Harry Potter Book Discussion

[eggy]

There was something I didn't get in Book 7.

 

"Charlie Weasley was overtaking Horace Slughorn"

 

Did that mean Slughorn chickened and joined forces with Voldemort

You know.

I just reread this book and had the same question.

There is a part when McGonagall tells Slughorn to gather the students of his house and decide where their loyalties lie. He doesn't say anything and she leaves with Harry.

And also, when Voldemort talks to Lucius Malfoy, who is asking to go into the castle to find Draco, he takes no pity for the Malfoys, because Draco could still be in the Castle, unlike the other Slytherins.

So I would think that the Slytherins turned on Hogwarts?

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[darkangel787]

durr, I don't know. I'll go look trhough the book later; too lazy now.

Maybe they were running towards someplace and Charlie just ran ahead of Horace? That would make the most sense, though I"m not sure the context because I can't find my book now. Probably in the car whil I was reading it on the way to school on Friday

Silly, absentminded me.

 

 

Anyway, I'm not sure about Slytherins joining forces with Voldemort. I mean, I was slightly irritated with the fact that NONE stayed behind. It's almost as if JKR wants to enforce the stereotype even more that SLYTHERINS = BAD. This shouldn't be uber true! I don't care, just have at least ONE stay behind? Pweez?

[futurelibkeeper]

Well even if one Slytherin did stay behind, it's not like she'd stop the book and be all "omg lookit daaaat, it's a wonwly Swizawin!" All of the Slytherins we've been introduced to in the book were lying, conniving, back-stabbing little...mean peoples. And remember in school that peer pressure plays a big part. I mean, the Houses were basically fraternities. If you didn't die in the battle, your brothahs would kill you when you got out. If you were a Slytherin at least lol.

[Obscure_Trash]

It's almost as if JKR wants to enforce the stereotype even more

That was one of the problems I have with the books. All the completely obvious stereotypes and complete enforcing of them. >_>

[LokyCokey]

I really like this series for the fact that it takes such a strong stance against stereotyping. In the books it's especially apparent that the heros are the nerdy unpopular kids in school. Neville is the best example of it.

And not all of the Slytherins are bad. The only reason Harry survives is because of Narcissa.

The real message to the story is that love prevails overall and people can become whomever they wish to be regardless of their background.

[spyro76]

There was something I didn't get in Book 7.

 

"Charlie Weasley was overtaking Horace Slughorn"

 

Did that mean Slughorn chickened and joined forces with Voldemort

I'm thinking it was because Charlie is a dragon trainer and most likely in great shape, whereas Slughorn is an old fat fart.

[Obscure_Trash]

I really like this series for the fact that it takes such a strong stance against stereotyping. In the books it's especially apparent that the heros are the nerdy unpopular kids in school. Neville is the best example of it.

And not all of the Slytherins are bad. The only reason Harry survives is because of Narcissa.

The real message to the story is that love prevails overall and people can become whomever they wish to be regardless of their background.

I kind of have to disagree with this.

 

The Gryffindor's were the cool, popular students and most all of them stayed to fight Voldie. Even younger kids that weren't supposed to (Creevy) stayed and even died. Most of the war hero's were Gryffindor's.

The Ravenclaw's were the nerdy kids in school and only about a handful of them stayed.

With the exception of Pettigrew, all the death eaters and bad wizards seemed to come out of Slytherin. Snape was the one real Slytherin hero and he was made into a dark hero, basically.

Narcissa's act wasn't one out of heroism or bravery, it was out of fear and love for Draco, it wasn't meant to suddenly show us Slytherin's are awesome people.

 

With all the blatant stereotyping in the whole HP series, I can't ever say it took a strong stance against it. :X

[Ruins]

Who is your favorite Weasley twin?

Eh... They're both funny. Can't tell 'em apart, to be honest...

Did you want Fred,Tonks,Lupin, and Mad-Eye to die?

NOOOOOO! And not the stupid deaths they got.

What house would you be in?

Slytherin, whoot! I get that in all the tests- I'm a backstabbing little liar!

Should've Kingsley stayed Minister of Magic PERMANENTLY?

Pffft... Couldn't care less, really.

What did you think of the Potter,Diggory,and Chang love triangle?

Again, I don't care.

Should Hagrid and Madame Maxime elope?

It would be funny, in a way. Think of the children, though! D:

Do you believe all of Harry's triumphs were bogus or assisted with?

Assisted. He needed those other people, otherwise he would have failed.

Who was your least like teacher?

Umbridge. Or Professor Binns.

When you heard about Snape's *love* did you feel sorry for him?

It was... okay. Kind of a cop-out, really. I liked him when he was EVIL.

When Dumbledore and Sirius died did you cry?

Yes... With rage. How pointless it all was...

Did you like how they portrayed the fifth movie?

*raspberry*

If you were Harry would you want to kill Cormac McLaggen after that horrific Quidditch match?

No. I don't do sport.

RonxLavender,,, Good or bad

Very, very bad.

RonxFleur...Good or Bad

The meaning of awful.

What is your favorite spell,charm,jinx,or curse?

One that makes CHOCOLATE. Or the Patronus.

What is your favorite magical subject?

Potions, oh yus.

How many times have you read the HP series?

Too many.

Would you make a Horcrux if a person asked you to kill them because they were dying?

Sure, why not?

If so what would you make it out of?

Oooh, tricky question... A gold ring. Then hide it in Russia.

[NixAyum]

Narcissa's act wasn't one out of heroism or bravery, it was out of fear and love for Draco, it wasn't meant to suddenly show us Slytherin's are awesome people.

 

With all the blatant stereotyping in the whole HP series, I can't ever say it took a strong stance against it. :X

I did like Narcissa betraying Moldybutt like that. I think it emphasizes the "love > all", the fact that Voldy had most of his followers only out of fear, and I think it actually was quite brave of her to go "SCREW YOU IMA MAMA BEAR! >u" right when he's pretty much at his most powerful/crazy.

[LokyCokey]

I kind of have to disagree with this.

 

The Gryffindor's were the cool, popular students and most all of them stayed to fight Voldie. Even younger kids that weren't supposed to (Creevy) stayed and even died. Most of the war hero's were Gryffindor's.

The Ravenclaw's were the nerdy kids in school and only about a handful of them stayed.

With the exception of Pettigrew, all the death eaters and bad wizards seemed to come out of Slytherin. Snape was the one real Slytherin hero and he was made into a dark hero, basically.

Narcissa's act wasn't one out of heroism or bravery, it was out of fear and love for Draco, it wasn't meant to suddenly show us Slytherin's are awesome people.

 

With all the blatant stereotyping in the whole HP series, I can't ever say it took a strong stance against it. :X

I kind of have to disagree with this.

 

The Gryffindor's were the cool, popular students.

 

I have to disagree with this too. Harry Potter and his friends were not meant to seem popular or cool.

Harry has unruly hair, glasses, and is constantly berated and made fun of.

Hermoine is a nerdy know it all with frizzy hair.

Ron is a lanky clumsy red head.

 

When you think of who these kids are in school they are not the cool popular people.

 

I would agree with the fact that the sorting hat creates stereotypes. The whole purpose of the hat is to fit people into the house that best matches their personality. So of course the Ravenclaws are smart and the Gryffindors are war heros. But Narcissa's act was most certainly heroic and brave. Do you think that lying to Voldemort doesn't require an immense amount of courage? If things had turned out differently there is no way that her or her family would have survived.

[dk_labyrinth]

I kind of have to disagree with this.

 

The Gryffindor's were the cool, popular students.

 

I have to disagree with this too. Harry Potter and his friends were not meant to seem popular or cool.

Harry has unruly hair, glasses, and is constantly berated and made fun of.

Hermoine is a nerdy know it all with frizzy hair.

Ron is a lanky clumsy red head.

 

When you think of who these kids are in school they are not the cool popular people.

 

I would agree with the fact that the sorting hat creates stereotypes. The whole purpose of the hat is to fit people into the house that best matches their personality. So of course the Ravenclaws are smart and the Gryffindors are war heros. But Narcissa's act was most certainly heroic and brave. Do you think that lying to Voldemort doesn't require an immense amount of courage? If things had turned out differently there is no way that her or her family would have survived.

I would say that you both are correct in a manner of speaking. The one thing everyone seems to overlook is how she actually did show that some people didn't fit the stereotype of their "house".

Examples:

Hufflepuff: Zacharias Smith (such a Slytherin)

Slytherin: Draco Malfoy (If you read between the lines and into what Draco is, he is NOT a Slytherin. He couldn't kill Dumbledore, he saved Harry and in the end was not that bad of a person.

Gryffindor: Pettigrew is obvious.

 

Many characters had traits that should have landed them in different houses. Hermione could have been a Ravenclaw with ease. Neville throughout the series could have been a Hufflepuff and even goes on to head that house. I never got the feeling throughout the series that the threesome (Harry/Ron/Hermione) were popular. The only time that JKR mentioned popular students they were Cedric Diggory and Cho Chang.

[spyro76]

Remember Dumbledore comments that perhaps they sort too early.

 

It's also important that Narcissa did not lie to Voldemort for bravery's sake. She did it for her own benefit. The book mentions that unless they were allowed to join the conquering party they wouldn't be able to check on Draco right away. She did it out of her own interests.

 

Remember that Harry essentially asked to be put in Gryfindor. Couldn't others do the same? Their better nature might have been partially ignored.

[Skypool]

I always wondered why voldemort didn't use legilimacy to see if Narcissa was lying to him

[NixAyum]

It's also important that Narcissa did not lie to Voldemort for bravery's sake.  She did it for her own benefit.  The book mentions that unless they were allowed to join the conquering party they wouldn't be able to check on Draco right away.  She did it out of her own interests.

Why can it not be both? Yes, she just wanted her son, but bravery isn't inherently virtuous. She still had to stand there and lie to Voldy, putting faith in Harry to not blow the cover, something every survival instinct and logical thought must have been fighting. I think it was very brave of her, obviously.

 

I always wondered why voldemort didn't use legilimacy to see if Narcissa was lying to him

 

Because he probably felt he didn't need it. By that point he was 1) power crazy 2) sure he'd killed Harry anyway (THIS TIME FER SURE GUIZE) 3) sure he had everyone around him cowed by fear to be totally honest 4) not thinking logically.

Edited October 20, 2010 by NixAyum

[kadoatie]

Using the legi.. (I can't remember its entire name) would have implied that Voldemort didn't trust his own abilities. I actually don't think there would have been any point in asking Narcissa to check, other than that it was a good plot device.

[darkangel787]

Yeah. I mean, Voldy was a prideful being and he would probably kill whoever lied to him, et cetera...and he wouldn't need to check anyways

[grrrowl]

 

Many characters had traits that should have landed them in different houses. Hermione could have been a Ravenclaw with ease. Neville throughout the series could have been a Hufflepuff and even goes on to head that house. I never got the feeling throughout the series that the threesome (Harry/Ron/Hermione) were popular. The only time that JKR mentioned popular students they were Cedric Diggory and Cho Chang.

What I find amusing about this is that I cannot believe, in the real world, that Harry (at least) would not be popular given what he's accomplished. That is of course up until the point where his name was ruined by the Ministry.

[Ruins]

*shrugs* Well, the Slytherins would probably still hate him; lots of their parents were Death Eaters, after all, and he- directly or indirectly- helped put their parents in prison. Also, they would be a lot more powerful if Voldemort was still in power- somaybe they could be bitter, knowing that?

Edited October 20, 2010 by Ruins

[NixAyum]

What I find amusing about this is that I cannot believe, in the real world, that Harry (at least) would not be popular given what he's accomplished. That is of course up until the point where his name was ruined by the Ministry.

That was done rather well, I think. He was fascinating to people, and not exactly the normal kind of popular. Students considered him somewhat unreal because holy crap he beat the most feared wizard in the last century when he was a BABY. A BABY. That was a really big deal to them, and nobody understood his mother's sacrifice and that he really didn't do anything. Who he had as his first two friends probably didn't help.

 

Plus, the people around Harry and Harry himself had a habit of getting into trouble/hurt a lot.

[Ruins]

And he can be a bit up himself sometimes.

[LokyCokey]

Do you have a favorite book in the series? Mine is Goblet of Fire. I've read it the most and it has some of my favorite scenes in all of HP.

[Nimrodel]

Do you have a favorite book in the series? Mine is Goblet of Fire. I've read it the most and it has some of my favorite scenes in all of HP.

If I absolutely have to choose a book, then perhaps I have to say the Prisoner of Azkaban. But really, it's a difficult choice for me. I am very fond of the series as a whole.

[Ruins]

I would choose either Azkaban or Order of the Phoenix.

[rubyshoes]

My favorite book of the series is the first one (HP and the Scorcerer's Stone)

Edited October 21, 2010 by rubyshoes

[ShaydraSilversky]

I liked Goblet of Fire as well. :3