American Politics

[AngelsSin]

58 minutes ago, RainDear said:

@AngelsSin: I agree some of Nostradamus' prophecies seem frighteningly close to the mark.

 

I am hoping against hope that it turns out to be a failed prophecy. But more and more it's looking as if it will be another one of his successful prophecies. And that is a truly scary thought. He left us warnings/signs to look for/guide posts to let us know when it is approaching, and I see us speeding past them and we are picking up speed. He even warns us we won't stop it/realise  in time. More than anything I want to be wrong on this.

 

I hate Trump as well. I don't like letting my heart be filled with hate but he makes that impossible. I always knew he was a horrible person, and like you was stunned and horrified when he actually won. I fear him and his supporters as well.

I am happy to see my fellow Americans rise up against this injustice, but I worry that with the path we are on it's a bit late like we are a freight train speeding towards a bridge that is broken and impassable and we are only trying to put the breaks on just before we run out of bridge.

Edited June 4, 2020 by AngelsSin

[purplehaze]

Ex-defense chief Mattis speaks out against Trump:

Quote

In an extraordinary rebuke, former defense secretary Jim Mattis on Wednesday denounced President Donald Trump’s heavy-handed use of military force to quell protests near the White House and said his former boss was setting up a “false conflict” between the military and civilian society.
“I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled,” Mattis wrote.

(...)

Mattis had a scathing description of Trump’s walk to a historic nearby church Monday to pose with a Bible after law enforcement forcibly cleared Lafayette Square of mostly peaceful protesters.

He said he never dreamed troops “would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens — much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.”

"Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people —does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us,” Mattis wrote in a statement published by The Atlantic. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership.”

Mattis called on Americans to unite without Trump. “This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children,” he wrote.

Mattis said of the protesters that Americans should not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. He said they are rightly demanding that the country follow the words of “Equal Justice Under Law” that are on display at the U.S. Supreme Court....

 

Of course in typical Trumpian style the President reacted by lashing out at Mattis as “the world’s most overrated General.”

https://apnews.com/47a55054ccd7912fd7ceae833fc3feb6

 

Found the article in The Atlantic which contains the whole text of Mattis' statement:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

Edited June 4, 2020 by purplehaze

[Astreya]

The German satire magazine extra3 had something to say about Trump threatening protesters with dogs and hiding in the White House bunker:

"Creepy: Outside the battle rages. A megalomaniac sits with his wife in the bunker and a dog is supposed to guard him. This doesn't sound like strength, it sounds more like Berlin 1945."

Here's the full US sketch of the show for those who understand German:

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Astreya

[Fuzzbucket]

11 hours ago, Lagie said:

This is scary -

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/the-question-isnt-whether-trump-will-go-full-authoritarian-its-how-well-respond/

 

That article comes up as unavailable...

 

Never mind- got into it  another way !

 

9 hours ago, RainDear said:

@AngelsSin: I agree some of Nostradamus' prophecies seem frighteningly close to the mark.

 

I agree with you, RainDear. (I am all for woo woo anyway !)

Edited June 4, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[random_dragon_collector]

13 hours ago, Lagie said:

This is scary -

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/the-question-isnt-whether-trump-will-go-full-authoritarian-its-how-well-respond/

 

Last night there were news stories of busloads of soldiers coming into D.C. at dinner time.  I was actually very fearful that something awful was going to happen last night.  I stayed up an hour past the curfew in D.C. to keep track of the news, went to bed, and woke up this morning relieved that there wasn't a huge clash overnight.

[Astreya]

Yesterday's heute show had a pretty scathing comment about Mr.Trump and his handling of the recent events in the US.

It's in German, but at 03:40 there is a very fitting part in English, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC59jY180Yo

 

[Fuzzbucket]

How is this even - words fail me here.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/05/new-york-state-57-police-resign-to-support-officers-fired-for-shoving-75-year-old 

[olympe]

Did I get this right? Two police officers needlessly hurt an old man in a way that could have easily ended in a fatality, the officers get suspended - and 57 others resign in solidarity to this atrocious behavior? America, quo vadis?

[Astreya]

2 hours ago, olympe said:

America, quo vadis?

Right into the depths of fascism with accelerating speed:

 

"Teargassed, beaten up, arrested: what freedom of the press looks like in the US right now - As protests spread across the US, journalists are being attacked by police forces and even sustaining serious injuries"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/06/george-floyd-protests-reporters-press-teargas-arrested

 

"Rightwing vigilantes on armed patrol after fake rumours of antifa threat - Groups of men patrolling streets in parts of western US"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/06/rightwing-vigilante-armed-antifa-protests

 

"Protests about police brutality are met with wave of police brutality across US - Use teargas, batons, pepper spray, fists, feet and vehicles against protesters sparks lawsuits and international condemnation"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/06/police-violence-protests-us-george-floyd

 

"Why are some US police forces equipped like military units? - Controversial programme allows access to military gear including armoured vehicles, helicopters and grenade launchers"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/05/why-are-some-us-police-forces-equipped-like-military-units

 

"Sean Monterrosa: Vallejo police under investigation after killing of unarmed man - California justice department launches ‘review and reform agreement’ days after officer shot 22-year-old"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/05/california-vallejo-police-shooting-sean-monterrosa

(Let's see if this leads to more police resignations, too)

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Astreya

[olympe]

I really, really wanted to visit the US after Covid has blown over. Right now, I'm rethinking that. Canada sounds quite lovely in comparison...

[AngelsSin]

You have things like this happening 

Source: https://keyt.com/news/national-world/2020/06/06/video-shows-a-woman-being-body-slammed-by-an-atlanta-police-officer-as-she-was-arrested/

 

I know how much a clavicle can hurt when something is out of place, I can only imagine how much worse it is when it's broken.

 

Then you had things like this

Source: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/dc-mayor-unveils-black-lives-matter-painted-streets/story?id=71088808

 

Where the Washington, D.C. Mayor  had Black Lives Matter painted in big bold yellow letters and renamed the area Black Lives Matter Plaza where Trump had peaceful protesters tear-gassed.

 

The cops who resigned from the unit to stand with the suspended cops who shoved an elderly man to the ground. Many are saying that is a good thing that we don't need or want them in the force but they didn't resign as police officers. Someone needs to fire them all since they clearly will become a problem later if they are allowed to remain cops. People who can find a reason to justify such behavior would only be a detriment to the reforms needed to happen in our country/police force.

 

Many are now banning the use of choke holds,  that tear gas can only be deployed with authorization, calling for officers who turn off their body cams to be immediately fired, and many other issues are being put under a microscope. 

 

I hope some real change is coming out of this. In the age of internet and cell phones with cameras, No longer will these types of actions be ignored. Not just some will see, not just Americans will see, but you will be exposed for who you really are to the Whole Freaking World. The whole world will rise up in protest. As we have seen in the fact there are protests over this all over the world. And we are saying that we reject this, we reject you and your disgusting behaviors, we reject your brutality, we reject your unlawful killings. No longer can we stand for our brothers and sisters to be treated in such a way. No longer will we be blinded to your actions. in this case justice isn't blind and we are saying we SEE you, and we won't tolerate it any longer. The inequalities inherent in our justice/legal/law enforcement and other systems  need to be made to change for the better. Cause when you sentence a Black man and a White man for the same exact crime but one gets off and the other one gets an excessive amount of time you give lie to the saying "Justice is Blind."

Edited June 6, 2020 by AngelsSin

[Lagie]

1 hour ago, olympe said:

I really, really wanted to visit the US after Covid has blown over. Right now, I'm rethinking that. Canada sounds quite lovely in comparison...

Canada is lovely in comparison. I'd strongly recommend staying out of the U.S. till well after the orange dude is gone.

[purplehaze]

1 hour ago, Lagie said:

Canada is lovely in comparison. I'd strongly recommend staying out of the U.S. till well after the orange dude is gone.

Wish I could!

[Astreya]

Somehow this world seems to be rotten to the core.

(Today 11 persons were arrested for horrendous acts of sexual violence against some boys aged 5 to 12 in Germany. The police speaker at the press conference was visibly shaken and utterly disgusted by the vile depravities.)

[purplehaze]

I see I was not the only one outraged by Trump's statement about George Floyd and the economy in his self-aggrandizing speech yesterday.

“Hopefully George is looking down right now and saying this a great thing that’s happening for our country,” he said. “There’s a great day for him. It’s a great day for everybody. It’s a great day for everybody. There’s a great, great day in terms of equality.”

Really? It's a great day for George Floyd? Just because the unemployment figures aren't as abysmal as we feared? Black unemployment was still moving upward, but I guess George isn't supposed to notice that because it doesn't fit Trumps delusion!

Trump has no right to use George Floyd's name to praise himself for doing such a great job. He has no right!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/05/trump-george-floyd-comments-economy-unemployment

[Astreya]

@purplehaze

One more proof that he is a sociopath - all is about him and there is no empathy whatsoever for others.

[purpledragonclaw]

5 hours ago, Astreya said:

Somehow this world seems to be rotten to the core.

(Today 11 persons were arrested for horrendous acts of sexual violence against some boys aged 5 to 12 in Germany. The police speaker at the press conference was visibly shaken and utterly disgusted by the vile depravities.)

 

I've realized this for a few years now. So many governments have been exposed as self-serving and not equipped to truly handle the needs of their populaces, or even act like they care. They would rather actively quell dissent rather than let the truth out. But the truth is coming out. And it's due. 

 

As for that part in parentheses, that is disgusting. I am glad that the police spokesperson actively addressed it with the horror it deserved. Too many times it's been swept under the rug (looking at you, Catholic church and Boy Scouts). Five Texas GOP county leaders decided to share their racism this week on social media, which has prompted calls for their resignations. How does that tie in to what you posted in parentheses? One of them has been suppressing her husband's sexual predations against children for years. Party of family values here.

 

5 hours ago, AngelsSin said:

The police responsible for shoving the elderly man who the fell to the ground were released with no bail, they pleaded not guilty. There was a crowd outside and when they were released there was clapping and cheering. I noticed no one of any color was among the crowd, they were all white. Just sick.

 

Notice the difference in reporting/perspective from Fox news as opposed to other news outlets.

Source: https://www.foxnews.com/us/buffalo-mayor-75-year-old-man-pushed-agitator

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/75-year-old-man-pushed-to-ground-by-buffalo-police-comes-from-a-peace-tradition/ar-BB156Cbn?li=BBnb7Kz

 

Also good news they found and arrested the man who assaulted a couple of teens putting up flyers for BLM.

Source: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/maryland-cyclist-arrested-assault-teens-apologizes-71108345

 

I wouldn't accept his apology. It has no sincerity, especially if you need to be arrested before you give one.

 

it lightens my heart to see just how many around the world are coming out in solidarity of this movement, the sheer numbers, give me hope.

 

 

One of the good things about so many cameras is police can't simply get away with lying anymore. Most of the time nothing happens to them anyway, but what it shows the world is how rotten the police are. The scary thing about that Buffalo PD incident? Look how many officers agreed that he "tripped and fell". That's systemic rot. Protect our own, no one else. Especially given one of them (I believe the one who pushed the elderly gentleman) tried to help him up and was pulled back by a fellow officer. They aren't here to protect and serve the citizens.

 

I'm glad they caught that biker! That mug shot is not a man who's remorseful. I wouldn't buy his apology either.

 

More good news: the man in Utah who drew his bow and arrow on protesters has been arrested. 

 

4 hours ago, purplehaze said:

I see I was not the only one outraged by Trump's statement about George Floyd and the economy in his self-aggrandizing speech yesterday.

 

 

Really? It's a great day for George Floyd? Just because the unemployment figures aren't as abysmal as we feared? Black unemployment was still moving upward, but I guess George isn't supposed to notice that because it doesn't fit Trumps delusion!

Trump has no right to use George Floyd's name to praise himself for doing such a great job. He has no right!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/05/trump-george-floyd-comments-economy-unemployment

 

Par for the course with Trump. Not surprised. Remember, he "gets along with the Blacks." Also, don't trust those unemployment numbers he's touting, they seem shady. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by purpledragonclaw

[Astreya]

@purpledragonclaw

The police speaker said during the press conference: "I'm not sure one can really call these persons "human" any more." I think this would apply to certain other people, too.

[AngelsSin]

I don't watch Fox News but I've been thinking on it for a while that I believe they use (probably heavily rely on it) subliminal messaging. It would explain why some are so willing to believe the b.s. they spit out.

When I went to school for drama classes they taught us about subliminal messaging. They used it when you go to the movies those ads for foods and drinks that they sell in the lobby. Those ads had subliminal messages. Ads on tv have them too. Think back/or pay attention to your reaction after you see an ad on tv, do you suddenly want what you just saw? It might be subliminal messaging. They also use it in the Movies and tv shows we watch. Most are unaware of just how much stuff like that is used in everything we see or hear/watch.

 

Also Trump's habit of repeating certain phrases is a part of Power Speaking which also works in the same way.

Some people are more susceptible to those sort of things.

I remember when me and my brother were watching Trump speaking before he was elected, now I know he didn't support Trump or believe what he was saying, but after watching for a bit he'd start agreeing with him and I'd call him out on it and he would correct himself and wonder how he was agreeing with him. Me, I'm resistant to that type of thing but others are much, much more susceptible to it. Then consider those who only watch Fox News, you wouldn't be far off to say they could be being brainwashed by prolonged and repeated exposure to subliminal messaging. While studies don't show a huge effect from subliminal messaging it's more momentary, not much is said on prolonged and repeated, daily exposure to it. It could have a much more insidious affect on people who aren't resistant to it, like me.

 

also people use it purposely all the time to change bad habits. Affirmation recordings, sleep tapes,etc used to change their thought pattern to lose weight or quit smoking,etc. So it can be used in a beneficial way.

 

Food for thought.

Source: https://zidbits.com/2011/07/how-do-subliminal-messages-work/

https://www.mindfithypnosis.com/what-are-subliminal-messages/

Edited June 7, 2020 by AngelsSin

[Astreya]

@AngelsSin

If you think that FOX News really uses subliminal messages (e.g. by adding frames) it would be really easy to find out - just record a program you find suspicious and then go through it frame by frame.  I severely doubt they do it that way, or people would definitely already caught them.

(Wasn't there a conspiracy theory that Barack Obama used such messages, too? AFAIK that claim didn't hold either.

 

Similarly this "power speak" - Maybe I'm just not susceptible for that, but I'm definitely not swayed by any of Mr.Trump's BS. On the other hand, he uses populist topics and formulas that ring fine for some people (hence the term "populist" as it is "popular" stuff).

 

[purplehaze]

Interesting @AngelsSin

@Astreya I was just reading this about the effectivemess of Trump's rambling speeches (at least to his base):

 

Quote

Trump’s style of speaking is conversational, and may even stem from his New York City upbringing. As George Lakoff, a linguist at UC Berkeley, told me, "[The] thing about being a New Yorker it is polite if you finish their sentences for them. It’s a natural part of conversation."
This may be why Trump’s sentences often seem, in transcript form, to trail off with no ending. "He knows his audience can finish his sentences for him," Lakoff says.
Watching Trump, it’s easy to see how this plays out. He makes vague implications with a raised eyebrow or a shrug, allowing his audience to reach their own conclusions. And that conversational style can be effective. It’s more intimate than a scripted speech. People walk away from Trump feeling as though he were casually talking to them, allowing them to finish his thoughts.
(...)
Many of Trump’s most famous catchphrases are actually versions of time-tested speech mechanisms that salesmen use. They’re powerful because they help shape our unconscious.
Take, for example, Trump’s frequent use of "Many people are saying..." or "Believe me" — often right after saying something that is baseless or untrue. This tends to sound more trustworthy to listeners than just outright stating the baseless claim, since Trump implies that he has direct experience with what he’s talking about. At a base level, Lakoff argues, people are more inclined to believe something that seems to have been shared.
Or when Trump keeps calling Clinton "crooked," or keeps referring to terrorists as "radical Muslims," he’s strengthening the association through repetition. He also calls his supporters "folks," to show he is one of them (though many politicians employ this trick). Trump doesn’t repeat phrases and adjectives because he is stalling for time, Liberman says; for the most part, he’s providing emphasis and strengthening the association.
(...)
"He has been doing this for a very long time as a salesman — that’s what he is best at," Lakoff says.
(...)
That said, his rise can’t be attributed purely to his speaking style. It certainly has a lot to do with what he is actually saying. "If the content were different, I think it would come across as rambling and flabby and ineffective," Liberman says.
In other words, when Trump’s audience finishes his sentences for him, the blanks are filled with sentiments that resonate: fears of joblessness, worries about the United States losing its status as a major world power, concerns about foreign terrorist organizations. Trump validates their insecurities and justifies their anger. He connects on an emotional level, Du Mez says.

"For listeners who identify with Trump, there is little they need to do but claim what they’re entitled to," she says. "No need for sacrifice, for compromise, for complexity. He taps into fear and insecurity, but then enables his audience to express that fear through anger. And anger gives the illusion of empowerment."

 

https://www.vox.com/2016/8/18/12423688/donald-trump-speech-style-explained-by-linguists

 

Here's another article of interest, which says -- in part:

Subjects under the influence of power ... acted as if they had suffered a traumatic brain injury—becoming more impulsive, less risk-aware, and, crucially, less adept at seeing things from other people’s point of view.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/power-causes-brain-damage/528711/

Remind you of anyone???

Edited June 7, 2020 by purplehaze

[Astreya]

@purplehaze

That's interesting. I guess that's why his style has zero effect on me - I may hear the English, but I have to internally translate it to German, and thus the input goes through an immediate fact check as the stuff I hear has to be transferred to German, and thus I have to take the input, then scrutinise it to find the correct equivalence, and thus each and every piece of BS becomes apparent right away.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Astreya

[AngelsSin]

42 minutes ago, Astreya said:

@AngelsSin

If you think that FOX News really uses subliminal messages (e.g. by adding frames) it would be really easy to find out - just record a program you find suspicious and then go through it frame by frame.  I severely doubt they do it that way, or people would definitely already caught them.

(Wasn't there a conspiracy theory that Barack Obama used such messages, too? AFAIK that claim didn't hold either.

 

Similarly this "power speak" - Maybe I'm just not susceptible for that, but I'm definitely not swayed by any of Mr.Trump's BS. On the other hand, he uses populist topics and formulas that ring fine for some people (hence the term "populist" as it is "popular" stuff).

 

 

 I'm not good with that type of thing or I would. And it's not so easy to see what is meant to be subliminal or not.

And frankly Obama doesn't strike me as the type of person to do so, on the other hand Fox News definitely strikes me as the type to do so.  That's just my opinion. And just because one wasn't true doesn't mean the other is untrue as well.  

 

It could be as simple as the line scrolling across the screen with news (I use that term lightly in reference to their station) while someone is talking it goes by really fast and the subconscious mind picks it up so you don't realize it's affect on you. Or barely Audible noise in the background that your brain picks up but you don't pay attention cause your focusing on what the news anchor or the main person speaking is saying. I've noticed they have lots of visual backgrounds on their shows any of those things could contain subliminal messaging and to notice it you would have to even be aware to look for it and most people don't.

 

How many people noticed ads for real life things in the Movies you watch? Do you look for things your not aware of? I don't notice a lot of the Easter eggs in the Movies and TV shows I watch even knowing they are put in them, and I'm aware that they do it. So how can anyone expect someone to who doesn't even know what subliminal messaging is, or that it is used in everything.

 

Also you would probably need to be an expert to know how to distinguish what is subliminal messaging or not, and I'm no expert on it.

Edited June 7, 2020 by AngelsSin

[olympe]

13 minutes ago, Astreya said:

@purplehaze

That's interesting. I guess that's why his style has zero effect on me - I may hear the English, but I have to internally translate it to German, and thus the input goes through an immediate fact check as the stuff I hear has to be transferred to German, and thus I have to take the input, then scrutinise it to find the correct equivalence, and thus each and every piece of BS becomes apparent right away.

I don't think it works on me, either. But I grew up in a household where every single thing could be criticized, so I probably learned to do that automatically. (I know I often come across as someone who criticizes a lot, unless I reign it in.)

[Astreya]

What do you expect when you get stuff like this:

Quote

As protests over the police killing of George Floyd continue across the US, a slew of influential rightwing figures have been urging an ever more violent crackdown on the demonstrations – and it appears Donald Trump is listening.

 

Republican politicians, media personalities and rightwing activists have floated ideas including deploying specific units of the military, while one Republican candidate for Congress has even suggested she will shoot protesters.

With a president who has previously formulated policy based on what is being mooted on conservative Fox News or among the rightwing Twitter-sphere, the consequences of this lobbying for violence could be severe.

(...)

As the protests spread to cities across the country, the tough talk, largely from people paid to sit at desks, came thick and fast.

 

“Now that we clearly see antifa as terrorists, can we hunt them down like we do those in the Middle East?,” tweeted Matt Gaetz, a Florida congressman who has built a political career through his fealty to Trump. Gaetz’s post was blocked by Twitter, who deemed it to be “glorifying violence”.

 

In Georgia, Republican congressional candidate Marjorie Greene filmed a campaign advertisement which showed her standing outside a house holding what appeared to be a semi-automatic rifle.

 

“I have a message for antifa terrorists,” Greene said in the ad. She then cocked the gun and added: “Stay the hell out of north-west Georgia.”

 

Texan congressman Dan Crenshaw – another Trump favorite – joined the clamor for states to use the national guard on Tuesday, when he tweeted that New York City, where looting took place in some parts of the Bronx and midtown Manhattan earlier in the week “is in ruins”. 

 

At times it has seemed as if the right were straining to one-up each other. On the social media platform Gab, Jacob Wohl, a pro-Trump activist and conspiracy theorist who has gained a following among conservatives, suggested mercenaries should be sent to deal with protesters and also proposed that the military should be send into cities and given “shoot-to-kill orders”.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/trump-protests-notes-far-right-crackdown-peaceful-protesters

Edited June 8, 2020 by Astreya