who actually to tests and don't come up with things based on their feelings

 

Considering the gender binary is based on the outdated notion of "biological sex" it has everything to do with it.

 

You gave me a link to google the first time around but you're going to call out the critical analyses I linked? If you want to discuss, you're going to need to actually address what you disagree with in the analyses I posted.

 

I'll also note that science and research is not free from bigotry and that you do not have to be a published academic to be able to think critically about the world, but here, have an academic source or two:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1504877

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111...09.01047.x/full

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?hand...iv=19&id=&page=

http://csi.sagepub.com/content/48/3/27.short

 

Since not all of these are accessible without subscriptions, here's my favorite excerpt:

 

A. The Gender Spectrum

 

The rigid dichotomy of gender identity, what I call the gender binarism, is inconsistent with the fundamental biological and psychological realities.

 

1. The Constructions of Sex and the Reality of Gender

 

Sex, defined as “either of two divisions of organisms distinguished respectively as male or female,” does not exist. Although most people accept that there are two sexes, “male” and “female”, these categories actually contain a myriad of genders, formed genetically, biologically and culturally. “Each of these so-called criteria of sexedness is itself a continuum – including chromosomal variables, genital and gonadal variations, reproductive capacities, [and] endoctrinological proportions.” Scientists generally agree that there are seven gender traits that constitute one’s gender identity: 1) Chromosomes; 2) Gonads; 3) Hormones; 4) Internal reproductive organs; 5) External genitalia; 6) Secondary sexual characteristics; and 7) Self identity. These seven variables classify the distinct elements of gender identity.

The ubiquity of the categories “male” and “female” cannot prove its veracity as the irreducible essence of gender. Such categories truncate the diversity of gender identity. The psychological component of “self identity” renders the simple male/female dichotomy useless. From the football jock and the trucker to the fey hairdresser and the cyber geek, from the tomboy to the cheerleader, this potpourri of gender identity leaves the categories “male” and “female” wanting. Given such diversity, some would go so far as to argue that there are as many genders as there are people.

 

2. The Gender Binarism

 

The discrete categories of “male” and “female” did not always control sexual identity.

 

• Biological theories of sexuality, juridical conceptions of the individual, forms and administrative control in the modern nations, led little by little to rejecting the idea of a mixture of the two sexes in a single body, and consequently to limiting the free choice of indeterminate individuals. Henceforth, everybody was to have one and only one sex. Everybody was to have his or her primary, profound, determined and determine sexual identity; as for the elements of the other sex that might appear, they could only be accidental, superficial, or even quite simply illusory.

 

Presuming a natural and biological foundation of sexual difference, the law obsessively assigns gender identity according to the gender binarism. Legal procedures around interpersonal relationships require the categorization of one’s gender, sometimes quite explicitly called a “sexual declaratory judgment hearing.” For “inheritance, legitimacy, paternity, succession to title, and eligibility for certain professions to be determined, modern Anglo-Saxon legal systems require that newborns be registered as either male or female.” Legal and societal processes assign a gender to individuals in a coercive fashion that rewards conformity to the norm and punishes nonconformity.

The gender binarism so tightly requires the attribution of gender that the power of medicine is employed to transform intersex bodies into categorizable ones: as a matter of course, babies born with an “aberrant” mix of gender traits are quickly “repaired” to, at least physically, comply with the “M” or the “F” box on a birth certificate.

This same medical power has also been summoned to physically transform a person from one “sex” to the “other” when that person’s psychological gender identity diverges from the physical. Transgendered people break the confines of the gender binarism to give voice to the real breadth of gender identity.

 

I wish I could quote the whole thing here because it's really all well worth the read, use of "transgendered" aside.

 

Here's what you seem to be suck on: yes, sex is treated as different from gender in modern (white) medicine/biology.

Which I'm not disagreeing with.

Here's what I'm saying: it shouldn't be because it is harmful and also a simplistic, unrealistic view on sex/gender.

 

Open a damn biology textbook

 

What is written in textbooks is specifically chosen by those who write them, the message they want to get across, and who they are planning on selling them to.

 

EDIT: You sidestepped this question earlier. I am still very interested in your answer.

 

Please explain to me why there being a strict definition of two and only two genders/sexes is so important to you.

Edited January 26, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[DangerDragon]

Yes lets have a discuss.

 

About sex. I say there are 3 sexes.

Male, intersex, female.

[Obscure_Trash]

Yes lets have a discuss.

 

About sex. I say there are 3 sexes.

Male, intersex, female.

Actually, if you read the quote I provided in the post just before yours, I think that's a good place to start.

 

(Seems a bit silly to say there are three and only three genders/sexes - 2 strict endmembers and then 1 that incorporates everything else. Literally every other possibility. Doesn't it? Especially when I've already noted that I am nonbinary, mostly agender, and that doesn't really fall into the male, female, or intersex category. ^^)

[Moonwick]

This is my only comment here as an intersex person, just for something to go off of.

 

Most intersex people say that sex is a spectrum.

 

Here is a handy chart from Intersex Awareness Day...

 

Disclaimer: I have not been updated on what's going on with gender, sex, and the like for a while, so sorry for any incorrect statements.

 

Like I said, this is going to be my only input for now. I hope that it was something useful.

 

EDIT: I also made this comment because I feel like a few people were seeing intersex as someone who has "both male and female parts" but that is not true and it has been bothering me for the past few days.

BTW As a heads up... I'm going to state right now out of fear, that using the word "H*rmaphrodite" is really bad because it is a slur, and I'd ask you to please avoid using it at all starting now. Thank you.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Silverwinter

[DangerDragon]

Actually, if you read the quote I provided in the post just before yours, I think that's a good place to start.

 

(Seems a bit silly to say there are three and only three genders/sexes - 2 strict endmembers and then 1 that incorporates everything else. Literally every other possibility. Doesn't it? Especially when I've already noted that I am nonbinary, mostly agender, and that doesn't really fall into the male, female, or intersex category. ^^)

There are more than 3 genders, but only 3 sexes.

What's your genitalia like? If you have normal female genitalia your sex is female, if you have normal male genitalia your sex is male. If you have genitalia which has male and female parts you are intersex.

[St. Jimmy]

What's your genitalia like? If you have normal female genitalia your sex is female, if you have normal male genitalia your sex is male. If you have genitalia which has male and female parts you are intersex.

Except it's possible to have strictly one type of genitalia, and a different set of internal reproductive organs (or parts of both.) Or one type of genitalia and another type/different number of sex chromosomes. Or one type of genitalia and your body produces the hormones typical of another sex. All of those would be considered intersex, but each combination also falls in a different part of the spectrum.

[Vrack]

I think one of the problems that we're running into here is the distinction between gender and sex.

 

I see gender as how a person's mind feels.

Example: Someone feels male in their head; their gender is male.

I see sex as a person's genitals/hormones/chromosomes/body chemistry in general

Example: Someone has female external genitals but male internal genitals; their sex is sort of female but also kind of male (might be considered intersex).

 

If those two people are the same person then there's a slight discord between their gender and their sex. Their body is interest(?) but their mind is male.

I'm not sure if I'm "correct" in seeing gender and sex in that way but I'm interested in what everyone elses' ideas are.

There have been several opinions shared but I'd like to see some more pertaining specifically to everyone's "definitions" of gender and sex.

 

(Basically, I'm confused with what/why people are arguing so I want to understand better.)

[Obscure_Trash]

There are more than 3 genders, but only 3 sexes.

What's your genitalia like? If you have normal female genitalia your sex is female, if you have normal male genitalia your sex is male. If you have genitalia which has male and female parts you are intersex.

I'm going to re-post my quote with some bolding for you:

 

A. The Gender Spectrum

 

The rigid dichotomy of gender identity, what I call the gender binarism, is inconsistent with the fundamental biological and psychological realities.

 

1. The Constructions of Sex and the Reality of Gender

 

Sex, defined as “either of two divisions of organisms distinguished respectively as male or female,” does not exist. Although most people accept that there are two sexes, “male” and “female”, these categories actually contain a myriad of genders, formed genetically, biologically and culturally. “Each of these so-called criteria of sexedness is itself a continuum – including chromosomal variables, genital and gonadal variations, reproductive capacities, [and] endoctrinological proportions.” Scientists generally agree that there are seven gender traits that constitute one’s gender identity: 1) Chromosomes; 2) Gonads; 3) Hormones; 4) Internal reproductive organs; 5) External genitalia; 6) Secondary sexual characteristics; and 7) Self identity. These seven variables classify the distinct elements of gender identity.

The ubiquity of the categories “male” and “female” cannot prove its veracity as the irreducible essence of gender. Such categories truncate the diversity of gender identity. The psychological component of “self identity” renders the simple male/female dichotomy useless. From the football jock and the trucker to the fey hairdresser and the cyber geek, from the tomboy to the cheerleader, this potpourri of gender identity leaves the categories “male” and “female” wanting. Given such diversity, some would go so far as to argue that there are as many genders as there are people.

 

2. The Gender Binarism

 

The discrete categories of “male” and “female” did not always control sexual identity.

 

• Biological theories of sexuality, juridical conceptions of the individual, forms and administrative control in the modern nations, led little by little to rejecting the idea of a mixture of the two sexes in a single body, and consequently to limiting the free choice of indeterminate individuals. Henceforth, everybody was to have one and only one sex. Everybody was to have his or her primary, profound, determined and determine sexual identity; as for the elements of the other sex that might appear, they could only be accidental, superficial, or even quite simply illusory.

Presuming a natural and biological foundation of sexual difference, the law obsessively assigns gender identity according to the gender binarism. Legal procedures around interpersonal relationships require the categorization of one’s gender, sometimes quite explicitly called a “sexual declaratory judgment hearing.” For “inheritance, legitimacy, paternity, succession to title, and eligibility for certain professions to be determined, modern Anglo-Saxon legal systems require that newborns be registered as either male or female.” Legal and societal processes assign a gender to individuals in a coercive fashion that rewards conformity to the norm and punishes nonconformity.

The gender binarism so tightly requires the attribution of gender that the power of medicine is employed to transform intersex bodies into categorizable ones: as a matter of course, babies born with an “aberrant” mix of gender traits are quickly “repaired” to, at least physically, comply with the “M” or the “F” box on a birth certificate.

This same medical power has also been summoned to physically transform a person from one “sex” to the “other” when that person’s psychological gender identity diverges from the physical. Transgendered people break the confines of the gender binarism to give voice to the real breadth of gender identity.

 

Basically what this is saying: why are we separating "sex" and "gender" into (extremely simplified) biological and psychological? Why do those need to be separate?

 

Answer: there is no need (except transphobia)!

 

When we separate them, we are basically saying "you're not really this gender because you have this external genitalia" and that's gross and, more importantly, harmful. It feeds into a ton of transphobic ideology and cisnormative ideals.

 

A man can have a penis. A man can have a vagina. A man can have testes. A man can have ovaries.

A woman can have a penis. A woman can have a vagina. A woman can have testes. A woman can have ovaries.

An agender person can have a penis. An agender person can have a vagina. An agender person can have testes. An agender person can have ovaries.

Same with a bigender person, a genderfluid person, a demi gender person, a genderqueer person, etc.

 

That doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to transition to different genitalia still if they don't want. It does mean you can be any gender, no matter you genitalia, and you should not have to hear people referring to you in terms that misgender you. Which is exactly what saying "male genitalia" and "female genitalia" does because no matter how hard people may try to argue otherwise, male has become inextricably linked to men and female has become inextricably linked to women.

 

When we differentiate sex from gender, we feed into ideals that:

-Promote cisnormativity and therefore promote transphobia/cissexism (ie aggressively and coercively gendering infants, who have no concept of gender, and then treating them a certain way based on this label not to mention how they're treated if they fall out of these labels or disagree with what they were coercively assigned as)

-Promote a culture of "coming out" which puts extra stress on trans and nonbinary people because they will face extreme bigotry (chance of being disowned, fired, murdered, etc) when they come out (and even if they don't, depending on how they present)

-Stick us in a narrow gender binary (which we can then talk about sexism and I should mention transmisogyny here, such as the wage gap or rape culture)

-Make it hard for trans and nonbinary people to transition if they wish to transition

-Promotes gatekeeping (ie "you're not a real trans if you don't experience dysphoria" which erases trans and nb people who don't experience dysphoria as well as ignores the fact that cis people can experience dysphoria)

 

Seriously, there are actually studies that are beginning to link a lot of dysphoria problems with cisnormativity/gendering infants. (Side note - shoot! I had a post of these all linked for reference that I now can't find. I'll do some more looking and try to post them later.)

 

Finally, asking me what genitalia I have is incredibly invasive. Why does that matter? Why is that important? When I say I am agender, it means I am agender. Any genitalia I have are agender because I am agender. There should no such things as "male" or "female" parts - not normalized anyway.

 

I am nb, mostly agender (I'm using just agender because it's the closest term and to explain otherwise is longer). Not male or female or intersex.

 

I think one of the problems that we're running into here is the distinction between gender and sex.

 

The problem is that there should not be a distinction. Sex = gender. See above.

Edited January 28, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Shienvien]

Sex = gender.

Sex != gender.

Also, while there definitely are two primary sexes (with an undefined variety of intersex and otherwise nondistinct "secondary" phenotypses), there is basically about as many genders as we feel the need to define for ourselves. We also need to do away with "girl things" and "boy things" - which is indefinitely more harmful than acknowledging that sex is a thing ever was.

 

Sex is phenotype. Gender is identity. You cannot erase the physical facets of the material world just because you happen not to like them. You may insist that making the distinction is somehow trans-intolerant (I refuse to use the word "phobic" here, since the matter has nothing to do with clinical phobia, which is a serious matter that is often also marginalized), but at the same time you actively promote blindness to the fact that these people exist, and there are discernible, measurable physical reasons to why those people feel the way they do.

If we tell people they should be happy with whatever they happened to be born with, they will forget their unhappiness with their current, purely physical, state, right? Wrong. If a legless person wants to run, then their problem is their lack of legs, not their desire to run, and a fast wheelchair isn't "the exact same thing".

 

The examples brought above also seem to not properly define either and/or use term interchangeably and/or switch context in an incoherent fashion.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Shienvien

[diaveborn]

(I refuse to use the word "phobic" here, since the matter has nothing to do with clinical phobia, which is a serious matter that is often also marginalized), but at the same time you actively promote blindness to the fact that these people exist

 

I haven't read anything about words like transphobic doing harm to people with phobias and if that's correct - if I haven't missed something - then I think, whatever the intent, bringing it up acts less as a help to people with phobias and more of a sort of attempt at distancing the speaker from the concept the word represents. (However, you might want to use a term other than blindness to refer to metaphorical blindness.)

 

If a legless person wants to run, then their problem is their lack of legs, not their desire to run, and a fast wheelchair isn't "the exact same thing".

If someone with a physical limitation wants to do something, we can't shy away from the fact that their wanting to do it may be in large part because society says people should do it or should aspire to it as an ideal, or requires the person to do it if they want to do other things they want or need to do, or because society hasn't provided accommodations to do something that would be more fitting in with their abilities. So, potentially the problem is with the desire - not that the person has the desire to, but that society has promoted it.

 

I don't really know where you're going with the analogy, so I'm sorry if this wasn't helpful.

Edited January 28, 2016 by diaveborn

[Shienvien]

Being concerned about terms potentially not hurting marginalized people, you might want to use a term other than blindness to refer to metaphorical blindness.

Promote denial or ignorance, perhaps?

 

If someone with a physical limitation wants to do something, we can't shy away from the fact that their wanting to do it may be in large part because society says people should do it or should aspire to it as an ideal, or requires the person to do it if they want to do other things they want or need to do, or because society hasn't provided accommodations to do something that would be more fitting in with their abilities.  So, potentially the problem is with the desire - not that the person has the desire to, but that society has promoted it.

 

I don't really know where you're going with the analogy, so I'm sorry if this wasn't helpful.

I think we were getting at different things here, indeed. What you described seems to more fall into the "boy things"/"girl things", which I mentioned we should get rid of for good - the you are X, therefore you must like/want/be like Z, Y, W. Whereas I was more getting at a person oneself getting a feeling that something is what they'd rather be, do... (Another place used the analogy, I guess I'm not as good as phrasing myself as they were. )

[DangerDragon]

"When we separate them, we are basically saying "you're not really this gender because you have this external genitalia" and that's gross and, more importantly, harmful. It feeds into a ton of transphobic ideology and cisnormative ideals."

 

No. You can identify as any gender you know you are, because gender is social. Sex is different, its biological and there are only 3 sexes. Also you are mixing gender with sex which are not the same thing.

 

"An agender person can have a penis. An agender person can have a vagina. An agender person can have testes. An agender person can have ovaries.

Same with a bigender person, a genderfluid person, a demi gender person, a genderqueer person, etc."

 

Those are genders, not sexes. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning genders when we are discussing about sexes.

 

"That doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to transition to different genitalia still if they don't want. It does mean you can be any gender, no matter you genitalia, and you should not have to hear people referring to you in terms that misgender you."

 

You can be any gender, but you can't be any sex other than the sex you were born(you can still transition to different sex) as.(female or male or intersex)

 

"When we differentiate sex from gender, we fe--"

 

No.

 

"Seriously, there are actually studies that are beginning to link a lot of dysphoria problems with cisnormativity/gendering infants. (Side note - shoot! I had a post of these all linked for reference that I now can't find. I'll do some more looking and try to post them later.)"

 

I don't see how infants could have distress over gendering, because they have no concept of gender, but I would love to see those studies.

 

"Finally, asking me what genitalia I have is incredibly invasive. Why does that matter? Why is that important? When I say I am agender, it means I am agender. Any genitalia I have are agender because I am agender. There should no such things as "male" or "female" parts - not normalized anyway."

 

Why is it invasive? Why it matters? Because I want to know your sex, not your gender. Are you female, male or intersex?

 

 

Now, just remember

GENDER IS NOT SEX, SEX IS NOT GENDER

[Kestra15]

Finally, asking me what genitalia I have is incredibly invasive. Why does that matter? Why is that important? When I say I am agender, it means I am agender. Any genitalia I have are agender because I am agender. There should no such things as "male" or "female" parts - not normalized anyway.

Because the reproductive systems of males and females come with different health problems.

 

Yes, I get that in social circumstances that those who do not identify as male or female have a lot of stigma to wade through. But when it comes to asking why it matters which one you have, you can bet your bottom local currency that it will matter to your health. If you come with female internal organs then expect to get female problems - menopause, PCOS, vaginal prolapse, ectopic pregnancies, etc. Equally as someone with male problems, look out for prostate concerns.

 

I support people's right to self-determine their gender/sex/preference/etc even if I don't always agree with the need to compartmentalise and name every single type of feelings/genetalia/interest combination with their own new pronouns. Whatever makes you comfortable, then cool. But biologically your reproductive organs do matter.

[Obscure_Trash]

Sex != gender.

Please read the rest of the post right above yours.

 

Sex = gender. Sex = gender. Sex = gender.

 

I don't really know where you're going with the analogy

 

Agreed. Seems very unrelated to me.

 

(I refuse to use the word "phobic" here, since the matter has nothing to do with clinical phobia, which is a serious matter that is often also marginalized)

 

Providing a quote, rather than a link because there's language in the link.

 

Question:

 

I wish you wouldn't degrade by calling someone "phobic" of something. You seem to be very technical and have knowledge of the DSM-V. I would expect someone wold not use something classified as an irrational and intense fear resulting often in loss of ability to function normally, "phobia" to degrade, saying which would make them tantamount to those with this condition, and who struggle with it greatly.

 

Answer:

 

    Lipids are chemically hydrophobic. A phobia is not just an irrational and intense fear resulting in the loss of ability to function normally. It’s also an visceral aversion. The whole -phobia thing comes from classifying the useless persecution of the lgbtqia community as an irrational aversion to people who are different from the established ~norm~

 

    That’s why we classify these philosophies and attitudes as such. Cishets are the lipids and we’re the water. They cluster together blocking us out. Transphobia, homophobia, etc. are acts of exclusionary violence on a community wide scale.

 

    It’s not that a transphobe is irrationally afraid of trans people and is rendered unable to function. It’s that a transphobe enacts exclusionary violence against us. A transphobe is naturally averse to transness, like lipids to water.

 

    It’s easy to mix up the two, and a lot of people see the connection, “Oh, irrationally afraid, I can see that”, but that in itself is ableist because, as you point out, it compares bigotry to disability and gives bigots a shield to hide behind.

 

    Transphobes do not get to use ableism as a shield for their bigotry.

 

~

 

Because the reproductive systems of males and females come with different health problems.

 

And? Nobody is saying medical professionals shouldn't mark down relevant or necessary details (and wouldn't it be much more accurate if something more descriptive were actually marked down rather than "male" or "female")? If people really didn't want to abandon the transphobic notion of sex =/= gender because of medical necessity, intersex babies would not be mutilated upon birth to make them physically fit into either a "male" or "female" category (because wow, medically unnecessary, but wow, can also actually causes medical issues later in life).

 

~

 

The big, bold text people keep using to shout transphobic sentiments at me is also unnecessary.

 

~

 

I'm really not into arguing these points with anybody anymore, as I do not think the hang up is on my wording or me being confusing, but rather a lack of wanting to listen or an openness to changing your mind on something you've been inaccurately taught since birth.

 

It's hard to change so many years of ingrained cissexism, I know.

 

I'm happy to answer questions and have a discussion, but I'm not debating. I've debated this so many times in this thread. I've yet to see any actual arguments against my points except "I don't wanna" and people saying "sex =/= gender" which doesn't actually negate any of the points I've made. Simply states the opposite thing.

 

So if anyone has any genuine questions, I'd love to answer! =)

Edited January 28, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Shienvien]

Sex is phenotype, and an irrefutable fact. Gender is identity dependent on either people's personal feelings or social-cultural standards (the first of which is a matter of feeling comfortable with yourself, the latter of which - the "gender roles", if you might - is dubious at best and might be better abolished).

 

They *are* different things. And sometimes people want to know your sex (eg: medical and statistical records, visual-phenotypical identification, dating sites, etc), and sometimes they want to know your gender (eg: how to address you or how to refer at you when talking to other people).

[Omen]

Here are some quotes that more or less sum up my thoughts on why the matter discussed in recent posts can be problematic. I'll quote them and also provide a link to the website.

 

Please note it uses the term transgender, although I personally believe it applies to non-cis people too.

Respect the terminology a transgender person uses to describe their identity.

 

The transgender community uses many different terms to describe their experiences. Respect the term (transgender, transsexual, genderqueer, cross-dresser, etc.) a person uses to describe themselves. If a person is not sure of which identity label fits them best, give them the time to figure it out for themselves and don't tell them which term you think they should use. You wouldn't like your identity to be defined by others, so please allow others to define themselves.

 

...

 

Don't ask about a transgender person's genitals, surgical status, or sex life.

 

It would be inappropriate to ask a non-transgender person about the appearance or status of their genitals, and it's equally inappropriate to ask a transgender person those quesions. Don't ask if a transgender person has had "the surgery" or if they are "pre-op" or "post-op." If a transgender person wants to talk to you about such matters, they will bring it up. Similarly, it wouldn't be appropriate to ask a non-transgender person about how they have sex, so the same courtesy should be extended to transgender people.

Source: http://www.glaad.org/transgender/allies

 

What organs we have isn't a concern of anyone's except our treating physicians or partners. Perhaps health insurance (or government funded care) too, though more places are providing coverage relevant to the procedures we need, not to the marker on our birth certificate.

 

I am male, therefore my body is male. My physicians respect my identity and use clinical terms to describe my organs as I am okay with that. If I am denied treatment relevant to the organs I possess, it is exclusionary and I will challenge it.

 

When people assert that sex does not equal gender, it encourages the notion that we, even with reconstruction surgery, will not be considered the sex we are aligning our bodies to. There are people that do not want, or cannot afford surgery or hormonal therapy, and they are often shunted to the side and considered "not trans enough" by people within our own community and the community at large. In my opinion, their identity is just as valid as mine or anyone else's who seeks medical treatment.

 

I am fortunate that my identity is more binary than not, else I would be fighting at each step to be given the due care I need. As it is, I've already encountered one gatekeeper who wanted me to live in a male role for a year (an outdated practice with the WPATH Standards of Care for the treatment of Transgender, Transsexual and Gender Non-conforming People) before they would allow me to access hormone replacement therapy, and I had to pay for that privilege. Denying access to proper care until a time that we meet some arbitrary amount of qualifiers on a check-list puts us at a larger risk to hate crimes and suicide, and we already have an astronomically high statistical rate of both.

 

We are a marginalised community that struggles with being seen for who we are by people obsessed with what we have in our pants. All we want is to be seen as, and treated as the gender we are. Some will say that their gender is their sex, others will acknowledge that the two are at odds with eachother. Please understand that it is a very personal, often major part of who we are, and having another person attack the very fibre of our being for the words we use to describe ourselves can be incredibly hurtful.

[Obscure_Trash]

-snipped for space-

I don't do much with GLAAD, but I really like the snippets you provided from them! Excellent advice on some common courtesy that many people don't utilize, unfortunately.

 

I hope you found a better healthcare provider and got the HRT you needed?

[Omen]

I don't do much with GLAAD, but I really like the snippets you provided from them! Excellent advice on some common courtesy that many people don't utilize, unfortunately.

 

I hope you found a better healthcare provider and got the HRT you needed?

Thank you, the quotes aren't my words but they are similar to my thoughts. I see all too often stories of instances where trans people have been asked such questions or considered abnormalities that need only mental treatment for a derangement of the brain. I struggle with self image enough without being compared to an impossible standard, and I am thankful for each supportive person in my life.

 

Yes, I was able to gain access to HRT and without having to wait any longer than it took me to wait for my next doctor's appointment.

 

I returned to the clinic that I go to for trans healthcare but switched which doctor I saw as I felt my previous one had conflicting interests. I made an appointment and went in armed with a section of the WPATH Standards of Care, specifically the section regarding HRT. I intended to use that to argue my case against why I thought it was unfair and unnecessary to make me wait for HRT, along with the intention to ask for HRT via the Informed Consent model.

 

Unbeknownst to me, the Psychiatrist had diagnosed me with Gender Identity Disorder (an outdated term as of the DSM V) and said as much in their letter to my doctor. I did not need to argue my case or use the informed consent model as my doctor thought the diagnosis was enough to begin treatment. They asked the expected questions as to whether or not I understood what HRT does and cannot do, and I received a prescription for HRT that same appointment. I returned to my primary care provider the day after to begin HRT, as the clinic I go to for trans related healthcare is several hours away and it wasn't possible for me to go there as often as my HRT regime called for.

 

In future I'll be going to the other Psychiatrist that I received a referral for (of whom my Psychologist has praised for their knowledge and experience), or to one with positive reviews from trans patients.

[Obscure_Trash]

Thank you, the quotes aren't my words but they are similar to my thoughts. I see all too often stories of instances where trans people have been asked such questions or considered abnormalities that need only mental treatment for a derangement of the brain. I struggle with self image enough without being compared to an impossible standard, and I am thankful for each supportive person in my life.

 

Yes, I was able to gain access to HRT and without having to wait any longer than it took me to wait for my next doctor's appointment.

 

I returned to the clinic that I go to for trans healthcare but switched which doctor I saw as I felt my previous one had conflicting interests. I made an appointment and went in armed with a section of the WPATH Standards of Care, specifically the section regarding HRT. I intended to use that to argue my case against why I thought it was unfair and unnecessary to make me wait for HRT, along with the intention to ask for HRT via the Informed Consent model.

 

Unbeknownst to me, the Psychiatrist had diagnosed me with Gender Identity Disorder (an outdated term as of the DSM V) and said as much in their letter to my doctor. I did not need to argue my case or use the informed consent model as my doctor thought the diagnosis was enough to begin treatment. They asked the expected questions as to whether or not I understood what HRT does and cannot do, and I received a prescription for HRT that same appointment. I returned to my primary care provider the day after to begin HRT, as the clinic I go to for trans related healthcare is several hours away and it wasn't possible for me to go there as often as my HRT regime called for.

 

In future I'll be going to the other Psychiatrist that I received a referral for (of whom my Psychologist has praised for their knowledge and experience), or to one with positive reviews from trans patients.

Glad to hear! Great that the second time around went smoother than expected. xP

[yamashta]

I consider the term 'cis' to be more 'identifying strongly with what you are at heart', not necessary identifying with/as your natal sex.

 

Like technically and by societal standards, I'm not cis.

 

I personally identify as cis, though.

[St. Jimmy]

I consider the term 'cis' to be more 'identifying strongly with what you are at heart', not necessary identifying with/as your natal sex.

I'm not really sure I understand... I am a man (for the most part) at heart. That is how I identify. But I'm not cis.

[yamashta]

I'm not really sure I understand... I am a man (for the most part) at heart. That is how I identify. But I'm not cis.

Okay so like:

 

I identify as a man. I identify as a cis man. A man who is comfortable with his assigned sex.

 

I personally am not comfortable with my assigned sex, but I identify as a man who would, if my natal sex were correct.

 

I don't identify as 'trans'. I am trans, but I don't identify as 'trans'. 'Trans' is not a gender, nor is cis. They're just labels.

 

I identify as a cis man, even if by societal standards I am not one.

[Switch]

Huh that's new. I wouldn't really call myself cis since im trans but I guess it's just personal preference