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1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

May I commend to your attention a terrifying book from way back when: Sinclair Lewis: It Can't Happen Here.

 

But it can. And it is. And not just in the States.

 

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

About 1.5 years ago, I met the best of my politics and history teachers. She was on her deathbed, and said very clearly that she's glad she doesn't have to see what's going to happen with the whole Trump (and, let's name it, other fascists) in power, not to mention what is going to happen with Germany and the AfD (nazi party reborn). So much for that.

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By the way, when looking at the current carnage in the US, I was reminded about the inaugural speech of Mr.Trump. Now he's 3 years into his presidency, and one can only say "Well done, Mr.Trump" (that's meant ironically, by the way). Bolding is by mew.

 

Quote

Chief Justice Roberts, President Carter, President Clinton, President Bush, President Obama, fellow Americans, and people of the world: thank you.

We, the citizens of America, are now joined in a great national effort to rebuild our country and to restore its promise for all of our people.

Together, we will determine the course of America and the world for years to come.

We will face challenges. We will confront hardships. But we will get the job done.

 

Every four years, we gather on these steps to carry out the orderly and peaceful transfer of power, and we are grateful to President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama for their gracious aid throughout this transition. They have been magnificent.

Today’s ceremony, however, has very special meaning. Because today we are not merely transferring power from one Administration to another, or from one party to another – but we are transferring power from Washington, D.C. and giving it back to you, the American People.

 

For too long, a small group in our nation’s Capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost.

Washington flourished – but the people did not share in its wealth.

Politicians prospered – but the jobs left, and the factories closed.

The establishment protected itself, but not the citizens of our country.

Their victories have not been your victories; their triumphs have not been your triumphs; and while they celebrated in our nation’s Capital, there was little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land.

That all changes – starting right here, and right now, because this moment is your moment: it belongs to you.

It belongs to everyone gathered here today and everyone watching all across America.

This is your day. This is your celebration.

And this, the United States of America, is your country.

 

What truly matters is not which party controls our government, but whether our government is controlled by the people.

January 20th 2017, will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again.

The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer.

Everyone is listening to you now.

 

You came by the tens of millions to become part of a historic movement the likes of which the world has never seen before.

At the center of this movement is a crucial conviction: that a nation exists to serve its citizens.

Americans want great schools for their children, safe neighborhoods for their families, and good jobs for themselves.

These are the just and reasonable demands of a righteous public.

 

But for too many of our citizens, a different reality exists: Mothers and children trapped in poverty in our inner cities; rusted-out factories scattered like tombstones across the landscape of our nation; an education system, flush with cash, but which leaves our young and beautiful students deprived of knowledge; and the crime and gangs and drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential.

This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.

 

We are one nation – and their pain is our pain. Their dreams are our dreams; and their success will be our success. We share one heart, one home, and one glorious destiny.

The oath of office I take today is an oath of allegiance to all Americans.

 

For many decades, we’ve enriched foreign industry at the expense of American industry;

Subsidized the armies of other countries while allowing for the very sad depletion of our military;

We’ve defended other nation’s borders while refusing to defend our own;

And spent trillions of dollars overseas while America’s infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay.

We’ve made other countries rich while the wealth, strength, and confidence of our country has disappeared over the horizon.

One by one, the factories shuttered and left our shores, with not even a thought about the millions upon millions of American workers left behind.

The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed across the entire world.

But that is the past. And now we are looking only to the future.

 

We assembled here today are issuing a new decree to be heard in every city, in every foreign capital, and in every hall of power.

From this day forward, a new vision will govern our land.

From this moment on, it’s going to be America First.

 

Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs, will be made to benefit American workers and American families.

We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries making our products, stealing our companies, and destroying our jobs. Protection will lead to great prosperity and strength.

I will fight for you with every breath in my body – and I will never, ever let you down.

 

America will start winning again, winning like never before.

We will bring back our jobs. We will bring back our borders. We will bring back our wealth. And we will bring back our dreams.

We will build new roads, and highways, and bridges, and airports, and tunnels, and railways all across our wonderful nation.

We will get our people off of welfare and back to work – rebuilding our country with American hands and American labor.

We will follow two simple rules: Buy American and Hire American.

 

We will seek friendship and goodwill with the nations of the world – but we do so with the understanding that it is the right of all nations to put their own interests first.

We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone, but rather to let it shine as an example for everyone to follow.

We will reinforce old alliances and form new ones – and unite the civilized world against Radical Islamic Terrorism, which we will eradicate completely from the face of the Earth.

At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America, and through our loyalty to our country, we will rediscover our loyalty to each other.

When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.

The Bible tells us, “how good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity.”

 

We must speak our minds openly, debate our disagreements honestly, but always pursue solidarity.

When America is united, America is totally unstoppable.

There should be no fear – we are protected, and we will always be protected.

We will be protected by the great men and women of our military and law enforcement and, most importantly, we are protected by God.

Finally, we must think big and dream even bigger.

In America, we understand that a nation is only living as long as it is striving.

 

We will no longer accept politicians who are all talk and no action – constantly complaining but never doing anything about it.

The time for empty talk is over.

Now arrives the hour of action.

 

Do not let anyone tell you it cannot be done. No challenge can match the heart and fight and spirit of America.

We will not fail. Our country will thrive and prosper again.

We stand at the birth of a new millennium, ready to unlock the mysteries of space, to free the Earth from the miseries of disease, and to harness the energies, industries and technologies of tomorrow.

 

A new national pride will stir our souls, lift our sights, and heal our divisions.

It is time to remember that old wisdom our soldiers will never forget: that whether we are black or brown or white, we all bleed the same red blood of patriots, we all enjoy the same glorious freedoms, and we all salute the same great American Flag.

 

And whether a child is born in the urban sprawl of Detroit or the windswept plains of Nebraska, they look up at the same night sky, they fill their heart with the same dreams, and they are infused with the breath of life by the same almighty Creator.

So to all Americans, in every city near and far, small and large, from mountain to mountain, and from ocean to ocean, hear these words:

You will never be ignored again.

 

Your voice, your hopes, and your dreams, will define our American destiny. And your courage and goodness and love will forever guide us along the way.

Together, We Will Make America Strong Again.

We Will Make America Wealthy Again.

We Will Make America Proud Again.

We Will Make America Safe Again.

And, Yes, Together, We Will Make America Great Again. Thank you, God Bless You, And God Bless America.

Source: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/the-inaugural-address/

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Wow, that speech is just so wrong on so many counts. :( Although I don't always see eye to eye with you with what you bolded. 

we are transferring power from Washington, D.C. and giving it back to you, the American People.

Yeah, as long as it suits the guy in power. Liberate Michigan (and two other states) - and he rallies the people to try and force state governments to do as he wants without him having to enforce it. But when there are riots against police officers killing without any reason, he intends to shoot them.

 

Washington flourished – but the people did not share in its wealth.

Politicians prospered – but the jobs left, and the factories closed.

The establishment protected itself, but not the citizens of our country.

I don't see how that has changed. Not at all.

 

For many decades, we’ve enriched foreign industry at the expense of American industry;

Ah, so that's why he's going on about demolishing all trading treaties, enforcing random import taxes and so on. Got it.

 

Subsidized the armies of other countries while allowing for the very sad depletion of our military;

Not really. Just meddled everywhere, sent out their armies and demanded their allies join them in their endeavours.

 

We’ve defended other nation’s borders while refusing to defend our own;

They... have? Where? When?

Also re "refusing to defend their own [borders]" - the last time said borders were breached was Pearl Harbor, wasn't it? And didn't Japan get bombed out of two major cities in retaliation? Hiroshima and Nagasaki, ring any bells?

 

And spent trillions of dollars overseas while America’s infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay.



We’ve made other countries rich while the wealth, strength, and confidence of our country has disappeared over the horizon.

Uhm. It certainly explains WHY Trump decided to stop funding the WHO - apart from the obvious (namely looking for a scapegoat). It also means that, should he actually be re-elected, he'll probably stop funding more joint efforts. On the plus side, he didn't do much with his military, which I think is a good thing.

 

I will fight for you with every breath in my body – and I will never, ever let you down.

 g024.gif  d017.gif c041.gif

 

We will reinforce old alliances and form new ones – and unite the civilized world against Radical Islamic Terrorism, which we will eradicate completely from the face of the Earth.

He pretty much bombarded all old alliances, the US of A are pretty much isolated by now. 

 

When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.

I'd say it's the other way around: When you open your heart to patriotism, there's no room for anything but prejudice.

 

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Posted (edited)

@olympe

Quote

I don't see how that has changed. Not at all.

Exactly that is the point.

 

Other than that I think the really stupid idea is that it "makes America great" to get out of every multinational organisation. After all, this only means ceding influence to others who then step into that power vacuum.

 

Here's another interesting article:

Quote

'He is a destroyer': how the George Floyd protests left Donald Trump exposed

“He is obviously in way over his head,” said LaTosha Brown, a civil rights activist and co-founder of Black Voters Matter.

 

“He doesn’t have a clue. He’s a TV personality. He has a cult following that’s centred around this white power broker persona rooted in white supremacy and racism. Wherever he goes, he carries that role and that kind of persona, but ultimately right now with what we’re looking for in this country is real leadership. He is incapable of providing that because that’s not who he is.”

 

Brown added: “He’s a personality. He’s used to these dog whistles and, instead of trying to uproot division and seeing that the citizens are actually in pain and hurting, he doesn’t have the capacity to address that. He actually adds fuel to the flames and shows how fundamentally intellectually disconnected he is from what is happening and also how ill-prepared he is as a leader to respond to that.”

 

Trump is not so much a child playing with matches as an arsonist hellbent on burning it all down, Brown warned.

“If it would take the destruction of the country for him to protect his position, he is willing to do that. He has shown that he is willing to kill every single thing in this country, including its people, if it protects him.

“He’s willing to kill democracy. He is willing to kill any sense of real respect or trust in his government. He is willing to kill America’s international and global relationships. He is a destroyer.”

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/01/george-floyd-donald-trump-black-lives-matter

 

Edited by Astreya

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It hurts my heart to see what is going on in the streets of our country today.

Frustrated, angry people trying to get someone to listen that all this police on black violence must stop.

And Trump responds by urging the governors to "dominate" the protesters, and is bringing in the active military to Washington, DC. We are at war with our own people, now? Frightening.

I read a very moving reflection by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar from the LA Times.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-05-30/dont-understand-the-protests-what-youre-seeing-is-people-pushed-to-the-edge

He says in part:



What was your first reaction when you saw the video of the white cop kneeling on George Floyd’s neck while Floyd croaked, “I can’t breathe”?

If you’re white, you probably muttered a horrified, “Oh, my God” while shaking your head at the cruel injustice. If you’re black, you probably leapt to your feet, cursed, maybe threw something (certainly wanted to throw something), while shouting, “Not @#$%! again!” Then you remember the two white vigilantes accused of murdering Ahmaud Arbery as he jogged through their neighborhood in February, and how if it wasn’t for that video emerging a few weeks ago, they would have gotten away with it. And how those Minneapolis cops claimed Floyd was resisting arrest but a store’s video showed he wasn’t. And how the cop on Floyd’s neck wasn’t an enraged redneck stereotype, but a sworn officer who looked calm and entitled and devoid of pity: the banality of evil incarnate.

<snip>

What do you see when you see angry black protesters amassing outside police stations with raised fists? If you’re white, you may be thinking, “They certainly aren’t social distancing.” Then you notice the black faces looting Target and you think, “Well, that just hurts their cause.” Then you see the police station on fire and you wag a finger saying, “That’s putting the cause backward.”

You’re not wrong — but you’re not right, either. The black community is used to the institutional racism inherent in education, the justice system and jobs. And even though we do all the conventional things to raise public and political awareness — write articulate and insightful pieces in the Atlantic, explain the continued devastation on CNN, support candidates who promise change — the needle hardly budges.

But COVID-19 has been slamming the consequences of all that home as we die at a significantly higher rate than whites, are the first to lose our jobs, and watch helplessly as Republicans try to keep us from voting. Just as the slimy underbelly of institutional racism is being exposed, it feels like hunting season is open on blacks. If there was any doubt, President Trump’s recent tweets confirm the national zeitgeist as he calls protesters “thugs” and looters fair game to be shot.

Yes, protests often are used as an excuse for some to take advantage, just as when fans celebrating a hometown sports team championship burn cars and destroy storefronts. I don’t want to see stores looted or even buildings burn. But African Americans have been living in a burning building for many years, choking on the smoke as the flames burn closer and closer. Racism in America is like dust in the air. It seems invisible — even if you’re choking on it — until you let the sun in. Then you see it’s everywhere. As long as we keep shining that light, we have a chance of cleaning it wherever it lands. But we have to stay vigilant, because it’s always still in the air.

So, maybe the black community’s main concern right now isn’t whether protesters are standing three or six feet apart or whether a few desperate souls steal some T-shirts or even set a police station on fire, but whether their sons, husbands, brothers and fathers will be murdered by cops or wannabe cops just for going on a walk, a jog, a drive. Or whether being black means sheltering at home for the rest of their lives because the racism virus infecting the country is more deadly than COVID-19.

What you should see when you see black protesters in the age of Trump and coronavirus is people pushed to the edge, not because they want bars and nail salons open, but because they want to live. To breathe.

Worst of all, is that we are expected to justify our outraged behavior every time the cauldron bubbles over.

<snip>

So what you see when you see black protesters depends on whether you’re living in that burning building or watching it on TV with a bowl of corn chips in your lap waiting for “NCIS” to start.

What I want to see is not a rush to judgment, but a rush to justice.

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Posted (edited)

I hate admit it but racism is extremely hard to stamp out just look at the long history of the Jews. As a people we've been persecuted for thousands of years. We been slaves, we have been discriminated against and they tried to wipe us out in WWII. And the world was slow to care, to respond, to do anything to stop it. And if you think it ended with WWII  then you haven't been paying attention.

 

It's why we need to be very careful who gets elected to run not just the U.S. but every Democratic country. Can you imagine what would have happened if those in power during WWII never stepped up.

 

It's why we can't let what happened this time and every time injustice happens continue. Cause it might not just be several hundred years that blacks suffer but could end up like the Jews, lasting for thousands of years without end.

 

The good thing is injustice can be exposed much easier than throughout most of the history of the Jews. The mixed blessings of the internet. And a lot of us won't tolerate others being unfairly treated or unjustly killed.

 

Also while I agree with most of what Kareem Abdul-Jabbar said I don't like what he said about how White people react to Black injustice. I don't jump up and shout, curse and throw things not cause it's another Black person who was killed but cause that's not part of my personality. I don't react like that for a Jew being killed anymore than for a Black person and I'm Jewish. My response is not muted because I don't react in that way. I feel just as strongly regardless of the color of the victim. When I see looters and those damaging stores,etc I don't think - well that hurts their cause- I think, I see people in So much pain they are lashing out. 

I do think that labeling White people's reaction in such a way can diminish the message. Not for me but some might have a stronger reaction to such labeling.

Edited by AngelsSin

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Posted (edited)

In the midst of all of this, peaceful protesters were violently dispersed with tear gas, rubber bullets, and flash grenades in D.C. so Trump could have his photo-op in front of a church, holding up a Bible that was "a Bible", but not necessarily "his Bible". I guess even Trump doesn't have the guts to lie while holding a Bible in front of a church. Apparently he didn't like the news over the weekend of him hiding in a bunker yesterday, so he decided to do this today. He also called the protests a crime against God while threatening to deploy the military to quell the protests. 

 

The beginning of that photo-op is even better with audio.

 

I've read that people want him to address the nation, make a statement, but honestly I don't want him to. I don't want to see his lip service just to generate some positive PR. He's not a man who unifies, he's a man who destroys (thanks for the article @purplehaze!) I saw how he handled Charlottesville, I'm perfectly fine with him staying silent now. A dark White House is a perfect metaphor for the political leadership in this country right now.

 

@AngelsSin you can't address racism if you don't acknowledge it in the first place, and this country does not want to address it. 

Edited by purpledragonclaw

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Posted (edited)

57 minutes ago, purpledragonclaw said:

 

@AngelsSin you can't address racism if you don't acknowledge it in the first place, and this country does not want to address it. 

 

I don't agree that this country doesn't want to address it. Or that we don't acknowledge it. Who exactly doesn't want to address it? The Blacks who suffer from racism? The Whites and people of other nationalities who are out protesting besides them? The cops who choose to march along side the protesters cause they don't agree with what several of their own did who are responsible for George Floyd's murder? And countless others? The Governors who are supporting the rights of the protesters? Who also don't want Trump to bring the military in, turning the military on people justifiably angered? We want this to be addressed and acknowledged and solved. 

 

That's why I said it's important about who we elect because that can effect how change gets made or if it gets made. And too many of those who have been elected prevent those changes being made. Yes we still have too many in this country who act with impunity and racism in their hearts and actions, but there will always be those who refuse to let that stand.

Also as noted with the Jews you can acknowledge and address the issue and still never solve it. And obviously I want and hope that will change. For all people to be equal and to be treated as such.  

 

It's too bad Trump doesn't go by that saying " if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" you'd hear crickets chirp.

 

someone needs to sew his mouth shut.

Edited by AngelsSin

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Posted (edited)

That photo-op video is really kind of funny -- if it weren't so disgusting! And his holding up a Bible ... means what? I doubt he ever read a word of it, let alone believes anything it says and certainly doesn't live by it. What was even the point of that, unless it was meant to impress his evangelical friends.

His address was appalling.Not the unifying, calming kind of message that might have helped. But then we never expected that from Donald Trump. I agree, PDC, that I never wanted to see him address the nation. It could never end well. But at least he didn't even try to pay lip service to peace and justice and unity. Once again, it was all about him, our "law and order" President.

Edited by purplehaze

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@purplehaze

I guess Mr.Trump mainly knows this part of the Bible: "God said: "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it"

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29 minutes ago, AngelsSin said:

 

I don't agree that this country doesn't want to address it. Or that we don't acknowledge it. Who exactly doesn't want to address it? The Blacks who suffer from racism? The Whites and people of other nationalities who are out protesting besides them? The cops who choose to march along side the protesters cause they don't agree with what several of their own did who are responsible for George Floyd's murder? And countless others? The Governors who are supporting the rights of the protesters? Who also don't want Trump to bring the military in, turning the military on people justifiably angered? We want this to be addressed and acknowledged and solved. That's why I said it's important about who we elect because that can effect how change gets made or if it gets made. And too many of those who have been elected prevent those changes being made. Yes we still have too many in this country who act with impunity and racism in their hearts and actions, but there will always be those who refuse to let that stand.

Also as noted with the Jews you can acknowledge and address the issue and still never solve it. And obviously I want and hope that will change. For all people to be equal and to be treated as such.  

 

Many who hold power in this country don't want to address it. Many politicians, many elected officials, many members of the police. You're right, a good portion of this country does want to address this. A better phrasing would be that many that occupy the power structure in this country don't want to address it (and let's face it, a good amount of citizens don't either). The cops who choose to march alongside protesters are greatly outnumbered by the cops turning these protests violent by firing tear gas and rubber bullets on journalists and peaceful protesters. By the police unions who want to keep the status quo. By the thundering silence of many politicians on this whole front. They want things to continue as they are.  

 

The citizenry you pointed out does want to address this. Those peacefully protesting do want to address this. Those working to bail out protesters and fight for equality through organized movements do want to address this. I hope to see lasting change from this rather than the nothing we've seen as a result of the police murder of citizens.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, purpledragonclaw said:

 

Many who hold power in this country don't want to address it. Many politicians, many elected officials, many members of the police. You're right, a good portion of this country does want to address this. A better phrasing would be that many that occupy the power structure in this country don't want to address it (and let's face it, a good amount of citizens don't either). The cops who choose to march alongside protesters are greatly outnumbered by the cops turning these protests violent by firing tear gas and rubber bullets on journalists and peaceful protesters. By the police unions who want to keep the status quo. By the thundering silence of many politicians on this whole front. They want things to continue as they are.  

 

 

The one good thing about Trump being elected(I say that very loosely) is he has exposed just how much racism is still in our country. We all knew it still existed but not how many still hold to those thoughts and beliefs.

 

*sigh* I've got the idea of Trump's mouth being sewn shut in my head. Anyone know where I can find an image of an angel sewing Trump's mouth shut? I have need to have one now. Even better would be if in the background he is in front of a Church holding a bible while shouting for the cops to " remove the peaceful Thugs... I mean protesters" in a bubble above his head with his orders being carried out with other angels looking on in horror and while another angel is sewing his mouth shut. That would be perfect. The places my head/thoughts go when I can't sleep. 🙃

Edited by AngelsSin

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1 hour ago, AngelsSin said:

The one good thing about Trump being elected(I say that very loosely) is he has exposed just how much racism is still in our country. We all knew it still existed but not how many still hold to those thoughts and beliefs.


It is sad that the day he was elected, people was afraid to go out due to what was happening. The amount of racism, misogyny and just pure hate that erupted was insane. It spoke volumes to me of how mature America is as a whole. At this point, I am just pretty much waiting for it to burn down and for something new, hopefully better to grow from it. Sadly, that is just a dream and will never happen. I honestly believe if Trump does not get re-elected, there will be a civil war start. It's felt like that for years but it's getting more and more intense over the last few years.

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5 hours ago, demonicvampiregirl said:

 I honestly believe if Trump does not get re-elected, there will be a civil war start. It's felt like that for years but it's getting more and more intense over the last few years.

Sadly I share that fear. He is setting us up for that now. And he is quite good at whipping his followers into a frenzy. His rallies have been frightening to watch.

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Posted (edited)

Here's another scathing article about Mr.Trump's handling of the US presidency:

Quote

Trump has reached the 'mad emperor' stage, and it's terrifying to behold  - He incites violence from the safety of a bunker, then orders peaceful people tear-gassed for the sake of a surreal photo op

 

Donald Trump walked out of the White House, where he’d been hiding in a bunker. Military police had just fired teargas and flash grenades at peaceful protesters to clear his path, so that he could wave a bible in front of a boarded church. 

For Trump, the time is always ripe to throw kerosene on his own dumpster fire. 

 

In the week since George Floyd was killed by Minneapolis police officers, Trump has watched and tweeted helplessly as the nation he pretends to lead has reached its breaking point. After decades of supposedly legal police beatings and murders, the protests have swept America’s cities more quickly than even coronavirus. 

(...)

Trump was sued for incitement to riot by three protesters who were assaulted as they left one of his rallies in Kentucky. The case ultimately failed, but only after a judge ruled that Trump recklessly incited violence against an African-American woman by a crowd that included known members of hate groups. 

 

So when he stood, as president, and told a crowd of police officers to be violent with arrested citizens, it wasn’t some weird joke or misstatement, no matter what his aides claimed afterwards. “When you see these thugs being thrown into the back of a paddy wagon, you just see ’em thrown in, rough, I said, ‘Please don’t be too nice.’ 

(...)

Trump can no more end today’s violence than he can manage a pandemic that has killed more than 100,000 Americans, or create the jobs that will rescue more than 40 million unemployed. 

 

Faced with a three-fold crisis of racial, health and economic disasters, we have a three-year-old in the Oval Office. 

Our get-tough president started his day by telling the nation’s governors that the world was laughing at them – a recurring nightmare that he loves to project onto everyone else. 

 

“You have to dominate or you’ll look like a bunch of jerks,” he declared, speaking as something of a world-class jerk. “You have to arrest and try people,” he said of the protesters that he called “terrorists”.

 

One of the Democratic governor-jerks decided to draw the line at Trump’s rhetoric. “I need to say that people are feeling real pain out there and we’ve got to have national leadership in calling for calm and making sure that we’re addressing the concerns of the legitimate peaceful protesters,” said JB Pritzker of Illinois, during a conference call between the president and state governors. “That will help us to bring order.” 

 

“OK well thank you very much, JB,” our infant-in-chief reportedly responded. “I don’t like your rhetoric much either because I watched it with respect to the coronavirus, and I don’t like your rhetoric much either. I think you could’ve done a much better job, frankly.”

Full story: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/02/weve-reached-the-mad-emperor-stage-and-its-terrifying-to-behold

 

------------------------

And another one:

 

Quote

'Words of a dictator': Trump's threat to deploy military raises spectre of fascism - The president suggested the US could use troops against Americans – true to the instincts of a man surrounded by sycophants

 

“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross,” goes an oft-quoted line of uncertain origin.

 

On Monday evening, Donald Trump, with four US flags behind him, threatened to send in the military against the American people, then crossed the road to pose for a photo outside a historic church while clutching an upside-down Bible.

 

He was only able to get there after heavily armed police and horse-mounted national guardsmen fired teargas and rubber bullets to chase away peaceful protesters and journalists.

 

The shocking split-screen moment probably left millions of Americans shaken, frightened and outraged. Comparisons to dictators, fashionable during Trump’s political ascent, have fallen out of favour in recent years. Now they might be in for a comeback. Certainly top Democrats did not hold back.

 

Ron Wyden, a Democratic senator for Oregon, tweeted: “The fascist speech Donald Trump just delivered verged on a declaration of war against American citizens. I fear for our country tonight and will not stop defending America against Trump’s assault.”

 

Kamala Harris, a Democratic senator for California, told the MSNBC network: “These are not the words of a president. They are the words of a dictator.”

Full story: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/02/donald-trump-george-floyd-protests-military-threat

 

Edited by Astreya

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292053399_hug1.jpg.a4470468fdeef616013c703c021250e0.jpg to all the worried Americans here.292053399_hug1.jpg.a4470468fdeef616013c703c021250e0.jpg

 

And I'm under no illusion that this isn't going to spread.

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Posted (edited)

I agree. I have felt as well that civil war is brewing in the U.S. and I'm under no illusion that if that happens that it won't spill over to the rest of the world triggering WWIII.

The whole world is unstable right now not just this country and the world usually looks to the U.S. for leadership and guidance. It won't take much to set it all off right now. It's a scary time to be alive for us all, IMO.

 

Also I think civil war would happen if he gets elected as well as if he doesn't. I mean who could tolerate another 4 years of this madness?

 

I grew up in Miami and we have a diverse population, a large portion are African American. I appear White, but I consider myself a mutt as I have many different ethnicities in my background. While I take more after my German Irish roots, my Grandma was born in Africa and while not black would not be surprised if I have some Black ancestry in my DNA. Her parents came from Spain. So I am Hispanic as well. I am Jewish which technically means I am of Middle Eastern descent as well. And like some of my family I can get very dark skinned when I get a lot of sun. I am DAMN PROUD of my diversity. I would be thrilled if I found out I carried all ethnicities within me.

I believe everyone should have a mandatory Ancestry DNA test! I wonder how much racism would be able to stand up to finding out their part of the people they discriminate against. I know even knowing something like that won't always change the minds of those who clings to the idea they are superior to others but it might put a dent in it.

 

I was bussed in to an all Black school I went to for Drama. I felt more at home there than at a primarily White school with those privileged kids. 

With a large population of Blacks it's hard to see the racism that exists, it isn't always as noticeable even when surrounded by them. But my first real experience with racism towards them came while I was going to school there and it came from my own mom. I was at an after school event and was in the auditorium with my friend we were talking to a couple of black boys just talking. My mom had picked me up and when we got home started screaming at me that she never wanted to see me dating a Black guy. I was confused, horrified, disgusted by her reaction. While there was nothing going on in that situation, I was shocked at her attitude. I see people, not their skin color or anything else, I have always just seen people and didn't understand why she was acting in such a way.

I always had a very diverse group of friends, and am glad I didn't experience that sort of attitude during my more formative years, as well as that I was always a bit strong willed and independent minded and to me it's just common sense, people are people regardless of what I see as minor differences, I think those differences is what makes the world a better place. It is a shame not everyone sees it that way. So I'd like to believe that even if I had grown up with that attitude shown to me I still would have found it to be deeply troubling/horrifying/disgusting and would have been dismayed by such a display of racism from my own family. 

 

Also if your wondering how I could miss racism around me understand that at this point the internet wasn't a thing just yet. Channels on tv were limited. And I was barely a teen yet and rarely watched the news or was allowed to watch the news, so I just didn't have a lot of contact with that sort of attitude.

 

I should also mention that my first experience with anti-Semitism was also at that school a Black boy at the school drew a swastika on the chalkboard and the teacher had to educate him that just because the Nazi's targeted Jews didn't mean they liked Blacks any better. I'm sure if they hadn't been stopped, once they finished with the Jews, they likely would then have targeted Blacks and then moved on to Hispanics and anyone else not seen as their perfect race of Whites.

 

And racism/anti-Semitism in any form is not right no matter who it comes from or for whatever reason. I honestly had hoped humanity as a whole could have moved past this stupidity. But I worry that won't ever happen not completely. You can't force people to think/feel differently than they do. But you can make it illegal for them to act on those thoughts and beliefs. And those laws that develop to help solve those problems need to be enforced for everyone, just because you have money and power doesn't mean you should be exempt from those rules/laws. And that is a huge part of the problem with America.

America forgets it was never actually White. You have Native Americans who were here first, you have the Spanish, and many others who came here all in the same time frame and for the reason of avoiding persecution in their homelands for not being enough like them. Our country fought for our freedom from the tyranny of the Old Worlds. So we could be free to be ourselves without oppression. WTF  America. I get that we were never perfect we've always been flawed how could we not be when we are partially founded on slavery. But we should have progressed more than this.

Edited by AngelsSin

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@AngelsSin

I think it is very reassuring to hear rational US American voices. From my location on the other side of the great pond, I observe the happenings in the US with great concern.

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11 hours ago, demonicvampiregirl said:


It is sad that the day he was elected, people was afraid to go out due to what was happening. The amount of racism, misogyny and just pure hate that erupted was insane. It spoke volumes to me of how mature America is as a whole. At this point, I am just pretty much waiting for it to burn down and for something new, hopefully better to grow from it. Sadly, that is just a dream and will never happen. I honestly believe if Trump does not get re-elected, there will be a civil war start. It's felt like that for years but it's getting more and more intense over the last few years.

 

This racism and hatred has always been here, Trump just emboldened them to come off the internet, take off their masks, and strut it proudly. These are people who would rather see statues of war criminals on the losing side of the Civil War remain up while vilifying those fighting for equal rights. People who celebrate treason and owning humans as property. Because in the end, that's what the Civil War was fought over: the right to own Blacks as property. 

 

This time, it may just burn down. I know people who lived through the 1960s and 1970s that say they've never experienced anything like this. 

 

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

And I'm under no illusion that this isn't going to spread.

 

I've been following the situation with coronavirus in the U.K. and say right now that what's happening here could happen there too. A different catalyst could set it off, but BoJo is not a leader and that illusion is wearing off fast. I hope the U.K. takes what's happening here as a cautionary tale, which is something we didn't do with Brexit before the 2016 election.

 

3 hours ago, AngelsSin said:

I agree. I have felt as well that civil war is brewing in the U.S. and I'm under no illusion that if that happens that it won't spill over to the rest of the world triggering WWIII.

The whole world is unstable right now not just this country and the world usually looks to the U.S. for leadership and guidance. It won't take much to set it all off right now. It's a scary time to be alive for us all, IMO.

 

Also I think civil war would happen if he gets elected as well as if he doesn't. I mean who could tolerate another 4 years of this madness?

 

[snip]

 

I should also mention that my first experience with anti-Semitism was also at that school a Black boy at the school drew a swastika on the chalkboard and the teacher had to educate him that just because the Nazi's targeted Jews didn't mean they liked Blacks any better. I'm sure if they hadn't been stopped, once they finished with the Jews, they likely would then have targeted Blacks and then moved on to Hispanics and anyone else not seen as their perfect race of Whites.

 

And racism/anti-Semitism in any form is not right no matter who it comes from or for whatever reason. I honestly had hoped humanity as a whole could have moved past this stupidity. But I worry that won't ever happen not completely. You can't force people to think/feel differently than they do. But you can make it illegal for them to act on those thoughts and beliefs. And those laws that develop to help solve those problems need to be enforced for everyone, just because you have money and power doesn't mean you should be exempt from those rules/laws. And that is a huge part of the problem with America.

America forgets it was never actually White. You have Native Americans who were here first, you have the Spanish, and many others who came here all in the same time frame and for the reason of avoiding persecution in their homelands for not being enough like them. Our country fought for our freedom from the tyranny of the Old Worlds. So we could be free to be ourselves without oppression. WTF  America. I get that we were never perfect we've always been flawed how could we not be when we are partially founded on slavery. But we should have progressed more than this.

 

Your story of the Black child drawing a swastika reminds me of the Black athlete I saw in high school with a Confederate flag on her bag. I looked at that like, "Do you know the history of that flag???" 

 

America remembers it was never actually White, all right, and does its best to only focus on the good White portions of its history. The history you mentioned in your post is not truly taught in a good portion of this country. The Alamo wasn't even taught when I went through high school, I had to study that on my own. I would remove the "partially" from that second-to-last sentence, we were founded on slavery, genocide, and rioting. It's important to teach all of the history, not just the parts that made the Founding Fathers look good.

 

As an update to Trump's photo-op yesterday, it turns out that some of the protesters who were cleared out were also clergy on the church grounds, with at least one priest being tear-gassed. So now when I hear people say that Trump is the epitome of a good Christian, I can point to this incident. The President cleared out protesters and church grounds... for a photo-op... with a Bible that isn't his. Trump is the antithesis of Jesus Christ, he used the Bible and the church for political grandstanding. That's how deep his belief in God goes. Many leaders from the church have already condemned this act for what it is: using the church as a battleground. This man is cosplaying as a Christian.

 

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Posted (edited)

32 minutes ago, purpledragonclaw said:

I would remove the "partially" from that second-to-last sentence, we were founded on slavery, genocide, and rioting. It's important to teach all of the history, not just the parts that made the Founding Fathers look good.

 

 I used partially because Blacks weren't brought as slaves to the U.S. till 1619.  Although accounts of that time frame differ depending on the source. So let's just say it likely was going on before that. Also  Native Americans were turned into slaves around that time frame as well

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_the_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas

Source:https://www.history.com/news/american-slavery-before-jamestown-1619 

Disputes the 1619 timeline.

 

America was discovered as we are all taught( I assume) in 1492. That's more than a hundred years, even if it is a lot less, Not everyone supported slavery. Many fought against it. Which is why I say partially. I don't ignore the bad and only see the good. I don't see the founding fathers as good or perfect. America has a horrid history. I acknowledge that, I get that some don't. But I don't think it's entirely accurate to say we are completely founded on it. That's ignoring the good and only seeing the bad we need the WHOLE PICTURE.

Edited by AngelsSin

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3 minutes ago, AngelsSin said:

 

 I used partially because Blacks weren't brought as slaves to the U.S. till 1619. Also  Native Americans were turned into slaves around that time frame as well

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_the_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas

 

America was discovered as we are all taught( I assume) in 1492. That's more than a hundred years. Not everyone supported slavery. Many fought against it. Which is why I say partially. I don't ignore the bad and only see the good. I don't see the founding fathers as good or perfect. America has a horrid history. I acknowledge that, I get that some don't. But I don't think it's entirely accurate to say we are completely founded on it. That's ignoring the good and only seeing the bad we need the WHOLE PICTURE.

 

If you are talking about Christopher Columbus, he brought slavery to the New World, way before the enslavement of Blacks in the 1600s took hold. It was more focused on Natives at that point, but slavery is slavery. Your own link references the slave trade from the 15th century, the 1600s is the 17th century. Many did fight against it, true, but the original history dates back to Columbus. This is a good read on Christopher Columbus. It's one of the reasons so many native cultures want Columbus Day removed as a national holiday.

 

I know you don't ignore the bad and only see the good, that you choose to see the kaleidoscope of history, I can tell that from how you post. 

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Posted (edited)

20 minutes ago, purpledragonclaw said:

 

If you are talking about Christopher Columbus, he brought slavery to the New World, way before the enslavement of Blacks in the 1600s took hold. It was more focused on Natives at that point, but slavery is slavery. Your own link references the slave trade from the 15th century, the 1600s is the 17th century. Many did fight against it, true, but the original history dates back to Columbus. This is a good read on Christopher Columbus. It's one of the reasons so many native cultures want Columbus Day removed as a national holiday.

 

I know you don't ignore the bad and only see the good, that you choose to see the kaleidoscope of history, I can tell that from how you post. 

 

lol I was in the process of editing my first post to list the disputed timeline issues on it. I am a bit rusty on my history.  I can't believe I forgot about those used to sail/row the ship's of the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria. Shame on me. It's true what they say it you don't use it you lose it. Also not a fan of Christopher Columbus. His treatment  and America's treatment of Native Americans is a dark stain on American history. And yes that treatment began pretty much the moment we landed here.  As well as Black Slavery regardless of when it began. If you want to get technical slavery was already here before America was discovered as different Native American tribes kept slaves from other tribes. Sometimes humanity is a huge disappointment.

Edited by AngelsSin

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53 minutes ago, purpledragonclaw said:

As an update to Trump's photo-op yesterday, it turns out that some of the protesters who were cleared out were also clergy on the church grounds, with at least one priest being tear-gassed. So now when I hear people say that Trump is the epitome of a good Christian, I can point to this incident. The President cleared out protesters and church grounds... for a photo-op... with a Bible that isn't his. Trump is the antithesis of Jesus Christ, he used the Bible and the church for political grandstanding. That's how deep his belief in God goes. Many leaders from the church have already condemned this act for what it is: using the church as a battleground. This man is cosplaying as a Christian.

 

Sadly, not all "Christians" are agreeing with that view.

A few hours after the dystopian spectacle, I spoke on the phone with Robert Jeffress, a Dallas megachurch pastor and indefatigable Trump ally. He sounded almost gleeful.

“I thought it was completely appropriate for the president to stand in front of that church,” Jeffress told me. “And by holding up the Bible, he was showing us that it teaches that, yes, God hates racism, it’s despicable—but God also hates lawlessness.”

“So,” he added, “I’m happy.”

 

In many ways, the president’s stunt last night—with its mix of shallow credal signaling and brutish force—was emblematic of his appeal to the religious right. As I’ve written before, most white conservative Christians don’t want piety from this president; they want power. In Trump, they see a champion who will restore them to their rightful place at the center of American life, while using his terrible swift sword to punish their enemies.

This dynamic was on vivid display throughout the night. Even as cities across the country once again spiraled into chaos, prominent conservative evangelicals cheered Trump’s performance on Twitter.

“I don’t know about you but I’ll take a president with a Bible in his hand in front of a church over far left violent radicals setting a church on fire any day of the week,” wrote David Brody, a news anchor at the Christian Broadcasting Network. (Trump selected St. John’s, which has hosted presidents since James Madison for worship services, because protesters had set a fire in its nursery the night before.)

 

“I will never forget seeing [Trump] slowly & in-total-command walk … across Lafayette Square to St. John’s Church defying those who aim to derail our national healing by spreading fear, hate & anarchy,” wrote Johnnie Moore, the president of the Congress of Christian Leaders.

In an email to me, Ralph Reed, the chairman of the Faith and Freedom Coalition, heaped praise on Trump for his visit: “His presence sent the twin message that our streets and cities do not belong to rioters and domestic terrorists, and that the ultimate answer to what ails our country can be found in the repentance, redemption, and forgiveness of the Christian faith.”

(...)

That Trump’s religious posturing has little to do with religion has long been a matter of conventional wisdom (see: Corinthians, Two); fewer have grasped the extent to which that’s true of Trump’s “religious” base as well.

(...)

To Trump, the Bible and the church are not symbols of faith; they are weapons of culture war. And to many of his Christian supporters watching at home, the pandering wasn’t an act of inauthenticity; it was a sign of allegiance—and shared dominance.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/trumps-biblical-spectacle-outside-st-johns-church/612529/

 

As a person of Christian faith, those quotes make me cringe.

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7 hours ago, purplehaze said:

Sadly I share that fear. He is setting us up for that now. And he is quite good at whipping his followers into a frenzy. His rallies have been frightening to watch.

 

They are. It's amazing how much he is willing to screw those people over, yet they stand there and lap it up like it's the word of god himself.

1 hour ago, purpledragonclaw said:

 

This racism and hatred has always been here, Trump just emboldened them to come off the internet, take off their masks, and strut it proudly. These are people who would rather see statues of war criminals on the losing side of the Civil War remain up while vilifying those fighting for equal rights. People who celebrate treason and owning humans as property. Because in the end, that's what the Civil War was fought over: the right to own Blacks as property. 

 

This time, it may just burn down. I know people who lived through the 1960s and 1970s that say they've never experienced anything like this.


Oh, I know. It's sad seeing it finally out in light like this, I know it's always been there and hope that future generations can finally kill this crap off but we are a long way from doing so. My parents was born in the late 50s (Dad in 56, Mom in 59) even they are both saying something is going to happen. I'm honestly at a loss of what to even think anymore with this country. We keep saying we are number one, well we are number one in a lot of ways and NONE of them good!

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Posted (edited)

It's why I think Trump is the Third Anti-Christ and is paving the way not just for civil war but WWIII. He is not just bringing to the forefront the worst traits of humanity, but glorifying it. And it seems we are helpless to stop it. I pray I'm wrong and this madness can be stopped before it gets to that point. The last thing I want is to live through a time when things like that can happen.

I hope the U.S. military steps up and acknowledges that we have a Rogue President. They have a responsibility to the American People to protect us from such a thing. It supersedes any loyalty to this or any President.

I don't expect much from Congress to be honest not with the Republicans in the majority. I don't know where all their spines went but most clearly no longer have one.

We can fix the U.S. Supreme Court if we end up with Biden as President. If he chooses to he can add seats to the Supreme Court to counter-balance Trump's picks. While it might be controversial it is legal from what I understand. It might not be done often but it can be done. (Something that should give us a bit of hope)

I hope come November we vote his (Trump's) depraved self out of office, (and all his cronies when they are up for re-election), even if we have to toss him and his stuff out on the streets to get rid of him. I can't believe I once thought George W. Bush was the worst thing (President) to happen to this country (in my lifetime) but he pales in comparison.

Edited by AngelsSin

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