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Just curious, what are non-binary or trans peoples opinion on separated bathrooms? Do you just avoid them? Or...

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My school has a unisex bathroom, and I prefer that one. I personally wish we could ditch separate bathrooms and depend on people to have common sense, but I think we all know how that would go.

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I am not even trans/nonbinary, and I support ditching separate toilet rooms. Most of the time, people are doing their business in cabins, and only the sinks and mirrors are shared, anyway (males feeling too uncomfortable to use "open" urinals seems to be fairly common, too). Shared toilets are somewhat common around here, and surprisingly enough, no issues. I've also noticed that in many smaller places, people simply ignore the signs even when they are present and simply use the closest vacant one, and otherwise just occasionally accidentally use the wrong one - at least one circumstantial acquaintance of mine managed to use two different bathrooms designated for the opposite sex out of sheer absentmindedness in the same day...

Edited by Shienvien

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Just curious, what are non-binary or trans peoples opinion on separated bathrooms? Do you just avoid them? Or...

I'm non binary and I just don't use gendered loos. I'm at a point where visually my presentation would place me decisively in one but my voice would have people sending me to the other, and neither feels even nearly right from a 'where do I feel like I belong?' standpoint.

 

I can understand why women especially might be unwilling to use multi-occupancy unisex toilets but single-occupancy accessible toilets IMO should always be unisex and should be an option everywhere.

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Just curious, what are non-binary or trans peoples opinion on separated bathrooms? Do you just avoid them? Or...

So while I've only identified as nonbinary for six months, I've had almost a lifetime of masculine-ish gender expression. I don't like separated bathrooms, but I don't get much of a choice with urinary incontinence issues (TMI, I know). Everywhere I go it's either use the male, female or gender neutral disabled bathroom. I hate taking the disabled bathroom away from people who are worse off than me and need the rails and stuff to use the toilet (been there, not fun), so I'm stuck with going to the female bathroom where I get the stink eye (or worse, the you're in the wrong toilet statement that's awkward for the person who mentions it and incredibly embarrassing for me), or the male bathroom where I'm not comfortable with using, although I have used it when I thought nobody was in there.

 

I short, hate it. I'm in there to to use the toilet, not for anything else. Most of the time I rush in there, head down and duck into an available stall as quickly as possible. I had a kid look behind themselves frequently one time with a terrified expression because I was "following" them into the bathroom. I felt horrible for the rest of the day for having to do something I couldn't really control. :|

 

I'd love for more gender neutral bathrooms everywhere. There's one at the shopping centre behind my house but again, it's a disabled bathroom. I've gotten away with not being attacked physically so far, but the verbal comments do hurt. A lot. If I could control my bladder better, I'd avoid using separate toilets altogether. Unfortunately life sucks and I have to deal with what I have. Could be worse, could have no control whatsoever. Ugh, sorry for the bitterness, it isn't directed at anyone here.

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I'm going to just post a warning now that this may be a touchy subject for some of you. My younger brother (who is a male, was born a male, is attracted to females) is having this problem with a co-worker of his who is a trans female. She continues to flirt and hit on him at work and text him outside of work and it makes him extremely uncomfortable. He's voiced that to her but then she accuses him of being transphobic and pretty much insinuates that if he doesn't reciprocate intrest then he's being driscrimanatory. He's the supervisor there and he doesn't really want to fire her or get her in trouble for sexual harassment cause he's a nice guy. So he's not sure where to go with the situation at this point.

 

My advice to him was he has to do what he has to do. I'd fire her on the spot if it was me. That behvaior from anyone wouldn't be tolerated at my place of work. He's not interested in her at all. He's only interested in I guess what is refered to as cisgender female? (Always been a female and identify as female) I mean it's not like he can just turn on an attraction for someone who is trans.

 

I guess what it boils down to is do you guys have any advice on how to nicely get her to back off? I feel bad for my brother and I'd like to help him. I thought maybe you all might have some different advice or way to approach the issue. He isn't on DC and doesn't know I am asking but I figure i'll be a good sister and see if I can help him more. Even if it was through advice on a "silly petsite" as he calls it. :/

 

Apologies if I unintentionally upset anyone. I have no problem with how anyone chooses to identify and even if I don't always understand it I can accept it. I just thought maybe some of you might have better advice because he really doesn't want to make things worse then they already are or fire her if he doesn't have to. He's too nice sometimes.

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As I see it, it is a matter that has nothing to do with the sex/gender of people. If the person - any person - who approaches you doesn't back down after being repeatedly told that sorrily you're not interested, then it becomes sexual harassment.

 

It does not matter whether it is a female woman whom he is not interested in persistently approaching him even after he has said no, or a trans woman that he is not interested in persistently approaching him even after he has said no, or a gay man whom he is not interested in persistently approaching him even after he has said no, or some other combination of gender and sex whom he is not interested in persistently approaching him even after he has said no - if they refuse to take a no it is sexual harassment. It is the same situation. Not interested is not interested is not interested is not interested. If a person you're not interested in continues to make advances on you, it is not "phobic" to tell them to back down, and report them if they won't listen, regardless of their sex and gender.

 

I'd say that if she persists, definitely report her. He can try telling her one more time that it has nothing to do who she is, but that he simply does not have feelings towards her, but at this point - from the impression I'm getting - it wouldn't probably make a difference...

 

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If there's an HR department where he works, he needs to get in touch with them and explain the situation, and have them advise him on the correct procedures involved with sexual harrassment, and it is, quite clearly, sexual harassment. He needs to do it -now-. He's already tried telling her to back off, and she's refused. She's more than had enough warning.

 

He also needs to document instances (what was said, time, and date - the more detail the better) so that he has a paper trail. The texts themselves can be useful, especially if he's explicitly told her that he's not interested and to please stop contacting him.

 

How she perceives his rejection is her problem, not his, and is quite possibly using her status to blackmail him via discrimination policies and the implied threat that she'll report him for such. This is also another reason why he absolutely needs to go to HR.

 

Trans or not, sexual harassment is unacceptable regardless, and if he reports her first, it's far better than what he'll have to deal with if she makes good on the implied threat.

 

Let me annotate this by saying that I have nothing against trans people, and that the vast majority aren't predatory. But this woman is clearly trying to use her status as a weapon to get what she wants. People can be rotten, regardless of their status.

Edited by Omega Entity

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As I see it, it is a matter that has nothing to do with the sex/gender of people. If the person - any person - who approaches you doesn't back down after being repeatedly told that sorrily you're not interested, then it becomes sexual harassment.

 

It does not matter whether it is a female woman whom he is not interested in persistently approaching him even after he has said no, or a trans woman that he is not interested in persistently approaching him even after he has said no, or a gay man whom he is not interested in persistently approaching him even after he has said no, or some other combination of gender and sex whom he is not interested in persistently approaching him even after he has said no - if they refuse to take a no it is sexual harassment. It is the same situation. Not interested is not interested is not interested is not interested. If a person you're not interested in continues to make advances on you, it is not "phobic" to tell them to back down, and report them if they won't listen, regardless of their sex and gender.

 

I'd say that if she persists, definitely report her. He can try telling her one more time that it has nothing to do who she is, but that he simply does not have feelings towards her, but at this point - from the impression I'm getting - it wouldn't probably make a difference...

Yeah I completely agree with you. That was pretty much my advice to him too. I think he's afraid she'll try and make this into some big thing so I told him to save the texts she's sent him and to document everything else. Including asking people who may have been around when any conversations happened if they would mind writing statements. Ugh.

 

He's supervisor of that department so technically he's the one who has to deal with all that stuff normally so I guess he'd have to take it to his boss? Such a mess. :/ He feels bad about the whole thing but his right for the workplace to be free of harassment is being infringed on so he has every right to rectify the situation IMHO.

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I've edited my post. Please see above.

I just read it Omega thanks. :3 Thanks you two. I appreciate the feedback! I'll keep pressing that advice to him and hope he sees it as his best option. I might show him your replies so he sees that I'm not the only one with that advice. I know he feels bad but I feel that no one has the right to act this way to another person or threaten no matter who they are. I just wondered if anyone had a more peaceful solution (even though I doubted there was one) so I thought I'd ask for his sake.

 

Thank you guys again and I'll stop highjacking your thread now. Sorry!

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For some background, I'm a keyholder (low-ranking manager) for a store in a large corporation. My advice is based on the HR standards and employee handbook regarding the handling of sexual harassment within our company. If policies where he works are anything like ours, then what I said is possibly the best course of action he can take smile.gif

Edited by Omega Entity

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I'm going to just post a warning now that this may be a touchy subject for some of you. My younger brother (who is a male, was born a male, is attracted to females) is having this problem with a co-worker of his who is a trans female. She continues to flirt and hit on him at work and text him outside of work and it makes him extremely uncomfortable. He's voiced that to her but then she accuses him of being transphobic and pretty much insinuates that if he doesn't reciprocate intrest then he's being driscrimanatory. He's the supervisor there and he doesn't really want to fire her or get her in trouble for sexual harassment cause he's a nice guy. So he's not sure where to go with the situation at this point.

 

My advice to him was he has to do what he has to do. I'd fire her on the spot if it was me. That behvaior from anyone wouldn't be tolerated at my place of work. He's not interested in her at all. He's only interested in I guess what is refered to as cisgender female? (Always been a female and identify as female) I mean it's not like he can just turn on an attraction for someone who is trans.

 

I guess what it boils down to is do you guys have any advice on how to nicely get her to back off? I feel bad for my brother and I'd like to help him. I thought maybe you all might have some different advice or way to approach the issue. He isn't on DC and doesn't know I am asking but I figure i'll be a good sister and see if I can help him more. Even if it was through advice on a "silly petsite" as he calls it. :/

 

Apologies if I unintentionally upset anyone. I have no problem with how anyone chooses to identify and even if I don't always understand it I can accept it. I just thought maybe some of you might have better advice because he really doesn't want to make things worse then they already are or fire her if he doesn't have to. He's too nice sometimes.

Harassment is harassment regardless of gender identity.

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No matter the gender, harassment is still harassment. It would be the same if the person was a cis female and he had told her to stop. The situation should be handled in the same way.

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*SOME allies. Not all allies :C. Broad statements can equally be hurtful and discriminative.

 

Which is exactly why I avoid posting in places like this even if I'm part of the 'community' ;;;;; I feel like it turns into a bashing party and that makes me very uncomfortable because not everyone who has a different opinion than ours is a 'bad guy'. I have many friends and even family that might not agree with me, what I do, who I identify as, my lifestyle, etc, but we can still find middle ground and get along with each other and even love each other. It's always a two-way street.

 

Of course I'm not saying we can't complain about things! I just feel like generalizations are made all too often which is what we're trying to fight in the first place, isn't it?

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Okay, point of interest, we are actively oppressed, it's natural and healthy to be pissed at our oppressors. This does not mean all allies are bad, but there's been enough damaging attitudes that we are allowed to be naturally wary of people who claim to be allies. Generalizations are the only way I can communicate this kind of frustration.

 

Yeah, we can get along with people who don't agree, but that doesn't change the fact that their opinions are discriminatory or transphobic, and thus, harmful to us.

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I was not generalizing, I was referring to the specific allies on CS who are rude attention-hogs.

Although I do feel very uncomfortable talking to someone who doesn't want me to have the same rights as them. That goes far beyond simply having a different opinion and I am unwilling to find a middle ground with these types of people.

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Gotta love how people ignore the answers you give them because "I don't agree with it". Hilarious. /sarcasm

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Hm...I feel like I'm being misinterpreted :C

 

I'm merely saying that not everyone who has a different opinion is transphobic/racist/discriminative/etc and out to 'get us'. My father is not homophobic just because he doesn't agree with my sexuality as he is not outwardly hurting anyone by having an opinion. If he ACTED on his opinion and fought to have laws stay the same and preached that any non-heterosexual lifestyle was hurting family values and this country THEN he is phobic and that is wrong.

 

There certainly is a difference between 'not agreeing with' and 'being against'. I know you guys probably realize this, but I just want to get it out there again in case.

 

Something can only harm us if we allow it to. Otherwise we can meet it head on with a sense of clarity, logic, and serenity. :3

Edited by Slater_C

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Except...that's literally the definition of homophobia? Not agreeing with your sexuality is homophobic.They are still the same beliefs as the peope who are hurting us every day, and that's not okay.

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Hm...I feel like I'm being misinterpreted :C

 

I'm merely saying that not everyone who has a different opinion is transphobic/racist/discriminative/etc and out to 'get us'. My father is not homophobic just because he doesn't agree with my sexuality as he is not outwardly hurting anyone by having an opinion. If he ACTED on his opinion and fought to have laws stay the same and preached that any non-heterosexual lifestyle was hurting family values and this country THEN he is phobic and that is wrong.

 

There certainly is a difference between 'not agreeing with' and 'being against'. I know you guys probably realize this, but I just want to get it out there again in case.

 

Something can only harm us if we allow it to. Otherwise we can meet it head on with a sense of clarity, logic, and serenity. :3

hhh yes i agree with this; in a perfect world everyone would like everyone but considering how things are rn counting the little victories is rly important!!! my parents are the same and my dad and i dont rly get along bc he visibly acts upon it, but i can tell mom's trying but it's a concept that for some reason has just been twisted to think its too weird and hard to understand but ye ah ,,,,,,,,,, what's important is important!!

 

hoo o o boy i'm always late to the party

 

hello!!! you can call me lady or fata i'm ok with anything but most ppl choose the latter since lady is too weird apparently??? tht's ok

 

my gender is ?????? ye ah, still trying to figure it out rn but mainly i'm ok w/ she/they and another tht i'll only give out if i know you / know you support the thingything *waves arms around*

 

nice to meet everyone!!!! a safe place is rly nice heck yeah i like this idea

i'm so sorry for the state of my grammar i'm used to typing like this but if you want me to step it up or i'm breaking a rule a) im so sorry pls splash me w cold water and b ) of course!!! just tell me please aa

Edited by Lady_Lunevis

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I certainly never wanted to start an argument (I was only expressing things as calmly as I could and genuinely feel no rules were broken; I only felt hurt), so I deleted my previous post as this IS a safe place and there is no need to engage that conversation any more. :3

 

I also feel like I have a right to be here too and be comfortable so I've taken a breather and have come back to respond to this:

 

hhh yes i agree with this; in a perfect world everyone would like everyone but considering how things are rn counting the little victories is rly important!!! my parents are the same and my dad and i dont rly get along bc he visibly acts upon it, but i can tell mom's trying but it's a concept that for some reason has just been twisted to think its too weird and hard to understand but ye ah ,,,,,,,,,, what's important is important!!

This! It really is little victories that count. I know my father loves to me to BITS but I just can't change how he feels about my sexuality and I've come to terms with that and we get a long great now. Yes, the topic makes us uncomfortable so we avoid it, but I rather salvage a relationship with him than press my views and vice-versa.

 

Anyway, it is nice to meet you Fata :3

 

I guess I'll do the intro thingie too haha.

 

I'm Ace! I really don't care what pronoun you use with me xd.png (Though 'he' or 'they' is hella but mainly I like to remain an enigma so whatever works for you works for me~)

Edited by Slater_C

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Ssso pronouns! Anybody want me to keep a list of everybody's on my first post here or somethin for reference would that be useful?? I'd be 100% up for it

 

yea!!! OO: i feel like this would be better to help ppl know how to refer to someone and to avoid certain circumstances

 

i use she/they, and another neopronoun tht if ppl feel comfortable using they can pm me for it!!!

 

I don't mind which pronouns are used, but it still sucks that I have to let my family assume I'm cisgender. I doubt they're even familiar with the term, though. My father's side of the family is especially bad... I've had to leave the room many times when my great grandmother would start complaining about "them gays and queers wantin' special treatment" any time a news story about the legalization of same-sex marriage or any similar topic would come on the television. She almost had a fit when she found out that a few of the friends I went out of state to visit a few years ago "just ain't normal", as she put it. I've already been pretty much disowned by part of my family for calling one of them out on an extreme case of racism, so I don't really want to lose what's left of my family... but it's a hard thing to ignore. If anyone has any advice on how to approach the subject, I'd welcome it.

 

//hugs// i'm really sorry to hear that :c

yeah,, for some reason it's just hard for older citizens to visibly wrap their head around such a concept, and it's rly upsetting for some reason.

//huggles// i don't know your family so it's hard for me to give good advice, but if you have any cousins/siblings/parents you're especially close to, you could bring up the subject!!! and if they're openminded enough, just gradually talk about it enough for them to understand where you're coming from. a lot of stigma stems from misunderstanding, and if they're willing to learn you can slowly talk to them about it and come out when the time is right. that's how i got my friends to know i love girls and guys so much like goodbye poly relationships hello i basically just dropped hints about how much i'd like to see percy and nico bang

sometimes, things just don't work out so i'm so sorry about that :c just try to keep your spirits up, alright?? we're all here for you and we'll refer to you with whatever pronoun you use, so just keep your head up high! one day you'll find a better environment in which to be accepted--and you already are here! c:

 

This! It really is little victories that count. I know my father loves to me to BITS but I just can't change how he feels about my sexuality and I've come to terms with that and we get a long great now. Yes, the topic makes us uncomfortable so we avoid it, but I rather salvage a relationship with him than press my views and vice-versa.

 

Anyway, it is nice to meet you Fata :3

 

yeah!!! a lot of people get rly caught up in fighting the huge idea and while that's good in its own way the little things count too!!

hh that's so great to hear!!! it's great that he still loves you so much omg sheds tears <33 yeah sometimes it's better to back off and see what you have; pressing views on someone else is a bit no thanks,,,

i just think that if their views aren't actively hurting someone then,,, they can have them??? its not ok if someones is like "NO LETS PUSH ALL THE QUEERS ONTO AN ISLAND" then that's like, friend, pls calmato, but like your dad if they're just unable to accept it but still being a good person, then it's all good!!!

nice to meet you ace!!!!! ; v ; i know this isnt the right place to say this but omg your art is so pretty frick hides face

 

 

i just woke up i'm sorry if none of my sentences make sense rest in peace

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@Fata: Oh gosh haha, you are a real sweetie ;////; Thank you <3

 

 

@keijaidyyn: Ugh, I feel that. Like Fata said, old people just don't want to change. The only advice I can give you stems from my own situation: My partner and I live with my grandmother because we take care of her and she....well...she's something else lol. She is racist and bigoted and biased and religious and oldschool ;;; but over the years and a billion arguments later she just will not change her views. Sadly we had to learn that the only way to live with her is to not feed into those kinds of discussions and to be the bigger person and walk away when things get heated (this is my advice with dealing with the elderly only lol; I definitely advocate saying your piece to all others and trying to reason with them and get them to at least acknowledge your view).

 

Unfortunately even family members can become toxic people in our lives and if for some reason people are just not accepting you, for your health and sanity you should try to distance yourself from said people ;____;

 

And then pretty much what Fata said because they are just amaze: Just know that you ARE loved! And you'll find the right footing in life, I promise!

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I just want to apologize if I came off as bitter or aggressive. I am extremely emotional and currently very fragile and I feel I've snapped at some of you, or that you might think I'm a bad or mean person. I'm absolutely horrible at communication, partly because I'm cognitively impaired most days and really easily overwhelmed. I exist in a state of constant anxiety, and tend to jump on people without thinking.

 

Basically if you think I'm a bad person, this is me agreeing with you. I am trash, and I know it. Sorry

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