We want Forum Feedback!

[~!~]

Also, if the section was made read only, where would the artists work on group secret projects?

I, for one, don't like the secret projects. I don't know about anybody else. I'm not going to put up a stink about them or anything, but I'd rather we didn't have them. If users want to be surprised by new breeds, all they have to do is ignore the DR section.

[Imbecamiel]

I, for one, don't like the secret projects.  I don't know about anybody else.  I'm not going to put up a stink about them or anything, but I'd rather we didn't have them.  If users want to be surprised by new breeds, all they have to do is ignore the DR section.

Personally, I like having a mix of both. It's fun recognizing dragons that I've seen in varying stages of completion, and maybe had some input on, but I also love seeing brand-new dragons released. I like the fact that there's a place for the spriters to get input on their work, to hopefully make it the best it can be before it's released while still keeping it a surprise to most. No sprite's ever going to be perfect or appeal to everyone, whether it's visible for anyone to comment on or not.

 

Yes, I hope to one day be an in-cave artist with the option of working on secret projects there. Even then, though, I would still expect to work on most of my projects in the general section - in part just because I enjoy collaborating with a variety of artists.

 

But I do think it's a good thing to have both options, and a mix of anticipated and surprise releases.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Imbecamiel

[Amur_Rama]

I also like the "karma" suggestion someone added before. There wouldn't even need to be abuse filters, because if someone rates a user really low because they're pissed off, the other users will notice and fix it. (Or, you know, there could be abuse filters. Like, you can only bump a member's karma up or down once per period-of-time.)

The one I'm on only allows 1 karma action (either raising it or lowering it) per user per 24 hours. I could hit everyone on the board by 1, but not be able to do it again for a full 24 hours per person. I do not know if that is the default setting or not, but that's a reasonable amount of time for any tempers to cool.

 

I'd much prefer a karma count than a post count, all a post count does is encourage chatter. A karma action makes people reason out their posts much more carefully because you're bound to come across as annoying and risk an action if the post is retarded or illegible.

[hazeh]

Why is there even a demand for an "R" rated section? Just what were you planning on doing in it?

. _.

[Syaoransbear]

Why is there even a demand for an "R" rated section? Just what were you planning on doing in it?

. _.

People in the General Discussion section often have discussions or debates that are unsuitable for the age group this game is directed at. It's not going to be a swearing/nudity fest in there like the name R-rated would suggest.

 

At least I hope not :/.

[skinst]

I, for one, don't like the secret projects. I don't know about anybody else. I'm not going to put up a stink about them or anything, but I'd rather we didn't have them. If users want to be surprised by new breeds, all they have to do is ignore the DR section.

A lot more than new breeds are created in the artist section, you know. The past Easter Egg Hunt and Halloween hunts were all organised in the artist sections. We wanted those to be a surprise because surprises are fun.

 

What is it about secret breeds that you dislike so much? O_o I find that rather odd.

 

[skauble]

People in the General Discussion section often have discussions or debates that are unsuitable for the age group this game is directed at. It's not going to be a swearing/nudity fest in there like the name R-rated would suggest.

 

At least I hope not :/.

Does that mean that you want the new section so that some of the current topics can be moved there, or that there are topics that have been closed because of the rating of the forum? I'd actually still like to know what topics are getting shot down and what is meriting warnings from the moderators. I think that would probably give everyone the best idea of what is wanted out of a new forum.

 

As for the separate artist forum, speaking personally, I don't mind it. The majority of things I enjoy in life, that are created by other people, I get no say in as far as the process goes. I've been on other forums for things somewhat like this where there seems to be the idea that having such a direct line of communication with the person/persons in charge of either the entire thing or various aspects creates a much greater expectation that the members will get to be a large part of the process, and I don't think that having a forum should necessarily be seen as an attempt to foster that notion beyond what seems reasonable to whoever is running things.

 

For the record, I'm not saying that's what is happening here in this discussion, just that I've seen it happen a lot and so I understand that there may be a need for separation to cut down on discord and keep the site running in the smoothest way possible. I remember before the other forum that things had gotten pretty ugly - for whatever reason. It may still be like that, for all I know, but it's not a disruptive drama here that pulls everyone into it. For that reason alone I think that it was probably a beneficial change.

 

I know that there's the suggestion that the other forum should be here and troublemakers should just be warned or banned but, IMO, that's not always workable because it can still create an environment that feels hostile or unpleasant to be in. I don't know what the artists and TJ have worked out, but as far as I'm aware this is still volunteer work that's just an extension of their DC hobby. Neither of those things (volunteering or having a hobby) should be an unpleasant experience, and if it takes a separate forum to make it nicer, then I don't see the problem.

 

This forum actually has a lot of ways that users can make suggestions and help shape the direction of the game, including direct polling on our scrolls. I think that it's realistic that user input may have to end somewhere. And SD works as a place to discuss trends in dragon creation or releases with which the players may have an issue. It's just my opinion, but if some things work better the less I'm involved with them, then I'm okay with that.

[Nectaris]

I know we no longer have an unspoken rule about showing what dragons look like when they grow up, but do we have to allow people to have unreleased dragons in signatures and avatars? Someone mentioned not going to DR if you don't want to see spoilers. That quite frankly is not true. People have them in their avatars and signatures. I know I have been disappointed to recognize newly released dragons, not from the completed list, but from avatars.

[~!~]

I know we no longer have an unspoken rule about showing what dragons look like when they grow up, but do we have to allow people to have unreleased dragons in signatures and avatars? Someone mentioned not going to DR if you don't want to see spoilers. That quite frankly is not true. People have them in their avatars and signatures. I know I have been disappointed to recognize newly released dragons, not from the completed list, but from avatars.

That "someone" was me, and I agree with you. I remember a while back we made a rule outlawing the "egg-hatchling-adult" avatars, and I'd support making "in-progress" dragons disallowed in avatars. As for signatures, I'd rather see a spoiler tag implemented so they can be hidden than disallowing them completely.

[athdaraxen]

I just joined and I really like these forums! The only thing I would want to see is a "View Posts" button. Not like the one we already have but I dynamic one that just lists the topic you posted on and with the little scroll icons telling if they have new posts or not. That way people could keep track of their posts and not lose any topics!

Edited December 23, 2010 by athdaraxen

[hazeh]

But what isn't appropriate to talk about? I remember us having a "sex" thread, but it's not like we went into detail about the process or had pictures or anything. If kids don't want to read it.... then they shouldn't read it. I really don't see anything wrong with the maturity level of discussions we have right now.

[~!~]

I think the issue lies in the stuff kids want to read but shouldn't.

[Fengari]

Exactly. Which brings us back to the question what people want this section for. As I said before, it should be possible to talk about stuff without doing it in a way that kids shouldn't read.

If the stuff you want to be able to say is stuff that kids shouldn't read, I repeat my personal opinion that this forum isn't the place to do that, and there is no need for it to become the place to do that.

 

I know that people's opinions about what kids shouldn't see sometimes differ greatly but that is why sticking to guidelines as they are used officially in other media (f.e. the PG-13 rating) is useful. It might be a good idea to specify and translate this to rules more adapted to the mostly written forum medium, though. This is something that should be done by those in charge of the forum, as they are the ones facing the complaints about them so they should be able to stand by them.

'Regular' users will have to abide by these rules whether they agree with them or not, or go elsewhere.

 

For example, I think talking about sex should be OK as long as you're not getting into ****ographic descriptions or even posting images or links to such material, but if the people who run this forum disagree and decide we shouldn't mention sex at all (I really hope not, I see nothing wrong with people making love...), then that's that and I will restrict myself to only DC-related topics and go do the more serious talking on another forum. No biggie.

 

Edit: LOL I've been censored. Perfect built-in example: I don't see the need for censoring that word personally, as I don't think the word in itself is bad, it's just a word (why isn't the word 'stealing' censored? I think we all agree that is something bad and we don't want the kids doing that either?) But I don't mind it being censored at all.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Fengari

[MURDERcomplexx]

Exactly. Which brings us back to the question what people want this section for. As I said before, it should be possible to talk about stuff without doing it in a way that kids shouldn't read.

If the stuff you want to be able to say is stuff that kids shouldn't read, I repeat my personal opinion that this forum isn't the place to do that, and there is no need for it to become the place to do that.

 

I know that people's opinions about what kids shouldn't see sometimes differ greatly but that is why sticking to guidelines as they are used officially in other media (f.e. the PG-13 rating) is useful. It might be a good idea to specify and translate this to rules more adapted to the mostly written forum medium, though. This is something that should be done by those in charge of the forum, as they are the facing the complaints about them so they should be able to stand by them.

'Regular' users will have to abide by these rules whether they agree with them or not, or go elsewhere.

 

For example, I think talking about sex should be OK as long as you're not getting into ****ographic descriptions or even posting images or links to such material, but if the people who run this forum disagree and decide we shouldn't mention sex at all (I really hope not, I see nothing wrong with people making love...), then that's that and I will restrict myself to only DC-related topics and go do the more serious talking on another forum. No biggie.

As far as I see it, there should be nothing wrong with discussing sexual content as long as we're not straight up linking to free ****os.

We are discussing the whole PG-13 issue, and hopefully should have something up for the users to read soon.

 

If GD gets another section, we'd probably not describe it as an "R" rated section. The forum rating is still universally PG-13, but the nature of the topics call for more seriousness than a lot of the PG-13 topics.

It'd probably include topics like anything on drugs, drinks, social and political issues, and anything that's more prone to debate.

Calling it an "R" rated section would probably lead people to think swearing and such were okay in it, which will pretty much decrease the chance of it happening.

[~!~]

I thought all you needed to get an R rating was the f-bomb, gratuitous blood and gore, or full frontal nudity. So technically anything less than that would be "PG-13." I think instead of using a movie rating, we should spell out in the rules what's appropriate and what's not. (Also, I think the -ography filter is ridiculous.)

[Syaoransbear]

But what isn't appropriate to talk about? I remember us having a "sex" thread, but it's not like we went into detail about the process or had pictures or anything. If kids don't want to read it.... then they shouldn't read it. I really don't see anything wrong with the maturity level of discussions we have right now.

In another thread about what one would like in a significant other, a poster mentioned that they would not allow their significant partner to look at ****ography. It turned into a short discussion about the ethics of it, and thoughts and feelings regarding your significant other looking at it. One user was warned, even though the rules are unclear about the discussion of ****ography, and a moderator warned against any further discussion of it. When I read the rules, it sounded like you just couldn't post pictures or link to it.

 

But that might just follow under the PG13 rating being unclear.

 

But as you can see, even the word is censored out, making even discussion about it annoying. A mature section would allow for a proper, mature discussion regarding it.

 

I also think that the threads we have currently would benefit in a more mature board. When you have a thread about abortion or sexual orientation and a thread about puppies and kitties right next to it, it's hard to keep up a serious discussion. It also might chase away potential general discussion regulars who are younger and really don't want venture into a board where the majority of threads start with the word 'sex...'.

[~!~]

Attempts to bypass the censor will get you warned.

I think this is why. I would suspect some mod didn't think any further into it than "oh, they're not supposed to be using this word." I would suspect such a mod would post at least once warning people to stop attempting the censor or members would get warned.

[skauble]

As far as censoring the word p**n, this site uses google ads and I believe that words like that may be flagged and can have adverse effects on a site's ability to use the service. I can't say that's why TJ has it censored, but if it is I can certainly see why and a mature section might not change that fact.

[Syaoransbear]

I think this is why.  I would suspect some mod didn't think any further into it than "oh, they're not supposed to be using this word."  I would suspect such a mod would post at least once warning people to stop attempting the censor or members would get warned.

Oh yeah, I forgot that was the reason why the person was warned. While the warn the member received was for trying to bypass the censor, we were still told to stop discussing that particular topic because it was an inappropriate topic, not that we were discussing it in an inappropriate way besides censor evasion.

"I want this discussion to stop, it is inappropriate for a PG-13 forum, not to mention the fact that I see a lot of censor evasion."

 

As far as censoring the word p**n, this site uses google ads and I believe that words like that may be flagged and can have adverse effects on a site's ability to use the service.  I can't say that's why TJ has it censored, but if it is I can certainly see why and a mature section might not change that fact.

 

This may be true, but we are still capable of saying any number of words that could lead to equally disturbing sites. Naming specific sexual body parts is not forbidden.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Syaoransbear

[~!~]

As far as censoring the word p**n, this site uses google ads and I believe that words like that may be flagged and can have adverse effects on a site's ability to use the service.  I can't say that's why TJ has it censored, but if it is I can certainly see why and a mature section might not change that fact.

Ooh, good point.

 

EDIT: Ninja'd. I think the issue with the word " ography" is that it is used by people discussing it maturely and immaturely. Sexual organs have many names. Google ads aren't going to flag "girl parts" and put ads for 1-900 numbers on the site like they might do with certain other words that have the same meaning.

Edited December 23, 2010 by ~!~

[skauble]

This may be true, but we are still capable of saying any number of words that could lead to equally disturbing sites. Naming specific sexual body parts is not forbidden.

I don't think that the problem is necessarily what ad it brings up (although that may be one, too), but that Google seems to use some kind of search procedure to personalize the ad and if that search shows certain words on the site then Google may restrict the site in some way from using AdSense.

 

Like I said, I can't confirm that, but there are a number of topics about it in Google's AdSense help forum, and people there seem to be of the opinion that certain terms may be problematic no matter how innocent their usage may be.

[Fengari]

The effect on GoogleAds is something I had not considered and that is a very good reason to censor words like that.

[bantymom]

I'm good with the forums. Most of the people are really very nice and there is usually little to no spam here. The mods are right on top of things, and, as far as I can tell, don't go overboard. But then again, I don't post much.

 

Perhaps we should discuss how the forum is unfriendly to new members.

 

When I first got here, I was terrified, and I'm 53. This place is overwhelming. The FAQ seems clear to everyone who has done this before, but they weren't completely clear to me. There are also bits of information that are no longer true I believe (can non-holiday dragons drop multiple eggs or not?) And yes, there is a definite air of thou-shalt-not-ask-annoying-questions-because-we-are-all-very-tired-of-answering-them. This might not be true, but the feeling was there, and can be perceived to be true.

 

I don't find the cut/paste reply to my introduction at all disheartening. In fact, I am glad to know that we all get the same information so I know that nothing was left out accidentally.

 

(The topic that really distressed me, that I found my first day here, was the one about the horrible newbies who kill their eggs. It made me feel very unworthy and that I would be hated if I let my first baby die.)

 

So, seeing all the rules and getting a rather negative vibe, I immediately looked for a place where I was allowed to ask for help. (Did you know that even the help forum makes it sound like you shouldn't ask for help?) I was sooooo glad to find the mentoring project and I asked for one right away. My mentor was such a blessing! Here was a person who reassured me that I could ask whatever I needed to ask, and indeed was a patient and as helpful as any person could be. I felt safe in her care. I know The Mentoring Project is a pinned topic, but I would humbly suggest that 1) if it isn't an official part of the forum that it be upgraded to be so, and 2) that it be included and suggested in the 1st reply to the introductions.

 

Despite having graduated, I'm still very afraid of posting a help question or beginning any new topic at all, however, because as a habitual rule-follower, I am terrified of getting into trouble. This is an enormous forum and it is easy to get overwhelmed. I'm even afraid to reply to the other new folk in the introductions place because it might be seen as spam and maybe only official people are allowed to reply in there.

 

It might have helped me if there were a looser place to chat, to settle in, to get to know a few people. I saw earlier that the CPA in Forum Games counts as that, but you have to admit that that isn't particularly clear to someone brand new if it is in a place called Forum Games. Perhaps a place called "The Newbie Lounge" might be useful? No, that's not right, but I can't think of something better right now.

 

Also: I feel like a majority of the questions could just as well be asked in the Tiny Little Questions thread... Personally, I have not yet created a help topic because that one thread worked fine. It would be nice if people were encouraged to use that for something that could be a yes or no question. It could be just me, but I feel the rest of the topics should generally fall along the lines of reporting glitches and abnormalities - like the mysterious X click image that appears on some dragon pages on some computers. You know, things that might need other people to say ""yeah, I noticed that too".

 

I was even afraid to post in there! (still am) Yes, if that is where it was preferred that we ask questions, please let the newbies know that that is a safe place to ask.

 

I have gotten in trouble for a duplicate thread. I had read three pages of topics and hadn't found one like what I wanted to make, so I made one, only to be told that it was a duplicate and that I should have searched first. I was devastated. The next time I followed directions and used it. It took me 20 minutes to find a tread I knew existed but for which I couldn't remember the title.

 

I would love a reduction on the wait time on the search engine if it is possible. Punishing those who are using it by making them wait so long after each failed guess will only discourage the very behavior you want to see.

 

As already suggested: Lock/restrict the Announcement-Threads, to prevent the "woot", "YAY" and "kthnx"-spam, either with directly locking the Thread and have a moderated question Thread, or only allowing questions in the Thread, with answered Question in the second post of the Thread.

 

Hmmm, I'm not sure I would want it locked, because someone might have a point that needed clarification. I think I understand the above suggestion and think it might be a good idea, where spam would be removed (and warned?), questions collected and answered in the second post? I would even go so far as to suggest that once answered, the questions could be deleted as well, to keep it all on one page?

 

The rest of this is going to sound rather random because I am slowly working through some of the ideas previously suggested.

 

It seems as though there is some confusion as to what can and can't be discussed in the General Discussion area? That some feel that they were following the rules but were still chastised? It certainly seems as though some clarification might be needed, as well as some positive and negative examples. However, some misinterpretations might still arise. Would it be possible for a mod post something about wanting to pause the conversation temporarily and then lock it, PM the original poster and discuss the topic, perhaps with other mods as well? Just a thought.

 

I'm not sure the General Discussion needs to be split into Random and Serious sections, but those who begin a topic might consider putting "(serious discussion)" at the end of the title perhaps?

 

As for features:

 

Yes...

larger inboxes

larger character count for Sigs

clock for official forum time

BBC alignment

when a member was last online (in profile)

Edited December 25, 2010 by bantymom

[HeatherMarie]

I love love *love* bantymom's post. It is a perfect example/summary of the atmosphere here and the problems that newbies have.

 

And I *very* much agree with the mixed singles about searching. Duplicate topics get closed quickly and often the person gets warned, and yet the "right" behavior, searching the forum before making a topic, can often take up to 30 minutes because of the 2-minute flood control. I used search the other night and obvious couldn't figure out the right term to put in to find the thread I wanted, ended up spending 15 minutes searching, then waiting, then searching, then waiting... It's frustrating, and makes it less likely that people *will* search before posting.

[olympe]

I agree, it's very accurate and reminds me of my first few weeks on these forums. Another issue I found rather intimidating at first was the many burnt (=locked) topics, the burnt scroll looks pretty hostile to me.

 

I also totally agree on the News Threads. They are impossible to follow because they grow so incredibly quickly. Maybe it would make sense to put up a rule that allows you to post there only if you have an important question or can answer the very same question?