American Politics

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

McConnell's reelection looks suspicious, they've been saying. More votes than there are registered Republicans.

[Fuzzbucket]

Why does this not surprise me.... keep an eye on him.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book

[trystan]

does't surprise me either. *sigh*

 

but still - wow.

[Bigbite]

I have ever  since he was given the presidency believed Trump was a Russian agent.

With his insurrection and defiance of election norms, it seems like he is doing his best to bring down American democracy.

His story, and what he tried to do, in the next 20 years will shake America to it's very foundation.

[trystan]

7 minutes ago, Bigbite said:

With his insurrection and defiance of election norms, it seems like he is doing his best to bring down American democracy.

my understanding, back from 2017 - the whole point of Steven Bannon on trump's staff was to take down our government from the inside.

 

i apologise for my lack of links, i'm heading to work in a couple of minutes....

[purplehaze]

Registered Republicans are fleeing the party in record numbers.

Is it any wonder? But they leave behind the kooks, the Fascists and the conspiracy theorists with no balance. And those left are even more determined to disenfranchise voters who are likely to vote Democratic.

 

I am registered Republican more for local issues than national ones. Our Democratic party in Maryland is so dominant that they need a little balance. Still, I am considering changing, as I am truly ashamed of the direction that the Republican party has taken. I am also much more aware of the history of voter suppression and racist policies within the party.

[soullessheartofsteel]

16 hours ago, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

McConnell's reelection looks suspicious, they've been saying. More votes than there are registered Republicans.

 

Like, there are people who aren't registered to any party but consider themselves conservatives/Republicans, and there are also people who otherwise disagree with his politics but are single-issue voters. As well as those who don't really care and have just been so used to McConnell being governor that they don't want a newcomer. Still, politicians know how this works, as do reporters who write about politics. So if there's a discrepancy that can't be explained by those in-betweeners, and the rumors aren't just mud-slinging, then it's worth taking a look at. Are there any sources on this you can give me? Looking up McConnell-related news just turns up stuff about the 2020 election and the impeachment/conviction. I'm not local to Kentucky so the almighty algorithm doesn't show me news from there.

 

49 minutes ago, purplehaze said:

Registered Republicans are fleeing the party in record numbers.

Is it any wonder? But they leave behind the kooks, the Fascists and the conspiracy theorists with no balance. And those left are even more determined to disenfranchise voters who are likely to vote Democratic.

 

The Republican party has sealed its own fate in allowing Donald Trump to become the face of their party. They might not even need to split into that Patriot Party they've been talking about if all the moderate Republicans leave first. I'm curious as to what this'll mean for the Democratic party. They've always been center-left, and I do wonder how a sudden influx of center-right members will affect their policies, if at all. They pride themselves on being the big-tent party, but it's going to be difficult getting center-right people and farther-left people to work cohesively.

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

Found it: 

Alison Greene (@GrassrootsSpeak) https://twitter.com/GrassrootsSpeak/status/1336713647050153984?s=20

 

 

Be warned that the linked news articles use some obscene words to describe Trump (from a quote of his that you very likely heard before).

 

I don't know how accurate her analysis is. I'm math-impaired. But there's been too many illegal and immoral things that happened to not consider the possibility.

[Astreya]

Out of curiosity, why using these voting machines in the first place? I think the good old paper + pen voting should be much less error prone anyway.

[purpledragonclaw]

7 hours ago, purplehaze said:

Registered Republicans are fleeing the party in record numbers.

Is it any wonder? But they leave behind the kooks, the Fascists and the conspiracy theorists with no balance. And those left are even more determined to disenfranchise voters who are likely to vote Democratic.

 

I am registered Republican more for local issues than national ones. Our Democratic party in Maryland is so dominant that they need a little balance. Still, I am considering changing, as I am truly ashamed of the direction that the Republican party has taken. I am also much more aware of the history of voter suppression and racist policies within the party.

 

Thank you for bringing this up because I meant to mention this, but the month has been so crazy it's slipped my mind. For those sane Republicans left, those who do honor religion, conservative values, and Moderates, get out while you still can. The party can't be salvaged, it's fully behind Trump and Greene. This is the new party. May I suggest Independent? The party of Reagan is dead. 

 

@Astreya It's much easier to blame losses on the technical system than blame pen and paper since it's less error-prone. Please view our 2020 presidential election as an example. Seriously, though, after the 2000 election and the "dangling chads" I think that's when we started to embrace electronic voting machines. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

2 hours ago, Astreya said:

Out of curiosity, why using these voting machines in the first place? I think the good old paper + pen voting should be much less error prone anyway.

 

Corruption. They can be hacked. In fact, they brought voting machines to Def Con in 2017 and 2018 just to see how fast they could be hacked. The answer was minutes. Children could hack into them. 

Some voting machines give you a paper so you can make sure your vote was correctly entered. Others don't.

[Astreya]

2 hours ago, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

Some voting machines give you a paper so you can make sure your vote was correctly entered. Others don't.

I see. But even if they give you a paper, who says that the paper matches what is transferred electronically?

 

@purpledragonclaw

What are "dangling chads"?

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

1 minute ago, Astreya said:

I see. But even if they give you a paper, who says that the paper matches what is transferred electronically?

 

@purpledragonclaw

What are "dangling chads"?

As I understand it, it gives you a tracking number you can check online. We don't have those voting machines where I am. And a few states do mail-in ballots exclusively is what I've read.

 

*looks it up* The 'dangling chads' or 'hanging chads' refers to punch cards like they used to put in some of the first computers. The chad is the round bit of paper punched out. So that would mean the punch card was read incorrectly because the hole wasn't properly punched out? 

 

 

[trystan]

4 minutes ago, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

*looks it up* The 'dangling chads' or 'hanging chads' refers to punch cards like they used to put in some of the first computers. The chad is the round bit of paper punched out. So that would mean the punch card was read incorrectly because the hole wasn't properly punched out? 

correct.

in the case of the 2000 election, the bit of paper wasn't completely punched out all the way round, so that it was still hanging from the paper ballot.  which raised the question if the entire chad needed to be completely punched out.... or was it enough to "count" because it was 98% punched out.

[purpledragonclaw]

I apologize, I take for granted living through that and assuming everyone knows what that means because it was such a scandal at the time, Astreya, but @trystan is correct (thank you!) That was the last election I can remember that didn't use electronic voting machines, and no one wanted a repeat of that election, so electronic voting machines were looked at instead. @Long_Before_Sunrise there was some footage of the electronic machines changing votes from Biden to Trump from last year, I think Georgia had a problem with it, it illustrates your point perfectly about how those machines can be hacked and nefarious things done to them that are very hard to trace.

Edited January 31, 2021 by purpledragonclaw

[trystan]

you're welcome!

[Astreya]

@Long_Before_Sunrise

@trystan

@purpledragonclaw

Thank you all for the explanation!

 

That's interesting, particularly that these things are so error prone in the first place, even if one doesn't even consider purposely messingwith them!

[trystan]

12 minutes ago, Astreya said:

Thank you all for the explanation!

you're welcome!

 

my younger daughter was watching a show once, and in a halloween episode, a character dressed up as hanging chad.  as my daughter had no idea what it was - she was born in 2001 - i filled her in.  and as she said tonight, it was before her time  

[soullessheartofsteel]

11 hours ago, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

Found it: 

Alison Greene (@GrassrootsSpeak) https://twitter.com/GrassrootsSpeak/status/1336713647050153984?s=20

 

 

Be warned that the linked news articles use some obscene words to describe Trump (from a quote of his that you very likely heard before).

 

I don't know how accurate her analysis is. I'm math-impaired. But there's been too many illegal and immoral things that happened to not consider the possibility.

 

Huh, that was an interesting read. I can't say I'll wholly trust everything until a formal report comes out, but it'll be interesting to see the scandal that unfolds from this if her analysis turns out to be accurate. I'm gonna be honest, I usually distrust any claims of fraud, even on stuff coming from my end of the political spectrum, just because there generally isn't much correlation between party affiliation, education, and likelihood to fall victim to conspiratorial thinking. But I'll be keeping a pin in it and keeping an eye out for news on the matter if it ever reaches platforms beyond Twitter and RawStory. I doubt a voting-machine company would have incentive to deliberately skew votes one way or another per a party's request + bribe (or just leave it vulnerable to hackers for the same reason), simply because the expose that would inevitably follow would force the company to shutter, and it's one of the few instances where capitalism would encourage ethical behavior, if for an entirely self-centered reason. I am willing to believe they are utter garbage, though; it's just a byproduct of trying to do something on the cheap as fast as possible, headed by people who don't know a good product when they see it. A lot of government officials are quite technologically incompetent, though that's not entirely their fault given how quickly computing has advanced and the fact that computer lessons weren't a thing back in the 70s and 80s when a lot of these people were in K12. But that leads to a lot of technological vulnerabilities because it doesn't occur to them to invest in the brainpower to keep their tech safe. Thank you for the source though.

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

4 hours ago, soullessheartofsteel said:

just because there generally isn't much correlation between party affiliation, education, and likelihood to fall victim to conspiratorial thinking.

There's not, but people sure want to believe there is. I've seen so many comments punching down on stereotypical rural people and blind eyes turned to the wealthier types.

 

However, Kentucky is... Kentucky. You've read about the Australian creationist, Ken Ham (and his son), who bilked them good with The Ark Encounter 'attraction.' It's really interesting if you like looking at wood, a few screens set on loop, wood, lumber, an occasional statue, carpentry, animal sounds on loop, wood... did I mention it's mostly wood? The Encounter's biggest days was the opening when the atheist organizations protested it and Bill Nye toured it.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Long_Before_Sunrise

[soullessheartofsteel]

17 hours ago, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

There's not, but people sure want to believe there is. I've seen so many comments punching down on stereotypical rural people and blind eyes turned to the wealthier types.

 

Oh for sure, which is something I really hate because poor people in the city have more in common with poor people in the countryside than either of them do with wealthy people. And to make fun of people for a lack of infrastructure in their area and neglect from their government is... really messed up. Especially because a lot of them are convinced to vote against their own self interests.

 

Yeah, I do know that Kentucky's elections are mostly decided by single-issue voters, and a lot of people don't care if their state is now 49th in education (and other things) under 35 years of McConnell, if he opposes same-sex marriage and abortions, it's good enough for them. I've heard of Ken Ham and his creationist museum/attraction, only because Bill Nye debated Ken Ham, but I didn't know it was in Kentucky, or that it's actually still around.

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

The Ark Encounter is still there. It's a money pit they're not willing to admit is a money pit.

[BlackMagicRose]

It's insane. I know a lot of people who are Trump supporters and I pretty much keep my mouth shut around them because the few times I have engaged in a discussion they've flown off the handle and just spewed more hatred and lies. I don't know how you can have proof of him saying and doing all these things but they still claim it's fake news?!?!? Biden is trying to repair the damage done and at least he is taking Covid-19 seriously. And he has rejoined some things that Trump pulled out of. I hope President Biden can get the drilling in Alaska deal that Trump signed into order abolished. I guess Trump's legal team even quit on him the other day. My Dad watches CNN a good part of the day. This Marjorie Taylor Greene person needs to go too since she's off her nut. The QAnon thing is pretty scary if you read the Wikipedia article on it.

[soullessheartofsteel]

Yeah, his legal team did just walk out, and this is just one news source talking about it, there are other articles from other sites/channels/journals others here might prefer on the internet. I'd heard some people mention it but I didn't know that it had actually happened. Giuliani's not a part of that team, apparently he's still not talking to Trump. This is going to be interesting.

 

And I know that things are obviously very busy in the Capitol between the impeachment trial, the flurry of executive orders Biden's signing to undo Trump's, the messy vaccine rollout, and Republicans resisting all of this every step of the way, but I would really like somebody to undo Trump's tax plan, and perhaps provide some more substantial economic relief like basically every other country is doing. Raising the federal minimum wage to $15 would also be nice (*nerd voice* though technically it should be $17 adjusting for inflation since the Fight for $15 movement began in 2012, but...). It wouldn't really affect me, living in a big city that's already made movements to increase wages, but for the millions of people stuck in terrible states that still want to pay them $7.25/hr, and even less in some situations (like tipped positions and jobs created specifically for disabled individuals on SSI), it would do a lot. There's bipartisan support for it, especially after the pandemic began, and really, wages haven't kept up with inflation at all. If federal minimum wage kept up with economic growth, it would be like $19.33 right now, which is just an insane thing to think about, because I can only just imagine how much easier things would be for everyone if we got paid that much. It wouldn't fix everything, because it does have to go hand in hand with taxing all those billionaires, but it would do a lot in helping the economy recover, as well as rekindling faith in the federal government, which is something the federal government should want if they don't want more QAnon nuts taking office on Capitol Hill like Greene and Boebart.

[Fuzzbucket]

Meanwhile:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/26/politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-democrats-violence/index.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/01/mitch-mcconnell-conspiracy-theories-cancer-marjorie-taylor-greene

 

She is really scary.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Fuzzbucket