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Are humans more important than animals?

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True. Also, though, cats don't always play with their food. They can just get on with it and kill it quickly. Also, in that scenario, the mouse usually had a reasonable life beforehand, whereas animals that are raised for food don't really get great lives. Most often, they are extremely crowded and get food that makes them sick. Not to say that this is always the case, but in most commercial companies, it happens. How an animal is killed is one thing, how it's treated in general is another.

Right, but most people are aware that cats do enjoy torturing their food. My cat will "hunt" insects and pull off their wings, legs, and occasionally hard shells in the case of beetles before she'll just lick them up and crunch them. Whether that's instinct to remove teeth/claws to avoid pain while eating or just because they get off on that sort of thing, who knows, but I'd think that'd at least hurt a little >.o

 

There are a few smaller, non-commercial, farms that treat their animals alright. Mostly just little local family-run places, and as a result are more expensive, but they do exist. That's why I hate the meat industry as a whole, but recognize that there are a few good spots.

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That is true. My cat doesn't torture bugs, but he will play with rats when he can. I don't know why, but I'm not sure that he's aware that they can feel pain. (I'm not trying to defend him or anything. Just trying to come up with some explanation.)

I'm well aware of the smaller, non-commercial places - my aunt and uncle have meat cattle. I hate seeing them because I know that they'll die, but they've got a reasonable life - pastures with lots of space and food. Still, I think this is more common in Nebraska, where they live, versus California, where I live. I could never find a place like that around here to buy from if I ate meat. But many places, the one that you can buy from here, don't treat the animals well. That's what I dislike.

Edited by Snow Plow

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Right, but most people are aware that cats do enjoy torturing their food. My cat will "hunt" insects and pull off their wings, legs, and occasionally hard shells in the case of beetles before she'll just lick them up and crunch them. Whether that's instinct to remove teeth/claws to avoid pain while eating or just because they get off on that sort of thing, who knows, but I'd think that'd at least hurt a little >.o

Cats don't torture their food, and they don't enjoy inflicting pain. What they are doing is pulling the inedible bits off in the case of insects, and in the case of 'playing' with mice, it seems the cats that do that have been denied the chance to hunt, or are perhaps trying to teach their human children how to hunt. I had a cat that very rarely 'played' with her food, the reason being she was an outside cat and huntress supreme and chased it down. She caught birds and rats, rats big enough to fight back, so it would have been dangerous for her to let the prey go just to try to catch it again.

 

If someone has a cat that's 'playing' with their food, perhaps getting them a cat toy that uses up their hunting instinct would help curb the behavior?

 

If cats really enjoyed inflicting pain, they would probably do far, far more gruesome things to mice than they do. Not only that, but they wouldn't play with laser pointers the same way they play with mice. Since laser pointers feel exquisite pain and all... What they do surely does hurt their prey, of course. Getting killed and eaten would.

Edited by Princess Artemis

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To be honest any outdoor cat that brings it's prey inside alive is trying to teach it's humans to hunt. Sometimes they'll bring them in dead to eat (which, incidently, they're also doing for your 'benefit'), but mostly they'll kill and eat outside. The only reason an adult cat doesn't kill it's prey is when it's trying to teach it's kittens to hunt - and a lot of them will decide that we're over grown kittens. They're pretty much trying to show us what to do.

 

I've seen them start off by bringing in things that are pretty much dead already. Then once they think you've got the hang of that (which, because we pick said animals up and take them back outside, they think we manage pretty quickly) they'll move on to livlier stuff. 'Playing' with it helps keep it moving so that we can see, and (they hope) try to copy what they're doing. They eventualy get to the point where whatever it is they've brought in has almost no damage to it, and I've known cats sit back and do nothing but watch while you chase it around the living room trying to catch it so you can take it back outside again.

 

The whole 'playing' thing is instinct, pure and simple. Either instinct to teach you how to hunt (the adult cat part of their mentality showing through) or the instinct to practise hunting techniques, which is the kittenish part of their brains. You have to remember that pet cats are in a very unusual mental place - actions such as stroking them is a reminder to them of their mothers washing them, and pedaling (when they stamp on you or something else with their paws) is going right back to being a small kitten kneading it's mother for milk while it sucks. Pet cats are caught between being kittens and being adults, so it's hardly surprising that they display behaviours of both.

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Tiki, do male cats do that too? I always thought that females would be the only ones to do that, I don't recall males actually taking a parental role with their youngsters. Do they?

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I'm just gonna say about the 'Humanely raising and killing an animal'stuff,have you seen the way pigs and chickens are raised?Stuck in cages barely big enough for them to turn around in?

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Tiki, do male cats do that too? I always thought that females would be the only ones to do that, I don't recall males actually taking a parental role with their youngsters. Do they?

Neutered males certainly do, yes. I couldn't comment on entire toms, because I've never known any that were allowed free reign. Neutered males will actualy take a fair bit of interest in kittens if you let them. Back when Mum first started handrearing we had a neutered boy that used to carry the kitten to a warm place and sit there washing it.

 

Feral cats don't live singly, they tend to live in colonies of between 3 and 25 adults. While they hunt seperately, and have their own ranges, there's usualy a communal place the colony will gather at to sleep and rear the kittens. As far as I'm aware most members of the colony take some interest in rearing the kittens, and one queen will often look after kittens other than her own while the actual mother goes to hunt. There aren't often large numbers of males in these colonies, and it's not something I've made a study of, but I imagine the whole colony takes and active part in teaching the kittens to hunt, as it would put far too much strain on the mother if she was having to hunt for herself (to a level where she can produce milk) on top of having to bring semi-alive prey in for the kits.

 

Edited to add:

 

I'm just gonna say about the 'Humanely raising and killing an animal'stuff,have you seen the way pigs and chickens are raised?Stuck in cages barely big enough for them to turn around in?

 

Good grief, how many times... NOT all animals are raised in that fashion. Seriously. Just pay a bit of attention to where you are getting your food *from*. Read the packaging. If you have a problem with battery farming then buy your meat and eggs from places that don't farm in that fashion. Yes, it's more expensive. But that's why battery farming is still happening. It's cheaper, the end product is cheaper, and the majority of people will tend to buy something less expensive over something more expensive. If everyone stopped buying the meat from battery farmed sources then battery farming would stop being economicaly viable.

Edited by TikindiDragon

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To be honest any outdoor cat that brings it's prey inside alive is trying to teach it's humans to hunt. Sometimes they'll bring them in dead to eat (which, incidently, they're also doing for your 'benefit'), but mostly they'll kill and eat outside. The only reason an adult cat doesn't kill it's prey is when it's trying to teach it's kittens to hunt - and a lot of them will decide that we're over grown kittens. They're pretty much trying to show us what to do.

 

I've seen them start off by bringing in things that are pretty much dead already. Then once they think you've got the hang of that (which, because we pick said animals up and take them back outside, they think we manage pretty quickly) they'll move on to livlier stuff. 'Playing' with it helps keep it moving so that we can see, and (they hope) try to copy what they're doing. They eventualy get to the point where whatever it is they've brought in has almost no damage to it, and I've known cats sit back and do nothing but watch while you chase it around the living room trying to catch it so you can take it back outside again.

 

The whole 'playing' thing is instinct, pure and simple. Either instinct to teach you how to hunt (the adult cat part of their mentality showing through) or the instinct to practise hunting techniques, which is the kittenish part of their brains. You have to remember that pet cats are in a very unusual mental place - actions such as stroking them is a reminder to them of their mothers washing them, and pedaling (when they stamp on you or something else with their paws) is going right back to being a small kitten kneading it's mother for milk while it sucks. Pet cats are caught between being kittens and being adults, so it's hardly surprising that they display behaviours of both.

I swear my friend's old Tabby was a sadistic little thing.

 

He would bring it in dead and thrash and mangle it horribly until there were guts and rat bits everywhere. When he actually ATE them he did it outside. But the ones he brought inside he WAS just playing with, He would bring them in alive, tear them apart until they died, and then string it out everywhere. Mind you there were no other young cats and the only other cat was an avid hunter who never did this.

 

Out of curiosity is there a instinctive reason for the tabby to do that kind of gruesome thing to their prey? This wasn't simply killing or bringing it alive and setting free, this was bringing it in and torturing it D:

 

Also mind you, this cat was predominantly outdoors, so it's not like he was deprived of a chance to hunt D:

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Cats don't torture their food, and they don't enjoy inflicting pain. What they are doing is pulling the inedible bits off in the case of insects, and in the case of 'playing' with mice, it seems the cats that do that have been denied the chance to hunt, or are perhaps trying to teach their human children how to hunt.

I would disagree. In the Pennines in Italy, cats and dogs are semi-feral at best, kept not as pets but as guardians. The three semi-feral kittens I've had the pleasure of seeing - especially Shanti - as well as the fully-feral kitten I saw this year, all played with the lizards they had caught. Shanti spent *ten minutes* playing with a lizard who's leg he'd broken, letting it crawl maybe a few metres away before running up and batting it down the slope again. Ten minutes. Given how he could - and would - just catch and eat them as required, this play session didn't seem to serve any purpose at all.

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I would disagree. In the Pennines in Italy, cats and dogs are semi-feral at best, kept not as pets but as guardians. The three semi-feral kittens I've had the pleasure of seeing - especially Shanti - as well as the fully-feral kitten I saw this year, all played with the lizards they had caught. Shanti spent *ten minutes* playing with a lizard who's leg he'd broken, letting it crawl maybe a few metres away before running up and batting it down the slope again. Ten minutes. Given how he could - and would - just catch and eat them as required, this play session didn't seem to serve any purpose at all.

Are you disagreeing with my statement that cats don't torture their food, and don't enjoy inflicting pain? Did Shanti find the lizard and systematically do anything to the lizard? Act in any way that would indicate he was punishing the lizard or intentionally causing it extreme agony?

 

I find the idea that cats "enjoy torturing their food" completely ludicrous. If they are enjoying what they do, they are enjoying the play, not the pain. If cats were really torturers, they'd be much better at it, and I am pretty sure humans generally would be utterly appalled at their cruelty.

 

If you are disagreeing with my other statements, that's fine, that's why I said them with less certainty. They seem like reasonable guesses, and Tikindi has experience with one of them, so I'm much more confident in that as a reasonable explanation for most cats acting that way. So, did Shanti have any other cats around he might have been teaching? Or, since he's a kitten, was he practicing? That's what kittens do.

Edited by Princess Artemis

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Good grief, how many times... NOT all animals are raised in that fashion. Seriously. Just pay a bit of attention to where you are getting your food *from*. Read the packaging. If you have a problem with battery farming then buy your meat and eggs from places that don't farm in that fashion. Yes, it's more expensive. But that's why battery farming is still happening. It's cheaper, the end product is cheaper, and the majority of people will tend to buy something less expensive over something more expensive. If everyone stopped buying the meat from battery farmed sources then battery farming would stop being economicaly viable.

It's true, not all places are like this, but many are. The packaging tends to be very misleading, if it says anything at all, as are the websites. They're not going to say "Yeah, and we cut out cattle up alive, make them sick on too much corn, and crowd them so they can't move. Please buy our meat." They always have pictures of cattle grazing in lush green fields, which I know rarely happens. Honestly, if you can figure out how to tell which places are good, I'll thank you. I've looked at websites, packaging...most every place I can think of for eggs and milk, but I still haven't found anything.

 

Also, in response to cats torturing their food - I noticed that my cat watches me and sits down when he brings live rats to our door. I thought he was showing off, but Princess Artemis may have a point when she says that cats try to teach their human "kittens" to catch things. I only ever see signs of a struggle (Mostly blood spots and fur clumps)when I or my family have been around. Otherwise, he leaves the intestines for us and that's about it.

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I find the idea that cats "enjoy torturing their food" completely ludicrous. If they are enjoying what they do, they are enjoying the play, not the pain. If cats were really torturers, they'd be much better at it, and I am pretty sure humans generally would be utterly appalled at their cruelty.

 

If you are disagreeing with my other statements, that's fine, that's why I said them with less certainty. They seem like reasonable guesses, and Tikindi has experience with one of them, so I'm much more confident in that as a reasonable explanation for most cats acting that way. So, did Shanti have any other cats around he might have been teaching? Or, since he's a kitten, was he practicing? That's what kittens do.

Most humans are appalled by how much the animal suffers before the cat just kills the thing. They're definitely good at keeping it alive long enough to feel a great amount of fear and pain. Like I said, my cat will rip off the limbs and hard shells of insects, then just bat them around the floor like she does with her toy mice before she licks them up and crunches away. I've heard her collar's bell alert me that she was bouncing around a room that I'm not in, looked in, and found her toying with a very flustered spider or beetle. I wouldn't say she's "teaching" me in that regard, she's just enjoying that her "toys" are occasionally alive and fight back. After all, the only times I've seen her attacking insects like that are when I stumble on her doing it. When she brings the "prey" to me, they're already curled up and dead.

 

She's not a kitten at 2 years old, and she has no other cats to teach how to hunt. My parents' dog will even "hunt" bugs the same way; nosing her victims across the floor and pawing at them before she'll get bored and eat them. And she's a big dog, so it's not a little animal thing.

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I don't believe most people are appalled. After all, they still have cats as pets. If they were truly appalled at how 'sick and depraved' their pets were, they wouldn't have them as pets.

 

I believe most people recognize that that is just what a predator does, and there is no intent to inflict agony on the prey, certainly no sadistic pleasure at the pain.

Edited by Princess Artemis

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Jazi - it's not as if the cats knows it's causing pain and does what it does because it enjoys causing pain. All that cat knows is that's it's more fun, and better practise, if the animal keeps moving while they try and catch it.

 

Incidently they will try to teach humans how to hunt like cats, not just kittens.

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I don't believe most people are appalled.  After all, they still have cats as pets.  If they were truly appalled at how 'sick and depraved' their pets were, they wouldn't have them as pets.

 

I believe most people recognize that that is just what a predator does, and there is no intent to inflict agony on the prey, certainly no sadistic pleasure at the pain.

Considering people have venomous or aggressive reptiles as pets, I think most people wouldn't mind animals being cruel as long as they were "cute". Most people are totally cool with petting dolphins and harping on how cute and beautiful they are, and they're ridiculously sadistic towards other species and their own. They'll even rape each other and members of other species just because they can. But people still go to see dolphin shows or to swim with or pet the dolphins. We tend to gloss over the bad in the animals we deem as cute.

 

Edit:

Oh I'm aware, Tiki. I know they're not sitting around laughing at how the animal is dying, or at least I hope not. But they still do, and I was saying that a quick, humane death after a decent life isn't nearly as cruel as the way even our pet cats kill their prey. Doesn't mean that they don't torment their victims, though. They don't empathize the same way we do.

Edited by JaziandCo

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Edit:

Oh I'm aware, Tiki. I know they're not sitting around laughing at how the animal is dying, or at least I hope not. But they still do, and I was saying that a quick, humane death after a decent life isn't nearly as cruel as the way even our pet cats kill their prey. Doesn't mean that they don't torment their victims, though. They don't empathize the same way we do.

This is what I was getting at, that they aren't sitting around chuckling sadistically about how much pain they cause. That's what "enjoying torture" conjures up, that's what 'cruelty' conjures up.

 

Cruelty and torture are actions with a mindset that pretty much requires the species be far more intelligent than pet species are. Venomous and aggressive pet species are not, as a rule, cruel. Again, if they were, I very much doubt people would have them as pets! (And I think that the people who say dolphins are all sunshine and rainbows are ignorant of what dolphins are capable of. If they saw it, they wouldn't say that, though regardless, dolphins aren't pets.) I don't believe a cat is capable of cruelty, so no, the way a pet cat kills their prey cannot be cruel. Now dolphins and chimpanzees and species like that? Oh yeah, they are capable of cruelty.

 

I suspect there is some anthropomorphizing going on when words like cruelty and torture are used in regards to predator/prey relations for ordinary carnivores. Torment is a bit more fitting for what cats sometimes do.

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Are you disagreeing with my statement that cats don't torture their food, and don't enjoy inflicting pain? Did Shanti find the lizard and systematically do anything to the lizard? Act in any way that would indicate he was punishing the lizard or intentionally causing it extreme agony?

 

I find the idea that cats "enjoy torturing their food" completely ludicrous. If they are enjoying what they do, they are enjoying the play, not the pain. If cats were really torturers, they'd be much better at it, and I am pretty sure humans generally would be utterly appalled at their cruelty.

 

If you are disagreeing with my other statements, that's fine, that's why I said them with less certainty. They seem like reasonable guesses, and Tikindi has experience with one of them, so I'm much more confident in that as a reasonable explanation for most cats acting that way. So, did Shanti have any other cats around he might have been teaching? Or, since he's a kitten, was he practicing? That's what kittens do.

Well, why else would Shanti do what he did? You inferred that cats only 'toy' with their prey for entirely practical reasons, but in that instance (like many others) there was no reason to 'toy' with the lizard. It was wounded, Shanti gobbles them up quite nicely, so letting it run up a hill only to bat it down the slope, force it to run up the hill again to bat it down again, over and over, serves no functional purpose - it was entirely for pleasure.

 

So what was Shanti taking pleasure in? It may be that it enjoyed watching the lizard suffer and wanted it to be in pain. Whatever the reason, he played with it. For fun. No functional purpose at all. When he finally got bored he just ate it up just as he did all the others, in a quick and decisive movement.

 

My disagreement was you inferring cats never play, they only do what is needed. The question as to why it is to make the lizard suffer, or for just enjoying batting it around, is one I cannot offer an answer for.

 

Shanti was alone, and it didn't look like any form of practise that I could fathom. He just hit it down the mountain again and again.

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Its very simple, really:

Humans need to MAKE there own food, as in planting Fruits/Vegies, or making Pasta from wheat, and so on. After a mother Tiger has worked so hard on raising her babies, humans go out and KILL them! Animals should eat Animals, Humans should make their own food and not waist a mother Tigers time. I do not eat meat, because Animals ARE better than me, you, and everyone else in this Universe! This goes for every being in the Universe, Human to Animal, Animal to Alien. Seriously, I don't ever even kill a fly or spider (though, I'd kill you!) , they deserve to be free, and die when they get too old, NOT to be stepped on.

This goes for Trees, also, who get cut down, they fall when they need to, die when they need to!

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This is what I was getting at, that they aren't sitting around chuckling sadistically about how much pain they cause. That's what "enjoying torture" conjures up, that's what 'cruelty' conjures up.

 

Cruelty and torture are actions with a mindset that pretty much requires the species be far more intelligent than pet species are. Venomous and aggressive pet species are not, as a rule, cruel. Again, if they were, I very much doubt people would have them as pets! (And I think that the people who say dolphins are all sunshine and rainbows are ignorant of what dolphins are capable of. If they saw it, they wouldn't say that, though regardless, dolphins aren't pets.) I don't believe a cat is capable of cruelty, so no, the way a pet cat kills their prey cannot be cruel. Now dolphins and chimpanzees and species like that? Oh yeah, they are capable of cruelty.

 

I suspect there is some anthropomorphizing going on when words like cruelty and torture are used in regards to predator/prey relations for ordinary carnivores. Torment is a bit more fitting for what cats sometimes do.

I think you might be humanizing the word "torture" and "cruel". Most people agree that, like in Kestra's example, breaking the leg of an animal and watching it suffer, prolonging it's suffering, and even teasing it with the idea of freedom (letting it crawl away a bit) and then swatting it back to where it started... is cruel. Is the cat enjoying that the other creature is in pain, or is it just enjoying that they've found a new toy that's more engaging than a stray windblown leaf? Who knows. But they do seem to gather some pleasure out of it, either way.

 

Personally I don't think cats are malicious, which would be to harm something just for the heck of it, because I don't think they empathize the same way we do. But I do think that most predators are very cruel to their prey, because the death isn't fast and occasionally the prey is eaten alive or tortured. Painted dogs will wound an impala, then begin tearing out and eating its insides while it's still standing. Wolves do the same to deer. Cats make up games of chase with their prey, after wounding it to the point where it can't get away anyway.

 

A dog of mine once pinned down a rabbit and began pulling it's fur out. Didn't kill it first either, just started ripping out the fur. Why? I get that there's an instinct to get rid of the fur before tearing open the carcass, but while it's still alive, screaming, and fighting to get away? Wouldn't it be easier just to have bitten it on the head or neck or even around the middle first than to hold a struggling thing down? I don't know if she would have started eating it before killing it because we managed to get her away from it (and the rabbit lived), but to me that's similar to skinning and spicing an animal first, THEN killing it.

 

My point was that nature is a lot more cruel than people like to paint it, much like dolphins and swans. The media paints them as beautiful, gentle creatures... until you see their darker sides. Dolphins aren't pets because there's really no easy way to afford an enclosure for them. There are a lot people who would LOVE to have a pet dolphin... if they could afford the enclosure, space, and food they needed.

 

 

 

That's why I've said, over and over, that eating the meat from an animal raised on a small family-run farm in humane conditions and killed humanely as well is not cruel. The idea of an animal raised simply for food, so long as it lives in those conditions, is not cruel. And it's a far better cry from the end they'd meet out in the real world of nature.

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I do agree with you, Jazi, to some point. True, a humane life for every animal is better than a natural life (Sometimes), but that rarely happens. I don't even know what we're trying to prove here, either of us. We have different views of animals. I think that they can think and have emotions, some people don't. As long as they're treated well, it doesn't matter what you think. This whole argument about cats, while it is interesting, doesn't seem to have much purpose. Am I missing something here? Both humans and animals are capable of cruelty. Really, we all know that.

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I do agree with you, Jazi, to some point. True, a humane life for every animal is better than a natural life (Sometimes), but that rarely happens. I don't even know what we're trying to prove here, either of us. We have different views of animals. I think that they can think and have emotions, some people don't. As long as they're treated well, it doesn't matter what you think. This whole argument about cats, while it is interesting, doesn't seem to have much purpose. Am I missing something here? Both humans and animals are capable of cruelty. Really, we all know that.

I think it's from me bringing up that a humane life and death is better than a natural life and death because predators will often not bother to kill their meal first (though it seems silly because a dead animal can't fight back), including cats in my examples, and then apparently that sparked an argument on whether or not it can be considered cruel. On the whole cat thing, that is.

 

I definitely think animals can think and feel, just not like us. I think their worlds are much simpler than ours. I'm sure my parents' dog feels loyalty and affection towards me, but does she love me? I dunno. But she makes every effort to make sure I'm safe in her doggy mind, so I do know she considers me part of her "pack" and as a result part of her family.

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Considering people have venomous or aggressive reptiles as pets, I think most people wouldn't mind animals being cruel as long as they were "cute". Most people are totally cool with petting dolphins and harping on how cute and beautiful they are, and they're ridiculously sadistic towards other species and their own. They'll even rape each other and members of other species just because they can. But people still go to see dolphin shows or to swim with or pet the dolphins. We tend to gloss over the bad in the animals we deem as cute.

I think the complexity of dolphins' social structure is actually really incredible. I personally adore marine mammals just because they're so fascinating. They're beautiful to watch, and I do believe people should be more educated about them.

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My disagreement was you inferring cats never play, they only do what is needed. The question as to why it is to make the lizard suffer, or for just enjoying batting it around, is one I cannot offer an answer for.

 

Shanti was alone, and it didn't look like any form of practise that I could fathom. He just hit it down the mountain again and again.

Oh, I didn't infer that; if I seemed to, that was my poor communication. Cats play, of course they do. I put a single quote around play before because I don't particularly like the shorthand "cats play with their food", as if that's all they are doing. Kitten play is often a form of practice, though, just like the play most anyone engages in. Play does serve a practical purpose. Even the most inane, mind-numbing play does. Pretty sure Shanti didn't break the lizard's leg so he could get his rocks off to a lizard in pain though. That would require Shanti being capable of recognizing that lizards can feel pain. Do you think cats can do that?

 

I think you might be humanizing the word "torture" and "cruel".

 

I don't. Torture refers to an act that is mainly intended to gain information or as a punishment. It has other meanings derived from this, but in the case of an intelligent actor committing torture, especially enjoying it, it does mean something most animals just don't do. Cruelty is willful. It's in the same realm as malice. That's what those words mainly mean. Yes, I'm narrowing them down, I'm de-sensationalizing, I'm taking the 'dark' paint off and trying to say 'it's not evil either, it's just the way it is'. Using emotionally charged words to combat a picture of oppositely charged words doesn't strike me as right--it's a disservice to nature which is its own thing.

 

Yes, I completely agree with you that nature is largely without remorse and without pity. It isn't nice, it isn't without pain. There are much easier ways to die than via predator in the wild, and yes, many humans kill their food in those much nicer ways. But nature isn't cruel. Your dog was not being cruel by ripping the fur off that rabbit, your dog was being a dog. Dogs hurt rabbits, obviously, but they don't go out of their way to willfully hurt rabbits. You already said you get that she has instincts, so there you go. That's why she did it. Perhaps she had already bitten the rabbit and moved onto step two early because your dog is domesticated and her instincts are somewhat impaired.

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Actually, the definition of cruel is just "causing pain or suffering". An animal can be cruel without having malicious intent. So can a person. You were right with torture, though.

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My option is this,

 

Imagine You were a Jaguar,You raised your babies,you teached Them How to eat meat,How You teached Them to hunt too,How to be independent,and then people appear,you do not know What are Those strange creatures and then They would kill you.My option is,if I could donate to small population of Gavials or small village in Africa ,I would give 750 dollars to animals and 250 dollars to people.It is ,becouse population of humans is TOO HIGH and there would not be problems in Africa,India etc. if there would be less people.It is our fault that We donate to animals ,but starving children in Africa is our problem too.That is my option.

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