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On 3/17/2020 at 12:28 AM, StormBirdRising said:

At this point I think it is anybody's guess. He shook hands with at least 2 people who later tested positive for COVID 19 and were quarantined. He doesn't have any symptoms and he is still as energetic as the Energizer Bunny. The funniest thing about that scenario is that he was shaking hands with everyone, and then later that day he told his staff to stop shaking hands to prevent the spread of the disease. He must have some kind of immunity.

Or maybe the covid patients used good hand hygiene and actually washed their hands...

Personally, I took little blood sample (for determining blood sugar) and injected insulin into a lady who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 and had been having symptoms for weeks. Yes, i did so more than once. My test came up negative, too. Does it mean I'm immune? Far from it. But it's a mark of professionalism to keep your hands hygienic in my profession. Maybe that's part of it? That and the fact this lady didn't cough or sneeze at me. (Just as an aside, I do use gloves for taking these little drops of blood. Another mark of professionalism.)

 

On 4/16/2020 at 1:53 PM, StormBirdRising said:

Even amid the coronavirus pandemic, where the entire world is suffering loss of life and their economies are fast becoming crippled, it is politics as usual for some people. Every four years there is an election for the Office of the President. And every four years, only one person can win the election and become the President of the United States. Usually the losing side whines and cries for a few months and then it is business as usual. But not this time. The whiners and criers have done nothing to make America great again for the past four years, but instead have tried to undermine the lawful President because they are sore losers.

??? Trump hasn't done anything to make the US great, either. Not at all. He made one of the mightiest and best-connected nations into an international laughing stock. He constantly rebuffed his allies, and flirted with the world's most autocratic and macchiavellian leaders. And, no, there's no whining. There's criticism. Which is supposed to happen when necessary - at least in a true democracy.

 

On 4/16/2020 at 1:53 PM, StormBirdRising said:

They still can't believe that a German-American businessman, who is not a politician but an American patriot,  was America's choice to lead the nation. They make fun of his appearance, of his skin color, of the color of his hair, his speech patterns, his Christian religion, and of his family, mocking his super model wife, his accomplished older children, and his little son. It is pathetic. It is so against the grain of everything that America stands for.

Well, his skin has a weird yellow-to-orange hue that's not normal. Especially not for a "white" male. His hair is a testament to his belief that everyone will just see the hair's surface, but not that it's rather sparse. His patterns of speech are weirdly repetitive - and very close to what I've noticed in a lot of people in early stages of dementia. (Yes, I work with older people professionally. This slight stuttering and searching for words, as well as repeating whole sentences when agitated or at a loss for word is typical for people with dementia.)

Asking what makes the adult Trump children (and their spouses) into experts on pandemics, for example, is not mockery. It's a valid question. And, no, "one of their great-uncles teaches/taught at MIT" is not a valid answer. The claim that Barron Trump's given name looks like Donald tried to give a noble title to his son (because it almost looks and totally sounds like Baron) is not mockery of little Barron, but of big ole Donald. (Just saying.)

 

Oh, and let's do a fun thing and compare symptoms of dementia that we can observe in Trump:

  1. Need for prompting: Trump has shown time and again that he needs reminders of what he wants to say - even if it's just one single main sentence.
  2. Trouble finding words: That's most likely what happens when he gets into one of his mini-pauses before launching into a repetition of his last statement. I haven't seen that many speeches of Trump, but even so, this tendency is very noticeable.
  3. Bad temper - there are countless reports and videos of Trump going off on people who dare to criticize him. He usually insults them in the worst way possible - but even there, he's repetitive in his statements, his favorite words being "fake" and "disgrace" and "witchhunt". 
  4. Delusion: He really thinks he did everything right in this crisis. Enough said. (No, it's not a little flu. No, it doesn't just go away on its own. No, the US aren't over the worst part of the pandemic, the worst is yet to come. No, there weren't more fans watching his inauguration than there were for Obama. No, there are no allies of his working against the WHO.

 

On 4/16/2020 at 1:53 PM, StormBirdRising said:

But it might be forever if a vaccine is not found. But are people worried about how to put the world back together again when and if this crisis is ever over?, no, they are worried about how they can blame the President Donald Trump for everything that happens in America and in the rest of the world. It is just American politics as usual. Nothing new.

Yes, people are worried on how thing are going to be going forward. How we're going back to normal - or what our new normal is going to be. And I'm quite happy that we're doing the first few steps towards normalcy here in Germany. (I'm definitely not happy with all details, but that's a different story.) Nobody I know blames Trump for what happens outside the US, but he is rightfully to blame for what's going wrong in the US. He's the ultimate authority, after all. But, unfortunatley, Trump doesn't choose to lead, he chooses to bulldoze. I'm sure you can see the difference.

 

On 4/16/2020 at 2:43 PM, Astreya said:

@StormBirdRising

I'm intrigued that you think people have a problem with Mr.Trump due to externalities like appearance etc, but you do not see that the problems are actually substantial like the facts that

 

Mr.Trump continually lies, makes wrong statements, contradicts himself and twists the truth (I know you don't like to read up factual links that don't go along with your convictions, but Wikipedia has a nice overview complete with sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump

*clap* *clap* *clap* That and the rest of the post. Thank you for posting it.

 

On 4/16/2020 at 2:55 PM, StormBirdRising said:

Really, even in this forum he has been referred to as "orange man" and "orange thing". If that is not a racist statement then I don't know what is.

There is no orange race, so how can it be racism? Looks like you really don't know what it is.

 

On 4/16/2020 at 2:55 PM, StormBirdRising said:

He was elected because he is an American patriot and he is not a politician. He puts America first, and for this American patriot, that is a good thing. He is the leader of the United States, not the world.

Well, many American presidents were considered leaders of the world - or a large part of it. However, you're absolutely right that Trump totally blew it. Nobody in their right mind will look to him for leadership, because he has such a severe lack of that quality that it's doubtful he even knows how it's spelled.

 

On 4/16/2020 at 2:55 PM, StormBirdRising said:

I don't know of the other world leaders, because all over the world, in every newspaper, television reports, and all over the internet, I never see very much news of anyone but the American President. It is as if the whole world wants him to be a god, to fix everything and save everyone. But he is just the American President and he is doing a great job.

The US are notorious for not giving a damn about any other country, thus they don't report on things going on somewhere else most of the time. Which is why you specifically only see news of the American president. Because he's *your* president.

Nobody wants Trump to be a god, although he has almost claimed that title for himself already. (I'm atheist, so I don't give a damn about deities, be they false or true.)

And, no, Trump is not doing a good job. He's doing the worst job of any US president ever. 

 

5 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

That is really a very condescending commentary, to assert that people like grocery workers, delivery drivers, farmers etc are lower echelon because of the jobs they do. That is so against the American spirit. I don't judge people by what they do for a living, and I hope no one judges me, but I can see that is not the case.

 

It is absurd to think that because Americans have different jobs  they are somehow different or have different values. We all want to live the American dream here. I have never heard  anyone besides you judge a person by what type of job they have.

You're badly misinterpreting what has been said. People like grocery workers, delivery drivers, farmers etc are lower economic echelon because they don't get paid nearly well enough. Which shouldn't happen, but happens anyway because, apparently, that is the American spirit. Nobody here judged people for what they're doing, but judged how they are being treated and paid. Once again, there is a difference. I hope you can see that - instead of "seeing" people judge others for the jobs they have.

It's also not about values in the cultural sense, but the economic sense at worst. If you make good money, you can afford way more things than someone who can hardly make ends meet. You may value your ability to get expensive surgery RIGHT THIS WEEK because you can afford to pay for it. Others don't value that option because they can't afford the very same surgery anyway - at least not without selling their home, emptying their retirement fonds and their children's collge funds.

 

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

 

 

That is really a very condescending commentary, to assert that people like grocery workers, delivery drivers, farmers etc are lower echelon because of the jobs they do. That is so against the American spirit. I don't judge people by what they do for a living, and I hope no one judges me, but I can see that is not the case.

 

It is absurd to think that because Americans have different jobs  they are somehow different or have different values. We all want to live the American dream here. I have never heard  anyone besides you judge a person by what type of job they have.

 

I love that you chose not to debate the merits of the rest of my post, but to nitpick the word choices I used to describe workers who are clearly in a different economic bracket than you are. A word choice that everyone else clearly understood. And in a capitalist society, they are in a "lower echelon" bracket than you are. That's also a fact. That "lower echelon" is based on income. That is the "American spirit" of capitalism you so throatily embrace. And I'm not judging you for your opinions, I'm challenging you on your opinions, can you not see the difference? I try not to judge, I don't always succeed, but I guarantee you I'm not judging you, or anyone else, here.

 

The fact that having a certain income level grants you a certain level of privilege and success is a core tenet of capitalism. It's why the 1% are so well taken care of by our government that should serve all people. It's why teachers, who do the essential work of preparing the next generation for the future by educating them, all over the country have had to strike to get better benefits, retirement plans, and updated teaching materials. It's why our truck drivers, who do some of the most essential work required to keep our country running, are classified as "independent contractors", like gig economy workers, and don't get healthcare, sick leave, or vacation time. I and many other people have corrected your assertions and you just choose to ignore us or focus on our word choices rather than engage in a discussion for why we disagree with Trump as a person and a president. 

 

And as to your "Christian religion" comment on Trump, I have yet to hear any religious person who loves President "Two Corinthians" explain what values of Jesus Christ Trump exemplifies so well.

Edited by purpledragonclaw

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Posted (edited)

Lower echelon person here! I understood perfectly what purpledragonclaw was talking about. But let's face it: StormBirdRising is consistently and constantly  using "the" right before Trump's name (thus making him an object, rather than a person). So, I don't think the nuances of English are a strong point for StormBird. What do I know, though? And, no, that's not a crack at non-English speakers, just to clarify. But it is a problem, StormBird, that you tried to make out someone as a villain because of word choice you didn't understand instead of asking "can you clarify what you mean?"
-> I include this because, in Spanish, we say "La Señora Reyes" which equals "The Mrs. Reyes".

Again, I'm lower echelon. Working class, more specifically, on the verge of poverty. I've lived in a 32 foot trailer before. I've lived on food stamps before. My household lives paycheck to paycheck, even though we have more than one income. Except, this pandemic has put all of us out of work. My new job, Food Service, hasn't even started because my training's been postponed. My dad's work has been reduced to nothing (driving tour groups and such) because events are cancelled. My mom's new job was pretty much dropped by her employers because "we'll just take this day by day and call you if we need you". It's been weeks now. I'm barely able to cover my credit card bills with what meager savings I was able to gather up, but I'm having to put far more charges onto my credit in order to help pay for things and my parents used to have covered. So, my monthly fees are increasing and I'm almost out of room on said cards. I have no means of paying for any emergency, be it medical, related to the house and/or appliances, or vehicular.

 

I've worked at McDonald's before. For a solid year. And I can most definitely tell you: many people who never worked customer service, fast food, or other low-wage jobs, often treat us earning those low wages (that can't even pay for a studio apartment at $800/month rent) like crap. They treat us as inferior and harass/abuse us for every little slight and we're not allowed to do a thing against them/to defend ourselves because "the customer is always right". But they also always forget that someone has to work this job if they ever expect to get their greasy, slimy, cheeseburger. 

I'm (trying) to return to Food Service because it was the kind of job(s) that were/are available while I'm still taking classes at Uni. However, those hours, that salary, is going to barely cover my bills and I'll need as much help from my family just to keep afloat. 

 

Sorry, I don't believe in some "American Dream". Most especially because that "dream" is a racist, Superior White Man, idealization. 

Edited by ValidEmotions

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Posted (edited)

I have a master's degree and many other qualifications. I have had to work in a supermarket and on a factory line in my time. One does what one has to. I KNOW what it's like and even more (as there was always a light at the end of my tunnel) I know what it is like for all my colleagues who were stuck there.

 

Quote

 I don't judge people by what they do for a living, and I hope no one judges me, but I can see that is not the case.

 

I don't judge you by what you do for a living, StormBirdRising. I judge you by your posts - which show a truly frightening lack of understanding of, or compassion for, those millions of Americans who haven't had your good fortune, and who show far more humanity than your posts do. At least imagine living in their shoes, as I doubt if you would ever be brave enough actually to try it.

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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Posted (edited)

I think you should slowly get really afraid in the US:

 

After the president tweeted “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” on Friday morning, as well as “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” and “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!” online far-right communities speculated over whether Trump was advocating armed conflict.

Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/trump-s-liberate-tweets-extremists-see-call-arms-n1186561

 

Edited by Astreya

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21 minutes ago, Astreya said:

Of course he's inciting violence. It's what he does. He boasts about violence. Not sure if anyone has forgotten that he's also encouraged police officers to go straight to physically abusing people of color, regardless if they're even guilty of a crime. 

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@ValidEmotions

As I already posted in the Corona thread - but obviously it is probably even more relevant here:

 

Mr.Trump obviously wants to figure out how many people he can really kill with impunity.

(Remember his quote from 2016: "I could shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters" - Source)

 

This is maybe some food for thought: "Is the Trump Cult a Death Cult?"

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1 minute ago, Astreya said:

This is maybe some food for thought: "Is the Trump Cult a Death Cult?"

I'll need time to go through that whole link but my first impression on the title alone is: 

 

Trump Cult being a Death Cult might hold some water if capitalism weren't in the mix.

But then again, when you take into account the recent protests against Stay-At-Home orders because "weh, muh civil liburties" and the amount of people who STILL believe the Coronavirus is a "Dem/Lib" hoax (unfortunately they exist, in numbers I didn't think possible) -- then heck, maybe the Trump Cult is a Death Cult. They all want the "civil liberty" to spread a highly contagious, deadly disease to themselves and others, the consequences be damned! Maybe they've gone big brain and realized that the only escape from capitalist hell is through finally kicking the bucket.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

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1 hour ago, Astreya said:

I think you should slowly get really afraid in the US:

 

Slowly? Alas, I have been afraid for quite some time. This man is a dangerous and hate-filled person who doesn't care how many people he hurts. He only cares about one person.

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29 minutes ago, FoxiRoxi said:

Trump Cult being a Death Cult might hold some water if capitalism weren't in the mix.

Well, obviously Republican Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick said seniors are willing to die for the econmy..On Fox News’ Tucker Carlson Tonight, Patrick said, “No one reached out to me as a senior citizen and said, as a senior citizen, 'Are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?’ And if that’s the exchange, I’m all in." He later added, “There are lots of grandparents out there like me.”

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Posted (edited)

i don't like trump because he's shown himself to be racist and creepy and a liar. he bungled this whole corona thing, people called him on it, and now he's desperate to save face by blaming anyone, anything, other than his own slow response to this. 

 

i don't have major medical insurance. i get some...i guess i would call it supplemental insurance?...through my work (i work at a gas station) for ~16 bucks a week. i pay for the most expensive type available to me. and i got a letter telling me that, if i didn't have major medical insurance in addition to this supplemental from work, i would probably incur significant medical costs. hey, at least they're honest? hopefully i still qualify for medicaid; we just sent in the yearly recertifications (my mom gets a small amount of food stamps, i get medicaid). i can't afford major medical treatments for anything. this supplemental didn't even cover the labwork my dr ordered last fall, which had to be re-billed through medicaid for it to be paid for. 

 

everyone tells us to save, save, save our money, but how do we do that when most of us lower echelon workers are living paycheck to paycheck, barely staying financially solvent? i make ~350 a week, and out of that ~200 is already claimed for transportation and groceries and the rest will go to whatever bills need to be paid that week. there are very few "leftovers" that could be put into savings.

 

how do we even justify saving money for future emergencies when just trying to scrape together rent or utility money for this month only is a right now emergency?

 

i have a bit over 1100 in savings, almost entirely from tax refund leftovers and a bunch from my stimulus check. i don't plan to touch it, but sometimes we need a bit here and there. our washer died a couple weeks into lockdown and i had to put it on credit...so that's where the rest of my stimulus money went. 

 

i'm luckier than most. our rent is less than half the market rate for this neighborhood, and only because we rent from friends. the other alternative is homelessness, because i don't know that we could scrape together first and last month + a deposit + a pet deposit at an apartment (we currently rent a house). forget the other deposits - my savings amount might not even cover first+last month rent amount for an apartment, and don't even think about adding in moving costs (we have no vehicle, so we'd have to have movers or rideshares). between my pay and mom's disability money we have about ~2k/mo to work with...and many rents are 600+ just for the rent, hopefully utils included but not always. so rent alone somewhere else would take over a quarter of our income, and the only thing we could possibly cut is the grocery budget.

 

this is why americans lose everything and go bankrupt when medical bills hit, because an astoundingly high number of us are one paycheck, one rent raise, one vehicular failure away from dire poverty. we need everything we have just to tide us through to the next paycheck. I lose one week of work? I can't get to work next week, because I need that paycheck to pay for rides. i don't have liquid assets to sell for quick cash when it comes down to it. no gold, silver, jewellery, no valuables like antiques, no property. i never call out sick; last summer i had bronchitis (following a cold) for a month and worked through it because i couldn't justify calling out and losing money.  

 

so...yeah. the healthcare system here is bogus. and i'm not very happy with capitalism either. this "american dream" isn't working for thousands upon thousands of us.

Edited by Infinis

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@Astreya

Oh I get what you're saying. But wait then..

 

Trump Cult is full of capitalists.. capitalism itself could be considered a cult... oh my god, Capitalism is a Death Cult... 

 

Mind Blown GIF - Mind Blown GIFs

 

 

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@FoxiRoxi

Considering you have people like a certain Dr. Mehmet Oz who originally said: “I just saw a nice piece in The Lancet arguing that the opening of schools may only cost us 2 to 3 percent in terms of total mortality. You know, that’s — any life is a life lost, but to get every child back into a school where they’re safely being educated, being fed, and making the most out of their lives, with the theoretical risk on the backside, it might be a trade-off some folks would consider.” one is really left to wonder how much they think a life is worth in the US...

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/business/media/dr-oz-apology-coronavirus.html

 

Edited by Astreya

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And Dr. Phil chiming in now too, about how Car accidents and drownings are worse than Covid-19.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/17/lets-explore-exactly-why-dr-phils-coronavirus-arguments-are-so-obtuse/

Dr. Phil, who, if anyone was confused, is not an M.D. 

 

But yeah. Between  Dan Patrick, Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil, Ben Shapiro (and all the other GOP pundits), it's a wonder how anyone actually, honestly believes that these people care about them. 2-3 % dead in our schools 2-3% dead in the streets, 2-3% dead in the hospitals. What's a few million people compared to.. well, cold hard cash?

 

A life in the US is worth only as much as you can sell it for. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, FoxiRoxi said:

A life in the US is worth only as much as you can sell it for. 

 

This is at the heart of it all.

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It is American politics as usual but this week should prove to be a lot hotter than usual. Democrats have been breaking ranks with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi over her refusal to allow Congress to pass critical funding to save small businesses after the $350 billion loan program set up to provide federal assistance was officially exhausted on Thursday. Former President Barack Obama’s small-business chief during his first term, Karen Mills, began urging Democrats to pass new funding immediately.

 

“Congress has to act as soon as possible,” Mills said in an interview with Roll Call Thursday, “Number one, get the money replenished.”

Funding ran out for the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) established in the $2.3 trillion dollar Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act for small businesses struggling to stay afloat amid the coronavirus crisis after just two weeks after loans became available.

 

Congressional Republicans have been trying for more than a week to pass a clean funding bill allocating $250 billion to replenish the program as it became increasingly apparent that funds would soon run out. Pelosi, however, blocked the legislation in order to offer a counter-proposal of her own consisting of a long wish-list of items and calling for more oversight for the program. Really, Mrs. Pelosi, what don't you understand about 22 million Americans applying for employment and small businesses in danger of permanent closure because most parts of the nation are locked down and they are unable to conduct business while they are still trying to make payroll, pay their building rent, and take care of all the responsibilities that small business owners have. This isn't the time to play games Mrs. Pelosi because you are not sticking it to President Trump like you joked about, you are sticking it to the American people.

 

Mills pleaded with Democrats on Capitol Hill to pass funding now as there’s no time to delay additional resources to the suffering businesses preparing to go under.

“Complexity is not our friend here,” Mills told Roll Call. “Things that have to be implemented quickly can’t have a lot of bells and whistles, or else there will be too many unintended consequences – one of which is delay. And we don’t have time to delay.”

 

As the signs became clear that small business funds were nearing exhaustion, House Speaker Pelosi brushed off concerns of their depletion calling such predictions and the proposed Republican funding for replenishment a “stunt.” Well, Mrs. Pelosi now you know that it was not a stunt or a hoax, the money has been depleted and there are still small businesses that need the money you promised them. They are standing in line waiting for you to wake up.

 

When pressed by Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin as to why she was holding small business funding  hostage during a Thursday press conference, House Speaker Pelosi responded by saying that there’s “no data as to why we need it,”. Well, maybe because the funding ran out and there are still small businesses that need that money? Small business that will go under unless they receive that money. Could that be the reason?

 

Former Small Business Chief Mills was joined by Arizona Democratic Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, and Democratic Sens. Tina Smith of Minnesota and Joe Manchin of West Virginia. The Democratic Senators stated that small businesses and healthcare providers are hurting in their states and need that relief, and they need it now; and so do the other 48 states. The whole country is hurting right now and it is not time to hold up funding for political reasons.

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

It is American politics as usual but this week should prove to be a lot hotter than usual. Democrats have been breaking ranks with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi over her refusal to allow Congress to pass critical funding to save small businesses after the $350 billion loan program set up to provide federal assistance was officially exhausted on Thursday. Former President Barack Obama’s small-business chief during his first term, Karen Mills, began urging Democrats to pass new funding immediately.

 

“Congress has to act as soon as possible,” Mills said in an interview with Roll Call Thursday, “Number one, get the money replenished.”

Funding ran out for the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) established in the $2.3 trillion dollar Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act for small businesses struggling to stay afloat amid the coronavirus crisis after just two weeks after loans became available.

 

Congressional Republicans have been trying for more than a week to pass a clean funding bill allocating $250 billion to replenish the program as it became increasingly apparent that funds would soon run out. Pelosi, however, blocked the legislation in order to offer a counter-proposal of her own consisting of a long wish-list of items and calling for more oversight for the program. Really, Mrs. Pelosi, what don't you understand about 22 million Americans applying for employment and small businesses in danger of permanent closure because most parts of the nation are locked down and they are unable to conduct business while they are still trying to make payroll, pay their building rent, and take care of all the responsibilities that small business owners have. This isn't the time to play games Mrs. Pelosi because you are not sticking it to President Trump like you joked about, you are sticking it to the American people.

 

Mills pleaded with Democrats on Capitol Hill to pass funding now as there’s no time to delay additional resources to the suffering businesses preparing to go under.

“Complexity is not our friend here,” Mills told Roll Call. “Things that have to be implemented quickly can’t have a lot of bells and whistles, or else there will be too many unintended consequences – one of which is delay. And we don’t have time to delay.”

 

As the signs became clear that small business funds were nearing exhaustion, House Speaker Pelosi brushed off concerns of their depletion calling such predictions and the proposed Republican funding for replenishment a “stunt.” Well, Mrs. Pelosi now you know that it was not a stunt or a hoax, the money has been depleted and there are still small businesses that need the money you promised them. They are standing in line waiting for you to wake up.

 

When pressed by Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin as to why she was holding small business funding  hostage during a Thursday press conference, House Speaker Pelosi responded by saying that there’s “no data as to why we need it,”. Well, maybe because the funding ran out and there are still small businesses that need that money? Small business that will go under unless they receive that money. Could that be the reason?

 

Former Small Business Chief Mills was joined by Arizona Democratic Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, and Democratic Sens. Tina Smith of Minnesota and Joe Manchin of West Virginia. The Democratic Senators stated that small businesses and healthcare providers are hurting in their states and need that relief, and they need it now; and so do the other 48 states. The whole country is hurting right now and it is not time to hold up funding for political reasons.

 

For more context for why Democrats are stalling on this bill, to add on to what @AngelsSin stated above:

 

-Democrats want to ensure financing for minority-owned and rural businesses

-Democrats want to ensure financing for assistance for the poor

-Democrats want to ensure funding for hospitals, states, and local governments

-Democrats want additional safeguards for the funds being allocated to the above groups so they are not left behind after the disastrous results of the first bill

 

Sources:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-lending/u-s-loan-program-hits-350-billion-cap-leaving-thousands-of-small-businesses-adrift-idUSKCN21Y2BV

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/small-business-loan-program-just-hit-its-350-billion-cap-n1185406

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6 hours ago, purpledragonclaw said:

 

For more context for why Democrats are stalling on this bill, to add on to what @AngelsSin stated above:

 

-Democrats want to ensure financing for minority-owned and rural businesses

-Democrats want to ensure financing for assistance for the poor

-Democrats want to ensure funding for hospitals, states, and local governments

-Democrats want additional safeguards for the funds being allocated to the above groups so they are not left behind after the disastrous results of the first bill

 

Sources:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-lending/u-s-loan-program-hits-350-billion-cap-leaving-thousands-of-small-businesses-adrift-idUSKCN21Y2BV

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/small-business-loan-program-just-hit-its-350-billion-cap-n1185406

 

1. It is not all the Democrats, it is Nancy Pelosi, sitting in one of her multi million dollar mansions, holding press video conferences and interviews and saying how she "held the bill up". She was laughing about it, as if funding for small businesses was a joke. As if the people on the payroll of small businesses don't need their paychecks.

It is disgusting that this 80 year old woman, who has consistently claimed to have as much power as the President, is lauding herself over the needs of the American people. Most Democratic Senators and Congressmen are scrambling to get funds for their constituents and are disgusted with Pelosi's grandstanding, and have been very open about it. She is so out of touch with the average American. She has no idea what is happening and how many businesses and individuals will be bankrupt if this is not replenished.

 

2.The bill has already passed, it is already the law, with all the constitutional protections already in it. The SBA, the Treasury Department, and the banks continue to follow the law. Nobody is being shut out for any other reason than Pelosi is holding up the funding, so no one is able to get financing until she stops playing games. It  has run out of money. It needs additional funding. That is the ONLY issue.

 

3. Only the SBA part of the CARES Act has run out of money. Financing for hospitals, states, local governments, and the poor is still available. It is still being distributed. But the SBA provisions need more funding, so until she stops blocking it, NO ONE is able to get any of the SBA money.

 

4. As far as "The fact is the banks prioritized giving loans to existing customers first", that is correct. In any transaction , as in this one, when the bank is already familiar with a business owner or the company, it is much easier to get funding because the bank already has all of their information. For these SBA loans the existing customer, because the bank already had all of their verified information, only had to fill out 2 forms to apply for the money. The other customers had to verify their information and in that time the money ran out. That is why it needs to be replenished, because small businesses and their workers need that money to survive.

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7 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

She is so out of touch with the average American.

Coming from you, of all people, I'd say that's pot calling kettle black.

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4 hours ago, olympe said:

Coming from you, of all people, I'd say that's pot calling kettle black.

 

PDC has it about right., She wants help for ALL Americans, not just for the banks and the people who already have money.

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, StormBirdRising said:

 

1. It is not all the Democrats, it is Nancy Pelosi, sitting in one of her multi million dollar mansions, holding press video conferences and interviews and saying how she "held the bill up". She was laughing about it, as if funding for small businesses was a joke. As if the people on the payroll of small businesses don't need their paychecks.

It is disgusting that this 80 year old woman, who has consistently claimed to have as much power as the President, is lauding herself over the needs of the American people. Most Democratic Senators and Congressmen are scrambling to get funds for their constituents and are disgusted with Pelosi's grandstanding, and have been very open about it. She is so out of touch with the average American. She has no idea what is happening and how many businesses and individuals will be bankrupt if this is not replenished.

 

2.The bill has already passed, it is already the law, with all the constitutional protections already in it. The SBA, the Treasury Department, and the banks continue to follow the law. Nobody is being shut out for any other reason than Pelosi is holding up the funding, so no one is able to get financing until she stops playing games. It  has run out of money. It needs additional funding. That is the ONLY issue.

 

3. Only the SBA part of the CARES Act has run out of money. Financing for hospitals, states, local governments, and the poor is still available. It is still being distributed. But the SBA provisions need more funding, so until she stops blocking it, NO ONE is able to get any of the SBA money.

 

4. As far as "The fact is the banks prioritized giving loans to existing customers first", that is correct. In any transaction , as in this one, when the bank is already familiar with a business owner or the company, it is much easier to get funding because the bank already has all of their information. For these SBA loans the existing customer, because the bank already had all of their verified information, only had to fill out 2 forms to apply for the money. The other customers had to verify their information and in that time the money ran out. That is why it needs to be replenished, because small businesses and their workers need that money to survive.

 

1. A more accurate phrasing of the deadlock is "Nancy Pelosi and Kevin McCarthy can't reach a compromise to release the next round of funding for the SBA."  Just because three Democrats broke ranks with Pelosi (and two of those three tend to break ranks more often than not anyway) does not mean it is all on Nancy Pelosi. It is not. Her actions coincide with what most of the party wants. Please show me her laughing about holding up small business. And as to being "in one of her multi million dollar mansions", you do realize the majority of people in Congress are millionaires, right? I also don't understand the shade thrown at her age there, why is that important? Mitch McConnell is 78, Trump is 74, Biden is 78, your point being? If anything, the rage should be the fact that a large number of the silent generation and boomers are not giving the next generations a shot at higher positions of power. Both parties are bad at this. And why can Mitch McConnell brag about blocking multiple legislative bills from the House and not get the same kind of heat you send Nancy Pelosi's way here? Why is it okay for one side, not the other? And most of the older generation in Congress, on both sides of the aisle, is out of touch with the average American. They have no idea what's happening and how hard it is to make a living. That's what happens when corporations effectively purchase politicians through lobbying.

 

2. Did you just dismiss the very legitimate reasons I linked for Democrats holding up the funding as "playing games"? Do those demographics not matter? And people have been shut out, see point 4.

 

3. Not enough, not nearly enough. There needs to be more, those areas have always been historically underfunded, and they're being hit especially hard now.

 

4. You're partly correct here: banks are prioritizing loans to existing customers, but what's missing is the fact they're prioritizing customers already borrowing from the bank on giving small business loans. So if you have several accounts that run a positive balance (money market, certificate of deposit, interest-bearing checking account) rather than a negative one (mortgage, credit card, monthly-fee checking account, etc) those customers were not able to get funds before the available money from the bill ran out. Keep in mind these aren't customers trying to open a new account and become a new customer, they already had existing accounts expecting to access the money through their bank. This is what happened from the last SBA that both parties rushed out the door; to keep this from happening again, there should be safeguards built in to keep banks from practicing favoritism to who they grant access to these funds, which ties back in to what AngelsSin said about how they have to get this right. 

 

Source for point 4: https://www.baltimoresun.com/coronavirus/bs-md-small-business-lending-shut-out-bank-america-20200404-xeye5y2uxndmtbe62rhll5ijti-story.html

Edited by purpledragonclaw

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Posted (edited)

Well, well...

Quote

Donald Trump reportedly owes tens of millions to the Bank of China 

Debt derives from 30% share the US president owns in a Manhattan building that was refinanced in 2012

Donald Trump is reported to owe tens of millions of dollars to China, through a real estate debt which falls due in 2022, offering “astonishing leverage” to Beijing.

 

The debt derives from a 30% share the US president owns in a billion-dollar building on the Avenue of the Americas in Manhattan, which was refinanced in 2012, with $211m of the funding coming from the state-owned Bank of China, Politico reported on Friday.

(...)

“I study Beijing’s influence on America, and this is the most problematic conflict of interest I’ve seen,” Isaac Stone Fish, a senior fellow at the Asia Society, wrote on Twitter. “The Bank of China is a state-owned bank, controlled by China’s State Council, the country’s major administrative body, chaired by the Premier Li Keqiang.

 

“The leverage this presents is astonishing. What if the Bank of China cancels the loan, or requires Trump to pay it back earlier?” Fish asked. “Is this why Trump often praises Chinese Chairman Xi Jinping? Does this cause him to temper his policies or his public remarks? This raises so many questions.”

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/24/donald-trump-bank-of-china-debt-report

 

Edited by Astreya

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On 4/17/2020 at 11:22 AM, Fuzzbucket said:

I have a master's degree and many other qualifications. I have had to work in a supermarket and on a factory line in my time. One does what one has to. I KNOW what it's like and even more (as there was always a light at the end of my tunnel) I know what it is like for all my colleagues who were stuck there.

 

 

I don't judge you by what you do for a living, StormBirdRising. I judge you by your posts - which show a truly frightening lack of understanding of, or compassion for, those millions of Americans who haven't had your good fortune, and who show far more humanity than your posts do. At least imagine living in their shoes, as I doubt if you would ever be brave enough actually to try it.

 

I don't judge anyone, not for their job, not for their posts, not for any reason. I don't judge. Everyone has a right to their opinion, even if I don't agree with it. It is their right. And I accept that.

 

What do you mean " I know what it is like for all my colleagues who were stuck there." Stuck where, what does that mean, that there is something wrong in a supermarket job or in a factory job? There is nothing wrong with working in those places. They are productive members of society. Do you think they are less than people who are doctors, or attorneys, or professors, or nurses? They are not less than anyone. There is nothing wrong with working in a supermarket or a factory line.

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20 minutes ago, StormBirdRising said:

What do you mean " I know what it is like for all my colleagues who were stuck there." Stuck where, what does that mean, that there is something wrong in a supermarket job or in a factory job? There is nothing wrong with working in those places. They are productive members of society. Do you think they are less than people who are doctors, or attorneys, or professors, or nurses? They are not less than anyone. There is nothing wrong with working in a supermarket or a factory line.

That is a bad-faith question and you know it, StormBird. Everyone has already made it clear that they aren't judging people as "less than" simply because they have blue-collar jobs instead of white-collar. 

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24 minutes ago, ValidEmotions said:

That is a bad-faith question and you know it, StormBird. Everyone has already made it clear that they aren't judging people as "less than" simply because they have blue-collar jobs instead of white-collar. 

 

No, that is a serious question. I don't know who you are referring to as "Everyone" or why you are speaking for "Everyone" but my question is valid. What does that mean, to say that "I know what it is like for all my colleagues who were stuck there?" Stuck where? 

 

And I am not asking YOU, I am asking the person who posted it, what does that mean? What does she mean by that?

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