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Khallayne

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It actually makes the point for keeping them there as well - to draw more attention to the BSA section.

I guess if we don't visit the BSA forum, our input isn't wanted/needed. OK. I get it.

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As I mentioned in my previous post, I think some suggestion are moved to the BSA subforum in hopes that they die, these are two of the threads I was thinking of, but I'm pretty sure there are others..

 

"influenced male/female" information, elsewhere, not just in the action log

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=167499

 

Trading adult dragons?

https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=161807

 

Those are NOT BSA suggestions. They are suggestions for NEW features/additions. The BSA is already available, nothing about the BSA needs to be fixed/changed, except to allow the new features to be used. Suggestions like these need to stay in the MAIN forum, not get sent to the BSA subforum to die.

Now that you mention it, it does tend to feel like they're being sent there to die, because it clearly isn't bringing life to the BSA section...

 

As far as I can see, the BSA section is quiet because most threads go in circles after a few pages or aren't for actions that have actual gameplay effects. Forcing suggestions with only tangential connection to a BSA to be moved there doesn't make sense unless you want them to languish in obscurity.

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I believe that the INTENTION was good, trying to bring life to the BSA section. I personally doubt there was maliciousness behind the move.

 

 

However, given how long these threads have been in there and there has been NO noticeable increase in activity and several dead threads that used to active, I would say it clearly isn't working and needs to be dropped as a tactic.

Edited by Nectaris

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It'd be kind of cool if there was a clubs and armies board? It'd also be neat if there was a way to make the forum less... long. On my laptop the forum itself is, like, huge. Entire paragraphs can be on one line.

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I believe that the INTENTION was good, trying to bring life to the BSA section.  I personally doubt there was maliciousness behind the move.

 

However, given how long these threads have been in there and there has been NO noticeable increase in activity and several dead threads that used to active, I would say it clearly isn't working and needs to be dropped as a tactic.

I don't say it was malicious. I do think it is decidedly counter-productive and not in any way conducive to discussion. Having really important stuff like trying to improve trading getting lost among butterflies and graffiti isn't helpful. I would post "bump" in all the threads I see as significant and important every day (except when I'm on capped internet) but a} they'd still get buried as there are SO MANY "fun" suggestions in there and b} I bet I'd be warned for it ! But it would be their only hope of not sinking without trace.

 

It'd be kind of cool if there was a clubs and armies board? It'd also be neat if there was a way to make the forum less... long. On my laptop the forum itself is, like, huge. Entire paragraphs can be on one line.

 

 

What do you mean exactly ? If some kind of GAME with our dragons, sort of, we don't seem to have clubs and armies - but you could put threads in GD somewhere.

 

(Not sure how you get a whole paragraph on one line, but you can always resize your browser...)

Edited by fuzzbucket

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I guess if we don't visit the BSA forum, our input isn't wanted/needed. OK. I get it.

I've been sitting on this for a while because I wanted the right reply and it's an attitude many of you seem to share.

 

If you don't want (keyword: want, this is your choice) to visit the BSA forum and give your input, then no, I guess your input isn't going to be heard. Just like we never hear from people who don't visit the Suggestions/Requests section. Just like we never hear from people who don't want to join the forum or who can't join the forum. If you don't visit a section and post there, then your input won't be heard. We never ever hear from all users about suggestions, anyway. TJ has to judge this against what he knows about how users are using the site. Not being able to give input isn't the end of the world, nor is it meant as an insult. The forum is there if you want to use it. Make use of it as you will. But that is your choice to make.

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But trading is NOT a BSA. Sure teleport is - but that isn't the same thing... she said desperately....

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I've been sitting on this for a while because I wanted the right reply and it's an attitude many of you seem to share.

 

If you don't want (keyword: want, this is your choice) to visit the BSA forum and give your input, then no, I guess your input isn't going to be heard. Just like we never hear from people who don't visit the Suggestions/Requests section. Just like we never hear from people who don't want to join the forum or who can't join the forum. If you don't visit a section and post there, then your input won't be heard. We never ever hear from all users about suggestions, anyway. TJ has to judge this against what he knows about how users are using the site. Not being able to give input isn't the end of the world, nor is it meant as an insult. The forum is there if you want to use it. Make use of it as you will. But that is your choice to make.

The point is, not everything needs to be a BSA. But topics get moved to the BSA forum because they 'might be' or 'could be' BSAs. Not that they necessarily need to be BSAs.

 

Unless it's explicily stated that the OP wants it to be a BSA, it doesn't need to be in the BSA subforum. So moving topics in the main suggestion forum that are NOT BSAs is rude and should not happen.

 

Topics that get moved to the BSA subforum tend to die unless it's very, very, very popular.. and even then, it's still likely to die unless the OP keeps bumping it up.

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There could also be a BSA Discussion forum separate from the BSA requests. I don't see why the two need to be kept together, and alterations to BSAs already in the cave should get more attention than they do now.

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That would help a bit, I think, given that the BSAs we have are already seen as important - but even so - the issue that has got so many of us in a twist relates to various suggestions about trading - which is NOT IN ITSELF A BSA, even though it uses one - and they get buried all the time - and MANY MANY MANY of us want - e.g. - to be able to offer on more than one trade; to be able to show eggs and hatchies without their getting views, and so on. But they never get discussion by the multitudes, because the BSA area is chokka with cute but not very useful suggestions, so a lot of people don't drop by and see that there are seriously IMPORTANT issues about existing BSAs in there, not to mention discussions that AREN'T directly about the BSA and shouldn't be in there.

 

People don't know this IMPORTANT stuff is hiding in there. They go in and see (just a sec) Prank, Boost, Float, Flaming, Beagle Puss - sure protection in trade is in there - but not as a BSA suggestion; it has ended up in there presumably because it is seen as a modification of teleport - but it ISN'T. Someone I know who saw that one had assumed it was a BSA to be given to a dragon and was amazed to find it was just a request for dragons in teleport not to gain views. That is NOT a BSA.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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The BSA subforum is seen as the dragon request subforum in terms of it is specifically used to create brand new BSA concepts that are fleshed out and improved rather than suggesting improvement to existing BSA's that are discussed and weighed on based on accuracy and merit of the improvement.

 

This is why many suggest that BSA improvements should be left in the main suggestion section because they are not seen as new, but instead just improvements to an already existing mechanic. I wouldnt go to the dragon request section to suggest fixes on a certain breed that is already in cave because thats seen as a place for new dragons to be created. Its the same with the BSA subsection, people see it as a place to create new BSA's and not discuss already made ones and how to improve/change them.

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For me, at least, the problem with the BSA sections is that most threads in there are completely useless: They either suggest Splash-like BSAs with no impact on the game, have people start threads blatantly ignoring the section rules (Think of the breed and its abilities first, then the BSA. Don't come up with [insert cool thing here] and go looking for a breed to tack it on to.) or it's people stating over and over again why they like something. Ad nauseam, no less. xd.png Not to mention the threads with BSAs like Earthquake, where the most common result you seem to be albe to get is dead eggs/hatchies.

 

So, I'd like to suggest a change in the BSA section. Make it into three sub-sections:

Useful BSAs (for BSAs that actually affect gameplay)

Joke BSAs (for useless, but maybe cute BSAs)

In-Cave BSAs (for discussion of changes to already existing BSAs, like Teleport or Fertility)

 

I'd sure be visting the 1st semi-regularly, and the 3rd on a regular basis. The 2nd, which would take the bulk of the suggestions, I wouldn't visit at all.

Edited by olympe

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I'd definitely like a separation between suggested modifications to existing BSAs and new BSAs.. Nothing kills a thread about a potentially useful alteration to Teleport like burying it among a bunch of three-post threads for BSAs that haven't been attached to a dragon and don't work with existing game mechanics.

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For me, at least, the problem with the BSA sections is that most threads in there are completely useless: They either suggest Splash-like BSAs with no impact on the game, have people start threads blatantly ignoring the section rules (Think of the breed and its abilities first, then the BSA. Don't come up with [insert cool thing here] and go looking for a breed to tack it on to.) or it's people stating over and over again why they like something. Ad nauseam, no less. xd.png Not to mention the threads with BSAs like Earthquake, where the most common result you seem to be albe to get is dead eggs/hatchies.

 

So, I'd like to suggest a change in the BSA section. Make it into three sub-sections:

Useful BSAs (for BSAs that actually affect gameplay)

Joke BSAs (for useless, but maybe cute BSAs)

In-Cave BSAs (for discussion of changes to already existing BSAs, like Teleport or Fertility)

 

I'd sure be visting the 1st semi-regularly, and the 3rd on a regular basis. The 2nd, which would take the bulk of the suggestions, I wouldn't visit at all.

I think this is fair for organization. More sections could make S/R overly busy, though. What about some tagging system in the titles along these lines? Would that help? If I get time to update the BSA list this summer, I could also put in some color coordinating to help separate out the purpose of BSAs. The list is already split into modifications vs new.

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I think this is fair for organization. More sections could make S/R overly busy, though. What about some tagging system in the titles along these lines? Would that help? If I get time to update the BSA list this summer, I could also put in some color coordinating to help separate out the purpose of BSAs. The list is already split into modifications vs new.

I love what Olype suggested. And no, tagging won't help.

 

For myself, I visit the BSA sub forum when I see the little egg light up showing "new post". 99% of the time, its for a fluff BSA and.... I ignore it. So, tagging won't help because most of the BSA suggestions are "cute" ones.

 

Here's how I would split the section out:

Modifications to existing BSAs: In main Suggestions, because the BSA already exists

 

And split the current BSA forum into:

Useful BSAs (for BSAs that actually affect gameplay)

Joke BSAs (for useless, but maybe cute BSAs)

 

So you are just adding in 1 more forum, with BSAs.

 

Personally? The only way the BSA section will pick up in popularity is for a new BSA to actually be released in-game that increased game play. Having TJ post a few times might help, too. But that might happen if he doesn't have to read through cute "joke" BSAs all the time. But the main reason, IMO, that the BSA forum is a one-way trip to NowheresVille is that new BSAs aren't being released.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I love what Olype suggested. And no, tagging won't help.

 

For myself, I visit the BSA sub forum when I see the little egg light up showing "new post". 99% of the time, its for a fluff BSA and.... I ignore it. So, tagging won't help because most of the BSA suggestions are "cute" ones.

 

Here's how I would split the section out:

Modifications to existing BSAs: In main Suggestions, because the BSA already exists

 

And split the current BSA forum into:

Useful BSAs (for BSAs that actually affect gameplay)

Joke BSAs (for useless, but maybe cute BSAs)

 

So you are just adding in 1 more forum, with BSAs.

 

Personally? The only way the BSA section will pick up in popularity is for a new BSA to actually be released in-game that increased game play. Having TJ post a few times might help, too. But that might happen if he doesn't have to read through cute "joke" BSAs all the time. But the main reason, IMO, that the BSA forum is a one-way trip to NowheresVille is that new BSAs aren't being released.

 

Cheers!

C4.

This. Tagging won't do it - it is just going into BSA and seeing all the - not helpful - ones ('fluff" - love it xd.png) that puts people off.

 

I'd be OK with modifications to BSAs in with other suggestions - they'd get FAR more discussion there. I don't actually have a burning desire for a new BSA anyway - but some modifications to trades are BADLY needed.

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The main reason I dont use the BSA section is because years ago, I was told that it was better to make a dragon to fit the BSA you want, rather than try to shove it on one that might not be the best fit. However, my art is a joke, and my dragons are often classified as "flat", "unshaded" or "too complicated" and therefore, do not get released. Coloblindness is not friendly when you are trying to make pretty things for people.

 

My dragons that have (mostly) harmless form of egg freezing, sat around for a few years with no hopes of release. I offered the idea up to other dragons, but the mechinism needed for it, doesnt fit other breeds. Im remaking the dragons now, in hopes of making it work. Because I know exactly how I want my mechanic to work, it can't really be shoved onto an already existing breed. Since I have the fluff worked out, it would be pointless to make a thread for it. How I want it to work isn't something im going to budge on.

 

I'm cool with splitting the section into BSA for "game play" purposes, and BSA "for fun" purposes.

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Personally? The only way the BSA section will pick up in popularity is for a new BSA to actually be released in-game that increased game play. Having TJ post a few times might help, too. But that might happen if he doesn't have to read through cute "joke" BSAs all the time. But the main reason, IMO, that the BSA forum is a one-way trip to NowheresVille is that new BSAs aren't being released.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Pretty much this. Has anything listed there ever been implemented? I THINK earthquake may have been suggested, but that was back when there was a single thread and no sub-section.

 

BTW Fertility and Teleport don't count as iirc they were both suggested by TJ in his original thread.

 

It is kind of dis-heartening to realize that the sub-forum has been there for years, yet nothing has really come from it.

 

The main reason I dont use the BSA section is because years ago, I was told that it was better to make a dragon to fit the BSA you want, rather than try to shove it on one that might not be the best fit. However, my art is a joke, and my dragons are often classified as "flat", "unshaded" or "too complicated" and therefore, do not get released. Coloblindness is not friendly when you are trying to make pretty things for people.

 

My dragons that have (mostly) harmless form of egg freezing, sat around for a few years with no hopes of release. I offered the idea up to other dragons, but the mechinism needed for it, doesnt fit other breeds. Im remaking the dragons now, in hopes of making it work. Because I know exactly how I want my mechanic to work, it can't really be shoved onto an already existing breed. Since I have the fluff worked out, it would be pointless to make a thread for it. How I want it to work isn't something im going to budge on.

 

Just a bit of trivia, but I actually created Turpentines with a BSA in mind, only it was released as a regular action(renaming) before Turps were released. I never mentioned it in thread in case it hindered release and now it isn't necessary.

Edited by Nectaris

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I am so over the BSA thread. It is where all ideas whether good or bad, well thought out or foolish go to die. We never see anything happen there, TJ almost never comments on any of the ideas, he never says whether the ideas have any chance of being implemented or not. While changes to the trade ability may be interesting to me and others, what difference does it make what we have to say or want in light of TJ's indifference? Yes, I agree that fine tuning the trade ability in various ways would be interesting to discuss, but it seems fruitless. Ideas that could improve game play and ideas to fine tune existing facets of game play should be in areas where discussion happens. At least other members actively discuss things in the main suggestions thread, so there is an appearance of progress, which doesn't exist in the BSA thread. If there is ever a noticeable change in the status quo, I will rethink my feelings on this issue, but for now, I have no interest in beating the dead ideas that are going nowhere.

 

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Has anything listed there ever been implemented?

Was the 'provide lineage links in teleport' thing in the BSA section? I can't remember. I think it wasn't, but it might have been (it would certainly be in the BSA section under current policy, but it did pre-date the policy), so that would be one data point I can think of.

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I think this is fair for organization. More sections could make S/R overly busy, though. What about some tagging system in the titles along these lines? Would that help? If I get time to update the BSA list this summer, I could also put in some color coordinating to help separate out the purpose of BSAs. The list is already split into modifications vs new.

Maybe make a BSA forum that's a sub-forum of the Dragon Cave section and independent of the S/R section? This way, we could see directly which threads had the last post, without even having to look at S/R.

 

And I agree that it would help immensely if TJ posted more in the BSA section and released the occasional BSA. There are some good ones out there - variations of preventing sickness (Guard for Guardians, for example), curing sickness (Heal for Whites, for example), "Light Fog" for Greys to allow lineage view while preventing views, "Shroud" for Daydreams (although that ranks somewhere in between "affecting gameplay" and "merely cute" in my mind), hatchling-equivalents of incubate, anit-incubate, creating frozen eggs and the likes.

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Personally? The only way the BSA section will pick up in popularity is for a new BSA to actually be released in-game that increased game play. Having TJ post a few times might help, too. But that might happen if he doesn't have to read through cute "joke" BSAs all the time. But the main reason, IMO, that the BSA forum is a one-way trip to NowheresVille is that new BSAs aren't being released.

I think you have nailed it.

 

After many years of not having any BSA from the section (useful or not) released, I think most people have already "wised up" and realized the BSA section is a dead pool of ignored ideas that has a smaller chance of being implemented than them winning gold prizes two years in a row.

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If modifications to existing dragon breeds (description tweaks, art updates, etc.) are not sorted into the Dragon Requests subforum, there is no reason for modifications for existing BSAs to be moved to the BSA subforum.

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If modifications to existing dragon breeds (description tweaks, art updates, etc.) are not sorted into the Dragon Requests subforum, there is no reason for modifications for existing BSAs to be moved to the BSA subforum.

What a VERY good point xd.png. I couldn't agree more. All those threads about changing sprites etc don't end up in DR.

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Personally? The only way the BSA section will pick up in popularity is for a new BSA to actually be released in-game that increased game play. Having TJ post a few times might help, too. But that might happen if he doesn't have to read through cute "joke" BSAs all the time. But the main reason, IMO, that the BSA forum is a one-way trip to NowheresVille is that new BSAs aren't being released.

 

Cheers!

C4.

If modifications to existing dragon breeds (description tweaks, art updates, etc.) are not sorted into the Dragon Requests subforum, there is no reason for modifications for existing BSAs to be moved to the BSA subforum.

These two are very good points and honestly make the most sense. I really don't see why things should be divide and if they are then it should be applicable to all of these suggestion sections not just BSAs.

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