American Politics

[Fuzzbucket]

EXCEPT: (this cheered me up a lot)

 

He said:

 

 

Quote

 

Like all Americans, I am outraged by the violence, lawlessness and mayhem,” he said in a brief video message, saying the Make America Great Again (Maga) faithful had “defiled the seat of American democracy”.

“To those who engaged in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country,” he said. “To those who broke the law, you will pay.”

 

 

 

And the result ?

 

 

Quote

 

The sudden volte-face from the president was met by anger among those who said they had travelled to DC to support his “Stop the Steal” rally. 

“Get f***ed. Seriously. I am now saying it. F*** TRUMP,” reacted Reddit user KAG_2020_BB.

“He’s disrespected everything we risked our lives for.

“I have a right to dislike Trump for this video … I respected Trump for everything he did for us, but he has now abandoned us and disrespected everything we believe in. I have a right to be angry. He can go f*** himself in this video.”

 

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/capitol-riots-trump-supporters-b1784318.html

[demonicvampiregirl]

12 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

EXCEPT: (this cheered me up a lot)

 

He said:

 

 

 

 

And the result ?

 

 

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/capitol-riots-trump-supporters-b1784318.html

 

 

It took them this long to realize he didn't care about them? Come on, a lot of us have been saying it since the start. 4 years and you now see it. 😕

 

Also, I found this little gem while doing a quick search to see how the impeachment was coming along:

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-was-angry-at-capitol-mob-only-because-they-looked-cheap-and-poor-report/

Edited January 10, 2021 by demonicvampiregirl

[Fuzzbucket]

That's marvellous !

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

39 minutes ago, demonicvampiregirl said:

 

 

It took them this long to realize he didn't care about them? Come on, a lot of us have been saying it since the start. 4 years and you now see it. 😕

 

Also, I found this little gem while doing a quick search to see how the impeachment was coming along:

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-was-angry-at-capitol-mob-only-because-they-looked-cheap-and-poor-report/

They have the 'I am the exception to the rule' complex. Many around Trump do. Many were astonished when he threw them under the bus like they watched him do others.

 

Edit: Think about it, he never said one word to the people who were left stranded THREE times trying to attend his preelection rallies. Stranded in bitter cold, high heat, and dark of night. 

 

"I never thought the leopard would eat my face, and after all I've done for him!" wailed the member of The Leopards Eating People's Faces party.

 

Oh, look, a scorpion waving an olive branch and promising not to sting anymore: Now that our attempt to overthrow the government failed, let’s be friends.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Long_Before_Sunrise
You know, stuff and things like that

[Confused Cat]

Arnold Schwarzenegger made a video. Some parts might be questionable (or require more information about how he they were intended to be understood), but I do like the message to President-elect Biden at the end.

https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1348249481284874240

 

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

I didn't find a single word of that questionable. I was never wild about Arnie - but that was ACE !

[Nine]

On 1/9/2021 at 1:10 PM, soullessheartofsteel said:

Law enforcement officers aren't unbiased, neutral third parties, because as you said, they're human, and they make mistakes, and so are the people who employ them and work with them. So why would they be the best source of info?

 

If I want to know more about the human body I'll ask people who work with the human body, study it, or research it. I'm not presumptuous enough to think I can diagnose illnesses just from watching videos and reading Wikipedia; experience alone is a great educator. Even if I were paranoid and thought all doctors were pill-pushers, it doesn't discount all the data and info gotten from studies done in the medical field.

 

It's always nice to remain somewhat skeptical and try to educate yourself so you can make good decisions without being led down a certain path. That's why I think it's great when people have access to all the unfiltered, uncut data and can make their own decisions. But while everybody can have an opinion, it that doesn't make everyone's opinion equally accurate to reality. I'm sure if I posted a scientific study that affirms something ACAB-ers don't agree with, it will be shot down regardless of its scientific integrity. Coming from the 'best source of info' makes no difference if it doesn't confirm what people already want to believe.

[Astreya]

Robert Reich wrote an article in the Guardian that also points out that Trumps enablers need to be brought to law, too:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/10/trump-coup-capitol-attack-pence-giuliani-fox-news-twitter-facebook-impeachment

 

Quote

Trump’s accomplices on Capitol Hill, most notably the Texas senator Ted Cruz and Missouri senator Josh Hawley, should be forced to resign.

 

Knowing Trump’s allegations of voting fraud were false, Cruz and Hawley led the move to exclude Biden electors – even after the storming of the Capitol – thereby lending Trump’s claims credibility.

 

The United States constitution says “no Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress” who “shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against” the constitution, “or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof”.

 

Both Cruz and Hawley are eyeing runs for the presidency in 2024. They should be barred from running.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Astreya

[Lagie]

5 hours ago, Confused Cat said:

Arnold Schwarzenegger made a video. Some parts might be questionable (or require more information about how he they were intended to be understood), but I do like the message to President-elect Biden at the end.

https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1348249481284874240

Good video! (Great background music, too.)

[demonicvampiregirl]

6 hours ago, Long_Before_Sunrise said:

They have the 'I am the exception to the rule' complex. Many around Trump do. Many were astonished when he threw them under the bus like they watched him do others.

 

Edit: Think about it, he never said one word to the people who were left stranded THREE times trying to attend his preelection rallies. Stranded in bitter cold, high heat, and dark of night. 

 

"I never thought the leopard would eat my face, and after all I've done for him!" wailed the member of The Leopards Eating People's Faces party.

 

Oh, look, a scorpion waving an olive branch and promising not to sting anymore: Now that our attempt to overthrow the government failed, let’s be friends.

 

Exactly.

Hilarious now that they scramble to make amends. It's to late and you reap what you sow!

[Long_Before_Sunrise]

2 hours ago, demonicvampiregirl said:

 

Exactly.

Hilarious now that they scramble to make amends. It's to late and you reap what you sow!

 

Unfortunately, it has worked well for them in the past 40-60 years.But this time they've done things that haven't happened in the US since the time of the Civil War/Reconstruction period. 

 

People are demanding that the olive branch be slapped right out of their hand.

 

Edit: 🤢 Republicans Ask Biden to Stop Impeachment in the “Spirit of Healing.”

 

"With only days left in Trump’s term, Rep. Ken Buck (R-Colo.) and six other Republican representatives wrote in a letter to Biden on Saturday that they believed impeachment was “as unnecessary as it is inflammatory,” and that Biden should intervene “in the spirit of healing and fidelity to our Constitution.” 

 

Note: Impeachment and removal would remove Trump's ability to run for president again in 2024. And he would lose the privileges normally extended to former presidents. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Long_Before_Sunrise

[soullessheartofsteel]

12 hours ago, Nine said:

I'm sure if I posted a scientific study that affirms something ACAB-ers don't agree with, it will be shot down regardless of its scientific integrity. Coming from the 'best source of info' makes no difference if it doesn't confirm what people already want to believe.

 

At least we can agree that people's opinions can be hard to change. It's a fine balance between sticking to one's morals and being open-minded and willing to change. I did try to find the best sources I could for the post I made earlier because I do want to try to back up what I say with something substantial. And IIRC the part where I talked about the percent of officers that voted Republican in 2016 came from a police journal, and that data was from a self-reported poll. Are there any studies/articles that you feel would give me an opportunity to see another perspective? Even if it doesn't change my mind, it'll be comforting to see that we're both coming at this in good faith despite our disagreements.

 

It's gonna be nuts if Congress can successfully speedrun an impeachment in less than two weeks. Reality started melting a while ago so honestly I think they just might be able to pull it off. And it's kind of funny seeing Trump and the other people who participated in the insurrection get deplatformed on Twitter get so mad about it because they were the ones who made it legal for private companies (whether that's bakeries or Twitter) to refuse service to people on account of their personal beliefs. Social media's vast power over the political process is definitely a problem and does need to be addressed and curbed but this, specifically? Trump and his party absolutely did this to themselves. I hear Parler is going under, too. Good riddance.

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh ugh. Look at your new congresswoman (she who carries a Glock into Congress)

 

https://www.politicalflare.com/2021/01/americans-call-for-full-investigation-of-gop-rep-lauren-boebert-for-tweeting-pelosis-position-during-riots/

[soullessheartofsteel]

Christ almighty. I know a few Congresspeople were among the crowds during 1/6 (which I found so weird, they're politicians, they make the laws). Had these people not proven that they're not above kidnapping (Michigan, and that guy with the flex cuffs) and coups, I wouldn't have believed that this lady would be trying to advertise Pelosi's position to the others, but now... yikes. Removing Trump is not going to be enough, it's just the beginning, now that people with the same type of brainrot and corruption as him have been emboldened as to run and be elected. I don't even particularly love Pelosi and I know this is wrong. Flapping weapons around and (if the investigation proves it) siccing a mob on a fellow Congressperson is just caveman levels of discourse and unacceptable politics. Propriety and civility isn't everything, but I certainly feel it should count for something as an elected public servant.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

Not to mention: 

 

Quote

 

the office of the Colorado Democratic representative Jason Crow released a readout of a call in which army secretary Ryan McCarthy “indicated that [the Department of Defense] is aware of further possible threats posed by would-be terrorists in the days up to and including Inauguration Day”.

According to the readout, McCarthy said the Pentagon was “working with local and federal law enforcement to coordinate security preparations” for 20 January.

Crow, a former US army ranger, said he had “raised grave concerns about reports that active duty and reserve military members were involved in the insurrection” and asked that “troops deployed for the inauguration … are not sympathetic to domestic terrorists”. The readout said McCarthy agreed and said he was willing to testify publicly in the coming days.

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/11/pelosi-says-house-will-proceed-with-efforts-to-remove-trump-with-urgency-25th-amendment

[Lagie]

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Not to mention: 

 Very scary!

[Fuzzbucket]

It doesn't get any better.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/11/republican-attorneys-general-association-robocall-capi

[trystan]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/11/republican-attorneys-general-association-robocall-capitol

 

LOL

backpedaling at its finest.

even my retrumplican senator, Pat Toomey, is now calling for trump to get the @#$%^ out of office.  a PA state rep has called him "Too-Late Toomey"

[Nine]

12 hours ago, soullessheartofsteel said:

 

At least we can agree that people's opinions can be hard to change. It's a fine balance between sticking to one's morals and being open-minded and willing to change. I did try to find the best sources I could for the post I made earlier because I do want to try to back up what I say with something substantial. And IIRC the part where I talked about the percent of officers that voted Republican in 2016 came from a police journal, and that data was from a self-reported poll. Are there any studies/articles that you feel would give me an opportunity to see another perspective? Even if it doesn't change my mind, it'll be comforting to see that we're both coming at this in good faith despite our disagreements.

 

Sure, I can try to find some studies. Might be a while for me to post though-- don't have much free time to trawl through journals atm. This past year has made "controversial" things all the more difficult to find but I will do my best.

 

Gotta be careful about self-reported polls and interpreting that data too. It may be that officers who voted Repub are more likely to admit to such and respond to polls, which can skew data. I personally don't doubt that a sizeable portion vote Repub, if only because Democrat politicians are much more vocal about their hatred of police and throwing them under the bus for votes. On the other hand Republican politicians will pretend to be pro-police as long as it remains beneficial.

[Fuzzbucket]

I never give honest answers when asked which way I voted. Just saying.

[ValidEmotions]

Want to pop in really quickly:

 

The very history of the police is a racist one, right to their roots. Police were first formed as a specialized group to hunt down escaped slaves and protect the property of the elites from those poorer than them. That was their very origin in the USA. That racism never left. And still goes strong through police brutality and overwhelming incarceration of BIPOC while letting more White people off for the exact same crimes, especially non-violent crimes. There is video evidence of white Capital Police taking selfies with the White Supremist domestic terrorists storming the building and other police officers literally opening the gates/barricades so that the terrorists can get inside. This is in addition to the significant lack of action/response from police as a majority stood by the wayside. 

 

Whereas, the same Capital police had zero qualms dragging people out of their wheelchairs when protesters sat in for medicaid... Or, you know, brutalizing BIPOC at peaceful BLM protests and harassing BIPOC driving through in the car without even confirming if they were in attendance for the protest....

 

So, that 84% voting for Trump in 2016? Doesn't seem too far-fetched to assume it adequately reflects police vote through the entire nation.

 

Edit to add: And for extra information, there are multiple accounts from good police that, when they've reported fellows who are corrupt or crossed a major line, those good cops received threats from their fellow officers. Some left dead rats on the desks of those who wanted to call out and hold officers accountable for their crimes. Good cops exist, sure, but in such small quantity; the bad/racist cops do everything they can to snuff out the good ones so they don't have to be held accountable.

Edited January 11, 2021 by ValidEmotions

[soullessheartofsteel]

2 hours ago, Nine said:

 

Gotta be careful about self-reported polls and interpreting that data too. It may be that officers who voted Repub are more likely to admit to such and respond to polls, which can skew data.

 

2 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I never give honest answers when asked which way I voted. Just saying.

 

2 hours ago, ValidEmotions said:

So, that 84% voting for Trump in 2016? Doesn't seem too far-fetched to assume it adequately reflects police vote through the entire nation.

 

Oh for sure, to all of these. Self-reported data can be inconsistent, and it's only one poll and one journal-- it's definitely more representative of the readership of that specific journal than every single officer in America. But it's a start, and I have little reason to believe that this poll is an extreme outlier. The Fraternal Order of Police, for example, endorsed Trump in both 2016 and 2020, as well as a bunch of other police unions and fraternities. Given that 60% of officers were willing to tell pollsters that they voted for Trump back in 2016 during the exit polls, I think it's fair to say that at least 2/3 of officers support Trump's ideas, or at least passively condone them, which is bad in its own right. 

 

2 hours ago, ValidEmotions said:

 

The very history of the police is a racist one, right to their roots. Police were first formed as a specialized group to hunt down escaped slaves and protect the property of the elites from those poorer than them. That was their very origin in the USA. That racism never left.

 

Google only turned up some articles refuting the claim that the modern police system began as slave-catching posses. Can you help me find some other sources? And yes, it never did. A lot of the explosion of new KKK members in the 1920s was because of William J. Simmons' efforts at revamping the group's reputation as a law-and-order group that encouraged law enforcement to join. There are dozens of news reports on officers getting fired for also belonging to the KKK or other white supremacist groups. Yes, they fired them, and undercover efforts to expose and remove white supremacist groups do happen (like what officer Ron Stallworth did in the 80s), but the fact that extremists like that feel welcome in law enforcement, which is, in theory, a neutral institution, says a lot about the culture of policing in America. It's so bad that even the FBI released a report in 2006 talking about how bad the problem is. In 2020, Rep. Raskin released the unredacted version of the report to the public. Here's a source that condenses the report and makes it a bit more readable to laypeople.

 

I don't take issue with law enforcement as a concept. Law enforcement officers should encourage integrity and cooperation among citizens and ensure safety and justice for victims of crime, and the governments that employ them should, in tandem, wrestle the greater issues that lead to crime like economic inequality. An institution like that doesn't create police officers who handcuff 6 year olds or shoot sleeping ER techs while taking mass shooters who are explicitly motivated by white supremacist ideals like Dylann Roof and Kyle Rittenhouse into custody unharmed. (Not that Roof and Rittenhouse should have been brutalized and not given due process of law, but rather that everyone else they arrest get it, too. George Floyd did not deserve to die for a fake 20 dollar bill if Dylann Roof can shoot nine and go to jail alive.)

Edited January 11, 2021 by soullessheartofsteel
grammar...

[ValidEmotions]

@soullessheartofsteel 

Quote

United States

Main article: Law enforcement in the United States

In British North America, policing was initially provided by local elected officials. For instance, the New York Sheriff's Office was founded in 1626, and the Albany County Sheriff's Department in the 1660s. In the colonial period, policing was provided by elected sheriffs and local militias.

In the 1700s, the Province of Carolina (later North- and South Carolina) established slave patrols in order to prevent slave rebellions and enslaved people from escaping.^[59][60] For example, by 1785 the Charleston Guard and Watch had "a distinct chain of command, uniforms, sole responsibility for policing, salary, authorized use of force, and a focus on preventing 'crime'."^[61]

Wikipedia page on Police

 

Quote

The first publicly funded, organized police force with officers on duty full-time was created in Boston in 1838. Boston was a large shipping commercial center, and businesses had been hiring people to protect their property and safeguard the transport of goods from the port of Boston to other places, says Potter.

...

 

In the South, however, the economics that drove the creation of police forces were centered not on the protection of shipping interests but on the preservation of the slavery system. Some of the primary policing institutions there were the slave patrols tasked with chasing down runaways and preventing slave revolts, Potter says; the first formal slave patrol had been created in the Carolina colonies in 1704. During the Civil War, the military became the primary form of law enforcement in the South, but during Reconstruction, many local sheriffs functioned in a way analogous to the earlier slave patrols, enforcing segregation and the disenfranchisement of freed slaves.

 

The History of Police in America

 

Quote

Policing in what would become the United States of America arose from the law enforcement systems in European countries, particularly the ancient English common law system. This relied heavily on citizen volunteers, as well as watch groups, constables, sheriffs, and a conscription system known as posse comitatus similar to the militia system.^[12][13]

An early night watch formed in Boston in 1631, and in 1634 the first U.S. constable on record was Joshua Pratt, in the Plymouth Colony.^[14] Constables were tasked with surveying land, serving warrants, and enforcing punishments.^[15]

Law Enforcement in the USA 

Emphasis in bold is mine; these are filled by volunteers during the time while the North still had slavery, too. The North didn't have as much slavery, but slavery wasn't abolished until 1774-1804 and the North--while they tolerated BIPOC a little better than the South--wasn't absolved of being racist as well. This means there was a heavy racial bias against BIPOC. (Look to the Civil Rights Movement where police and firefighters set attack dogs or sprayed high-pressure water upon BIPOC for peacefully marching; look to the BLM peaceful protests where police fired rubber bullets at people's faces, including news reporters, that caused multiple people to lose their eyeballs; it's not a stretch to assume biased, volunteering police in the 1600s would attack BIPOC for as simple as looking "suspicious".)

 

Keep in mind, rubber bullets are supposed to be shot, from a distance, towards the ground where the bullet is then meant to ricochet to the target's body. They're not designed for up-close, direct fire at people's faces.

 

Quote

many historians have demonstrated, early America was built by exploiting different kinds of labor - right? - and ensuring that black folks remained in their place, that poor white folks would also remain in their place and that they would kind of protect rich white people from everyone else. And so I think when you understand that context, there's far more evidence to support the view that modern policing was invented to make sure that that social hierarchy remained intact.

NPR's coverage of History of the police

Edited January 12, 2021 by ValidEmotions

[soullessheartofsteel]

@ValidEmotions Thank you! Seems that most of the most direct sources trace back to a post from the National Law Enforcement Museum, which was an interesting read as well. There's also a piece by Dr. Gary Potter, professor of Criminal Justice at Eastern Kentucky University which appears to be intended for his students in Justice Studies or similar fields. It also has a nice long list of sources at the end.

[purplehaze]

It is interesting to see big corporations withdrawing financial support from those who voted to reject the EC. I wonder if it is just a public relations stunt that will go away after people forget about it, or if they really mean it.