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Khallayne

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My one and only problem are subscriptions flooding my e-mail. Subs are useful to find threads without hundreds of bookmarks, but...

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I would love to see a basic chat thread. I think that would probably help a lot of new members settle in.

I think CPA in Forum Games counts as that.

 

 

I love this forum. I've been to a few others, and this is one of the few that I like enough to stay active. The members are friendly and the mods are fair. The only thing I think could be improved is the PG-13 rule. We need more in-detail guidelines, as it seems as though people have gotten in trouble for discussing subjects that they didn't know were inappropriate.

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I have not been a member here for particularly long (about a year) and I often feel intimidated about posting, even in threads about topics I find very interesting and check a couple times a day to read other folks replies. I can definitely see where it might feel difficult for new members to try and join in conversations.

 

For me the main reason I am hesitant to post in many of the General Discussion threads is that I don't like to be personally attacked for voicing an opinion. By all means, point out the flaws in my statements and explain the reasoning behind your ideas. You might even change my mind if you do it well! But name calling, insults and a cutting, condescending attitude show up a lot when a discussion gets heated and I don't like having those aimed at me. I am reluctant to report any of these arguments when I see them, as so many seem to just take them in stride. If it's just going to be seen as a debate and "the way things are here" I don't want to waste a busy mod's time with a pointless report.

 

A lot of a person's comfort about jumping into this fast-moving forum probably has to do with personality. I would guess that more outgoing, talkative folks probably don't have the same worries.

 

 

 

On a slightly more constructive note, here are a couple things I have noticed in my time here.

 

The copy/pasted greetings in the Introduction section bother me a bit. It makes sense for the mod in charge of approving to just have a basic form message that is used to approve the new member and give them the basic info on where to go for common questions. However I often see a first post with particular questions and concerns that are not even remotely answered by the copy/pasted greeting left by members to each new member. On the other hand there are folks who have been playing for a while in the cave but only just joined the forum and state this. They clearly don't need to be told a half-dozen times by different people "Put your eggs in a clicksite or they will die! This is the one you should use." It's also a bit disheartening (IMO) for a new member who checks back, sees they have been approved and that everyone else in the section has the exact same replies. I know it made me wonder if anyone read any of them, or just copy/pasted for the post count.

 

The Suggestions/Requests section could use more frequent cleaning. There are a lot of threads with just a couple of very old replies or that contain ideas that have already been implemented. Perhaps something similar to what is done in the Fan Sites section could be used, PMing the topic starters after a couple months to find out if they want to keep the suggestion.

 

I'll post again if I come up with anything more.

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Except, erm, freedom of speech?

 

I have often felt that this forum keeps much too tight a hold on what members are allowed to mention and discuss. The Frills are a perfect illustration of this. No one could even mention Frills or query about why they were being removed without being jumped on for "causing drama"-- and 8 months later, people still feel trepidation at the mere mention of them. I mean, obviously mods should intervene with true flame wars, but more often than not I've found that mods' reactions to any conflict in a thread, even valid - if heated - debates, run along the lines of "zomg lock it" or "WIPE EVERYTHING." With all due respect, it sometimes feels like we are being shepherded about by the Thought Police. >>

technically speaking Freedom of speech does not really exist on private websites unless the website owner chooses to allow it. Freedom of speech is about the government not being able to censure the public.

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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Hey, all I was saying about the artists is that I think there's a disconnect between what the artists want in a dragon and what the users want in a dragon. I think that's to the detriment of the site, and I think it's perpetrated by the artists-only forum.

 

Members discussing what ever they want, with out limits? Nothing in life is limit free. Approved topics should remain open and the members warned for breaking rules 'causing problems'. Until the topic has out lived its usefulness.

I think there should be limits on what members can discuss on the forums. I just don't think there needs to be as much restriction as there is right now. I also don't think a topic can outlive its usefulness. For example, I've seen a topic suggesting listing a vampire's sire on its page shot down multiple times because TJ said the coding wouldn't work. Yet, now, miraculously, the coding does work. I believe a while back TJ stated that trading would never be an official feature. Yet, now, a trading feature is in the works. I think that labeling a topic useless once the community reaches a consensus on it like preserving a marsh by cutting down the new trees that grow around its edges. All it serves to do is keep the status quo intact, although a proper marsh should shrink over time as trees grow into it. (Maybe I'm thinking of a bog. It's one of those wetlandy type places)

 

Topics not viewed by members are there for a reason, we get work done that is otherwise distracted.  Also TJ likes surprises.

Why not at least have a forum that only artists can post in, but that can be viewed by all the members? As for surprises... I don't like them. *shrug* You asked for opinions, so there's mine.

 

Why? DC is a free site, do you really think members should approve everything?

I don't think members should approve everything. I think members should have a say in what happens. Like teenage children. The parents make the decisions, but because the kids are mature enough to know what's going on, they take their opinions into account.

 

Speaking of free, I feel like if members who contribute art to the site are given special privileges (more of a say in what dragons go onto the site, leverage in suggestions, etc.), why not members who contribute money? Yet, if anybody mentions donator perks, they get fish thrown at them. (Also, after a user has made a sprite for the site, it remains their property. Yet, after a user makes a donation to the site, he can't just say "Oh hey TJ I want my money back kthxbai." Seems a little silly to me.)

 

Also, I don't get why us not paying for Dragon Cave means we don't get a say in what gets added. I bought Pokemon HeartGold, but I'm not going to send a letter to Nintendo saying I way a Fire/Ice type starter next generation. I bought Toy Story 2, but I'm not going to email Disney asking for a movie about a princess from outer space. I eat at Burger King, but I'm not going to ask the cashier if they can start carrying popcorn shrimp.

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~!~ - Not everyone has the artistic ability liked dc's great spriters.

What do you mean by that?

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Hey, all I was saying about the artists is that I think there's a disconnect between what the artists want in a dragon and what the users want in a dragon.

Could you give me an example?

 

I personally am a little confused by this, particularly because we have such a wide range of spriters and an even wider range of user's art tastes. What one person loves in a dragon might make someone else crazy, but there seems to be at least some sprites that work for each user.

 

Unless you aren't talking about the art and dragon design but something else, in which case I am confused and apologize.

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What do you mean by that?

I'm deeming what you've just said unfair. Not everyone is practiced enough in art to be given these privileges. It would most likely cause anger.

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I think there should be limits on what members can discuss on the forums.  I just don't think there needs to be as much restriction as there is right now.  I also don't think a topic can outlive its usefulness.  For example, I've seen a topic suggesting listing a vampire's sire on its page shot down multiple times because TJ said the coding wouldn't work.  Yet, now, miraculously, the coding does work.  I believe a while back TJ stated that trading would never be an official feature.  Yet, now, a trading feature is in the works.  I think that labeling a topic useless once the community reaches a consensus on it like preserving a marsh by cutting down the new trees that grow around its edges.  All it serves to do is keep the status quo intact, although a proper marsh should shrink over time as trees grow into it.  (Maybe I'm thinking of a bog.  It's one of those wetlandy type places)

 

Actually, I think that, in both those cases, TJ said that he wasn't planning to do them at that time, not that they weren't possible. For whatever reason, once TJ steps in and says that's not something we're getting right now, then the topics do stop serving a purpose. In fact, your examples kind of prove _Z_'s point. Those suggestions were made, we couldn't have the features then and the threads were closed. But it wasn't as if the idea was simply forgotten because we've gotten/are getting both of those things, so clearly a constantly open thread wasn't necessary.

 

 

I don't think members should approve everything.  I think members should have a say in what happens.  Like teenage children.  The parents make the decisions, but because the kids are mature enough to know what's going on, they take their opinions into account.

 

IMO, the problem is that a lot of times people don't always understand that giving an opinion or suggestion doesn't mean that anything has to change because of it. Sometimes it's difficult for people to accept what is and isn't feasible at a particular time and it's not always easy to see a bigger picture.

 

For instance, the artists' forum. I don't know everything that went on that led to the separation. However, I do know that if I were running a game that depended on artists volunteering their time/work, and the atmosphere was such that the artists felt that participating was kind of defeating the point of having a hobby in the first place, then I can easily see making a separate forum. While it can be argued that the mods can aggressively mod the threads here, that might not be enough to put some of the fun back in to the art making part of things and so, even though there's the loss of more direct player input, it's better for the game, overall, to not make creating the art an arduous, unpleasant task.

 

In this forum we can make suggestion, help create BSAs, submit dragon ideas, and discuss new features/dragons in the News section and things about the site in SD. That's a lot of opinions that we can add. I'm really not sure that the benefit of player input on everything is worth the cost of disruption that it sometimes causes.

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Could you give me an example?

I was thinking of all the dragons that sit in the cave for minutes without being picked up, as opposed to those that are snatched up almost instantly. Even if you take out rares, uncommons, and dragons with BSAs, there's still a difference between breeds. Obviously, there are breeds that most of the users don't particularly want to collect, and others that are much more popular, and I don't think that has to do with how good the spritework is.

 

I'm deeming what you've just said unfair. Not everyone is practiced enough in art to be given these privileges. It would most likely cause anger.

I still don't get what you're talking about. Did you think I was suggesting that every user contribute art to the site? Because that's certainly not what I meant.

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~!~  -  Not everyone has the artistic ability liked dc's great spriters.

I don't think it's the artistic ability that should matter, anyone could learn to contribute artistically if they put in the time and energy, but the amount of time people put in.

 

Artists are doing this for free out of their own free time. They should be allowed to have something extra/special, because they don't have to. The same could be said of the donaters, too. They donate their own hard earned money to the site, they should get at least some weigh in on things as well. Only question is, what?

 

It's understandable for the artists to get an opinion on the sprites, especially if they were the ones who created it. And from my understanding, it's because they couldn't decide/did extra colorings that they liked and got the special editions, and for others, it's something special.

 

Donaters could possibly get a say in what new features got implemented on the site, though I wonder if there's a way to tell who's donated and who hasn't?

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What I dislike most is that threads tend to be closed just for the "drama they cause" (and lets not fool ourselves - it happened often enough). Unless the thread itself is aimed to cause drama, the appropriate action would be to warn and - if necessary - temp-ban users who cannot or aren't willing to stick to forum rules. I don't see why all the members that are willing to argue in a civilized manner and have interest in the topic should be punished for the misbehavior of others.

 

If things have gotten out of hand, then close the thread temporarely, take the appropriate actions against violation of forum rules, and reopen the thread.

 

 

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I was thinking of all the dragons that sit in the cave for minutes without being picked up, as opposed to those that are snatched up almost instantly. Even if you take out rares, uncommons, and dragons with BSAs, there's still a difference between breeds. Obviously, there are breeds that most of the users don't particularly want to collect, and others that are much more popular, and I don't think that has to do with how good the spritework is.

What factors do you think go into what gets picked up quickly vs. what doesn't?

 

I know breeds seem to cycle, with a particular breed being available in droves, than another replacing it. I think perceived rarity has a lot to do with what is chosen and that it becomes a cycle of it's own. If someone thinks a dragon will be picked up more and is somehow more valuable, they might try harder to grab it.

 

I don't know a lot about the process between when a dragon suggestion is finished and when it is implemented, so I don't know much rarity, etc. are up to the artist.

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In regards to the Artist's control over the dragons - this has been 'fixed', so to speak. I will not go into details until such time as TJ sees fit to release that information.

 

In regards to special sprites ect ect, those were given out on a whim. They were not planned, so therefore I don't think their existance needs to be justified.

 

Yes, I can completely see how some people might see it as unfair that spriters get special stuff once in a while. However, also consider this;

 

The only thing we have gotten is recolours. You guys all have badges and holiday dragons that you earned or caught that are no different from the spriters in terms of what they do. The only difference, and I mean the only one, is the colour.

 

It seems highly superficial to me to complain about something that, in the grand scheme of things, is rather minor.

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I understand that members who have been here for a while are probably very tired of seeing the same old questions/requests from a thousand different newbies who all probably think they've thought of it first.

I think this assumption may be a large part of the problem.

 

Working in customer service at a public place of business means that, in the course of my day, about 20 people will ask me, "where are the restrooms?". It's my job to point people in the correct direction. Each person that asks me is a NEW guest to the establishment. They probably know that they are not the first person to ask me where are the restrooms, but they still expect me to answer it because it's the first time they personally have asked it.

 

Some of my co-workers get exasperated because they hear the same questions, over and over again. Each person asking it is a new person, though, and just because we are the same ol' desk clerks doesn't give us the right to be rude, condescending, sarcastic or nasty to the guest. We need to be pleasant and helpful.

 

Now, no one here is getting paid to be nice to newbies. This isn't anyone's full-time paying job. People seem to forget their manners, though. If someone new (or old, for that matter) asks the same question that 10 million other people have asked ahead of them, and you can't come up with a civil reply, why bother to answer at all? Someone else will eventually respond to the question in a straight-forward manner, so it's not like five or six angrily-toned responses are necessary. If it's the same person asking the same question, then yes, by all means zap 'em for spamming.

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The search... of my god the search is broken... i dont know why, but you type in stuff and it gives you a ton of stuff! Like an unbelievibly high number.

When i wanted to make my jackal dragon thread, i searched it and game up with like 6 pages of results, and i have no idea why.

 

It gets to a point where you have to be so specific that you get no results, and then you could miss a similar topic, but then if your too broad, you get every topic in the forum. Sometimes i get results and read the whole thread and can not find out for the life of me why it showed up.

 

Proof: If you dont believe me, look at this

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?act=S...=Crazy+fish+man

I just searched "Crazy fish man" and got 2 pages of results in this section alone.

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I'm sure other people have already said these things, but I don't have the time to read all 8 pages, so here's my 2 cents:

 

A specific, detailed explanation of what constitutes a warn, all the different reasons you can be warned, etc. I have DC friends who deliberately don't post in these forums at all because of the strictness, and I admit I've shyed away from posting my opinions more then once because I have no idea if what I say might be taken wrong and get me warned.

Also, perhaps a little easing up on the warns and strictness of the rules? If a topic is going to be closed because it's spam or duplicate or whatever, that's fine, but I don't see a reason to warn everyone who posts in that topic; While the topic is open, unless it's obvious eggspam or something, how are we supposed to know it's going to be closed? (I'm not bitter about a warn, I promise; I see this happen a lot)

 

And to that end, the Dragon Requests forum. Ease up a little, please? I understand not wanting a good request thread to degenerate into post after post of "I like this!" and such, but it's really frustrating when people can't go in and go "oh, I like this and this, but don't like this and this" without getting jumped all over because they didn't offer more specific feedback. (again, it happens a lot, not talking about a specific situation.)

 

I love helping out and answering questions for newbies in the Help forum, but I do think that it can get a little excessive, anywhere from 2-10 people posting responses saying the exact same things. Maybe the Help forum should only be able to be answered by mods, maybe having specific mods just to answer those questions... I don't know the solution to that, exactly...

 

 

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I love helping out and answering questions for newbies in the Help forum, but I do think that it can get a little excessive, anywhere from 2-10 people posting responses saying the exact same things. Maybe the Help forum should only be able to be answered by mods, maybe having specific mods just to answer those questions... I don't know the solution to that, exactly...

NO

 

That would but SO much strain on the mods. There are a lot of older users here that know what they are talking about and are able to help.

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Like I said, I like helping out too. But I think it could cut down on warns *and* making newbies defensive/overwhelmed if there was a better way to stop the 10-ninja-posts type of thing...

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Like I said, I like helping out too. But I think it could cut down on warns *and* making newbies defensive/overwhelmed if there was a better way to stop the 10-ninja-posts type of thing...

Aye but the questions would literally pile up

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Why not have a very large user group that consists of everybody who's responsible enough not to bite the new kids, and only they can reply to topics in the Help forum?

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Someone probably said this, but how about when you click a user's profile it shows if they are online or not?

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I think it'd be a good thing to allow more than one topic in the original work's section. That's something that just recently came to my attention that I had never been aware of. My problem is that I like to write and draw. Thus, it'd be natural for me to want two separate threads so that I can receive feedback on a specific one instead of just meshing them all together. I have a request art thread that was going very well for a while (until I got bombarded with work) that is very full of pictures and whatnot. My other thread is a Fanfiction thread, where I post a lot of writing on a certain topic. (I also have a third where it's just my normal arts, but that I don't mind shutting down.)

 

I was really disappointed to learn that I have to squish the two together, since that to me creates a problem of disorganization. I would really prefer to have my two separate topics so that I can have other posts focus on the topic that those threads are meant to focus around, not just the fact that I created them. Plus, I have a lot of stuff already, so to me that just creates unnecessary clutter :/ And clutter likes to keep potential lurkers/fans away, and that does not sit well with Haze :<

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