American Politics

[skauble]

Although I really hate it when people try to discredit someone and jump down their throats just because of how they worded a sentence...

 

...this one made me lol: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc0n9qrW...8amio1_1280.jpg

 

I think if Obama had said the same thing the internet wouldn't have cared, but Obama is also globally much more well-liked so there you go. It took me a while to try and figure out exactly what people were making fun of in the sentence Romney said because I would have said the exact same thing.

Part of the reason that Romney gets poked at for that, where Obama might not, is because of both his and his party's policies about and views towards women. Yes, the odd phrasing caught people's attention, but I think that it's partly because it's ability to be turned as a phrase that plays off of the idea of keeping women separate and in their place actually reflected some of the attitude of his answer.

 

ROMNEY: Thank you. And important topic, and one which I learned a great deal about, particularly as I was serving as governor of my state, because I had the chance to pull together a cabinet and all the applicants seemed to be men.

 

And I — and I went to my staff, and I said, “How come all the people for these jobs are — are all men.” They said, “Well, these are the people that have the qualifications.” And I said, “Well, gosh, can’t we — can’t we find some — some women that are also qualified?”

First off, it's kind of hard to believe that zero women wanted any of those jobs. Especially since it's now being reported that enough women wanted some of those jobs that women's groups got together before the election and gathered all of that info. So the idea that, thank goodness, he made sure to go hunt down all of these women so that they could finally get the chance they'd never try to get on their own is kind of condescending.

 

ROMENY: Now one of the reasons I was able to get so many good women to be part of that team was because of our recruiting effort. But number two, because I recognized that if you’re going to have women in the workforce that sometimes you need to be more flexible. My chief of staff, for instance, had two kids that were still in school.

 

She said, I can’t be here until 7 or 8 o’clock at night. I need to be able to get home at 5 o’clock so I can be there for making dinner for my kids and being with them when they get home from school. So we said fine. Let’s have a flexible schedule so you can have hours that work for you.

Now, I want to be clear that I believe that he's correct that job flexibility is very important issue to women. And it's definitely true that women often need to be the ones to consider when to get the kids and preparing meals. But, again, it comes down, in part, to party affiliation. Because when you're in the party that often vilifies single mothers, and elements of your members assert that women don't belong in the workplace, then you have to be careful how much you stress making sure women can get home so that they can get dinner on the table, because that's actually a stereotype that's been used to hold women back.

 

That can be a fine line to walk, but they totally brought that trouble and distrust on themselves.

 

ROMNEY: We’re going to have to have employers in the new economy, in the economy I’m going to bring to play, that are going to be so anxious to get good workers they’re going to be anxious to hire women. In the — in the last women have lost 580,000 jobs. That’s the net of what’s happened in the last four years. We’re still down 580,000 jobs. I mentioned 31/2 million women, more now in poverty than four years ago.

 

What we can do to help young women and women of all ages is to have a strong economy, so strong that employers that are looking to find good employees and bringing them into their workforce and adapting to a flexible work schedule that gives women opportunities that they would otherwise not be able to afford.

A lot of women had problems with this answer because it didn't really address why women have problems with employment equality. It was more like he was saying that he would make the economy so great that there would be so many jobs that employers would have to hire women. But to a lot of us the problem is that we want an equal shot at jobs and fair pay even when the economy is wobbly. Gender inequality shouldn't only disappear when we have so many jobs that hiring women is a necessity.

 

So even though women are looking carefully at all statements about them in this election, there's a history that a lot of women feel they have with the Republican Party that does make things they say more potentially harmful because many of us feel that they've really been a bigger part of the problem than the solution.

 

I'm not sure how Americans think Romney is going to help their economy since the world is not going to look favorably upon the US for electing Romney. I'm sure the economy tanking even more sharply when Bush was elected into office for the second time while the whole world face-palmed at the US was no coincidence. What countries could have possibly felt comfortable investing in another country that thought having Bush in office again was a good idea? I'm sure the global reaction will be similar with Romney.

 

We've gotten so much conflicting information about and accounts of our economy that I think a lot of Americans are finding it kind of hard to get a strong grasp of everything that's going on.

[brairtrainer]

I have not seen the debate yet (was working late on hw for school) but I'll honestly say from reading this forum Romney seems to be reminding me of John Kerry. By this I mean saying things to try to get the popular vote that were not true, like not supporting the war when he voted for it, etc.

 

We don't need people like that running our country.

[demonicvampiregirl]

What has God got to do with politics?

Exactly God/religion none of that stuff has any place in politics. If you are seriously basing your vote on someones religious views you need to just not vote in my opinion. You are avoiding everything just to base a decision on a religion which in my opinion is very stupid. (a major part in why I hate religion and anything to do with it because it gets so used in politics and as a reason to hate.)

 

 

^

 

This is the real reason why I think Romney needs to be kept OUT of office like I think it was Sock who said he wants money not peoples freedom. Did you read the post on the REPUBLICANS trying to limit democrats (or mostly democrats) voting in democrat favorite areas? That is not a party you want in any form of power. Someone who is willing to take away your rights is not something people should really want.

[inlaterdays]

What has God got to do with politics?

Nothing at all. We are supposed to have separation of church and state here, but some voters seem to forget that. Mentioning God is not germane at all to a political debate.

 

And I can't help it - the "binders full of women" quote cracks me up, too. What really bothers me is the underlying sense that he really does see women as objects rather than people; as an annoyance he has to get signatures from in order to assume the throne he wants.

 

I'm greatly encouraged by all the "Republicans for Obama" bumper stickers I've seen popping up in this very red state. Also "Women for Obama" and just plain "Obama/Biden 2012".

 

No Romney sticker sightings. Not a single one. Gives me hope.

[Vhale]

If God was in politics then that whole, Thou Shall Not Lie, Covet, Steal thing would have buried quite a few people already.

 

As for what Obama has done, it's been said before, and will be ignored due to hate, fear and the desire to kill more brown people in the Middle East, but.

"Unemployment has dropped from 10.2% to 7.8%

The stock market has doubled since the stimulus.

5 million private sector jobs have been created since 2009.

GDP has been growing since 2009.

Americans net worth is up $10 trillion dollars since 2009.

Auto sales are up. Retail sales are up. Home sales are up.

Bin Laden is dead, and GM is alive.

Obama has done a very good job."

 

It comes back to years of people saying all politicians are bad. I don't think people care what the ones they elect are doing. The guy I mentioned who had no idea who Ron Paul is, I bet he could tell you the entire Cowboys starting lineup. And he does have some interest in politics. But he has no interest in learning about it on his own time. So, what then? It may be that people could get facts if they wanted to, but it appears that quite a few won't make the effort. So, they are left to things like the debates. And if that is true, it really doesn't matter how much either candidate lies, because people will never take the initiative to see if it's true. And that laziness doesn't give much hope to third parties. If people can't check out their own candidate, they sure won't check out a new one

 

[prairiecrow]

I was in a Pagan/Wiccan chat room while the debate was on, and when Romney said something to the effect of "We're all children of the same God", I'm pretty sure you could have heard our howls of derision in Australia.

 

Dear Mr. Romney: Unless the God you're referring to is Cernunnos, Apollo, or perhaps Osiris... NO. There are plenty more religions than just Christianity, and if you don't know that, how on earth could you be expected to represent the non-Christians and non-Jews you'll supposedly be serving as President of the United States?

 

You swept those people under the rug by dragging your religion into this and strongly implying that only YOUR flavour of religion matters. I don't think folks are going to forget that; or at least, I certainly hope they don't.

Edited October 17, 2012 by prairiecrow

[skauble]

HuffPost Live is running a debate with third party candidates Virgil Goode, Andre Barnett, and Rocky Anderson if anyone wants to go and check it out.

[brairtrainer]

got to watch the last bit of that. I'm gonna have to make time to watch the debate later, as I'm quite astonded by what people were saying Romney said (violence was caused by single parent homes? >.<)

 

I have lost all hope for the republican party.

[lightbird]

I'm quite amused by the Binders Full of Women thing, too.

 

Also, Get Details on Romney's Tax Plan. :'D

Edited October 17, 2012 by lightbird

[philpot123]

Exactly God/religion none of that stuff has any place in politics. If you are seriously basing your vote on someones religious views you need to just not vote in my opinion. You are avoiding everything just to base a decision on a religion which in my opinion is very stupid. (a major part in why I hate religion and anything to do with it because it gets so used in politics and as a reason to hate.)

If you have religious beliefs, it WILL affect your voting choices, whether you admit it or not.

 

 

 

In response to last night's debate... LOL I just hate these guys more and more the more they talk! To quote a good friend of mine,

 

"I missed the debate last night, but I hear constitutional government lost."

 

Or another...

 

"It really doesn't matter who won. We lost."

[prairiecrow]

If you have religious beliefs, it WILL affect your voting choices, whether you admit it or not.

Yes, and I reserve the right to side-eye any candidate who presumes to call me a child of HIS God, which is manifestly NOT my God, or who implies that his God is the only God that counts.

 

Someone that bigoted is not someone I'd want serving as President of a country that is multi-cultural and multi-religious.

Edited October 17, 2012 by prairiecrow

[philpot123]

Yes, and I reserve the right to side-eye any candidate who presumes to call me a child of HIS God, which is manifestly NOT my God, or who implies that his God is the only God that counts.

 

Someone that bigoted is not someone I'd want serving as President of a country that is multi-cultural and multi-religious.

My point exactly! you're perfectly justified in doing so.

[inlaterdays]

If you have religious beliefs, it WILL affect your voting choices, whether you admit it or not.

Please don't make sweeping generalizations. That is not true. I have religious beliefs, and I keep them separate from my socioplitical beliefs. VERY separate. I know others who do the same thing.

[philpot123]

Please don't make sweeping generalizations. That is not true. I have religious beliefs, and I keep them separate from my socioplitical beliefs. VERY separate. I know others who do the same thing.

Your religious beliefs affect your entire worldview, your worldview affects your political leanings in some way. There is no compartmentalization.

[inlaterdays]

Your religious beliefs affect your entire worldview, your worldview affects your political leanings in some way. There is no compartmentalization.

Your brain may work that way, but mine does not. Trust me, I am much better acquainted with how I think and why I think that way than you are.

 

Many people are able to compartmentalize successfully; e.g. not letting their mood at work affect their mood when they get home.

 

Politics and religion are separate things, and they are actually required to be that way. If you're not doing that, you're not separating church and state. That is the purpose of the Establishment Clause to the First Amendment.

[philpot123]

I still believe that whether you realize it or not, you religious beliefs affect how you view social issues, which will affect how you cast your vote.

 

 

There's plenty of argument to be waged about the original intent of the Establishment clause.

 

 

OK, I've done some (not much) research on Ron Paul. I don't care too much for the guy from what little I've seen. (He's not pro-choice, as his views are "Life starts at conception." He's against universal healthcare, but supports making the current system more affordable. He's hostile against illegal immigrants...) Can anyone tell me anything else about this guy? I know he's all for "Less gov't control" but it doesn't seem like it. He just seems like another religious Republican in sheep's clothing to me... :/

 

Ron Paul is personally pro-life, but supports state's rights to decide regulations on abortion. He advocates overturning Roe v. Wade because the national government has no constitutional right to regulate such things.

 

He's against universal healthcare because he thinks the federal government should basically be gone. Get rid of unconstitutional government agencies, give the states back their rights, and let it go. He's FAR from a religious republican. His political views are borderline libertarian. That's what I like most about him. He's personally religious and pro-life, but that doesn't affect the policies that he advocates.

Edited October 17, 2012 by philpot123

[kiffren]

There is no need to attack each other.

 

As for religious beliefs clouding political beliefs...I'd say it's more your morality that gives sway to your political leanings. For most religious people, morality comes (at least partly) from religion.

[philpot123]

That much I know, but... It still sounds too good to be true, IMHO. I just... There's something I don't like about him. I don't know what, but I still get the whole "wolf in sheep's clothing" feel from him. I don't want to be biased, but at the same time... Eh. Since you like him, can you tell me about this article?

 

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/profiles/...er-Ron-Paul.htm

 

It's biased, I know, but I need some straightforward answers about what could happen under his presidency - I'm not in the state to be trying to figure out roundabout articles that are hinting at somethings and not at others...

 

Thanks, BTW. Any information is appreciated.

Well, that article is giving hypothetical worst-case scenarios in the event that the states were given back constitutional rights. The fantastic thing is that things of that nature would never happen or last. The state governments are more accessible to the people than the federal government, so the opinions of the people would have a HUGE sway on policies. Can you really imagine many states outlawing sodomy again? Can you imagine many people remaining in a state that did so?

[Vhale]

Well, a correlation to a sodomy law could be the transvaginal ultrasound laws. And while that was defeated in Virginia, it was not in Texas. Santorum was also pretty blunt on his feelings on the matter, yet he was a serious candidate. So, I wouldn't put it past some deep red states to do just that. Every state? Certainly not. But one or two... I'm afraid that the, It will never happen reasoning will make people complacent and it could. After all, no one thought alcohol would be made illegal either. And Todd legitimate rape Akin is still on the Science commitee, isn't he?

[philpot123]

Well, a correlation to a sodomy law could be the transvaginal ultrasound laws. And while that was defeated in Virginia, it was not in Texas. Santorum was also pretty blunt on his feelings on the matter, yet he was a serious candidate. So, I wouldn't put it past some deep red states to do just that. Every state? Certainly not. But one or two... I'm afraid that the, It will never happen reasoning will make people complacent and it could. After all, no one thought alcohol would be made illegal either. And Todd legitimate rape Akin is still on the Science commitee, isn't he?

If such laws were passed against popular opinion, that popular opinion would be reflected in the elections in an ideal scenario. If the states are given back rights that the government has taken control of, the people would (hopefully) realize fairly quickly that it's up to THEM to shut down ridiculous legislation. As it stands, there's a lot of space between policy making and the people. My vote doesn't matter in the least, because Romney will win my state and get all of my state's electoral votes. So even if I was to vote for Obama, Johnson, or write in Paul or something silly like that, it wouldn't matter in the slightest. My opinion is meaningless.

[Obscure_Trash]

Jill Stein Arrested Before Hofstra Debate, Campaign Reports  The Huffington Post covered it in it's Huffpost Green section.  There was a link to it on the front page of the HP.  Also covered on the Politico website - Green Party ticket arrested at debate, both of which are high traffic sites.

 

We'll see if it hits other media soon.

I have to say, I'm impressed it made it anywhere. I've been impressed with huffington before. I was actually surprised it wasn't up there, so not too surprising it did end up there. xP

 

The internet has seized on the bolded part and there's actually a pretty hilarious and surprisingly active Tumbler account for it: Binder Full of Women.

 

I think my favorite is Captian of Finance...Binder of Women

 

My professor referenced binders full of women during class. XD

 

I think my favorite is the Boromir's "One Does Not Simply". =p

 

Although I really hate it when people try to discredit someone and jump down their throats just because of how they worded a sentence...

 

...this one made me lol: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc0n9qrW...8amio1_1280.jpg

 

I think if Obama had said the same thing the internet wouldn't have cared, but Obama is also globally much more well-liked so there you go. It took me a while to try and figure out exactly what people were making fun of in the sentence Romney said because I would have said the exact same thing.

 

Well, I know for me, it's not how he said it - it is what he said. If you have to go specifically ask for qualified women to do things so that you can look like you're for equality...you're doin' it wrong.

 

My opinion is meaningless.

 

Another problem I have with how the current system works. D:

 

Also, Get Details on Romney's Tax Plan. :'D

 

You beat me to it. x3 I admit, I giggled, although it is actually quite scary.

Edited October 17, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[~Kat~]

Read the article below on

 

National Employment Law Project and his good paying jobs. It is at odds with his record so they say.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/o...26pLid%3D221438

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2012 by ~Kat~

[demonicvampiregirl]

If you have religious beliefs, it WILL affect your voting choices, whether you admit it or not. government lost."

Thankfully I have none. You can thank all the politicians who use it to argue for anything, the hatred people use it for and those religious nuts out there. (To clarify I mean people like Westboro Baptist Church)

 

I don't think it has any place in politics and shouldn't even be allowed to be used as a form of argument period.

 

As for religious beliefs clouding political beliefs...I'd say it's more your morality that gives sway to your political leanings. For most religious people, morality comes (at least partly) from religion.

 

I'd say this is more true. I know my mom is a Christian but she keeps her political views and religion views separate as far as I know. I may be entirely wrong cuz I'm half afraid to ask her things. :/ (I don't think she even knows I don't believe in any form of religion anymore even though I'd dropped hints before.)

Edited October 17, 2012 by demonicvampiregirl

[inlaterdays]

Read the article below on

 

National Employment Law Project and his good paying jobs. It is at odds with his record so they say.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/o...26pLid%3D221438

And Mitt Romney's Massachusetts ranked *47th* in job creation.

 

Mass. is also leading in support for Obama. They've dealt with Romney before and have good reasons for not wanting to deal with him again.

[demonicvampiregirl]

And Mitt Romney's Massachusetts ranked *47th* in job creation.

 

Mass. is also leading in support for Obama. They've dealt with Romney before and have good reasons for not wanting to deal with him again.

I think if one state that dealt with a presidential candidate and can come out opposing them like this it goes to show they aren't going to do any good. :/ Hopefully people see that and don't vote him in.