Sexual Orientation

[Kestra15]

But if its a result of a certian condition doesnt that mean it can be changed ?

Sexuality is not a 'condition,' it's a state of being.

[The Evil Doer]

Being transgender is also, sometimes, the result of a condition, but that's not something that can be changed because it's part of development as a fetus.  It would be like trying to change the shape of someone's arm because the cause was a condition.  That doesn't work!

 

I don't know much about the conditions which asexuality is common in, but since people so often know their orientation from a very early age, it's pretty well set quick in any case.

 

I don't think there is any known cause otherwise, any more than there is a known cause for being any other orientation.

 

Well, the reason I had such a tough time understanding it and wondering whether there is a known cause is coz with other orientations the sex drive exists, goes in many directions but it still is there and with you guys it simply doesnt exist.

You did a great job explaining certain things though, thanks

 

I think it only seems like something missing because (I assume?) you are a sexual person so to you, it would be missing.  I'm not a sexual person, so to me, it is like adding something.  There's nothing missing from my POV.  That's not a POV of a person with a missing limb or something, because not being attracted to anyone does not inhibit my natural functioning in any way, it's not something to grow up learning to live around and compensate for.  Except that US society is so very sexual and it's a bit hard for me to navigate that aspect.  I grew up saying this or that person was 'hot' when I really did not have any idea what that really meant for other people.  What it meant to me was that person was aesthetically pleasing and I liked looking at them, not that they were, well, what other people meant when they say 'hot', so once I figured out we were not communicating the same thing, I stopped saying it that way.  I say pretty and handsome and beautiful now.

 

Yeah, understood it, thats why I asked whether you are born that way or do you become that way, of course you dont have to componsate for things you never needed nor had, makes perfect sense.

 

Not really, because to be sexual means I'd have to be attracted to people.  There's certainly nothing about being asexual that means I wouldn't enjoy sex.  I dunno, maybe I would.  I just have no compelling desire to find out.  Except for those handful of really bizarre and freaky moments, I've not been attracted to anyone.  Think of it this way--you're not attracted to guys, but there is nothing about that that physically prevents you from enjoying sex with guys, right?  It means you have no compelling desire to find out!

 

So no, I've had a little taste of heterosexual attraction and I hated it, no desire whatsoever to have more tastes.  I was curious about that, but didn't really want my curiosity satisfied, and now it is, and bleh! : )

 

Well Princess, those moments were freaky and bizzare simply coz you are not used to them (whenever experiencing something we've never felt before its freaky and bizzare), if you were to experience such emotions for half a year you would get used to it, maybe would even like it, thats why I assume your doctor was saying its a good thing, however I do hope you never go through it again as I understand you dont want it nor enjoy it, and thats all that matters.

 

Well, guys are missing a few vital organs so that would probably prevent me from enjoying sex with them, reaching a climax and enjoying something isn't the same thing, with guys its more "biological" than with girls, but yes, I did understand the point you were making.

 

Having sex...eh, I think most (not all!) people are curious, but I have lived without quite happily and I have other reasons why I don't really want to find out.  Desiring solitude over the companionship of a partner kinda means there's no point in getting close enough to anyone to satisfy any curiosity, plus there's so many risks involved and lots and lots of touching, ick.  Why go through the trouble when I've got no real compelling reason to?

 

Those are the exact reasons that make the whole thing so compelling to us.

 

I just wanted to make sure you knew it wasn't something to be looked at as 'curable'.  A lot of people do look at it that way, the way they used to and sometimes still do look at homosexuality.

 

Ohh, yeah, I didnt mean it in a sense of you need to be cured or you're broken or you're wrong in being what you are, its just that as I said, your orientation unlike the others is unique coz it simply has no sex drive, and from what I know its all about chemicals in the brain being released, so while he swings that way and I swing this way due to those chemicals, in your case there is no release at all, thats why I was wondering how come they didnt find a reason as to why that is missing because after all it is an anomaly of a sort, I mean reproduction is what keeps us kicking and screaming.

 

Now you actually did a great job of explaining, in my eyes it was - well she's missing out on one of the greatest things in life and basically its more like somebody telling me that humans could fly 100 years ago and asking me how come I dont miss flying.

 

I like liking my life a whole lot more than I enjoyed hating it : )  That sucked.  Not that there haven't been moments of stress and upset and whatnot over being asexual, there have been, but over all, I'm glad that's how I am and wouldn't want me any other way, now that I know what another way feels like.  It does help that I've not run across a lot of religious or familial trouble for it, plus knowing and being accepted for the oddball I am in other ways makes it easier to add one more oddball chip to the pile.  It's not the easiest thing being outside the norm, but lots of people get in a lot more trouble over their orientation than I ever have.

 

Thanks for asking so nicely.  AVEN has more info too, if you want to look there.  http://www.asexuality.org

 

Well, Im glad you've reached that good place in your life, I dont know how many chips are on that pile of yours but it doesnt really matter, out the norm within the norm, we all have issues of a sort and whoever is saying otherwise is simply lying, as long as you like yourself and your life and as long as you are a decent human being, all the rest is just irrelevant.

Giving trouble to people over orientation is just plain dumb, except for those cases when harm is involved and they just dont deserve to live, as simple as that.

 

Thanks for clarifying certain things, it actually does make more sense now

[The Evil Doer]

Sexuality is not a 'condition,' it's a state of being.

You missed what was said by Princess A.

Some have conditions in which asexuality is very common to coincide.

 

I wasnt referring to sexuality as a condition but was instead asking if a certain condition can cause that sexuality (like being born blind or experiencing a trauma to the head and becoming blind for example), got my answers though, off to read the AVEN site

Edited February 9, 2012 by The Evil Doer

[Princess Artemis]

Now you actually did a great job of explaining, in my eyes it was - well she's missing out on one of the greatest things in life and basically its more like somebody telling me that humans could fly 100 years ago and asking me how come I dont miss flying.

That's a good way to put it. I know other people think sexuality is the best thing ever, and that's great for them. Species wouldn't last long otherwise. I'll just stick to finding other things to be great in life.

 

To be very clear, I don't have any condition which asexuality is common alongside. Even if it did have a very obvious cause, it would still be a state of being, like Kestra said. Though that wasn't what you were asking, a lot of people do think that sexuality is a condition, so it's good to make a point of it.

 

 

[Lythiaren]

Well, the reason I had such a tough time understanding it and wondering whether there is a known cause is coz with other orientations the sex drive exists, goes in many directions but it still is there and with you guys it simply doesnt exist.

You did a great job explaining certain things though, thanks

Uh.

 

Asexuality and possession of a sex drive are not mutually exclusive. I am an ace. I also have a sex drive. I can manage it just fine by myself, and when I do so it's rarely, if ever, tied to thoughts of a particular person. And when that happens, for me it's tied to what they stand for and has nothing to do with their physical features or what have you.

 

The defining feature of asexuality is that we don't experience sexual attraction. That's it. It has nothing to do with one's sex drive or lack thereof; there are plenty of aces out there that like sex, but for example I don't look at an attractive person and want to get into their pants, nor do I feel that sex is a requirement for a meaningful relationship. I'm not sexually attracted to people of either sex. I'm just not. I've had crushes on people, sure, but it's never sexual in nature, I crush on them because of what I admire about their person. It is how it is and I'm not going to go look for a reason I don't feel this magical thing called "the hots", because this is 100% normal for me. Asking me why is like me asking you why you're sexually attracted to whatever sex you happen to fancy. You may think sex is great, and if so good for you. It probably is, but I just don't feel that kind of attraction. It's not a void, it's just something I don't have a feeling for. How do you miss out on something you don't even feel?

 

But the way you worded your posts made me think you were treating asexuality like some kind of disease. "Is it permanent?" Really? Do we ask people if heterosexuality is permanent? I know you're just curious and you were trying to phrase it as respectfully as possible, but wow. That... that question in particular really hurt. ._.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Lythiaren

[Viktorya]

I'm pansexual! I first thought I was bi (way back in 8th grade) but a few years later I learned about nonbinary genders/identities and realised I was actually pan

I'm also panromantic.

[Duke_Falcon]

So I've read what Princess A. said on the other page and, well I truly cant grasp the concept of asexuality and Im really as ignorant as one can possibly be on the topic so, enlighten me please.

 

Are people just born that way or is it some chemical or emotional reaction to an event or something of a sort ?

 

Is asexuality a condition ?

 

Is it permenant or can it be reversed ?

Asexuality is the result if no gender-specific hormonal influence happened during pregnancy thus the child's mind and biochemical system has no information how to work properly according to it's own gender. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is the result of the influence of wrong gender-specific hormons (male fetus got female-hormon influence and vice versa). These are hormonal disorders' results but not illnesses.

 

Asexuality could be reversed if the hormonal influence's absence discovered before birth (really hard to find it out) with hormon-therapy or after the birth until puberty with hormon therapy (question: how could you tell from a children she\he is asexual before she\he hit puberty? Almost no way to do so).

But it has no meaning since the threated person needs hormon-therapy all along his life even after her\his sexuality has restored. So it's way easier to accept such people the way they are and not try to cure them. If they are happy this way then it's fine. Humanity has no right to correct everything because the price of such corrections sometimes way to high.

Same goes for homosexuality. It could be reversed but it's meaningless. Let them live their life as they see fit.

 

And before you may ask other questions about this topic think about it: Will you ask these questions if you 'suffer' from such conditions?

I know you want to understand things but asking such questions in the presence of such conditioned people is maybe a bit rude. No offense, of course!

[Princess Artemis]

Asexuality is the result if no gender-specific hormonal influence happened during pregnancy thus the child's mind and biochemical system has no information how to work properly according to it's own gender. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is the result of the influence of wrong gender-specific hormons (male fetus got female-hormon influence and vice versa). These are hormonal disorders' results but not illnesses.

Where did you hear that? That sounds more like what theoretically causes some transgenderism.

 

Given that oftentimes one can figure out the orientation of a child as young as three, I don't see how hormone therapy would change it. Giving a gay cisgendered boy too many female hormones before puberty would cause him to develop a feminine body, not a feminine and heterosexual mind! It would also cause him no end of suffering to warp the body his mind matches.

[Viktorya]

Asexuality is the result if no gender-specific hormonal influence happened during pregnancy thus the child's mind and biochemical system has no information how to work properly according to it's own gender.  Homosexuality, on the other hand, is the result of the influence of wrong gender-specific hormons (male fetus got female-hormon influence and vice versa). These are hormonal disorders' results but not illnesses.

 

Asexuality could be reversed if the hormonal influence's absence discovered before birth (really hard to find it out) with hormon-therapy or after the birth until puberty with hormon therapy (question: how could you tell from a children she\he is asexual before she\he hit puberty? Almost no way to do so).

But it has no meaning since the threated person needs hormon-therapy all along his life even after her\his sexuality has restored. So it's way easier to accept such people the way they are and not try to cure them. If they are happy this way then it's fine. Humanity has no right to correct everything because the price of such corrections sometimes way to high.

Same goes for homosexuality. It could be reversed but it's meaningless. Let them live their life as they see fit.

 

And before you may ask other questions about this topic think about it: Will you ask these questions if you 'suffer' from such conditions?

I know you want to understand things but asking such questions in the presence of such conditioned people is maybe a bit rude. No offense, of course!

Whoa, hold on, you're pulling a lot of pseudoscience out of your butt here and I don't know where you're getting any of this information. Even if there is some hormonal cause for sexual orientation (or lack of it) that does NOT make it a disorder. My girlfriend is ace and she would probably punch you in the face for saying that she could be "restored".

There is nothing to cure (and why would you want to?) and there is nothing wrong with being ace or any other orientation. Homosexuality cannot be "reversed". I assume you're heterosexual--how would you feel if a bunch of homosexual people came up to you and told you that your sexual attraction was wrong, a disorder? That how you felt your entire life was fake and that you should be cured in order to become homosexual as well? You might be able to brush it off because this is just a forum on the internet, but trust me--if you were faced with this sort of thing CONSTANTLY in your daily life you would probably feel pretty awful.

I am pansexual (as I said in my previous post). I like girls. I like guys. I like non-binary people too. What exactly is wrong with that? Nothing. I don't suffer from anything. No one does unless they are forced into believing that they are living a lie because of their orientation. Then, yes, they will probably feel bad! And if they are also forced into therapy or anything else to "fix" them they will feel even worse, often suicidal.

Also, saying no offence only makes your entire post that much more offensive! Everything you said was incredibly rude to me (and I'm sure others as well). Don't act like you know everything about this if you yourself have never experienced it except from a prejudiced, outside view.

Sorry if this post came out angrier than I meant it to be, but I AM angry and offended.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Viktorya

[TikindiDragon]

Asexuality is the result if no gender-specific hormonal influence happened during pregnancy thus the child's mind and biochemical system has no information how to work properly according to it's own gender. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is the result of the influence of wrong gender-specific hormons (male fetus got female-hormon influence and vice versa). These are hormonal disorders' results but not illnesses.

Uh, no. That's transgender. Fetal hormones effect one's sense of self, not how one views the rest of the world. Said fetus that recieved the 'wrong' hormones for their sex would grow up to have the brain of one and the body of the other (female mind, male body etc). Transgendered people can be of any sexuality, although it would be correct to refer to it by their mental, not their physical gender.

 

I can accept that transgenderism is caused by a hormonal disorder during fetal development. And, yes, it probably would be kind if it could be caught an remedied before the child was born (because, really, no one wants to be trans). Unfortunately once the brain has fully developed hormone therepy really doesn't work to change that - there are several noteable cases where it was tried, and failed.

 

That said fetal hormones have no proven link to sexuality, at least as far as I'm aware. And giving kids hormone therapy usualy royally screws them up later in life.

[Viktorya]

Uh, no. That's transgender. Fetal hormones effect one's sense of self, not how one views the rest of the world. Said fetus that recieved the 'wrong' hormones for their sex would grow up to have the brain of one and the body of the other (female mind, male body etc). Transgendered people can be of any sexuality, although it would be correct to refer to it by their mental, not their physical gender.

 

I can accept that transgenderism is caused by a hormonal disorder during fetal development. And, yes, it probably would be kind if it could be caught an remedied before the child was born (because, really, no one wants to be trans). Unfortunately once the brain has fully developed hormone therepy really doesn't work to change that - there are several noteable cases where it was tried, and failed.

 

That said fetal hormones have no proven link to sexuality, at least as far as I'm aware. And giving kids hormone therapy usualy royally screws them up later in life.

First, please don't refer to any group of people (especially trans* people) as "it" unless they actually ask you to do so. It's pretty rude. (sorry if it was a mistake or if I'm reading it wrong, not trying to attack you, just pointing it out )

Another thing--there is no such thing as "physical gender". The "mental gender" IS the person's gender, regardless of their genitals. If you want to refer to them as the gender they are assigned you can say AFAB or AMAB (assigned female/male at birth). (For example: "James is an AFAB transgender man")

 

But here is where I get confused--you say that it would be good if the problem(!) was caught before birth and "fixed". What do you mean by this? If you mean that the person should be changed to identify as whatever gender they are assigned, well... in some cases it might work out, it that was possible, but you are making decisions for someone who CANNOT CONSENT to what you are doing. I don't know if you think that's morally wrong or not, but that's still a very big issue. There is no reason to forcibly change how they feel about themselves rather than raising them as the gender that they identify with (this may not even be male or female, raising even more issues if you were to "fix" them) and supporting them as the person that they are. If caught at an early age, hormone treatments can do incredible things to a body (especially if this happens before puberty). If the person is certain that they want to undergo treatment to make their body into something closer to what they desire, that's fine. Nothing should ever be forced on anyone before birth (or before they can decide for themselves) though.

 

But yeah, regardless of gender identity, sexual orientation is just completely different.

[Princess Artemis]

And before you may ask other questions about this topic think about it: Will you ask these questions if you 'suffer' from such conditions?

I know you want to understand things but asking such questions in the presence of such conditioned people is maybe a bit rude. No offense, of course!

Also also--the questions posed absolutely were ignorant questions, asked out of ignorance, but that's what this thread is for! It's to discuss orientation. If people can't ask questions in a thread about the subject they are curious about, even ignorant ones posed in very considerate fashion, where else shall they ask?

 

It seems to me that Evil Doer was doing things the right way. Got some ignorant but considerate questions answered in an appropriate thread for them and went off to learn some more elsewhere. That's encouraging!

[Viktorya]

Also also--the questions posed absolutely were ignorant questions, asked out of ignorance, but that's what this thread is for! It's to discuss orientation. If people can't ask questions in a thread about the subject they are curious about, even ignorant ones posed in very considerate fashion, where else shall they ask?

 

It seems to me that Evil Doer was doing things the right way. Got some ignorant but considerate questions answered in an appropriate thread for them and went off to learn some more elsewhere. That's encouraging!

Agreeing with all of this! Even if things are asked in an ignorant way or are unintentionally rude, the fact that someone was actually willing to listen to other people's opinions with an open mind is what matters. Yes, that might mean that the person asking might need to apologise for what they said if it was rude (once they learn why!), but that's okay. Everyone is welcome to ask questions to broaden their own knowledge of the subject! That's what forums and threads like this are for

[Shienvien]

Another thing--there is no such thing as "physical gender". The "mental gender" IS the person's gender, regardless of their genitals.

There is the person's sex, which indicates which genitalia one has.

Then, there is the gender, which indicates who one's brain considers the one to be.

- Both are equally physical as I see it. Out of the two, gender is not a matter of choice or a temporary flick of mood - it's the hardwiring in either case.

 

(Also, I am fairly certain that the 'that' in Tikindi's post referred to the term/label, and not the people who fall under the said term/label, so no objectification of people was done.)

[Viktorya]

There is the person's sex, which indicates which genitalia one has.

Then, there is the gender, which indicates who one's brain considers the one to be.

- Both are equally physical as I see it. Out of the two, gender is not a matter of choice or a temporary flick of mood - it's the hardwiring in either case.

 

(Also, I am fairly certain that the 'that' in Tikindi's post referred to the term/label, and not the people who fall under the said term/label, so no objectification of people was done.)

That's why I brought up AMAB/AFAB--genitalia is a factor, but not everyone is born with a penis or a vagina (there are intersex people, and others that just have less than "normal" genitalia) and sometimes it's hard to put a label on them. I'm not trying to say that physical sex isn't valid (it is) but it does not define gender. Sorry if what I said about that was confusing!

 

Also, as far as I know there is nothing physical that defines gender identity. Gender is fluid! I haven't seen anything that proves that what we identify with is "hardwired" in our brains (but if there is evidence I would like to see it!).

 

And this is what I was referring to:

Transgendered people can be of any sexuality, although it would be correct to refer to it by their mental, not their physical gender.

I might just be reading it wrong though?

[diannethegeek]

 

And this is what I was referring to:

 

I might just be reading it wrong though?

I read the "it" as referring back to their sexuality, not to the person. So: Transgendered people can be of any sexuality, although it would be correct to refer to [their sexuality] by their mental, not their physical gender.

[Viktorya]

I read the "it" as referring back to their sexuality, not to the person. So: Transgendered people can be of any sexuality, although it would be correct to refer to [their sexuality] by their mental, not their physical gender.

Oh, okay, my apologies then!

[CatCreature]

First, please don't refer to any group of people (especially trans* people) as "it" unless they actually ask you to do so. It's pretty rude. (sorry if it was a mistake or if I'm reading it wrong, not trying to attack you, just pointing it out )

Another thing--there is no such thing as "physical gender". The "mental gender" IS the person's gender, regardless of their genitals. If you want to refer to them as the gender they are assigned you can say AFAB or AMAB (assigned female/male at birth). (For example: "James is an AFAB transgender man")

 

But here is where I get confused--you say that it would be good if the problem(!) was caught before birth and "fixed". What do you mean by this? If you mean that the person should be changed to identify as whatever gender they are assigned, well... in some cases it might work out, it that was possible, but you are making decisions for someone who CANNOT CONSENT to what you are doing. I don't know if you think that's morally wrong or not, but that's still a very big issue. There is no reason to forcibly change how they feel about themselves rather than raising them as the gender that they identify with (this may not even be male or female, raising even more issues if you were to "fix" them) and supporting them as the person that they are. If caught at an early age, hormone treatments can do incredible things to a body (especially if this happens before puberty). If the person is certain that they want to undergo treatment to make their body into something closer to what they desire, that's fine. Nothing should ever be forced on anyone before birth (or before they can decide for themselves) though.

 

But yeah, regardless of gender identity, sexual orientation is just completely different.

It's interesting how you tell this to TIKI of all people.

[Duke_Falcon]

Whoa, hold on, you're pulling a lot of pseudoscience out of your butt here and I don't know where you're getting any of this information. Even if there is some hormonal cause for sexual orientation (or lack of it) that does NOT make it a disorder. My girlfriend is ace and she would probably punch you in the face for saying that she could be "restored".

That was rude as what I said I said because YOUR teachers taught me that in elementary school according YOUR scientific discoveries of the '80s. WE always deemed it utterly obsolate and false but since human science didn't said anything new about these things it's nothing to say without seem as cruel and rudely offensive. We, despised and hated by most of you, nobles has accurate views about these things but utterly not care.

And about your girlfriend... If she really able to do so it proves she is a true woman. Something I could accept and even support as this ability is quickly fading away in our misguided, patriarcal civilisation.

 

There is nothing to cure (and why would you want to?) and there is nothing wrong with being ace or any other orientation. Homosexuality cannot be "reversed". I assume you're heterosexual--how would you feel if a bunch of homosexual people came up to you and told you that your sexual attraction was wrong, a disorder? That how you felt your entire life was fake and that you should be cured in order to become homosexual as well? You might be able to brush it off because this is just a forum on the internet, but trust me--if you were faced with this sort of thing CONSTANTLY in your daily life you would probably feel pretty awful.

Now I take some time and read the very first post (I may start with that at the beginning, I know... Sorry) where I found this:

Asexual: Those who do not experience sexual attraction (can be homo-, hetero-, bi-, pan-, or asexual-asexual, meaning they also don't experience romantic attraction)

I never felt attraction of sex, never wanted to experience it and never even need it what means according human psichology is I am an asexual heterosexual (since I like girls and date them but seek only intellectual partners). But since some of my girlfriends WANT TO HAVE SEX they gave me no chance. I experienced what is sex but don't really care ever since. I'll mate them only because they wanted.

And if there will be the right time I will have children descent from my very DNA because it is my duty as it was duty to do as my girlfriends wished.

I learned that no matter what I wish or want. The only thing that is important what duty demands. I could be homo- hetero- bi- or whatever sexual it doesn't matter. If duty demands me to have children, my descendants carrying my DNA, then I have no choice. It's so easy for me since I trained, educated, conditioned this way.

And I'll never even think about suicide. Suicide is the most coward and ashaming thing in the whole universe. I never dare to disgrace my family, my bloodline with such an unacceptable act. If someone kill me, that's OK, but to kill myself? NEVER!!!

 

Also, saying no offence only makes your entire post that much more offensive! Everything you said was incredibly rude to me (and I'm sure others as well). Don't act like you know everything about this if you yourself have never experienced it except from a prejudiced, outside view.

I meant no offense only for this part:

I know you want to understand things but asking such questions in the presence of such conditioned people is maybe a bit rude.

But I could understand you assume I meant it for the whole post of mine. Sorry if I cause so misunderstanding but since english isn't my primer language I can't use it with acceptable efficiency...

 

Sorry if this post came out angrier than I meant it to be, but I AM angry and offended.

No. I'm sorry to cause you angry and feel offended. It was't my intention. But I must say I not understand you, common folks, why do you feel offended so often? Maybe my education made me a bit cold hearted and way to logical and thus care less about emotional effects. But believe me, I won't offend anyone! It's not my style to do so until someone provoke it out.

[TikindiDragon]

First, please don't refer to any group of people (especially trans* people) as "it" unless they actually ask you to do so. It's pretty rude. (sorry if it was a mistake or if I'm reading it wrong, not trying to attack you, just pointing it out )

Another thing--there is no such thing as "physical gender". The "mental gender" IS the person's gender, regardless of their genitals. If you want to refer to them as the gender they are assigned you can say AFAB or AMAB (assigned female/male at birth). (For example: "James is an AFAB transgender man")

 

But here is where I get confused--you say that it would be good if the problem(!) was caught before birth and "fixed". What do you mean by this? If you mean that the person should be changed to identify as whatever gender they are assigned, well... in some cases it might work out, it that was possible, but you are making decisions for someone who CANNOT CONSENT to what you are doing. I don't know if you think that's morally wrong or not, but that's still a very big issue. There is no reason to forcibly change how they feel about themselves rather than raising them as the gender that they identify with (this may not even be male or female, raising even more issues if you were to "fix" them) and supporting them as the person that they are. If caught at an early age, hormone treatments can do incredible things to a body (especially if this happens before puberty). If the person is certain that they want to undergo treatment to make their body into something closer to what they desire, that's fine. Nothing should ever be forced on anyone before birth (or before they can decide for themselves) though.

 

But yeah, regardless of gender identity, sexual orientation is just completely different.

That 'it' was a typo, as it happens. I was typing rather quickly at the time. And 'physical gender' should have read 'physical sex' which was certainly the phrase I was thinking of. Usualy gender = mental, sex = physical. Shows to go me I shouldn't type quick when I'm barely awake.

 

Incidently, as I think you're rather new (or at least I don't recognise you) I should probably point out at this juncture that I'm trans myself. Born female, clearly not mentally so. I think most people that have been around the forums for a while know this by now, so I don't tend to point it out in every conversation.

 

And, yes, from the point of view of someone transgendered I know that if there had been an oppertunity for me not to have been born this way then I sure as hell would have taken it. I'm not talking changing who I am now I've been born, or changing who anyone is once they've been born, but if they could stop people from being born this way in the first place then I'll give them every ounce of support I can.

 

Why? Because being trans can be a living nightmare at times. I went through *hell* in my teenage years, and my family are only just coming to accept me as who I am now. For some poeple, that never happens. If a hormonal intervention before the fetus has fully developed can prevent someone going through hell, then as far as I'm concerned it can only be a good thing.

[Fuzzbucket]

I never felt attraction of sex, never wanted to experience it and never even need it what means according human psichology is I am an asexual heterosexual (since I like girls and date them but seek only intellectual partners). But since some of my girlfriends WANT TO HAVE SEX they gave me no chance. I experienced what is sex but don't really care ever since. I'll mate them only because they wanted.

And if there will be the right time I will have children descent from my very DNA because it is my duty as it was duty to do as my girlfriends wished.

I learned that no matter what I wish or want. The only thing that is important what duty demands. I could be homo- hetero- bi- or whatever sexual it doesn't matter. If duty demands me to have children, my descendants carrying my DNA, then I have no choice.

I have bolded parts of your post, because I find this quite scary. No-one has a DUTY to do as someone else wants. Please rethink that bit - whatever your orientation.

 

You have a choice. Be yourself - and if that is a self that does not have sex with others, and does not want children - be that person. And good luck to you.

 

(As to the rest - I do take your point about what one used to be taught in school. I was also taught - in "health and sex ed" - that everyone can effectively be forced into heterosexuality, and that those who are"other" can be "cured" - when I was a kid, they put people who differed into mental hospitals to fix them. It's not right, but that teaching still leaves a legacy, and some who were indoctrinated with it haven't managed to let it go. Sad, awful, but true.)

[elderberrysyrup]

That was rude as what I said I said because YOUR teachers taught me that in elementary school according YOUR scientific discoveries of the '80s. WE always deemed it utterly obsolate and false but since human science didn't said anything new about these things it's nothing to say without seem as cruel and rudely offensive. We, despised and hated by most of you, nobles has accurate views about these things but utterly not care.

And about your girlfriend... If she really able to do so it proves she is a true woman. Something I could accept and even support as this ability is quickly fading away in our misguided, patriarcal civilisation.

 

 

Now I take some time and read the very first post (I may start with that at the beginning, I know... Sorry) where I found this:

 

I never felt attraction of sex, never wanted to experience it and never even need it what means according human psichology is I am an asexual heterosexual (since I like girls and date them but seek only intellectual partners). But since some of my girlfriends WANT TO HAVE SEX they gave me no chance. I experienced what is sex but don't really care ever since. I'll mate them only because they wanted.

And if there will be the right time I will have children descent from my very DNA because it is my duty as it was duty to do as my girlfriends wished.

I learned that no matter what I wish or want. The only thing that is important what duty demands. I could be homo- hetero- bi- or whatever sexual it doesn't matter. If duty demands me to have children, my descendants carrying my DNA, then I have no choice. It's so easy for me since I trained, educated, conditioned this way.

And I'll never even think about suicide. Suicide is the most coward and ashaming thing in the whole universe. I never dare to disgrace my family, my bloodline with such an unacceptable act. If someone kill me, that's OK, but to kill myself? NEVER!!!

 

 

I meant no offense only for this part:

 

But I could understand you assume I meant it for the whole post of mine. Sorry if I cause so misunderstanding but since english isn't my primer language I can't use it with acceptable efficiency...

 

 

No. I'm sorry to cause you angry and feel offended. It was't my intention. But I must say I not understand you, common folks, why do you feel offended so often? Maybe my education made me a bit cold hearted and way to logical and thus care less about emotional effects. But believe me, I won't offend anyone! It's not my style to do so until someone provoke it out.

I don't mean to burst your bubble, since I don't know what kind of life you've lived, but... I can't really see the point in duty. To me, duty is a dry, stupid concept. The only 'duty' a person has should be to be themselves, whatever it may be. If you don't wanna have sex, why should you? 'Nobles', 'Common'? In the end, we all bleed red and we're all just people. I also must question, do you have an article or study about such things to prove your claim? I'm interested myself.

Edited February 11, 2012 by soullesshuman

[Fuzzbucket]

How can you have a study to prove duty ? *puzzled*

 

All he's said is that he has a duty to have sex when he doesn't want to, and that he was taught this stuff in school - as was I.

 

I absolutely agree that duty has nothing to do with anything.

[elderberrysyrup]

How can you have a study to prove duty ? *puzzled*

 

All he's said is that he has a duty to have sex when he doesn't want to, and that he was taught this stuff in school - as was I.

 

I absolutely agree that duty has nothing to do with anything.

I was talking about:

 

Asexuality is the result if no gender-specific hormonal influence happened during pregnancy thus the child's mind and biochemical system has no information how to work properly according to it's own gender. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is the result of the influence of wrong gender-specific hormons (male fetus got female-hormon influence and vice versa). These are hormonal disorders' results but not illnesses.

 

Asexuality could be reversed if the hormonal influence's absence discovered before birth (really hard to find it out) with hormon-therapy or after the birth until puberty with hormon therapy

Edited February 11, 2012 by soullesshuman

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh OK - that bit isn't in the post you quoted

 

ETA Oh my. Just found the post. I'm with you all the way here....

Edited February 11, 2012 by fuzzbucket