Gender and Gender Identity

[St. Jimmy]

Hmm. Is anybody here genderqueer? If so, I'm curious to know what it's like. Does someone who's genderqueer feel like they have no gender?

 

I don't mean to offend anyone. I'm just curious.

*raises hand*

 

The only difference I've noticed is I can just be me; I don't have to worry about presenting myself as male or female. I also don't care which pronouns people use. I don't always feel like I have no gender, though. Occasionally I'll feel one way or the other. But I'm usually androgynous. (And it's different for every genderqueer person too- some really do have no gender at all.)

 

And don't worry, you're not being offensive. It's okay to be curious, and I'm willing to answer any questions.

[Ruins]

Is there a word for "Doesn't feel like anything, frankly"?

 

I suppose you could call me a mehsexual, as in I don't feel male or female, just... Human. Yeah, I don't mind being a girl, it's alright- I mean I can do my hair up nice with bright colours, wear nice dresses and cool shoes- but on the other hand, I think I'd be exactly the same if I were a boy. If I woke up tomorrow as a boy, I think once I got used to things like going to the toilet and such, my only thought would be "Cool, now I can grow that beard I've always wanted! And wear a cool suit! Awesome!"; I probably wouldn't have to change my wardrobe much, either, since I usually wear jeans and T-shirts. Sometimes I have dreams where I'm a boy and I don't care, which is strange. (And I'm pretty sure I'm asexual because I find the idea of having sex squicky beyond words, but I don't mind looking at a handsome man, or even a pretty girl.)

 

I suppose this might come from my beliefs- I believe that the nature of the 'essential self' is nothing to do with the body that we inhabit right now. It's eternal and essentially genderless- sexuality is just part of being human, as in being of this species and this current culture, and nothing to do with our 'real selves'. I have been male in the past and will probably be male in the future, but it just so happens that the body I have in this lifetime is female. It doesn't make ME female, when you get down to it, just my body. It's just temporary, so there's no point fussing about it and trying to impose what you think is the 'correct' gender onto other people... Does that make any sense?

 

I once heard a myth (I think it was Greek but I forget) in which somehow there were these splitting of souls into two parts- the male and the female. 'Male' males and 'female' females only had one half and had to seek out the other in someone of the opposite gender, but some had both halves- they were the homo-, bi- and pan-sexuals, if I remember rightly. (Or did homosexuals have an opposite gender soul? I really need to find that myth again...)

Edited April 29, 2012 by Ruins

[thegreenrobby]

I'm physically male, consider myself male, but don't act 100% male. I have my more... feminine... side, too.

[Wookieinmashoo]

Hmm. Is anybody here genderqueer? If so, I'm curious to know what it's like. Does someone who's genderqueer feel like they have no gender?

 

I don't mean to offend anyone. I'm just curious.

Not gender queer, but I'm gender neutral. It's entirely hard to explain. Growing up I never felt belonging to either "side" but I always attempted to interact with both. I genuinely felt confused when I tried to play with one side and wasn't "accepted". I also grew up on a block that only had two families so I couldn't be picky with playmates. One family had a girl that was okay and her brother was, to put it "not nice". Another family had one girl that was content with playing with me, but her brother often wanted to join and was a bit pushy and whiny. I for some reason wanted to to play with "neutral" toys; ones that would be difficult assigning a gender to. The hotwheel cars were fun, but when the girl I knew wanted to play, she insisted on barbies...so I had to get creative and found a skateboard and pretended it could talk. It wasn't that I detested playing female or male roles it's just that I had no interested in playing as male or female because it just didn't make sense to me. So I was content with non gender objects and playing as animals I now realized I never assigned a gender to.

 

Then everyone started growing up and listening to music and didn't want to go on adventures...so all I had was myself. I don't think it helped that I had a "growing roadblock" and started interacting and being friends with people 4 years younger than me.

 

Going through college I just didn't feel male or female mentally applied to me. I guess i showed characteristics of both, but mentally I never felt I "belonged" to either side. I look at my body and I don't think "I need to be female!" or "I know I should be male". No body parts feel out of place...they're just blah. It's just a body. I guess it can be seen as being apathetic in general towards gender identity. I just don't see a reason for at least me to feel like it's important at all. That may be the reason I find transgendered people interesting because I can never fully understand what makes them male or female. On the same note I don't care what people's sexes are, especially on the internet. Just give me a pronoun to call you by and that's all I need to know.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Wookieinmashoo

[Princess Artemis]

To put it another way - when did you realise you were a girl? How would you feel if you suddenly start growing a beard?

I can answer that! For a while there, due to hormonal wackiness, I did have some pretty thick peach-fuzz on one side of my face that was stiff enough and noticeable enough to shave, and the hair on my arms started feeling like sandpaper it got so thick. Got kinda dark too.

 

How I felt was hella irritated because it was all scratchy and yeti-like and OMG more shaving I do not even want divots on my face I put enough of them on my legs. I asked some male friends for shaving advice because they, obviously, had been doing it longer than I had. What I did not feel was any soul-level discomfort with it.

 

I do not know if this is because my gender isn't terribly important to me or not. Fortunately medication made it all go away, so I don't know how I'd feel if I was stuck with it...I think I'd probably be all hella irritated because scratchy argh gah yetiness.

[Celebi112]

I don't know... I'm not genderqueer, but I think of myself as kind of a tomboy. I swordfight w/ my bros, play slightly (or really) bloody video games, and tend to be a little... er, agressive. What would that be? I consider myself a girl, and obviously I am a girl, but...

[St. Jimmy]

If you consider yourself a girl, and present yourself that way, I'd say you're a girl. You don't have to wear dresses and do "girly" things to be one.

[Bardess]

I'm female. Or rather: I thought that I was entirely female until I read this thread.

 

Now I'm confronted with the strange realization that, if I woke up one day as a man, I... wouldn't mind. I think.

And this is strange because I'm very obviously female. Both clothing and interests are what you might call faminine. Though not entirely so, as I prefer plain clothes, never quite liked fluffy "cute" animlas (ravens, snakes and wolves are much better!) and have a strong interest in science.

But if I woke up male and knew I'd stay so I'd buy myself adequate clothes (plain, of course), redecorate my room in a more masculine way (less red and flowers and instead more blue and perhaps posters with awesome landscapes) and put a greater emphasis on my more masculine interests.

All in all it wouldn't make such a difference to me - well, ok, so a difference it would make, but it wouldn't bother me.

 

I find it even more strange as I'm very, very sure I'm heterosexual and think that I would stay heterosexual if I was a male.

Really, I have the feeling that to me sexuality is entirely dependent on the existence or absence of male or female bits, which by the way define my sex which then I accept as my gender.

 

I'm perfectly happy to be female and even like to stress this point.... but... really, thinking about it it doesn't really matter.

[Shienvien]

What you like and what activities you prefer play absolutely no role in what gender you are.

 

 

[Bardess]

What you like and what activities you prefer play absolutely no role in what gender you are.

Yes. I know.

 

I'm just surprised that apparently I adjust my interests to my gender. I have interests in both "male" and "female" areas, but I deliberately emphasize my feminine interests. And I just know I'd partly change my interests if I changed to be a male.

 

My realization is, as I said, thus:

Really, I have the feeling that to me sexuality is entirely dependent on the existence or absence of male or female bits, which by the way define my sex which then I accept as my gender.

Just... this. I'm female, but somehow only because it is my sex. If I was of male sex my gender would certainly also be male. To my mind, it doesn't really matter. Everything that goes above my sex is just filling material decorated according to social conventions, and anything but definite.

 

And this is a very, very new thought to me.

[Obscure_Trash]

What you like and what activities you prefer play absolutely no role in what gender you are.

This. Nobody ever told me this and it took me a long time to figure it out on my own and accept it. That I could wear skirts and sword fight at the same time. That I could play barbies and hot wheels at the same time. That I could be both feminine and masculine at the same time - that everybody is and that it's normal. That what makes you you is not what aisle you buy your clothes or your toys from. I don't know if I would have accepted that sooner if somebody had told me that, but I wish somebody had figured out that's what I was struggling with, sat me down, and just talked to me about that. <3

[TikindiDragon]

Just... this. I'm female, but somehow only because it is my sex. If I was of male sex my gender would certainly also be male. To my mind, it doesn't really matter. Everything that goes above my sex is just filling material decorated according to social conventions, and anything but definite.

Perhaps for you. But the mere existence of those of us that feel completely alien in our own bodies really should say that gender is not just about social conventions.

[Kelkelen]

This. Nobody ever told me this and it took me a long time to figure it out on my own and accept it. That I could wear skirts and sword fight at the same time. That I could play barbies and hot wheels at the same time. That I could be both feminine and masculine at the same time - that everybody is and that it's normal. That what makes you you is not what aisle you buy your clothes or your toys from. I don't know if I would have accepted that sooner if somebody had told me that, but I wish somebody had figured out that's what I was struggling with, sat me down, and just talked to me about that. <3

Exactly the same for me. When I was younger (middle school and high school), I really struggled with gender -- I was so aware of how looked-down-on it was to be feminine ("girly," i hate that word, it's so derogatory) that I unconsciously tried to shun those things. I went for several years without ever wearing dresses or skirts to school, and tried not to let anyone know about the "girly" things I liked, like fairies, or doing crafts, or any "girl movies."

 

I feel bad, looking back on it, because I was accidentally buying into the whole patriarchal sexist thing; I was trying so hard to be "not girly" because I didn't like being mocked for it, but that just meant I was tacitly enforcing the idea that being feminine was a bad, lesser thing -- I felt like I always had to prove to the guys around me that I was a "good" female, not like those "girly" females that the boys saw as just not good enough because they didn't do "guy things," and "girl things" were automatically inferior.

 

I always liked a wide range of things, but I felt like I could only publicly own up to the "boy things" -- like they were the only ones that were to my credit. If I had been Socky, I would have talked with people about how I used to play hot wheels and how I wanted to learn fencing, but I wouldn't have mentioned the feminine things I liked, like Barbies or dresses, because the people around me wouldn't have valued them.

 

I should have just talked about those, too, and treated them as equally valuable -- and insisted that other people treat them likewise.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Kelkelen

[Amberfly]

What you like and what activities you prefer play absolutely no role in what gender you are.

True, but for a lot of people gender is an abstract idea, something we understand about ourselves but have trouble articulating to others. So we fall back on socially defined "boy stuff" and "girl stuff" to try and explain it.

 

Me, I'm lucky. I'm female, both sex and gender, and I've never had any doubts about that or wanted to be anything else. But I don't think I could explain why I have that attitude to someone who doesn't share it.

[kiffren]

This. Nobody ever told me this and it took me a long time to figure it out on my own and accept it. That I could wear skirts and sword fight at the same time. That I could play barbies and hot wheels at the same time. That I could be both feminine and masculine at the same time - that everybody is and that it's normal. That what makes you you is not what aisle you buy your clothes or your toys from. I don't know if I would have accepted that sooner if somebody had told me that, but I wish somebody had figured out that's what I was struggling with, sat me down, and just talked to me about that. <3

Wouldn't it be nice if children weren't put into blue or pink clothes starting from young ages? People try so hard to define what a child's sex is by what they wear and what they play with. Just let your kids be kids and not worry about "gender" norms. (Yes, I know I'm using gender wrong there.)

[Shienvien]

So we fall back on socially defined "boy stuff" and "girl stuff" to try and explain it.

Does it need explanations? I feel I am this gender, thus I am this gender. I know my mind would have immense problems with being in the wrong body, and overall I simply know what I am.

 

From the moment on when I would try to determine my gender after the things I do or like, things would get confusing, as in the above examples, especially since I almost exclusively seem to fall to the categories generally associated with the opposite sex/gender. Good that I had such accepting parents and society around me, I tell!

[Amberfly]

Does it need explanations? I feel I am this gender, thus I am this gender. I know my mind would have immense problems with being in the wrong body, and overall I simply know what I am.

 

From the moment on when I would try to determine my gender after the things I do or like, things would get confusing, as in the above examples, especially since I almost exclusively seem to fall to the categories generally associated with the opposite sex/gender. Good that I had such accepting parents and society around me, I tell!

I think we mean the same thing. People often ask why others feel the way they do about their gender, and those others have a hard time explaining "I just feel that way." So they fall back on traditional, somewhat stereotypical activities to define gender. At least that's how I see it.

 

I think it's hard for a lot of people to define what gender really means without referring to activities. That was my point, sorry if I offended anyone.

[Astralite]

I like being a female, even though I'm not very good at it. That is, time to time I enjoy dresses and I really love little cute things but I am a fairly masculine person beyond those little quirks. I don't suppose I know myself well enough to block off any probabilities or close any doorways yet, so, I'll leave it as that.

[Obscure_Trash]

What does it mean to "not be good at" being female or "not be good at" being male? O______o

 

Just because you don't wear dresses doesn't make you female. Both men and women should be able to wear dresses when and where they like. Doesn't change their sex or their gender.

[Shienvien]

Defining gender after likes and activities is exactly what I am advocating breaking out of.

 

The fact that I own no skirts and only one dress and haven't worn the latter for dozen years, that I never wear makeup or dye my hair, that I can name and explain the functions of every piece of a gun, computer or car, but know almost nothing of the current fashion, that I play computer games and preferred cars and constructing things over dolls when a child, et cetera, et cetera does not make me any less of a woman, and I disagree with the notion that those things make me 'less feminine'.

 

(Though people over the net have been surprised that I, in fact, am a straight woman in a woman's body. )

[Amberfly]

Agreed! The fact that I actually like a lot of traditionally female things (dresses, makeup, etc.) doesn't mean that tomboys aren't just as feminine. They're just women with different tastes than me.

 

Though, I always did have more fun with Legos than Barbies =)

[Wookieinmashoo]

I guess it's just me, but I never really associate much of anything with genders. I honestly don't understand why there are so many girls that hate skirts. Don't they like feeling "naked" underneath and getting away with it?

[Faith_the_vampire_slayer]

What does it mean to "not be good at" being female or "not be good at" being male? O______o

 

Just because you don't wear dresses doesn't make you female. Both men and women should be able to wear dresses when and where they like. Doesn't change their sex or their gender.

I agree with this. I myself identify as androgynous (whatever the term is for not identifying as either gender), so I understand not being very "feminine". But to say you're "not very good at it" is kinda confusing.

 

There are some situations where I think it wouldn't be very appropriate to wear certain things. However, I don't really care much about what someone's wearing (as long as it's not someone close to me ). What a person dresses like if their problem.

[elderberrysyrup]

I guess it's just me, but I never really associate much of anything with genders. I honestly don't understand why there are so many girls that hate skirts. Don't they like feeling "naked" underneath and getting away with it?

Ionno, as a person of female sex and screwy-not-going-there gender, I despise skirts because they make me uncomfortable. I can't roll around, romp, jump, lay down, etc as I want without worrying about the skirt hiking up or showing my undies.

[Shienvien]

I honestly don't understand why there are so many girls that hate skirts.

I've never worn skirts/dresses simply because I find those far less comfortable than pants, no other reasons. I couldn't imagine myself sitting as I do now in a skirt - on top of one foot and with the knee of the other leg drawn up to my chin.