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2 hours ago, RainDear said:

Sometimes different opinions are not Right/Wrong, they are just different. 

 

When we have differing opinions here, we are usually civil to one another and I really value that. This is a safe place.  

very much agree with this.  we need a place to talk about differing views and being respectful.  i think it also helps when we have links and sources to back up what information we're putting forth. 

 

the fun part of the internet is that there's no tone, so snark - as well as honestly - is hard to convey with just words.  i've also said that how you've gone though your day can translate to your mindset as you're reading things online.  a person who may had a productive, satisfying day might read everything with honestly and sincerity.  the person who had a lousy day working on the register and shaking their heads at some of the wacky things customers have said might read everything with snark and sarcasm.  even the simple phase "gee, thanks!" can go either way. that said, we also have a tone in mind as we're writing a post too, but no one else knows what that tone is, and is then interpreted by the reader.

 

there were a few posts above where i didn't have any links for my info, because they were how I understood it, which may very well be totally NOT the way things are, or not the way things are to other people.  i have my experiences, everyone else has theirs. if i've posted something that was incorrect or someone could have taken offense to, i'll make sure to clear things up, and be understanding that someone else may have read it sideways.  then again, i'm also good at reading things sideways sometimes too XD 

 

but - i'm glad we have this safe space as well. :) 

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Hugs raindear, just because.

 

 

I remember 9/11 too; I was in the car driving to get it serviced; was just turning in when the first plane hit - by chance the commentator had been in New York for something else and happened to be close and described it in total disbelief - like Oh my GOD a plane just hit the world trade centre right down the block from where I'm standing), ran in to the garage to tell them, they said don't be silly - and turned on the TV just as the second one did. Horrible stuff.

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2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

This too. We HAVE to get past fossil fuels. And there are huge opportunities in the electric car industry, to name but one.

And yet our government has just allowed an oil company to do exploratory drilling offshore from one of our islands - and we're one that will end up underwater eventually.

How stupid can you get?!?

 

I'm so glad Biden has rejoined the Paris Agreement. Maybe he can talk some sense to our elected officials.

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I had a small political conversation with my mom's boyfriend earlier who's very pro-Trump after I mentioned his Pepsi button. Purposefully a small conversation, because I had to get my mom to help defuse it before it became too involved, especially after he ran out of any rebuttal and decided to just end everything with "you're so misguided". I mean, don't get me wrong, he's truly a nice person and means well, it's just he's really gotten onboard with all the pro-Trump stuff so it's difficult to converse with him about it. The only pro-Trump person I can really talk to about politics is my grandmother, she's always quite civil about it.

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3 hours ago, KrazyKarp said:

I had a small political conversation with my mom's boyfriend earlier who's very pro-Trump after I mentioned his Pepsi button. Purposefully a small conversation, because I had to get my mom to help defuse it before it became too involved, especially after he ran out of any rebuttal and decided to just end everything with "you're so misguided". I mean, don't get me wrong, he's truly a nice person and means well, it's just he's really gotten onboard with all the pro-Trump stuff so it's difficult to converse with him about it. The only pro-Trump person I can really talk to about politics is my grandmother, she's always quite civil about it.

From what I've gathered from reading other people's experiences, your mother's boyfriend is the typical Trump supporter. Your grandmother is not.

People aren't being hyperbolic when they call Trump's base 'a cult.'

Fox News and Facebook carries a Lot of blame for this. 

But Trump also uses a lot of speech patterns that you'll find in recordings of the speech patterns of cult leaders. I do not think that it is an intentional thing on Trump's part, but something he just gradually developed on his own. 

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Lol.. Sarah Huckabee Sanders is running for Governor of Arkansas. She couldn't even handle being the WH Press Secretary. Given the lies she told for them I'd ask who would trust her to run an entire state let alone anything... Then i remember Trump voters ..not that i actually forgot.😥

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15 hours ago, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

But Trump also uses a lot of speech patterns that you'll find in recordings of the speech patterns of cult leaders. I do not think that it is an intentional thing on Trump's part, but something he just gradually developed on his own. 

This is interesting, do you or anyone else have any sources I can look at about this? Sounds like an interesting (but terrifying) read. It also makes me wonder what about Trump's speech patterns are different than that of other politicians, since I'm assuming not all politicians share these cult leader speech patterns.

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I don't know of any articles written (yet) specifically about the observation of similarities in the speech patterns, but various people have noticed it, including an actual suvivor of the Jonestown massacre. Williams, who avoided the Jonestown Massacre, explained to KRON why Trump reminds her so much of Jones. There's another Jonestown survivor who mentioned it, too: Jackie Speier. She was at the Capitol on January 6th: “When I heard that shot, it took me back in time [to Jonestown],” Speier said. “I laid my cheek on that cold stone floor and had a sense of resignation that maybe this was really going to be the end.” 

 

There are articles comparing Trump to cult leaders in other ways.

After escaping the Unification Church, Hassan dedicated his life's work to freeing other people from mind control organizations and destructive cults. He is now one of the world's leading experts on mind control and cults.

In 2016 Hassan saw those (cult leader) traits personified in the form of Republican nominee Donald Trump. He then tried to alert the public to the danger that a cult leader would become president and that ruin and despair for the United States would be the inevitable result.

 

Edited by Long_Before_Sunrise

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I believe this is the article/interview that Long_Before_Sunrise mentioned, from the Pacific Standard. (EDIT: this is not, but is an article interviewing a sociologist (Janja Lalich, emeritus of California State University of Chico) who specializes in the Heaven's Gate cult, of Jonestown fame.)

 

Here's a 2015 article from the New York Times that analyzed 95k of his words from different speeches and rallies and tallied up just what he was saying and how. Here's a striking quote:

 

"The most striking hallmark was Mr. Trump’s constant repetition of divisive phrases, harsh words and violent imagery that American presidents rarely use, based on a quantitative comparison of his remarks and the news conferences of recent presidents, Democratic and Republican. He has a particular habit of saying “you” and “we” as he inveighs against a dangerous “them” or unnamed other — usually outsiders like illegal immigrants (“they’re pouring in”), Syrian migrants (“young, strong men”) and Mexicans, but also leaders of both political parties."

 

And it's not just what he talks about, it's how he presents it. Stat News has an article talking about his general change in speech patterns, and Vox has some analysis for it, as does NPR, and Tiffany Markman writing for Medium. Scientific American also has an interview with Jack Grieve and Isobelle Clark of the University of Birmingham (there's a link to the study in the article) who analyzed the content and style of Trump's tweets over the years (2009-2018), not just during his presidency.

 

Now, I personally don't believe that he's purposefully flubbing his speech to appeal to a Republican base, nor that he's becoming senile or experiencing any severe cognitive decline given that he made it to the end of his presidency about as coherent as he was in 2018 or so. And honestly I don't particularly care for any attempts at finding reasons why he speaks like that, because it's easily challenged by those on the right since without, like, an MRI or blood test from him, proving that he's on drugs or succumbing to dementia is on tenuous scientific ground. And ultimately, the reasons don't matter. What matters is why and how this helped make his loyalists who they are today. The fact that he doesn't soften his blows (or praise), ever, when typical politicians generally try to couch their language and not seem too extreme, appeals to those who mistrust the government and consider them over-educated elites who don't care for the everyman. Trump positions himself as someone who speaks truth to power, mostly by verbalizing the things that "PC culture" have deemed unacceptable (ie mocking the disabled, calling immigrants rapists and robbers, etc), and it's refreshing to people who feel alienated and threatened by the relatively recent shifts in American culture. He doesn't have extremely advanced and nuanced rhetoric or ideas on policy, just pure pathos, and that ideological simplicity means it has fewer caveats to turn people off to his ideas. He becomes almost like a blank slate, their avatar in the government, someone they can project upon and look up to. I suspect it's why some followers have a kind of messiah-rhetoric around him, especially QAnon believers.

 

Of course, this doesn't represent every single Trump supporter. Others just support him because he's currently in charge and generally is in agreement with the rest of their beliefs, even if they don't like his rhetoric and think the cult of personality that's formed around him is kind of weird. And not every cult leader speaks like Trump, either, plenty of them have extremely complicated and nuanced rhetoric, like the Church of Scientology. But the foundations of "a group having an undying loyalty to an individual who champions those who feel alienated and vulnerable, and then alienates them further with false, misleading ideas" are the same.

Edited by soullessheartofsteel
spelling

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Listening for the speech patterns and inflections requires study - like differentiating between bird songs or types of tree bark or identifying musical notes by ear. You'd need a documentary of audio clips to compare. So experts are talking about how his actions are like actions of cult leaders, because it is an easier way to explain.

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9 minutes ago, soullessheartofsteel said:

Of course, this doesn't represent every since Trump supporter. Others just support him because he's currently in charge and generally is in agreement with the rest of their beliefs, even if they don't like his rhetoric and think the cult of personality that's formed around him is kind of weird.

 

"Kind of weird" is a Fauci level understatement.

 

Thank you for the links.

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Apparently House minority leader Kevin McCarthy thinks it is perfectly acceptable for a House member to support the execution of Speaker Nancy Pelosi and others. Marjorie Taylor Greene won't even get a slap on the wrist. He just plans to have a "conversation" with her. Excuse me? How do you have a conversation with a totally irrational kook?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/27/marjorie-taylor-greene-republican-no-action-pelosi-execution?utm_term=fc8d1ee7b9ec6e6d521645f7986dc9fa&utm_campaign=USMorningBriefing&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=usbriefing_email

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2 hours ago, purplehaze said:

Apparently House minority leader Kevin McCarthy thinks it is perfectly acceptable for a House member to support the execution of Speaker Nancy Pelosi and others. Marjorie Taylor Greene won't even get a slap on the wrist. He just plans to have a "conversation" with her. Excuse me? How do you have a conversation with a totally irrational kook?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/27/marjorie-taylor-greene-republican-no-action-pelosi-execution?utm_term=fc8d1ee7b9ec6e6d521645f7986dc9fa&utm_campaign=USMorningBriefing&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=usbriefing_email

My opinion.

 

Makes perfect sense to me. The Republicans decided that no action needed to be taken on Trump's first impeachment. "He's learned a lesson."

Edited by RainDear
correction

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The Republican party as a whole seems to be spinning off into la-la land! They don't want to hold Trump responsible for the insurrection he incited, either, so his 2nd impeachment will no doubt end the same as the first. :angry:

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i thought republicans were the "party of personal responsibility"?

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So, before the election I pretty much told people that I was not going to allow people to bully and belittle me, or anyone else for that matter on my Facebook page regarding well....pretty much anything. I found the biggest problem I had was a lot of Trump supporters literally bashing me and anyone else if we were going to vote against Trump. I actually had someone who was a Trump supporter tell me "If you aren't voting for Trump, maybe you should sit this election out and not vote period." I replied, "No, it's my right to vote for who I wish and if you're so sure Trump is going to win re-election then what are you worried about?" Total and complete silence. I have been called every single expletive and nasty name in the book because I do NOT and will NEVER support Trump. I was so happy that Joe Biden won. I was so happy that I even cried because I saw it as a great change coming and a much needed one. I'm not a crier or an overly emotional person, but I am an empath and I feel everything around me. So, this past four years of drama, discord and division of the American people has been a HUGE weight on me. I would feel it everywhere I went. I couldn't and still can't understand how so many people refuse to see the lies and have hard proof that he did do various things and say various things on camera and people who support him say it's fake news. I don't understand how you can see solid proof of all the criminality and misdeeds and still say it never happened. I really hope that going forward that President Biden can start uniting the country and shore up at least some of the damage that Trump did.

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49 minutes ago, blackmagicrose said:

I actually had someone who was a Trump supporter tell me "If you aren't voting for Trump, maybe you should sit this election out and not vote period." I replied, "No, it's my right to vote for who I wish and if you're so sure Trump is going to win re-election then what are you worried about?" Total and complete silence.

this seemed (seems?) to be a thing with trump supporters - they can't quite grasp the concept of logic and the flail around a bit when faced with logical arguments and suggestions.

 

i too am SO glad that Biden won the election :D 

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Anyone that can stand with Trump, to me, is a cultist fool.

The man did nothing for America in four years and only incited hate and insurrection.

The Trump cult must be defeated.

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2 hours ago, Bigbite said:

Anyone that can stand with Trump, to me, is a cultist fool.

The man did nothing for America in four years and only incited hate and insurrection.

The Trump cult must be defeated.

 

Unfortunately, I know some people who are ultimately good-hearted and generous in personality, but they've been sucked in by Fox News. It's contradictory, yes, but here we are.

 

Coco movie:

Clerk: [sneezing] I am terribly allergic.

Miguel: But Dante doesn't have any hair.

Clerk: And I don't have a nose, and yet, here we are.

 

 

Edited by Long_Before_Sunrise

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The news won't say so directly, but Marjorie Taylor Greene is so deep down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole that she's too strange even for Wonderland.

 

She claimed the California wildfires caused by PG&E were actually caused by a satellite shooting a laser from space.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

The news won't say so directly, but Marjorie Taylor Greene is so deep down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole that she's too strange even for Wonderland.

She claimed the California wildfires caused by PG&E were actually caused by a satellite shooting a laser from space.

i.... 

what tf??

wow.

 

one of the hosts on CNN (or MSNBC? don't remember which one was on the other night) said  that Kevin McCarthy was going to give MTG a "talking too." in the case of McCarthy, the host continued, what's he going to say? good job? XD 

 

it's concerning.

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I haven't heard much of her since I'm not too involved with Georgia politics, being on the other side of the country, but I just looked up her page on Wikipedia and... wow. 90% of her policies are based off of conspiracy theories. And that bit with the Camp Fire from 2018 also somehow managed to blame the Rothschilds too, because it's not enough to be a climate-change denying, gun-toting, immigrant-hating, coup-supporting fool, you gotta be antisemitic as well. And apparently she also filed articles of impeachment against Biden literally the day after he was inaugurated. My brain is hurting just looking at her page. I cannot believe this woman got elected to office.

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there are a LOT of people who are in congress who make me wonder how they got there - Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert (CO) as well.  along with Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio.. and how tf did Graham and McConnell even get re-elected?!?

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