American Politics

[purplehaze]

7 hours ago, KrazyKarp said:

Possibly silly question from a first-time voter, is there no set day where we know who won? Just whenever they finish counting? Either way doesn't matter to me, I'm just curious.

As others have said, usually we can have a pretty good idea before election day is even over. But nothing is normal this year! Nothing!

The news networks have always been anxious to declare a winner, to beat out the other networks by being first to call it. This year I don't think they will be doing that -- at least I hope not.

The very best result would be if Biden is clearly ahead at all times from the beginning, so Trump never gets his chance to declare victory early and then claim the Dems "stole" the election with the later vote tallies. I doubt that will happen, but we can hope.

[purpledragonclaw]

Please remember, everyone, no matter what you see or hear on social media and TV, we very likely won't know the results of the election for almost a month afterwards. Election officials have said it will most likely take to the end of November for certainty, as trystan and AngelsSin said, due to the influx of mail-in and absentee ballots in states that usually don't have that election load. I'll drop another link to John Oliver, because he summed it up very well. 

[ValidEmotions]

As a couple others have already mentioned, it's unlikely to know how "set" the expectations are by the end of tonight.

Project 538 has a guide based on estimates for result expectations and when we might be able to see a "final answer" per state. Due keep in mind, these are estimates and can change as the day progresses based upon what states are reporting/projecting.

 

Fortunately, a couple Supreme Courts have been denying GOP attempts to block counting mailed-in ballots after Election Day.

 

ETA: And, for those who are voting today in person, if you witness anything like voter suppression/intimidation, election misinformation, etc., please report it on See Say 2020

Edited November 3, 2020 by ValidEmotions

[Lagie]

This thread is ominously quiet this morning. Are you guys all hiding in your bunkers?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election/us2020/results

(Still too early to call... )

[Herk]

God I'm developing anxiety. Seeing the numbers so far makes me wanna just curl up and cry - or puke - or both. How can ANY sentient being with even a hint of empathy vote for the Republican Party of Donald Trump? I just can't compute the fact that so many people voted for that walking representation of hate.

He might yet lose but still those numbers are depressing to the extreme.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, Lagie said:

This thread is ominously quiet this morning. Are you guys all hiding in your bunkers?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election/us2020/results

(Still too early to call... )

 

No - but what's the point posting obsessively. We know nothing yet.

 

WAY TO GO Detroit, though

[trystan]

just got the forum up on my work computer. 

trying not to panic

steeling myself for a trump win, and four more years of fighting because i don't want to get my hopes up.

and i'm an optimist....

[Astreya]

Are you effing kidding me, US Americans? So many votes for Mr.Trump when it is plain obvious that he is completely useless as a president?!  Ah well, there is still hope, it seems...

[purplehaze]

2 hours ago, Herk said:

God I'm developing anxiety. Seeing the numbers so far makes me wanna just curl up and cry - or puke - or both. How can ANY sentient being with even a hint of empathy vote for the Republican Party of Donald Trump? I just can't compute the fact that so many people voted for that walking representation of hate.

He might yet lose but still those numbers are depressing to the extreme.

That pretty much exactly sums up my feelings. I am so disappointed in the American people. To me this was so clearly a battle between good and evil! I really thought that Biden would win by a comfortable margin, although I knew something like this could happen. I am a walking bundle of nerves this morning!

And I honestly think it is time for the political pollsters to just hang up their hats and admit that they haven't a CLUE!

Edited November 4, 2020 by purplehaze

[Sesshomaru]

I'm less concerned with the presidential race than I am with the California state ballots that immediately impact me. I've already accepted 4 more years of Trump. Can't do anything about it except move. The CA results just prove most California voters are idiots who don't read fine print and let YouTube ads tell them which way to swing. No on 21. Welp, there goes any hope I have of not being evicted anytime soon. Yes on 22, because Independent Contractors aren't ****ed over enough yet; let's stick the knife in a little deeper. No on 23. I hope you rich people are never in need of compassionate medical care. 🙄 No on 18. Gee, I know some 17-year-olds with more intelligence than a truckload of Boomers. No on 16 and Yes on 17 were the only really positive outcomes.

[ValidEmotions]

I know nerves are wearing thin with anxiety; mine are too. However, we still need to be patient. ALL of the votes must be counted. That includes the millions of mailed in ballots across the nation. That requires time. It's going to be a good week+ before the states have all of the votes counted. And then it'll be another month or so before an official, final, result is determined. Biden still looks good given that more democratic votes were done early and/or via mail and every single county has different procedures for the order in which they count votes (Early, Absentee, and Election Day). Right now, we just need Trump and the GOP to stop trying to block those counts from being made with Election Day at an end. Courts/Judges seem to be doing right by the citizens in preventing that from happening.

Edited November 4, 2020 by ValidEmotions

[TacticianLyra]

Trump's going to win. Even if he loses, the courts will just put him in anyways because they're all republican.

[ValidEmotions]

@TacticianLyra That's not how that works 😐  Whether you intended to or not, please don't add to the spread of misinformation.

[TacticianLyra]

Trump's going to bring a loss to the courts and they're going to rule in his favor. Nothing in this country is working the way it should be anymore.

[RainDear]

My opinion, just my opinion. 

 

The book American Nations by Colin Woodard has recently come to my attention. It is supposed to describe the different areas of the US and their "cultural ideas". I am hoping that reading it will give me better insight into the different viewpoints of my fellow countrymen. Right now, all I feel I "know" is that I simply do not understand.

 

Everything is "too close to call" and I am terrified. Close and lock the door get into bed and pull the covers over your head for 4 years. .. And PRAY, PRAY, PRAY, even if you aren't a believer.

Edited November 4, 2020 by RainDear

[trystan]

1 hour ago, RainDear said:

The book American Nations by Colin Woodard has recently come to my attention. It is supposed to describe the different areas of the US and their "cultural ideas". I am hoping that reading it will give me better insight into the different viewpoints of my fellow countrymen. Right now, all I feel I "know" is that I simply do not understand.

i agree, it sounds like an interesting read.

and i agree, there are some things i simply don't understand either.

[sad_magic]

Is it true he can bring the loss to courts and become president if he loses? That's actually terrifying and that's not how it's supposed to work?? He can't just bully his way into staying president. I don't know a lot about government or politics, can someone clarify for me? I had another friend who said Trump would most certainly start a coup to stay president and I don't know if that's possible either.

I have so much anxiety over this election.

[KrazyKarp]

I'm pretty confident Biden will win, but the fact that there were so many Trump voters is rather alarming.

 

As for the courts/coup thing, I have no idea on that either. Can someone who knows more about this stuff verify?

[trystan]

what i (vaguely) know is back in 2000, Al Gore challenged the vote to a recount in Florida against George W Bush, because of the way the punchcards didn't always punch out properly.  but apparently there was more to it than that, and even i don't know all the details.  it got to a certain date (near the end of november) and the courts did order the state to stop counting, and Bush won Florida for that election. (but that's all going on my vague understanding of what all happened.... even though i voted in that election.... 3rd party though.)

 

to answer the question - yes, the vote counts can be challenged, but i don't know the process.

 

but what i DO know is that there are always mail-in and absentee ballots for all the states every election.  most of the time, they come in when they should - overseas diplomats and armed forces have a little longer for their ballots to get back to their state (at least, in PA it's until a week after, so Nov. 11.  funny to note, there's no mail that day because it's Veteran's Day)  BUT for the most part, while they DO get counted, these aren't enough to change the outcome of the winner for that state.  BUT - as has been said, this is not a normal year, there's nothing normal about it, because of the pandemic.  so there was much more focus on mail-in ballots.  and since trump railed against them, calling them fraudulent (which he has no basis for), most of his base voted in person.  here in PA, there MAY be more Biden votes that have been mailed in, and they're still counting them.

 

what i can see, from my (cynical, limited) point of view, trump and his base want to know NOW that trump won.  they don't want to wait and find out that Biden won, because trump doesn't understand how any of it works - when applied to HIM.  it's only in recent times that the winner of the election is known so quickly after the polls close, but there are still votes being tabulated.

 

and - i learned something interesting, now that the votes have been cast, there still is a little bit of time until the actual electoral college meets to officially cast their votes for that person who won the votes of their states.  i had to look it up on wiki, so:

Quote

The electors of each state meet in their respective state capital on the first Monday after the second Wednesday of December to cast their votes. The results are counted by Congress, where they are tabulated in the first week of January before a joint meeting of the Senate and House of Representatives, presided over by the vice president, as president of the Senate.

in the case of this year, that's December 14th.  that's when it's officially official for the president-elect to get their 270 (or more?) votes.

 

however, i don't know where all the court cases will happen, how they happen, and why trump is a @#%%^&^&*%#$%@#.

12 minutes ago, KrazyKarp said:

the fact that there were so many Trump voters is rather alarming.

this.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by trystan

[AngelsSin]

He can take his case to the courts (the courts of each state) but the ruling still needs to be constitutional. They can't just decide that he should be president if the voting doesn't support that.

Edited November 4, 2020 by AngelsSin

[Astreya]

As for the Electoral Vote - I think I read somewhere that last time there were a few of the electors not voting according to the results of their States. IIRC there was a court ruling a short while ago that this time they should be forced to vote according to the result of there state. My question is - how can this be actually enforced? Is it an open vote?

[sad_magic]

This is all so confusing. I think it's extremely unfair that Trump has a chance regardless of what the votes say.

The fact that there are so many people who did vote for him IS alarming (like said above) and frankly downright disappointing. I can't believe it's really this close after all the crap he's done/said/put us through.

[RainDear]

My opinion, just my opinion...and I could be soo wrong.

 

I think what Trump expects to do is to stop the vote count on the remaining mail in votes, because "of course all of them are fraudulent and shouldn't count, anyway" so he'll sue to stop the count and declare himself the winner... if indeed he is ahead at all. But, even if he tries this move, the outcome will be up to the justices and will not necessarily go his way. But I don't see that scenario playing out anyway.

 

As far as him staging a coup, I have thought since the collapse of the Soviet Union that it COULD be possible but I by no means expect such a thing.

[AngelsSin]

The way things are looking Biden is gonna win. Not Trump. He can try every which way he wants but it won't change that he is gonna lose. Yes it's seriously disappointing that it is as close as it is. But at least the chance right now of him winning is extremely slim. And once that happens maybe we can start to get things how they should be, not this Trump induced madness that we've had to live with for the last 4 yrs and I usually wouldn't say this but hopefully he will die off soon so there is no chance of him running again in the next election.

[Astreya]

Is it even possible that a President can run again after he was voted out? Or can the 2-term-limit be spread out that he runs again bbut can't be re-elected then? Or can he be re-elected if he runs again after such a break? *curious*