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Are humans more important than animals?

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Okay ... my faith in humanity has been restored. Saw an article today of a man who was standing on the roadside (don't know what city or anything) with a sign that said "I have a house; and a car; and a job. Do you need an extra few bucks for coffee?" He was celebrating his 65th birthday by doing 65 random acts of kindness.

 

The human race is capable of such cruelty and also able to do random acts of kindness. Wish we would do more random acts of kindness *sigh*

On the news, cruelty pays more than kindness, unfortunately. I hear more about abuse and murder than I do adoptions and donations by regular people. I think people also remember more of bad things, so cruelty sticks in the memory while kindness doesn't do quite as well.

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When most people go to somewhere like McDonalds they sit down and order their food. If they got fried chicken, when it comes they start eating it. They don't think about what that chicken went through to be put on their plate.

 

The way most McDonalds restaurants kill the chickens is horrible! The chickens head is dunked in electrified water. No sedation, no humane death.

Unfortunately, the electrified bath can be one of the more humane ways that meat companies kill the chickens. Suffocation, throat slit hang-and bleed, etc. are other methods that facilities use, and the latter in particular is known for unnecessary suffering and pain. Some types of gas chambers are pretty horrifying too, since it's entirely possible for birds to survive the initial gassing and slowly suffocate under corpses or die from exposure at the dump sites. Carbon Dioxide gassing seems to be the safest and most humane method of that type. Just as well, electrocution can have bad results if it isn't done proper.

 

I entirely agree that society has become comfortable with not caring where their food comes from, which has led to a dehumanization of the meat animals. Even more unfortunate is the fact that many of these people truly don't give a lick even when educated on the reality of factory farming. It can be quite mortifying, especially when you remember those people also vote on animal welfare bills =/

Edited by Nine

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Unfortunately, the electrified bath is one of the more humane ways that meat companies kill the chickens. Suffocation, throat slit hang-and bleed, etc. are other methods that facilities use, and the latter in particular is known for unnecessary suffering and pain. Gas chambers are pretty horrifying too, since it's entirely possible for birds to survive the initial gassing and slowly suffocate under corpses or die from exposure at the dump sites.

 

I entirely agree that society has become comfortable with not caring where their food comes from, which has led to a dehumanization of the meat animals. Even more unfortunate is the fact that many of these people truly don't give a lick even when educated on the reality of factory farming. It can be quite mortifying, especially when you remember those people also vote on animal welfare bills =/

This depends entirely on the type of gas used.

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I'm just saying, in some cases, gas chambers are one of the most humane methods you can do.

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I find spine severing/ complete beheading one of the best methods with fewer risks involved, since with gas chambers it isn't immediately apparent how/what is being used. But yes, carbon dioxide gases are pretty humane from what I've heard sine they induce unconsciousness. I'll edit my first post so it's a bit more specific, just as well since electrocution can be inhumane if it isn't done proper. I don't want to make it sound like electric-baths are the most humane way.

Edited by Nine

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Couldn't think of a better word when typing that. How about objectification? As is, I'd like to think the point I was trying to get across is discernible despite not using the word to its specific definition, in referencing human beings.

 

If it wasn't, let me know and I can re-explain.

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How does one strip the humanity away from something that was never human to begin with?

As Nine explained, it's not about them 'losing their humanity,' it's about people forgetting about the animal that the meat came from. They see a delicious slice of chicken and usually don't even think for a second 'well gee, I hope this chicken was at least raised and killed humanely.'

 

I'm pretty bad on that front myself--I feel better when I eat free range raised meat or whatever, but most of the time I don't even think about the animals behind my meals unless I'm confronted with a specific case of cruelty. I don't mind eating animals in the slightest, but I do wish it was done in the most humane way possible. Just gotta believe that there's a way for people to eat meat on a large scale without all standards of the animal's lives hitting rock bottom in the process.

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As Nine explained, it's not about them 'losing their humanity,' it's about people forgetting about the animal that the meat came from. They see a delicious slice of chicken and usually don't even think for a second 'well gee, I hope this chicken was at least raised and killed humanely.'

I frankly don't care. Given all the other crap I have to worry about in my life, how my food died is not ever going to make it to the list.

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I doubt I'll ever donate to any places to help humans. We just keep destroying every bit of this planet. It's sickening.

 

Animals will always come before humans for me. Earth and the rest of the Universe would be better off without us.

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I have never donated to any human charity other than my church and a pregnancy center.

 

I would way rather donate my money to help save animals. The only humans that have ever done me any good are friends and family. I care about them. But animals are my carreer. They are my friends, my family, and my future.

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Sorry, humans. I donate money to animal charities. I simply have a greater affinity for animals. Humans, as a general rule, are quite destructive, greedy, and fairly annoying. Of course, the fine folks on this forum are an exception. wink.gif

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I also notice that people keep saying that without humans, animals like pandas would go extinct. Guess who cut down all of the bamboo forests? humans. And, for the record, dolphins are actually self-aware, have complex dialects, and have incredable cognitive skills. Humans aren't much smarter than dolphins.

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I sometimes thought human should be 'extinct' for other species. I told that to my friend, their reply was 'Then kill yourself first.'

Edited by sh20000sh

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I sometimes thought human should 'extinct' for other species. I told that to my friend, their reply was 'Then kill yourself first.'

...O.o I do hope they meant that in a "just kidding around" kind of a way...^^'

 

And nope. Humans are def not more important than animals, come on, we ARE animals, we're just called humans, as monkeys are called monkeys, etc. O.o

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Well, animals are really important and stuff and technically humans are animals too. I think you sounded a little harsh and painted her in a bad light, by the way you were talking. It sounded like you didn't even consider her idea for whatever project you guys were doing for school or whatever.

 

I think that sometimes, there are things WAYYY more important than humans, like the jungles that are getting cut down at a rate of almost 300 acres a minute (a lot right.) It's totally important to keep animals like tigers alive, because if we decided not to care about any one species that the people would like, start killing all the species and then we'd only have farm animals and maybe birds left. I don't want to live in a world like that, personally.

I hate how some people can be so ignorant and closed-minded to think that animals have no feelings, and I hate how people don't even bat an eye when they eat a chicken or a burger. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU GOT LOCKED UP IN A CAGE FOR THE *WHOLE* 3 YEARS OF YOUR LIFE, JUST TO BE BRUTALLY MURDERED AND THEN TO HAVE YOUR FLESH CHEWED UP BY SOME LARGE WAD OF POINTLESS MEAT WHO DOESN'T EVEN CARE THAT YOU DIED?!

On that note, I would like to mention that one of the reasons I despise my father is that he makes me eat the disgusting substances, because he's from like 100 years ago when vegan/vegetarianism didn't exist. He's yelled at me before, along with my stupid old grandmother I have to live with, for not eating the shiz and 'wasting' it. He then goes on about a nutrition speech to try to convince me to eat. The thing is, I honestly don't even like the taste of most meats. ARGH.

I really hate people sometimes, they don't even care. People PARADE themselves around wearing the skull-less heads of innocent foxes AS SCARVES. It's considered 'high fashion'! I wonder how people would react if someone wore a human's face and spine-skin around their neck, I bet they'd get thrown in jail for the rest of their lives. But no, in fact most people wish they had a mink coat, as for some reason wearing the fur of a defenseless creature, sometimes only very young, is respected.

Of course no one cares, why should they? What do animals even have to do with an average person's life anyway? I bet a dog never dragged an average person out of a burning building. I find it funny that no one remembers the stories of hero animals, but everyone knows about the shark who bit that one surfer's left arm off. It wasn't even believed that animals could see in color, or even have emotions or significant senses until about 15 or so years ago.

*sigh*

Maybe things will be better someday, we can always have hope....

 

I find this link relevant: VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED http://ar.vegnews.org/vegan.html?ref=profile

Edited by Oasis

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Well, animals are really important and stuff and technically humans are animals too. I think you sounded a little harsh and painted her in a bad light, by the way you were talking. It sounded like you didn't even consider her idea for whatever project you guys were doing for school or whatever.

 

I think that sometimes, there are things WAYYY more important than humans, like the jungles that are getting cut down at a rate of almost 300 acres a minute (a lot right.) It's totally important to keep animals like tigers alive, because if we decided not to care about any one species that the people would like, start killing all the species and then we'd only have farm animals and maybe birds left. I don't want to live in a world like that, personally.

I hate how some people can be so ignorant and closed-minded to think that animals have no feelings, and I hate how people don't even bat an eye when they eat a chicken or a burger. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU GOT LOCKED UP IN A CAGE FOR THE *WHOLE* 3 YEARS OF YOUR LIFE, JUST TO BE BRUTALLY MURDERED AND THEN TO HAVE YOUR FLESH CHEWED UP BY SOME LARGE WAD OF POINTLESS MEAT WHO DOESN'T EVEN CARE THAT YOU DIED?!

On that note, I would like to mention that one of the reasons I despise my father is that he makes me eat the disgusting substances, because he's from like 100 years ago when vegan/vegetarianism didn't exist. He's yelled at me before, along with my stupid old grandmother I have to live with, for not eating the shiz and 'wasting' it. He then goes on about a nutrition speech to try to convince me to eat. The thing is, I honestly don't even like the taste of most meats. ARGH.

I really hate people sometimes, they don't even care. People PARADE themselves around wearing the skull-less heads of innocent foxes AS SCARVES. It's considered 'high fashion'! I wonder how people would react if someone wore a human's face and spine-skin around their neck, I bet they'd get thrown in jail for the rest of their lives. But no, in fact most people wish they had a mink coat, as for some reason wearing the fur of a defenseless creature, sometimes only very young, is respected.

Of course no one cares, why should they? What do animals even have to do with an average person's life anyway? I bet a dog never dragged an average person out of a burning building. I find it funny that no one remembers the stories of hero animals, but everyone knows about the shark who bit that one surfer's left arm off. It wasn't even believed that animals could see in color, or even have emotions or significant senses until about 15 or so years ago.

*sigh*

Maybe things will be better someday, we can always have hope....

 

I find this link relevant: VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED http://ar.vegnews.org/vegan.html?ref=profile

Oasis said it better than I ever could.

 

Really, sh20000sh, you clearly don't respect life.

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I think it's very possible to be too harsh towards humans too :I

 

Generally I try to stay away from strong opinions because I'm pretty meek and try not to offend anyone, and it's not like I'm one of those people who think humans are superior to all other animals or something but.

 

As long as you exist, there will be collateral damage. If you step on the grass, you're dehydrating billions of amoebas to death. When you move, entropy is irreversibly increased. On a larger scale too, even if you're a vegan, whatever was used to harvest the crops you eat probably crushed many small mammals and insects, not to mention pesticides and all that. Even non-human animals hunt and eat other animals out of necessity. No matter what you do, your existence is going to negatively impact someone. So really the question is: where do we draw the line? How much negative impact is too much, and is that value constant regardless of a person's circumstances?

 

This is kind of where things get controversial so I'll be sliding out of the way. But I don't think there can possibly be an absolute value for this. I try to judge morality on a case-by-case basis to minimize generalization but. Morality is hard. Everything is hard.

Edited by Fractional Pi Day

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I think it's very possible to be too harsh towards humans too :I

 

Generally I try to stay away from strong opinions because I'm pretty meek and try not to offend anyone, and it's not like I'm one of those people who think humans are superior to all other animals or something but.

 

As long as you exist, there will be collateral damage. If you step on the grass, you're dehydrating billions of amoebas to death. When you move, entropy is irreversibly increased. On a larger scale too, even if you're a vegan, whatever was used to harvest the crops you eat probably crushed many small mammals and insects, not to mention pesticides and all that. Even non-human animals hunt and eat other animals out of necessity. No matter what you do, your existence is going to negatively impact someone. So really the question is: where do we draw the line? How much negative impact is too much, and is that value constant regardless of a person's circumstances?

 

This is kind of where things get controversial so I'll be sliding out of the way. But I don't think there can possibly be an absolute value for this. I try to judge morality on a case-by-case basis to minimize generalization but. Morality is hard. Everything is hard.

I hate life, I just don't want to kill anything. /hides in corner.

My big point is that animals are just treated with so little respect compared to humans, and yeah...

 

Thanks Koala, by the way :]

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I like what Fractional Pi Day said. :3

 

Although I don't eat meat, I think it's clearly natural for people to eat animals. The only reason I don't eat it is because of a personal choice considering treatment/etc. of some animals for slaughter. I never try to shame people who eat meat. The people who try to shame just embarrass me.

I'm okay with hunting, but I do prefer it if the animal is used somehow so it doesn't go to waste. I have more of a problem with animals that were abused or neglected by their owners; I volunteer primarily with an equine rescue. Abuse is the thing that will get me angry, but then that applies to humans abusing other humans as well (I also help with therapy for abused children.) I think it's more of a general morality of mine to show respect to other living things of any species, and humans don't exactly show each other respect all the time.

 

I may value animal company and have a greater affinity with them than with other humans, but I don't really compare animalkind and humanity in general.

Edited by Dimar

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I like what Fractional Pi Day said. :3

 

Although I don't eat meat, I think it's clearly natural for people to eat animals. The only reason I don't eat it is because of a personal choice considering treatment/etc. of some animals for slaughter. I never try to shame people who eat meat. The people who try to shame just embarrass me.

I'm okay with hunting, but I do prefer it if the animal is used somehow so it doesn't go to waste. I have more of a problem with animals that were abused or neglected by their owners; I volunteer primarily with an equine rescue. Abuse is the thing that will get me angry, but then that applies to humans abusing other humans as well (I also help with therapy for abused children.) I think it's more of a general morality of mine to show respect to other living things of any species, and humans don't exactly show each other respect all the time.

 

I may value animal company and have a greater affinity with them than with other humans, but I don't really compare animalkind and humanity in general.

Omg Dimar I love your position biggrin.gif

 

 

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I hate life, I just don't want to kill anything. /hides in corner.

My big point is that animals are just treated with so little respect compared to humans, and yeah...

 

Thanks Koala, by the way :]

Predators in the wild are probably too busy trying to survive to respect their prey either, I suspect. If you look at it the other way, you could see it as impressive that we've come up with the idea of respect at all. Of course many people do not apply it equally to members of other species, but you know, we're making progress, and I don't even care what anyone else thinks on this because that's great.

 

Dimar: Eeeeee thank you u///v///u I pretty much agree with your last sentence, on a note more related to the topic.

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This is a wall, and it contains some fairly college-level/worldwide view/critical thinking here and there, so for people who cannot grasp it ( because I suck at explaining ) don't mind me~ <3

I do have a tl;dr version at the bottom for you guys, LMAO.

 

I love animals. I'm a Biology Major who's going back for Zoology when I'm finished up here. I always donate for animal causes. I rescue animals, with the latest being a kitten which actually had her tail either torched or skinned off by some sadistic people. Her tail was all bone.

 

However, humans are inwardly-social animals themselves and typically have the instinct to help out where they can. I mean honestly guys, how does your eyes not water when you hear about a random stranger risking his or her life to help someone stranded after a hurricane like Katrina or Rita and so forth?

 

Just today, after church, there was a man who had a sign "I lost my job and I need money for my family" in the lot. He was using the back of a puppy calender and, though he was wearing a suit, it was clear it hadn't been washed in a while. When people gave him money while driving by, he begged for them to get out of their cars so he could hug and pray for them. I along with my older brothers instinctively gave him whatever we had in our wallets.

 

When an animal needs help, it needs help.

When a human claims to need help, they may be just lying, but you know what? I don't even freaking care. As long as I DON'T know they're lying, I feel like I helped someone.

Humans exercise the will to be "good or bad" far more than animals. That can be good or a fault, naturally, but don't we all have that right?

 

I have to be honest. I don't like the fanatics who are "crazy about animals" and hate humans like dirt. Humans are animals, ladies and gentlemen. i just.. I can't take people like that seriously. I think they're just in high school and need to blow off some steam/make sure that people think they're not like everyone else and need to be seen as individuals. Which is okay! I know that in high school, it's easy to get lost in the humdrum "bell rings here and bell rings there" lifestyle that makes you feel like you're just another in the ocean. But honestly, if you're not a troubled teen, that's what you sound like. I'm sorry. D:

Some of them have a legitimate, personal reason as to why they do ( like a friend of mine who was wronged by many people and now psychologically needs animals to stay calm in public ) but honestly, some of them just "want to be different" and want attention, etc. like typical adolescents. I know real vegetarians, who have been all their life, who still don't hate humans like dirt. In fact, the one vegetarian I'm closest to has a motto/saying about other vegetarians ragging on humans: "You'd think all their "peace and no murder" talk would include humans, too." He basically calls "hypocrite" in his own (smart-mouthed) way.

 

I GET that humans are behind a lot(if not all) of the problems we're having now - ah, wait. What about people from Haiti? And other very small countries? Horticulturists and Foragers? Whose lifestyle, you know.. has absolutely NO negative impact on nature? Well, there's humans so they must be including despite the fact that we don't know anything about other countries/cultures beyond the ones school teaches us about.

Come on, guys. The Industrial Age does not effect all countries/cultures. Not even close The Industrial guys ( that's us - America, UK, China, etc. ) are taking from the land more than it can give for commercial uses and profit, and THAT'S making the issues. How? Obviously the resource issue, but you know what else changes when we're living good? Population.

In a place like Papua New Guinea, they don't have children when food is scarce, and they barely ever have more than one or two children. The general population is Foragers ( for those of you who don't know - that's the "we always move around based on the seasons and build camps as we go" lifestyle ) and naturally children all over is going to end up with them getting eaten by wild animals. Or a lack in food, since they don't stock up freezers and have superstores. They eat what they kill and what they eat they share with their whole group.

 

Humans around the world are NOT the same and do NOT provide NEARLY the same issues towards animals, the earth and state of living. For those of you who are pointing fingers at everyone but yourself: if you live in an Industrial Age country, guess what? The problem is us. It's you and me. If you want to truly help animals/the earth by not being a hypocrit in SOME way, go live with Horticulturists ( farmers who don't farm commercially ) or Foragers. Both of them do not use money - they trade food for food and item for item. There's no need there to be greedy or sell things/kill animals in bulk. Problem solved! <3

Unless I mean, you can't do without the technology you're using right now to be online. Then you take the good with the bad and have to accept that you are feeding the issue.

 

 

Quoting Oasis:

I hate how some people can be so ignorant and closed-minded to think that animals have no feelings, and I hate how people don't even bat an eye when they eat a chicken or a burger. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU GOT LOCKED UP IN A CAGE FOR THE *WHOLE* 3 YEARS OF YOUR LIFE, JUST TO BE BRUTALLY MURDERED AND THEN TO HAVE YOUR FLESH CHEWED UP BY SOME LARGE WAD OF POINTLESS MEAT WHO DOESN'T EVEN CARE THAT YOU DIED?!

 

 

I'm really sorry about your father making you eat "disgusting substances" ( which disgusting may not be a good word to use if you love/are supporting animals because.. yeah, it sends a different initial message. ), but I take offense to the fact that you immediately have a chip on your shoulder over omnivorous humans who, by nature, simply don't want to puke when they have food in front of them. You seem to be linking omnivorous humans to AUTOMATICALLY having no feeling for animals and thus say "yeah, animals caged up? LOL! Don't care, bahaaa." as a fallout. Not true. At all.

You called humans a "pointless wad of meat." does that include you and your parents and your siblings and everyone you love/want the best for? I hope not. >: *snugs*

 

I'm an omnivorous human. Not by preference - my MOTHER fed me meat, I'm used to it, I eat it. It's the same reason why we can eat here in America and then go to China and be like "wow, this is what people eat? hmm.. I'm not sure I like it" - they're USED to it, and we're USED to something else. It's in our design, now. Sure, we can change, but some easier than others while others may not even feel its necessary to change.

 

I don't feel like eating meat makes me a hypocritical liar. I love animals. I don't hate humans. I strive for a population balance that Industrial, "booming" countries may never find. And even then, inside our booming countries, I seek for a time where there are no lower class, or at least very very few, so that we can live in the most harmony that we can. Is that achievable? In America? Not unless we get rid of our "freedom thing" we got going on, which I hope doesn't happen but we're leaning that way. D: ( but that's another story. )

 

I eat meat because of the benefits and how it is in the human design by nature. I don't slap by cat in the face for eating meat-based, all-natural foods and say "you idiot! you eat meat and those CHICKENS DIED FOR YOU?" Why not? It's NATURAL. He eats it because it's natural. And no, they don't need meat - in fact, a lot of foods just have fillers and such and no real meat at all. So guys against the production of animals for meat, next time you want to feed Spot or Whiskers, get them cheap food so they don't eat meat. Let their coats dry out and their energy levels drop. When they stand next to one of my pets you'll probably see a huge difference.

I will only have the best for my baby. I'm sorry.

Because I love animals. I love my baby Prince ( and my sweet Pinscher Alistair! ) and I want him to eat nothing that he couldn't find in the wild. No nasty fillers and other things cats don't digest. I don't want my baby to be bloated or feel not so good.

My baby eats meat.

 

This is an endless loop here, isn't it?

 

 

Quoting Dimar:

 

Although I don't eat meat, I think it's clearly natural for people to eat animals. The only reason I don't eat it is because of a personal choice considering treatment/etc. of some animals for slaughter. I never try to shame people who eat meat. The people who try to shame just embarrass me.

 

I hate when people try to shame me/just outright do it for me eating meat. I have a lot of great friends who also feel that way like you do. n_n

Shaming anyone for their way of living is wrong.

 

 

 

 

SO. tl;dr: I don't feel like it's humans versus animals or omnivores versus herbivores. You can't base all humans on just the Industrial Age countries due to your cultural-shortsightedness and when you do you primarily sound like a very normal adolescent who wants to stand out/be the difference. Omnivores are not "omg instant terrible people!" but I do think highly of herbivores/vegetarians and as long as they don't try to SHAME ME, we make great friends. Pretty much the same with Aethiests. I'm Christian but that doesn't make me any different than an Aethiest. I eat meat but that doesn't make me any different than vegetarians.

I'm human and that doesn't give me any more natural rights than animals.

 

The end. I'm done. Sorry guys. xd.png Going to bed now. Sleep helps reduce my rambling.

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