American Politics

[CrossingStar]

hmm. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tea Party is that group of people who wants to go back to the original constitution?

 

Please help me out here, guys.

[Fuzzbucket]

Nationalise your healthcare. Seriously. If you want to bring costs down - that's how you do it. Health care in the US is currently profit driven. That's not good for the end-user, which in the case of health care is the patients.

 

It's well known that prices are put up when something is being paid for by insurace (I once had a garage quote me two prices to repair a car - one for if I was paying, another much higher one if it was going on insurance), which is part of the reason health care costs are spiralling in the US. You're also very over-medicated in the States, because everyone makes money if people are popping pills (except, of course, the people paying for and taking the pills they don't really need).

 

We've done the comparison before, I'm sure we can do it again if people want to start getting pay statements out. The amount of money I pay towards the NHS costs me less per year than private health insurance costs most people in the States, *and* I have no excess to pay. Plus I know that even if I were to lose my job I'd still be entitled to the same health care. No such thing as medical banckruptcy in the UK. Think on that.

 

Edit to add: old but relevant - even your own *doctors* think the system in the States is screwy.

Too right.

 

On the other hand Tikindi, if you need an operation but it is not deemed a life threatening emergency, you often have to wait a few weeks to get in.  At least how how it is now I have the option to do it now.  (I'm living with a British friend at the moment and I was talking with him about NHS)

I’d far rather wait for an operation that could wait than lose my home over it.

 

I also have a close Australian friend who's brother has cancer.  Because of better funding he could have been operated on in the US, but they don't have the same resources there.

If he had had the money.

 

I'm also living in Russia at the moment and I can see how the government can slow down and needlessly complicate things.

 

That all said, I also see the pros of national health care, cost being the main one.  I'm not one of the Americans screaming SOCIALISM, but I can see the pros and cons from personal experience.

 

I also agree with you about the over medication and the drive for profit.

This SO much. Government CAN slow things down – but so can insurance companies who want to try and get out of paying...

 

[brairtrainer]

Private insurance and health care system is great when it works, but I agree that the times it doesn't work out way the benefits from the time it does.

 

I had to go to the emergency room several times when I was in high school, several for a mysterious illness which turned out to be low blood pressure, one for flipping over my bikes handle bars, another for hyper extending my pinky, and the last one because I fell off a horse and broke my elbow.

 

Insurence covered most of it but the bills were so far apart my parents had to call the hospital to determine what each bill was for. Now the good thing is we never got truely gouged but insurence did try to wash there hands of paying for my trip when I broke my arm.

 

I had broken it when my dad was working, but then he got layed off when his company moved to Mexico. The insurence company tried to say that because my dad no longer worked for them it wasn't covered. The hospital acctually got on our side and told the insurence company they needed to pay because the date I got injured my dad was still working at the company. It took a year to get it payed because of the non-compliant insurence company.

 

The insurence we as a family have now is great, partially because unlike other insurence companies we are able to use two providers and they pick up so much of the bill we rarely see it. My mom is a state employee so gets health care that way and my dad's company has blue cross blue shield. I know some places are messed up but I'd rather what ever government change that is made to health care they allow for employeers to still access private insurence to help entice good employees, and have a state funded system that covers everyone who does not have insurence.

[Fuzzbucket]

Private insurance IDEALLY would only be for extras (we used to have one in Canada that got me TV in my room, a private room (don't want one; it is harder to be monitored !!!) and stuff like that.) But if there's a state system it should cover EVERYONE and "private instead" treatment would be an extra option (as it is in the UK now, much as I don't like it a whole lot !) Otherwise you will always get insurance companies who duck out.

 

You also get - in the UK - private hospitals who do the operations - sure - but when something goes wrong they wash their hands of you and the state system has to pick up the pieces. I am acutely aware of this, as it happened to my mother in law - the private system (which her husband persuaded her to use, as private MUST be better as you PAY for it. ...) messed up her mastectomy big time.

 

The insurance company said that her contract was with the surgeon, not with them, and refused to help at all. The NHS had to step in. Anything "for profit" lets you down whenever it can. Sad but true. They have to keep shareholder dividends up !

Edited November 2, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[Vhale]

Pretty much. And here in the US if you get something life-threatening, your company can fire you in a right to work state, and let you die because they don't want to pay for treatment. We had a guy get cancer. First our HR tried to get him to quit by making his life miserable. They made him switch offices 5 times in a couple weeks, having to move all his stuff up and down stairs while suffering from chemo. Then they finally fired him. So, he couldn't pay for the chemo and died shortly after.

 

There's no point in history where businesses have been known for being charitable. None. They exist to make money, and if something gets in the way of their profit they lash out at it. Obama is a good example. They are sitting on more cash than in the history of the US, but whining because they want more, more, more. And of course, that 47% had good paying jobs before the GLOBAL recession. But apparently they don't deserve the safety net that they paid into when they had good jobs for exactly times such as these.

[TikindiDragon]

Pretty much. And here in the US if you get something life-threatening, your company can fire you in a right to work state, and let you die because they don't want to pay for treatment. We had a guy get cancer. First our HR tried to get him to quit by making his life miserable. They made him switch offices 5 times in a couple weeks, having to move all his stuff up and down stairs while suffering from chemo. Then they finally fired him. So, he couldn't pay for the chemo and died shortly after.

See, I'm pretty sure that would be illegal over here.

[Rosedamai]

See, I'm pretty sure that would be illegal over here.

It's illegal here, too.

[brairtrainer]

See, I'm pretty sure that would be illegal over here.

Its illegal over here as well, however in order to prove it you need to take it court which costs money.

 

I would love to see a safety net for people to report this in these situations that allow their medical bills to be covered while the investiegation is done. I know there was a family in Texas who had to fight a similar situation where both parents were self-employed, had their own insurence and were dropped when their son got cancer and were able to fight to not only get it covered but caused laws that prevented insurence companies from dropping people for expensive conditions. We need a similar safety net to cover people who are fired just to stop people from paying for it.

[AlvinZanger]

Just throwing this out there.

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/11/...-news-benghazi/

[Rosedamai]

Its illegal over here as well, however in order to prove it you need to take it court which costs money.

 

I would love to see a safety net for people to report this in these situations that allow their medical bills to be covered while the investiegation is done. I know there was a family in Texas who had to fight a similar situation where both parents were self-employed, had their own insurence and were dropped when their son got cancer and were able to fight to not only get it covered but caused laws that prevented insurence companies from dropping people for expensive conditions. We need a similar safety net to cover people who are fired just to stop people from paying for it.

I actually don't understand why your health care factors in with companies at all, as everyone who's a citizen here automatically receives national health care. Why are the companies needed?....Granted we do get some health insurance system when you get hired by a company, but that's related to diseases caused by working in that said company(like if the company was negligent and exposed you to harmful chemicals). We also have private health care, but everyone, including foreigners, do get a discount at the national level.

 

Why do the companies play a role at all? I just don't understand the correlation. Gah, I hate sounding so dumb. To clarify, what is the rational for the companies to pay for your health insurance?

Edited November 2, 2012 by ylangylang

[brairtrainer]

I actually don't understand why your health care factors in with companies at all, as everyone who's a citizen here automatically receives national health care. Why are the companies needed?....Granted we do get some health insurance system when you get hired by a company, but that's related to diseases caused by working in that said company(like if the company was negligent and exposed you to harmful chemicals). We also have private health care, but everyone, including foreigners, do get a discount at the national level.

 

Why do the companies play a role at all? I just don't understand the correlation. Gah, I hate sounding so dumb. To clarify, what is the rational for the companies to pay for your health insurance?

Private insurence is expensive and in order to qualify for medicare and medicade you have to fit a certain criteria. Compaines in order to bring in the best workers will offer to cover insurence at a group rate. Employees may or may not have to also pay in to show that they wish to be covered by the insurence.

 

Because companies have the money and want the best workers they get discounts for buying the plans in bulk. At least thats how I understand it.

[Fuzzbucket]

I actually don't understand why your health care factors in with companies at all, as everyone who's a citizen here automatically receives national health care. Why are the companies needed?....Granted we do get some health insurance system when you get hired by a company, but that's related to diseases caused by working in that said company(like if the company was negligent and exposed you to harmful chemicals). We also have private health care, but everyone, including foreigners, do get a discount at the national level.

 

Why do the companies play a role at all? I just don't understand the correlation. Gah, I hate sounding so dumb. To clarify, what is the rational for the companies to pay for your health insurance?

Basically - because without insurance you are screwed. So it is in companies' interests to offer health insurance so as to attract employees. In the US you are NOT automatically covered by the state. That is what makes it so awful when a poor person has a heart attack or cancer... If the companies don't pay - you have to find the money yourself. And many people decided to take a chance. Which is fine till the day you need a few stitches - see the link tikini posted:

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/22/lo...pez22-2009nov22

 

Just throwing this out there.

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/11/...-news-benghazi/

 

Thanks AlvinZanger ! I thought as much. More deliberate obfuscation by those who want to discredit Obama. And don't I seem to recall info at the time suggesting that Bush was forewarned of 9/11 ?

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0517/p01s02-usju.html

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=91651&page=1

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_...piracy_theories

 

May or may not have been true - but it is the kind of thing crooked news channels do to try and gain support for their POV....

Edited November 2, 2012 by fuzzbucket

[brairtrainer]

Basically - because without insurance you are screwed. So it is in companies' interests to offer health insurance so as to attract employees. In the US you are NOT automatically covered by the state. That is what makes it so awful when a poor person has a heart attack or cancer... If the companies don't pay - you have to find the money yourself. And many people decided to take a chance. Which is fine till the day you need a few stitches - see the link tikini posted:

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/22/lo...pez22-2009nov22

Which is why I'd like to see a system that would cover everyone based on a sliding scale in the us (depending on how much money you make before taxes compared to the bill) Where the rich have to pay their whole bill (or pay for insurence to foot it) and people who are poor still have access to health care.

 

I would like the system to still be open to private insurence however because it helps buisnesses provide benefits for their employees which is now showing in the US to be more of the focus than money. Money is a part of the taking a job equation but if there is more flexibility and benefits for a smaller paycheck you're more likely to get someone to take and keep the job.

[Rosedamai]

Basically - because without insurance you are screwed. So it is in companies' interests to offer health insurance so as to attract employees. In the US you are NOT automatically covered by the state. That is what makes it so awful when a poor person has a heart attack or cancer... If the companies don't pay - you have to find the money yourself. And many people decided to take a chance. Which is fine till the day you need a few stitches - see the link tikini posted:

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/22/lo...pez22-2009nov22

The story that is in that link is disgusting. I had a very visceral reaction to that, unfortunately. I mean, $5,000 for a stitch? That's just ridiculous.

 

Private insurence is expensive and in order to qualify for medicare and medicade you have to fit a certain criteria. Compaines in order to bring in the best workers will offer to cover insurence at a group rate. Employees may or may not have to also pay in to show that they wish to be covered by the insurence.

 

Because companies have the money and want the best workers they get discounts for buying the plans in bulk. At least thats how I understand it.

 

So...judging from you and fuzzbucket's post, in the U.S, you guys have no national health care & private healthcare is very expensive->companies pay for it->you get fired, there's no alternative? That's........sickening.

 

I mean, every time I look at the U.S's healthcare system, I'm sorry to say, I get a little bit more disheartened.

 

I would like the system to still be open to private insurence however because it helps buisnesses provide benefits for their employees which is now showing in the US to be more of the focus than money.

*Shrug* we do have some forms of private health care, because there are certain diseases that are unfortunately not covered by national health care, such as certain forms of cancer, some rare heart diseases, etc. I'm not very informed on this matter. They also have special ones for babies and the elderly, and certain ones for the disabled, I think.

 

My family's got one, it helped out when I got hit by a car. Of course, my dad makes a good load of money, so yes, not everyone can afford one.

 

We also have discounts for the elderly, for the very poor, for children with a single parent/no parent, etc.

 

Edited November 2, 2012 by ylangylang

[brairtrainer]

The story that is in that link is disgusting. I had a very visceral reaction to that, unfortunately. I mean, $5,000 for a stitch? That's just ridiculous.

 

 

 

So...judging from you and fuzzbucket's post, in the U.S, you guys have no national health care & private healthcare is very expensive->companies pay for it->you get fired, there's no alternative? That's........sickening.

 

I mean, every time I look at the U.S's healthcare system, I'm sorry to say, I get a little bit more disheartened.

You hit the nail on the head, and unless you fall into the poverty line or are under 18yrs. without insurence the state won't cover you, and even then it can be difficult to find places that accept different plans of medicare and medicade. Also some places don't accept insurence. I couldn't get my glasses replaced because lens crafters don't accept bluecross/blue shield insurence and won't accept out of state public workers insurence.

[Rosedamai]

Also some places don't accept insurence. I couldn't get my glasses replaced because lens crafters don't accept bluecross/blue shield insurence and won't accept out of state public workers insurence.

That's just...stupid. Really stupid. *Shakes head in disgust* is there not a uniform, cover-all system where every single insurance is accepted?

[inlaterdays]

So...judging from you and fuzzbucket's post, in the U.S, you guys have no national health care & private healthcare is very expensive->companies pay for it->you get fired, there's no alternative? That's........sickening.

 

Kind of. (And yes, I find it sickening too, and I live here.)

 

There' no national health coverage. It's difficult to get/afford treatment (which is 100% privatized) without insurance. Insurance is hideously expensive, and most corporations buy benefits packets (health, vision, and dental insurance) as enticements to employees. Some people will even take a pay cut when switching jobs to get a better benefits package. Not all jobs offer full benefits.

 

Buying insurance as a private person is through the roof expensive, which is why a lot of people who freelance or work part time end up with no coverage.

 

On top of that, the prices of medical care (especially emergency medical care) are way over inflated, so that the hospitals, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and everyone involved can all take their cut.

 

And then the same insurance you've been paying into will try to find every trick in the book to avoid paying for treatments they are actually supposed to cover.

 

It's awful. Everyone knows that insurance is a huge racket, but it's hard to survive without it.

[brairtrainer]

It is, I'm just glad I actually have good insurence now. When I fell at school the hospital tried to tell me that I was responsible for all of it because I didn't have my health card on me (I was transported by ambulence and my purse was in my dorm.) When my dad and I finally proved I was indeed covered the entire bill was footed by insurence under the coverage I have for ER x-rays are completely covered as is transportation in an ambulence (my parents were surprised at that normally riding in one will cost you $100-500) as well as the fact that it was a class at school which me being a full time student placed at the same level as injury at a job for coverage. In the end we only paid for my crutches since my moms insurence picked up the rest.

[Fuzzbucket]

That's just...stupid. Really stupid. *Shakes head in disgust* is there not a uniform, cover-all system where every single insurance is accepted?

No.

[CrossingStar]

That's just...stupid. Really stupid. *Shakes head in disgust* is there not a uniform, cover-all system where every single insurance is accepted?

In the US? I don't think so. If there is I'm not aware of it.

 

That's why I'm really worried; times are tough and if I can't get a job I'm gonna be screwed.

[skauble]

Better than expected jobs report today. Even the unemployment rate uptick from 7.8% to 7.9% is being seen as a positive because it's the result of more people re-entering the job force - usually a sign of rising confidence. Also, the fact that it stayed under 8% shows that it falling below that mark wasn't a one time fluke.

 

Of course, growth is still slow and lots of people are still hurting. But if anyone's interested, I read a really fascinating article about the history of U.S. recoveries from financial meltdowns of this size and a look at the length of time it can take to recover from them: Sorry, U.S. Recoveries Really Aren’t Different

[Vhale]

Embassy Attacks That Nobody Cared About (because they weren't politically expedient):

 

Paris, France, September 13, 2001: Four men were arrested in Rotterdam on conspiracy to plant a suicide bomber in the U.S. embassy in Paris. The NATO headquarters in Brussels was also targeted. The plot was discovered in July 2001 when a conspirator named Djamel Beghal was arrested in Dubai for passport fraud. He confessed after an interrogation. All the conspirators were part of a small satellite of Al-Qaeda.

 

Karachi, Pakistan, June 14, 2002, February 28, 2003, March 15, 2004, and March 2, 2006:The string of bombings and attempted bombings outside the U.S. consult in Karachi were thought to be in retaliation for the War on Terror in Afghanistan, and later Iraq. The first bomb in June 2002 was a suicide bomber, who killed 12 and injured 51 people. In February 2003, a gunman killed two police officer and injured five others outside the consulate. In March 2004, an attempted bombing was stopped when police discovered 200 gallons of liquid explosives in the back of a truck. In March 2006, another suicide bomber killed six people outside a nearby Marriott Hotel.

 

Tashkent, Uzbekistan, July 30, 2004: The U.S. and Israeli embassies were targeted by suicide bombers. Two security guards were killed.

 

Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, December 6, 2004: Militants breached the outer wall of the U.S. consulate and began shooting, but did not enter the consulate. Five civilians and the gunmen were killed. Ten people were wounded.

 

Damascus, Syria, September 12, 2006: Three gunmen were killed after they tossed grenades over the embassy's outer wall and a car bomb exploded outside the embassy. A Syrian security guard and a Chinese diplomat also died.

 

Athens, Greece, January 12, 2007: A rocket-propelled grenade was fired into the front of the U.S. embassy around 6 am in the morning. No one was killed or hurt. A Greek terrorist group called "Revolutionary Struggle" claimed responsibility.

 

Istanbul, Turkey, July 9, 2008: Kurdish Turks open fired around 11 am, killing six people and injuring one. The three men had suspected Al-Qaeda links, but this was never proven.

 

San'a, Yemen, September 7, 2008: 19 people died and at least 16 were injured when a group of men disguised at police attacked the outer security rim of the U.S. embassy. Al-Qaeda affiliate Islamic Jihad of Yemen claimed responsibility.

Source

 

In the US, tens of thousands die each year because of no health care. I've seen estimates of 45,000 but I wouldn't doubt it's higher. One of the big proponents of it switched to being for, after seeing people lined up in old farming stalls just trying to get things like teeth fixed. I saw a heart breaking documentary about a very brave man that used to do work in Africa bringing in health care, now most of his work is in the US. They go around to various US cities and Medical providers volunteer a day and do work for free. Most of the people they serve have jobs, but still can't afford things like glasses, root canals. Basic things. The guy that runs it actually lives in an old school that the city lets him rent for 1 a month and makes no profit, showers outdoors with a hose. Amazing person.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Vhale

[CrossingStar]

In the US, tens of thousands die each year because of no health care. I've seen estimates of 45,000 but I wouldn't doubt it's higher. One of the big proponents of it switched to being for, after seeing people lined up in old farming stalls just trying to get things like teeth fixed. I saw a heart breaking documentary about a very brave man that used to do work in Africa bringing in health care, now most of his work is in the US. They go around to various US cities and Medical providers volunteer a day and do work for free. Most of the people they serve have jobs, but still can't afford things like glasses, root canals. Basic things. The guy that runs it actually lives in an old school that the city lets him rent for 1 a month and makes no profit, showers outdoors with a hose. Amazing person.

A truly heartbreaking thing. Personally, I think the US should mind it's own darn business and restrain from all the unnecessary spending. Why are we not out of Afghanistan and Iraq yet? Why were we involved in them in the first place? They aren't our fights.

 

That's only one of the reasons people are suffering in the US. What about obesity? So many Americans are obese that it's insane! Plus, plenty of people are going hungry as well! I really hate that.

 

If this is too heated, I apologize. I tried to keep specific names out of it. But these are awful things that should never happen.

[Kestra15]

So...judging from you and fuzzbucket's post, in the U.S, you guys have no national health care & private healthcare is very expensive->companies pay for it->you get fired, there's no alternative? That's........sickening.

 

I mean, every time I look at the U.S's healthcare system, I'm sorry to say, I get a little bit more disheartened.

Hence why I can never understand why people believe private health-care policies >> national health cover. It honestly just sounds selfish, small-minded or ignorant.

I saw a heart breaking documentary about a very brave man that used to do work in Africa bringing in health care, now most of his work is in the US. They go around to various US cities and Medical providers volunteer a day and do work for free. Most of the people they serve have jobs, but still can't afford things like glasses, root canals. Basic things. The guy that runs it actually lives in an old school that the city lets him rent for 1 a month and makes no profit, showers outdoors with a hose. Amazing person.

Please PM me if you find out which documentary it was, or who runs it, as that's the kind of work I'm interested in.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Kestra15

[Fuzzbucket]

Not the one she meant but very interesting. Free to view today only.

 

And here is a wonderful project that shows the BETTER side of many people in the US.

 

For those Americans who doubt how much more everything costs when it is insurance based, may I refer you to your own PBS.

 

http://www.pbs.org/programs/money-medicine/